The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
My divorce will be finalized next week. I am keeping the house. My question is how did others deal with the packing up and moving out process?
We have still been living in the same household, which has made this whole situation even harder. My soon to be ex has not been taking care of himself and just drinking himself to death it seems. He has been to the ER twice in the last 3 weeks, each time 2 IV bags. The quilting and berating are still an everyday thing.
Does anyone have advice on how to handle the weeks to come of him packing up his stuff and moving out? I think I may even have to initiate the process because he has not been wanting to do anything, not even his own laundry. Has anyone seen this as another escalating point in aggressiveness?
Thank you both.
He will be getting a house, but has not even started paperwork yet because he wants to wait till were officially divorced that way I have nothing to do with the house. In the divorce paperwork it states he has 30 days to move out.
The relapses are really bad, he had a seizure during the last one....that moment will be in my mind for awhile. But even during his worst when I was driving him to the ER, he said the only thing that could fix him is us not divorcing. Then snapped at me the next day for checking on him while I was at work....so yea. Not to mention the beer drinking the next day.
I think I will be the one initiating the packing, I just need him to be proactive in the house buying, if not, storage may be the next option. I am giving him a $45,000 buyout!
I am having trouble trying to find a sponsor who has experience in high functional alcoholics. I have a couple I think I might ask from this group, just trying to figure out how to go about it.
I wish I had some ESH for this. When my ex moved out, he took nothing. When I asked him to leave, he moved to the garage for a month. About a month or so before I asked him to leave, I took his keys to my office and hid them. When he asked me if I knew where they were, I said I hadn't seen them recently. This way I felt I wasn't lying, but also knew he couldn't come and go when I did ask him to leave.
He told me he didn't want anything. I packed his clothes for him when he finally landed at a place where I could bring his clothes. I still have pictures of his family and some other things packed away. Our children don't want them, but I can't throw them away.
All I can say is, take care of you. Focus on you and what is best for you. Only do what you are willing to do and won't lead to resentments.
Yours in recovery,
Salome (Sal-oh-may)
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"We are not punished for our unforgiveness, we are punished by it" Jim Stovall
I want to say I went through a lomg drawn out back and forth.with the ex qualifier. I.ended up.paying for him to.stay somewhere. He messed that up royally
Separating from him was as difficult as living with him
The core issue being some common issues
Therefore you should absolutely exoect your A to.ramp up.attempts to manipulate you. Urgency is a
big red flag in manipulation. They will put you in a place where you feel you have to rescue them. They are masters at manipulation. They are not accountable and not responsible.
You need more than your own teetering resolve to back you up
I would advise
1)Getting into therapy asap
2) Getting a social worker elderly services involved. If he us goimg in and out of the hospital the hospital social worker
should be able to.direct you. Perhaps he is going to.have to go to.a nursing home in the interim
3) Exploring the issue of moving his stuff to a storage unit . The storage unit being rented for a finite amount of time .
4) Does he have family. In my case the qualifier had an Uncle who.was immensely supportive to me. The qualifier ended up moving to.his area. I have no.doubt he was a tremendous burden on him. He had no.scruples about being a burden on oeople. He knew how to impose himself very well.
5).Expect whatever medical problems he has to worsen.
I do not know what resources you marshalled to get to this point. You.are very very resourceful to get there
Now you have to continue to be resourceful.
Al anon is a great program to have but in situations like yours you need a sponsor
I had a social.worker when i left the qualifier. I had no idea wgat forces he would unleash to.manipulate me. He went full out
He was and still is a master manipulator
I had to develop a game plan. Eventually I.recruited some unlikely allies. The effect on my.mental health wss draining echausting and a constant barrage of entitlement from the qualifuer. Given that for the prior year he had completely ignored me, scapegoated me and told me constantly.that I.was the problem this was more than confusing
They never exoect us to leave. They wil stop.at nothing to keep.ties and they will recruit others ruthlessly to their viewpoint
You have more than enough to contend with
You need a plan, resources, allies, therapeutic help and much much more.
