Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Clarifying - for Bo - Continued Dialogue for Cross-Talk, Quoting, Courtesy

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

WOW!!! Lots of stuff here....

Iamhere, I think you are doing a great job doing YOUR job and also holding up for our Betty whom I miss with all my heart....You and Freetime are keeping this board active and busy and safe...

I believe I saw an apology from Bo to Maresie but can't find it here..But there again, lots of stuff to "pour through" and I hope that the ones who are not posting come back and post and I hope that this board stays active with nobody leaving..I get great ESH here and try to give same...

I, for one, NEED this board and I shall continue to post

I would also like to cast my vote that you, IAH, STAY here..Also Freetime, I hope YOU stay as well.....There are lots of people with different issues and I see you both on here daily, giving most posts from members a bit of encouragement....

I did have my "gee should I go or stay" when Betty passed on, but I decided to "hang out" and see how this goes and I think you two are doing a hell of a job keeping the ship running straight...

Jill · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you forever to our administrator(s). Forever!

I cherish the safety here. It is my lifesaver.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

I had no idea we are down to do few monitors at the moment. You are both doing an amazing job and I certainly appreciate you and the efforts you put in. Thank you for keeping this a safe space. Hugs S :)

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

...following... ...DavidG.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

...hmm... just to clarify... I don't recall seeing Hidden around for a while.

is Hidden still here... ???

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

good Question, David...now that you mention it, I hope Hidden is OK...

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

Iamhere --

It is quite obvious to me that, one, you are not being fair. Two, you are posturing and deflecting away from the specific issue I was looking to address. Three, you've made it personal, both in the past, and presently. Thus, I have zero interest in engaging with you on this issue or any related issue.

That said, based upon your portrayal, I will say the below and I will be done with this back and forth.

First, I was only looking to resolve your claim vs. my claim. Why? Because that was the only issue I found up for discussion? Why? Because, I apologized in my post. That issue was done in my mind. However, now, shockingly, that apology is not there! I posted it. I saw it. I read it. And, another member here saw it and PM'ed me that they saw it as well. And, now just that line -- is now gone. Let me be clear, my apology has been deleted from my post. When I edit a post -- the resulting post notes that the post has been edited. Someone edited my post -- specifically deleted my apology in my post! I find this very disturbing and a complete lack of fairness and integrity.

Second, while you can stand by your "share" that I have been asked repeatedly via PM to stop quoting and cross-talk -- when I offered to settle that dispute with facts -- you declined. I understand your position and why. That's fine. I stand by my claim and my truth that your statement is absolutely false. I have no problem posting my entire history of PM's. Apparently you do. So, we can agree to disagree.

Third, I apologized for my post -- although it is no longer there -- so I do not see why it requires further discussion and regurgitating. Taking this to another point in time, another level, is nothing more than making this personal, and it is just that, personal.

All of the other things you said you would NOT do -- I didn't ask you to do any of them. I see no reason why you feel the need to tell me what you are not going to do when I didn't ask. I won't speak to any of that.

In closing, proceeding with any request, formally, today, and moving forward, is fine. It is moot, but fine.

I wish you all the best.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

This reminds me of how I used to get upset and argue on this board.

Bo - I don't know you but have been checking in and reading the boards from time to time. You share a lot and a lengthy amount. The way you share reminds me of myself and it is with a lot of knowledge and passion. When folks told me I was coming on too strong, I would get brutally offended and respond with a pattern of arguing that made females here feel like I was acting just like their qualifier (I know this in retrospect). Most of the folks here that have been on the board will respond that they remember this drama lol. I even got banned from the AA board after moderating it for years because I got so upset arguing with 1 particular person. I can't believe i handed over my serenity for any of it at that time. The online medium seems to lead to more of this than would happen in person but I've seen plenty of discord in live AA and Alanon in person as well. Why? Well....we don't go to meetings cuz we are all super healthy.

It is all to easy to get roped into back and forth debates and arguing in a place where you come to share vulnerably to begin with. My suggestion is a giant QTIP on all sides. I argued with an old Moderator "Deb" here and it was really JUST LIKE THIS. In retrospect, I regret the entire thing as she had her own issues playing out and all I did was feed into it and wound up bringing John into who of course "sided" with her and that played out real ugly and almost destroyed the entire forum for me which had been part of my recovery since I had like 60 days sober in AA (hence the name Pinkchip as that is the color of the chip you get at meetings at 60 days). I even got in a big stupid argument with Jerry one time and that is like the most peaceful dude on the planet lol. Everyone here is just sharing and trying to get better from being sick. None of us are well or experts. You'd think I would have learned after getting my feathers all ruffled the first few hundred times. John was not immune to this either and several people left the board after feeling "shut down" by him and so on and so forth. He was just another sickie like all of us.

Trudge on and love one another :) That's my take.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

hmm I get scared here. Not scared like it was in my FOO.

In the USA people can get sacked- and become forced to live on the street and die. That is a fact of life.

The admins here, also can ban someone- lost but not forgotten. But lost forever.

I don't live in the USA- and I am accustomed to a slightly better deal.

There are mostly likely conscience issues here. How we deal with the cross-talk guidelines.

Another was raised yesterday, by a different person, on the Business Board.

Long tem... I think the business board is the place to update our rules and guidelines. I was trained early in the steps, traditions, concepts and warranties of service.

I think I understand how this works.

It might be easier to deal with a simple routine matter first- to see what happens... first things first.

DavidG

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

PS IAm...

I happen to know what your first name is. This came out when Betty passed away.

But, for me, here... ...you are still IAm... and you should remain so... so long as you wish. Your call.

DavidG.

Adding an edit to show all edits create footnotes.

-- Edited by Iamhere on Monday 20th of July 2020 06:34:52 PM

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Bo -- no member or moderator can edit any post without a footnote made by the system. The only way for a post to be changed is for it to be removed by the original member and re-entered. Every single post that goes through an 'edit' has that footnote.

I am as cautious about security on the internet as I am my privacy and if this software/site allowed ANYONE to post as me, for me, etc. I wouldn't be here. I'll demonstrate in my post here and in David's post above to provide calm to anyone who may have concerns that random 'others' can edit a post.

Here is the edit I made after the post was formally submitted.

My second edit - the person who deserves the apology and should see it is Marasie. Not you, me or another but the person who started the discussion that went sideways.

-- Edited by Iamhere on Monday 20th of July 2020 06:34:12 PM

-- Edited by Iamhere on Monday 20th of July 2020 06:36:22 PM

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear Bo:

Pink chip could NOT have said this better in his post....I remember when I first came here..."loaded for bear" wanting to heal, like RIGHT NOW, and yea, after i had a few months recovery under my belt, I was the "expert" I had and DO have a heart full of sincerity, honesty, compassion and passion for the program...and I had so MUCH passion, it spilled over in my posts...I did not use "I" statements or keep the focus on me....I meant well, as I know you do, but my posts came out as a bludgeon rather than a soft place to land and get some ESH.....I told people what to do...and I, too, had some ugly encounters with others here and I got suspended and dearest Betty who knew my heart better than most, would take me under her wing and get me back on the board with a loving ass chewing about my mistake...She guided me and helped me and I am what I am NOW, thanks, in large part to our dear Betty....

I have to keep reminding myself that there are newbies here...fragile, frightened, confused and one bad or scary experience here, even tho it comes from a good heart, could scare them away....So I learned how to channel my passion for the program in better, kinder, more lovingly detached ways....I was so Coda, I had to fix everyone!!! now I keep that in check and IF I step out of line/misstep, I am grateful that we have people here who can gently bring me back within the guard rails of sanity.....I remember how John wold "bust me" BIG time for my errors, but he also said he loved me and I was a "keeper" because I do my best to work an honest program, even if I was a pushy broad back then....I always had to be right...Now I just want to be happy and do good service to my HP and this board...

Your sincerity is greately appreciated and it is not a sin to be "brought up" on mistakes, missteps, like Pinkchip said "QTIP" it aint about anything but good orderly direction and doing our BEST to ALL work a safe and loving program...