Expect there to be a really vicious coordinated attempt to get you to change your mind. You will only be able to hold fast if you are : a) prepared, b)have back up and lastly c) have a way to sustain self care, rest and support through the coming onslaught
Normally I.would adopt the normal al anon issue not to advise
However I wish fervently people had prepared me for what I would face when I left the qualifier. I.endured a year of manipulation, harassment and a no holds barred attempt to prey on me and my empathy. I lost all sight of self preservation
We have long been cautioned to not give advise less we become responsible for the outcomes of how others respond. I don't want to be responsible for the successes and/or the failures of their attempts. I did as I was related to and the long drawn out outcomes were the results of what she did as an alcoholic/addict and I as a recovering member in the programs. Her successes were stunning and I maintain lessons from them. Her failures are not remembered or sought after to make me blameless. When we split up we hugged and kissed as out daughter laughed and cheered as if the home team won the big game. We came to love each other deeply (thank you Al-Anon and AA and HP) and I still do. We fought for each others recovery over time and I am still amazed that we put as much effort then as we put against staying sick. I just imagen that at one time I almost killed her and at another she begged me from the emergency room not to beat her again. She was drunk and high again and found by the police.
Everyday I thank my Higher Power and pray for others. ((((hugs))))
I apologize for being so direct about my #manipilation# issues with separating from my qualifier
I separated from my qualifier many years ago. Hindisight is 20/20.
.Personally I have to.say that since I.am 100% only responsibke for my life (and my dogs life) I did not cause anyone to drink, take drugs, get worse, get better, pursue their addiction. Even if and when I paid someone's bills. Or rather gave them a hotel room, bought them food, helped them in innumerable ways. At absolutely no time did I cause anyone to continue with their addiction. That was and still is absolutely 100% their choice every minute of the day.
At no time with all the addicts/alcoholics I have known (including ny own sister who I helped to move out of a bar where she was living when she was 16) I am not responsible in any way shape or form for any adult's or indeed anyone's addiction.
Whatever I did at whatever time the addict and alcoholic are aways 100% responsible for their addiction
I am most certainly 100% responsible for my own recovery at all times throughout my adult life. No one else is. Whoever I choose to assist me including my therapist are not responsible for the outcome of my issues
My own ESH with leaving the qualifier is that he upped his manipulation to the maximum level when I left him. Maximum effort on so many levels . He pulled out all the stops he used everything he had including our pets who he neglected terribly. I had no sponsor, no therapist and very little money therefore being around certainly caused me tremendous life long problems which took me decades to recover from. No one warned me of what I was dealing with. No suggesred his manipulation was at full on maximum level.
I have my own experiences being manipulative but no one I have ever encountered is as manipulative as some addicts and alcoholics I have encountered including numerous nembers of my family and many people, including the qualifier who has a gold star in manipulation at all times no matter what. That choice to manipulate others was 100% his choice all of the time. I did not give them a manual.
Hindsight is indeed 20/20. There are no manuals (except oerhaps Getting them Sober) to navigate separating from an alcoholic. My #suggestions# are not necessarily the way to navigate the way to negotiate that transition. Neither is my own unfortunate disastorous financially and emotionally devastating transition the absolute blue print for what will hapoen to others
There are however numerous online resources that can give a person a very clear idea what they are dealing with
Al anon is one of them but there are many many other resources out there.
Please accept my apologies for overstepping the line
Maresie
-- Edited by Maresie888 on Wednesday 18th of November 2020 01:56:51 PM
Hi Maresie888. Just read your sharings, and have to tell you, I feel you are being too hard on yourself, cut yourself some slack. Too me, you just shared your Experience, Strength and Hope.
What is the difference between, Advice? Suggestions, it can be tricky, for me Advice is telling someone that they should do this or that, and making them do it. I have always learnt in Alanon, if I want to say something, I am responsible for how/what I say, the other person is responsible for how they take it. That is where the responsibility ends, and I can take what I like and leave the rest.
Please Maresee, be Kind to yourself, and be proud of yourself for taking the courage to reach out and help another person to find recovery.
Thanjk you very much i was responding to another senir member reminding ne we do not give advuce
I.shoukd have written ny ESH rather than suggestions
Hindsight is indeed 20/20
I have been going through a lot of grief about manipulation issues.
Being aware is good but it.comes with a lot of pain and sorroe.
.i live in an irban area where addiction is very apparent. Therefore every.day I am confronted by the stark reality of where addiction takes some people.
I am also, of course, somewhat affected by that reality every day of the week while that affect is very different from living with an slcoholic sddict in my home I am nevertheless affected by it daily
Dealing with the pandemic, my own ill health, my own PTSD, my own missing my dog is very trying. Some days it is more overwhelming than others. Without al anon I am not sure what I would do.
Thank you all for your responses!! Its exactly what I need at this stage in my divorce. He actually seized again a few hours after my posts and again I was there to help him through it and make sure he came out of it ok. Made sure he was out of the confusion stage afterwards, got him hydrated from his earlier vomiting and other stuff before getting myself into bed but of course I didn't sleep incase I heard him seize again, he sleeps in the guest room.