I do NOT feel less then because program softened my approach...I am still feisty, I take no S**t from anyone, but my delivery is a hell of a lot better..Thanks to our dear Betty and MIP and my other goodliest fellow travelers....

JUST my 2 cents worth

tiredtonite · Veteran Member

Hi Everyone,

Thanks moderators and to all who come to share at this board. Everyone aids my recovery and I'm grateful. I also hope I to be offering only support and recovery when posting to others who come here especially the newcomer. None of us are perfect people. Who would want to be, that would leave nothing to learn.

Bo, I want to address you since all of this has come up. I have not reported you to anyone but I was uncomfortable with having my ENTIRE post copied and pasted by into your response to a post here. Whatever your motivation, I am not judging you for doing that, just asking you to not do that in the future. Thank you.

Pinkchip, it's great to see you again. You've been missed here and your points are well taken and appreciated. Yes, John himself could be a bear to deal with at times and a real pussycat at other times. He was very invested in seeing this site continue and I feel blessed to still be able to come here so many years since it's creation. I miss him here as I do many others who are no longer here Betty in particular who gave so much of herself to this site. I think many have been trying hard to be of serve since we lost her which to me means we love and value MIP and want to see it continue for many years to come.

"The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level."

I found when the above statement was added to this board particulary the second sentence, the shares began to change greatly from an Alanon focus and Alanon principles. I suppose I would have preferred that it read "It is a method to share Alanon information, offer Alanon support, and practice the principles of the Alanon program." This doesn't need to be a WSO Alanon site for those of us here to share the Alanon program.

I have been here since a year after John created this site. I'm not saying this to you to give myself some sort of "special" credibility. I say it because I want to convey how much MIP has meant to me and my recovery. I was first a newcomer to the chatroom, six months later a chatroom chairperson and moderator and then came to this board. At one point, John asked us in a chatroom business meeting if we wanted to become World Service Organization approved. We voted no. By discussion in that business meeting, the general consensus was that members were practicing the Alanon program at MIP, things were working so why complicate matters.

As far as the Alanon message board, I believe I can say with confidence that John would not have divided this site into various 12 step program boards had he not intended visitors to receive loving support and information related those specific programs. He was a frequent visitor to the Alanon chatroom for meetings and at chat time and consistently offered unconditional love and support to newcomers and oldtimers alike. No matter his years in the program, he still saw himself as a work in progress and teachable.

Stubborn as a mule at times when he got something into his head but also able to be vulnerable and admit his shortcomings understandng that he wasn't "cured." He he liked to say of himself, "You can take the rum out of fruitcake but you still have a fruitcake."

I, too want to remain teachable by my hp and this fellowship. My own recovery is my greatest reason for coming here. I know I don't have all the answers for myself so I certainly don't have them for anyone else. I do hope something I share is of help to another but IAlanon speaks about attraction not promotion of my way. I'd like to add that I've always felt we're family here, can reason anything out, remain loving and supportive of one another resolving any issues as they come up. Thanks for letting me share my two cents worth. ((everyone))) TT

Al-Anon has but one purpose: to help families of alcoholics. We do this by practicing the Twelve Steps, by welcoming and giving comfort to families of alcoholics, and by giving understanding and encouragement to the alcoholic.

-- Edited by tiredtonite on Monday 20th of July 2020 08:37:10 PM

Maresie888 · ~*Service Worker*~

Actually in regards to this issue. No apology is or was needed or requested by me. I am and was perfectly capable of stating what is#my business# or rather my side of the street I am the one who decides on my recovery. I am also most certainly the one who decides what is and isnt my business. No one else does no matter how they rate themselves in the program. What I can do about #my business# is another matter. Of course I would am not lookimg for a resolution but moreover a way to navigate through complex issues. My neighbor likely having covid is of course my business. The current recommendation is not to be within 6 feet of someone who may be infected. He lives down the hall from me. I spoke to him ourside so that lessens my risk. That is generally where I soeaj to people. That oractuce will now end Nevertheless I would remind you my neighbor is still hospitalized almost 6/7 weeks after he was taken in as an emergency. He is and was very seriously ill. The issue was and is not about his #rash# which it was trivialized down to I am in a place where I can get tested on a regular basis. That will take all the guess work about being exposed. Nevertheless I most certainly do need to be far more vigilant about social distancing In regards to ny neighbors smoking. I.most certainly am allergic. I took some steps to deal with that i got nowhere. So I tried ti get a rule enforced. I dont see that as a huge issue. I stopped trying after that. Is that a reason to be pillored for tryng to enforce something. I do not think s I went straight to the horses mouth and asked the dept of public health to enforce. The group spend all their time bringing in new rules about tobacco. Then they choose not to enforce any of them. I choose not to belong to that group at this time. I do not see them changing their position anytime soon. I live in a place where lots of rules are selectively enforced. There is not much I can do about that either but I most certainly can acknowledge it as a reas ok n to be frustrated. I most certainly appreciate that other people have ideas about where boundaries are. At the same time I am no longer in a place where I.give or even consider giving people #grades# on their recovery. I do not believe that is productive or even necessary. . If someone believes that their recovery is great. Good for them. However no one should be imposing what they believe is the #right# way on anyone. I most certainly have a complicated life. Nevertheless my life is far far better than it was in the past. I have no guarantee it will.stay that way. Everyday I entertain and navigate through issues relating to a pandemic. We have no manual on how to do that. None of us have a guarantee on what tomorrow will bring. At the same time I ansolutely do not believe that anyone can impose on me what side of the street I.am on at any one time. While I most certainly was judgmental and opinionated and felt I had #advanced# recovery now i do not feel that way. I most certainly do not impose my #recovery# on anyone I.most certainly can understand people who do have that idea hecause after all I was one of them A board is much different from a meetimg room. There is also a chance since we are writing and reviewing to be tactful. Tact is not something we often see in 12 step programs. I believe it is a good issue to look at and consider While I most certainly had a difficult year I have managed to navigate many issues. At this juncture in the year I feel like I am going to rise above some of these difficult transitions. I am grateful to be there. Maresie

Enigmatic · ~*Service Worker*~

Here are a few thoughts on this matter:

Below is a comment I first made to you, Bo, after observing some of your comments; I stand by it. In the following months and years, I have commented directly to you about the distasteful way I felt you commented to others, particularly new members.

The fact that this is not an official AlAnon site should not keep you from observing the concepts and principals as you have by your own admission years in the program.

The continued telling others what to do, not do, what they should feel or not feel, and finally the stubborn refusal to consider what a valued member and moderator, Iamhere, has asked you to do is distasteful and does not reflect the spirit of AlAnon or this board. The claim that Iamhere is unfair is completely unfounded.

6/18/17
Hi Bo, my name is Paul, grateful member of AlAnon and this board. I havent spoken with you directly but appreciate your obvious knowledge of the program and experience in dealing with the affects of the disease.

One of the things that led me to the program is that my desire to help others often took the form of giving direction and feeling that I knew what others should be doing and needed to do in order to improve their circumstances. I often felt it was my duty and obligation because they didnt seem to see it for themselves.

AlAnon helps me see that is not my duty or my right, and when I try to direct others I am taking over gods responsibility. With the wisdom and guidance of the program I am making progress in this area and keeping more focus on my story and what I need to do to improve my situation; less directing others and more focus on minding me, less criticism, more support.

I still wrestle mightily with this area when dealing with others, including on this board. The program readings under the topic Advice were of great help to me, particularly these pages ODAT: 57, 221, 256, 306, 331, and C2C: 6, 106. Using the phrase take what you like and leave the rest does not absolve me of my responsibility to show others, especially new members, the respect they deserve by not telling them what they should be doing.

With your experience in the program, I am certain these are not new to you. I find, however, that no matter how many times Ive read program material I always come away with a new point or perspective when I give it a fresh read.