This time it took 2 days before going back to his typical manipulation self. But I am who I am...I am a Defender personality who cares for people. I would not even let my worst enemy seize alone if I'm there. But buying soups, Gatorades and BRAT foods is something I know I'm enabling...that I think is a grey area becuase he is too weak to get those items at that even though he is putting himself in that situation.
But I'm realizing what I'm doing and am now on Step 4 of writing my morale inventory. Trying to be stronger but it's really hard when they are still under the same roof. Thank goodness for these message boards. Again...thank you everyone for taking time to respond to me.
(((Kokopelli))) - you're doing fantastic....there is no right/wrong way to 'do recovery' esp. when we are living with active disease. I no longer spend too much time wondering if I am enabling vs. being of service in many instances. I ask myself if I would be doing different if this were another, consider the answer & facts and then just go. If my A had the flu, and needed hydration items purchased, I'd do so. Alcoholism is a disease, and if my A needs/ed hydration items purchased and I can assist or be of service without losing myself, I'm going to do so.
My experience is that it does get easier to establish healthy boundaries and adhere to them when they are no longer living in the same home. 'Loving others from across the street or town' has served me really well in letting go, letting God and keeping my focus on me and my growth. You're almost there - one day at a time, I believe you'll get through this and the next chapter will begin! Keep doing what you're doing and keep leaning into your program and the process! It's looking good on you!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Hi Maresee 888, I hope you are feeling better in with yourself today. I can relate to what you are saying, as I have 2 Grand Children who are in trouble and I can't help them, except Pray, for them. They are always in my thoughts, wondering how they are doing, where they are. My eldest Grand Son has Drug/Alcohol addictions, my youngest Grand Daughter was in a horrific car accident and is very lucky to be alive. She has multiple injuries, and is only 16. Because I am estranged from her Father, my son, and her mother, I was not told of her accident, only by someone else. I had to search for any information I could get to see how she was doing. I still am not being told anything, I have asked, pleaded, get nothing from my son.
With my Grand Son, because I have been in Alanon for a long time, and listened to many people sharing about their both addictions, I am in reality, not denial. The thought is always there of the phone call, telling me of the bad news. I love and care for him so much as I do for my Grand Daughter, would just love to tell them both, I love them, and want to give them a hug. I can't, so I know first hand of how you are feeling. You are doing the very best that you can, facing reality isn't easy. I too feel surrounded by all of it.
When I came into early Alanon, someone showed me the books Getting Them Sober. A lot of the Alanon members had them, but we kept them separate from the meetings. I have heard them spoken about on this program. At that time, I was very confused, trying to work and understand the Alanon program, but when I started reading those books, as well, my recovery took off. I learnt both from Alanon, and the books, of what I was dealing with, and why the Alcoholic I had in my life was doing what he was doing. I learnt about the Disease of Alcoholism, but for me I needed direction, to be shown, what to do, why, and how to do it. Everyone is different, at a different stage in their recovery. At that time I was on the verge of another Emotional Breakdown, with Alanon and those books, I didn't have one. Which I am extremely grateful.
You are doing great, under extreme pressure, with all that you are dealing with. Be Kind to Yourself, you are a wonderful, caring person, don't ever stop being you.
I struggle a lot with caring for others. One of ky neighbors down the hall is very ill. He is on his last legs. Given the way he neglects himself it is a miracle he has lasted this long
However I have my own issues to deal with. My plate is full
I.am no longer in a place where I put others before myself
It is a very hard line to hold
Very very difficult
Putting ourselves first is so key and so extremely diffcult to do.
My neighbor down the hall is not someone I owe anything to.
I owe myself more these days. Moreover his illness is nothing Inhave anything to do with
My time of feeling I owe everyone is over. Very much over.
I do not know where this line of resonsibilith gets blurred in alcoholism.recovery. At no time did I ever give anyone drugs and make them take them. In addition there was no time I make anyone drink anything. I grew up with a sister who became an alcoholic at an early age. At one time I went abd found her. I have no idea how I found her except I recalled which bars she went to. Then I went to.visit her and persuaded her to come home because her health was going downhill.
I would never do anything like that now. I felt responsible for her for years
My sister is still an alcoholic. I have nothing to.do with her choices. Personally I do not believe I #enabled# anyone. Some people do indeed recover who knows what gets them there there is no surefire formula. .