Hope you are having a great weekend and a Happy Fathers Day if it applies! Grateful for your willingness to share and help others with your experience, strength and hope

SunnyFrogs · Senior Member

Yikes!

I'm not sure what's going on here but it's definitely not a good thing to see first when coming back for a visit.

I personally think all of this is horrible and childish and inappropriate.

Shouldn't stuff like this happen behind the scenes instead of out in the open like this?

I came here to reach out for help and support today but obviously I need to look elsewhere.

I thought about not saying anything at all and not responding but come on,this is ridiculous.

Whatever happened to take what you like and leave the rest?

PosiesandPuppies · ~*Service Worker*~

Firstly, I appreciate all who provide service to this forum, as it wouldn't exist without your dedication!

My question is regarding quoting. I went back and read the Sticky about posting/newcomers. I didn't read anywhere that you cannot quote someone else's post. I looked, b/c I have done this (to clarify what I want to convey), and I want to make sure that I am not breaking a rule. In fact, each post does have a "Quote" button available for anyone to use.

I think that tiredtonight addressed this well with Bo in the post above.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

PnP - the quoting function is a part of the software - comes with the tools selected for the forum/discussion board. It's not in the formal rules and rarely happens. It becomes 'uncomfortable' for some members when it's done and then direction or advice follows. I

All - John & Betty desired greatly to have as few rules as possible to ensure any/all who needed support and help felt safe to post and share. The rules are not 'formal' in nature, more like intended guidelines. There's been much discussion over more formal direction here over the years and the consensus at that time was to not fix what isn't broken.

If members believe more formal rules/guidelines are desired, it certainly can be raised on the business side of the forum.

I do agree that this discussion is not the most welcoming. It would be preferred to always handle issues privately, however this has yielded some good comments, feedback and clarification. When private does not work, we as a group with all members included can be part of the solution. Participation is always optional.

I will be closing this thread tomorrow morning. It was not my intent to 'air dirty laundry' but instead to clarify as requested by Bo in another's discussion on an unrelated topic.

SunnyFrogs · Senior Member

Omg. I doubt I will be ever logging in again. This entire thread is just so ridiculous.We have members complaining about being quoted while at the same time I'm seeing members being quoted.

I'm seeing a member being publicly flogged,a member that has really helped me with their wisdom. Not everyone likes to be pitied and coddled.Some members appreciate the BS being put aside and being told things in a straight forward way. It's wrong to try to monitor and control how one member does things.

I had a run in with a member when I first started posting. We worked it out privately. I didn't like their approach,didn't like how harsh they were but I learned very quickly to take what I like and leave the rest.

This is such an unhealthy dysfunctional place. If I want this kind of chaos and drama I can save myself time by just engaging in the BS going on in my own personal life.

I'm pretty upset about all of this. I keep coming back and giving this place a chance but it seems to be the same BS over and over.

The world is a sh***y place anymore,so much anger,hatred,division,etc.This should be a safe place to go where none of that is happening.

Good God ppl,wtf?

Edited for language.

-- Edited by Iamhere on Tuesday 21st of July 2020 10:59:20 AM

JerryF · ~*Service Worker*~

((((Hugs Family))))

I woke up this morning into my usual routine which is read the page of the day from our literature while voicing my prayer with my Higher Power, Akua O` ka Lani (God of Heaven) and finding Akua's direction to the page of the day in our One Day at a Time reader (ODAT) It was suggested to me by HP that HP knows our recovery path and how best to walk it.

Have you read it yet? Have you read it in light of yesterdays discussions? It is the light held over my path as my elder sponsor once told me.

Mahalo to my Al-Anon Family for allowing me to grow and to go face to face with my Higher Power. (((((hugs)))))

Bettertomorrow · Senior Member

I am grateful for the people who moderate on here and take time to respond to people's posts. As a newcomer and now through to being a 'fledgling' (I still feel like a relative newcomer!) I have always felt welcomed and supported.

I am also personally grateful for what I view to be a diverse range of responses and ways of responding - I personally have gained so much experience, support and hope from all the members who have ever replied to my posts and also what I get from reading other's posts and stories.

I now understand about the requirement not to quote - but can also see the confusion where there is a button to quote.

I have never personally felt like anyone was judging me or giving me advice, but I now feel confused about the difference between sharing my experience and it being seen as advice and it has made me now think twice about responding to other people's posts myself, so that is something I need to reflect on.

This forum and its multitude of members have been and is a continuing lifeline of support for me and I thank all of you, its members, for being there.

tiredtonite · Veteran Member

Agree pnp, I also at times will reference a line or few lines when responding to a poster in order to give clarity to a point. I haven't used the quote function at this site. In fact, in honesty it's not occurred to me nor do I know how it works. I have put the few sentences in quotation marks and italics. I see many people referencing the words of the person whose begun a thread in order to better explain their point when responding. Additionally, when I begin a thread and someone responds and quotes a few lines from my original post in their response to me, I have no objection. To me, these examples of quoting are vastly different from hijacking a person's entire response to a poster by putting their entire share in your response to the poster. I consider my share in it's entirety to be my voice just as if I were sharing at a face to face Alanon meeting. I have never experienced or would I ever imagine anyone at my face to face Alanon meetings repeating my entire share before sharing their own experience, strength and hope. That would be really bizarre and it feels equally bizarre to me to have it happen here. TT

-- Edited by tiredtonite on Tuesday 21st of July 2020 12:10:29 PM

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

smile

Maybe there are 8 or 10 of us here- who feel like we are sharing Betty's shoes, and

Betty's wisdom. Could be 16 or 18...?

We can shuffle around together- and put all of this together- over time...

and maybe even add some.

This is a lovely group, with wonderful people! smile

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

((((((((((Recovery family)))))))))))))))

I for one am truly grateful for this awesome board and the moderators show up every day to not only post but to help out with keeping the place safe

That said, i've never minded my "stuff" being quoted when someone wants to help me and reference certain points of my post

what I WOULD take exception to would be shaming, blaming, belittling or someone working my inventory....I have NOT SEEN that HERE!!!! EVERYONE who is loving and kind enough to respond to me, I have truly enjoyed their responses and I am grateful that they care enough to validate my existence

AND with things so screwed up in this world with the Covid and the financial fall out this is going to and IS causing, nerves are frayed...People, including myself are very very concerned..not just about getting sick, but will I have enough work to sustain me when this all hits the fan , financially??? so yea, nerves are on edge

NOW is the time we NEED each others love and support and patience!!! We need to STICK TOGETHER, and support each other.......with HP's help and our mutual love and support, we CAN get through this disaster

Just my 2 cents worth.....

iris52 · Member

While I have just recently returned to this board,I used to be a regular.Anyone remember when someone could get slapped with a fish in the meetings? It may have been after the meeting,but it was hilarious. TT?

Anyway, first let me say that I love this board and this group.There is so much recovery here. Even when I wasn't working the program,I came here for ESH (just reading,not posting) and it was always helpful. I kinda feel like sunnyfrog, although I won't be leaving the board no matter how this goes. I do feel that this should have been handled privately.I think that leaders should lead as they see fit and not apologize for that but I never liked bosses who chose to reprimand me in front of all my coworkers.

Not sure about the rest of you but I will admit that I like some of the posters on here but not all of them.Some can rub me the wrong way and I do not bring up their posts when I see them.Others I look for them to post and eagerly read what they say.I think that is just human nature. IAH is one that I always read. Alot of recovery there.Also, I like Bo and I look forward to reading his responses to my posts. He is a 'tell it like it is' kinda guy.I think someone else here said that they needed someone like that to sort of wake them up and it helped them on the road to recovery.Sometimes I need that cold fish in the face!

These days too many people are offended by so many things.We say take what you like and leave the rest.That is good advice whether you are in recovery or not.

People used to say "it takes all kinds to make a world".And thank God it does.

love you all, Iris

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

smile TO ACCEPT THE THINGS WE CANNOT CHANGE...

We face difficult, and sometimes impossible odds.