I absolutely refuse to take any measure of responsibiliy anymore for someone's alcoholism. I am no way out there with a stick insisting I had anything to do with it
Remember the three C's. I cannot control it, I didn't cause it and I.most certainly cannot cure it
Therefore if I gave someone money, was kind to them, gave them a tent, gave them a meal I still had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with their addiction. Nothing at all. Neither do I have any obligation to help them if I cannot do it
Moreover for me there are certain people that have crossed so many lines with me that helping them is not a possibility for me
Guilt can kill us. I have been very angry at my neighbor down the hall. Being angry at him is perfectly acceptable for me today. I can be angry at him as long as I want to.
My anger has nothing to do with his being sick
I do not have to feel anymore I have to put everything aside to tale care of others. That need to save others came from my childhood where I needed to try to control the chaos around me.
I no longer need to be out there saving anyone but myself but there was nothing wrong with my being kind to other people.
Neither is there nothing wrong with my being angry at others. I do not act on my feelings so it is perfectly safe for me to be angry. My feelings are not going to hurt anyone because I do not act on them. If someone I know chooses to neglect themselves like my former roommate I can acknowledge that reality. It is no longer my obligation to save them from themselves.
Moreover the only person I have responsibiliy for is myself. Taking that responsibility on is very hard. This year I nearly dropped dead from working so much and neglecting myself. When I was very ill, really really sick, the former roommate chose that opportunity to attack me verbally and tell me the only thing that was wrong with me was that I was stupid.
He will never get the opportunity to do that again and I have nothing to do with his choice to attack me so viciously.
After he attacked me verbally I still went to work all night at a job where they didnt let up the pressure for one minute. At that place they didnt let up on the wholesale dumping for one minute of their mantra #do more more every second# . There was no chance to say I do not feel well can I take a break. That would be a heinous crime.
Being bullied was my way of life. Changing that dues not happen overnight. Saying no was not a possibility at all
Now there is a possibility to say No
Saying No is not something that comes to.some of us easily.
I almost died from overwork so many times. One job I had cslled me on the phone non stop for hours when I was hospitalized with asthma. I was on oxygen and had electrodes on my chest monitoring that my heart would not go into a dangerous rhythm. They were calling me starting at 5:00 am to go over some details. I thought I was being a good employee going over the details. Now I simply would not answer the phone. Too bad you can deal with the meeting without ne. Bing so indisoensable they needed to talk to me while I took my last breath did not give me a pass to not be laid off.
For some of us we have to be at the point of death to stop beating ourselves over the head with a stick. Certainly that is the case for me. This year I almost died again from over work and neglect. I keot telling myself I just needed to try harder
It is pretty important for me to learn to say no before I get to the brink.of death again.
Maresie,
First thank you for sharing your rough journey, I appreciate you and all the hard work you have and are accomplishing.
We have similar stories and I cannot agree more on how hard it is to say "no"! Getting angry at someone is also something that does not come easily, but I know I need it at times just to help me say no or stop trying to help "too" much.
I feel the quiet before the storm is coming soon again and your words will be here for me to reflect back on and remind me others are just as strong and I can be too!!
Thank you everyone for your posts....alanon is just simply amazing and an outstanding support family!
The qualifier had a horrible rare diseass. Then he had snother lifw threatening illness on top of that. When I helped him with a place it was right out in the middle of nowhere. Away from all the freeloaders. I would go over on the weekend and buy groceries. Getring there took forever and I had alresdy been uo since 5:00 am
His needs always tok priority. He was always there with his hand out. He eefused to helo me so many times orior to this illness. He had no problm saying No. I took money fromma credit card to helo him. He very rarely came through for me if I was broke
Whatever he has to touch my empathy he used it to the max
The qualifier got better on his own. He moved to another area if the state. I did not hear from him for years
Then he popped up this yesr out if nowhere. I did not resume contact.
I felt 100%responsible for me. He swallowed thar empathy and caring whole. By thaf time I had assumed caring for all our pets.
His illness did not stop him from getting door. His illness did not stop him from bingeing
I was there to #make sure# up until exhaustion
Now I am not #there# in the sane way for others. I am sure ny neughbir down the hall is ill. He has people around
The peoole I am there for are oeople who are there for me.
I still talk to my former roommate my dog is staying there still. I never ask him he is. I never ask him what he is doing.
That ship sailed when he viciously verbally attacked me when I was really ill.
I prided myself on caring for others so diligently.
Now I have to find other sources of oride. Caring for others wioed me out literally figuratively and ohysically