We have all faced terror sometimes- much more than fear.

We have faced rage sometimes- much more than anger.

And joy too- from time to time. Looked hard for hope.

Bill and Lois W. had to face the 1929 economic panic. And they weathered it okay.

Even after the Covid-19 pandemic, many people are predicting difficult economic consequences.

In a way, in Alanon we are already inoculated against this invisible enemy.

We have already been there, lots of us. hmm ...

In the face of these changes we might expect a lot of stuff- which we all might experience.

Which will affect our day to day life- and over which we have no control.

Well, only a little anyway.

Here again we must continue to close ranks, and carry on, somehow.

aww ...

2HP · Senior Member

I can share that to date, I have yet to experience growth without "discomfort," this is just how we learn. From the very beginning, I was told the fellowship provides an opportunity to practice these al-anon principles. I do not believe we were ever meant to find an escape from earth school (except in meditation.)

My sponsor says, "in every good person there is some bad, and in every bad person there is some good." True of every one of us.

This thread is loaded with multiple issues. Personally I am sad the PM feature has enabled this bullying thread. Gossip is an "obstacle to success." I wish the PM feature would be removed for not being a support." As long as it is available, this will never be a "safe" site. If we are truly open to learning together, let's bring everything to the table, out in the open like F2F groups. we are only as sick as our secrets.

And should we have the expectation that everyone must be gentle? what if their personality is not? My recovery has been a mixed bag, with many different personalities for which I am grateful. God is everything. when principles were at stake, I have been shown harshness. Let's not assume we know what is right for everyone, let's be clear what is our business and what is God's. Even if someone happens to run and disappear for a time, who among us hasn't?! we find our way back, thanks to HP, the perfect Manager.

Let go and Let God work through personal ESH, this is how Al-anon works. Let's be careful about assuming we should look alike, think alike, talk alike.. if we go down that road, Al-anon would get (and deserve) a reputation for being a "cult." Let's not contribute to that.

Finally, my sponsor taught me never assume one person is necessary for anyone's recovery. Higher power is vast. In al-anon we learn that all have value. The al-anon guideline of rotating leadership helps everyone, for all involved. I am grateful to all who serve, who have served, and I am grateful for the many capable members who are yet to serve.

The service work of MIP founders is also appreciated, service to the HP, above all. They should not be brought into this, dragged into earth's muck when they have been given their freedom, please let them rest in peace. This is "our lesson" to grow and learn from, those currently present. No one should assume they know what might be said by them on this matter, at this time, in this space. no one can know.

I have yet to meet anyone in our fellowship who does not truly NEED al-anon because people don't always act the way we want them to act. That said, let's all stop counseling and coaching and breaking anonymity and making ourselves "special." Let's all keep our hats at the door... even if the internet is an easy place to break rules.

Let's all strive to do better tomorrow.

Please keep this thread open. Being anonymous, there is nothing personal, nothing we are all not guilty of, nothing to be ashamed of. We maintain our dignity and self-control while allowing everyone to express their views and opinions.

If anyone finds it helpful, the following questions are from Conflict Resolution using our Twelve Traditions. (S-72)

How can we put aside our differences and focus on our common goal(s)?

What role does a loving HP play in our conflict?

How can we maintain a united focus?

If our individual causes are adding to the conflict, what is preventing us from leaving them outside the door?

How can we be sure we are not trying to force solutions to please individuals?

How could aspects of this conflict affect Al-anon as a whole?

How does our conflict affect our focus on our single purpose?

How can we cooperate with each other while still respecting and maintaining individuality?

How does the way we communicate fuel conflict?

How can we improve our communication in our current discussions?

When in conflict, what can we do to remember that we share as equals in Al-anon?

How can we be sure we are not trying to force solutions?

How can we focus on our common purpose and not on our differences?

How can we create new ways to deal with conflict that are different from how we have handled conflict in the past?

How can we use the principle of attraction rather than promotion to resolve the conflict?

What are some of the principles we need to listen for in our discussions?

How can we listen to the principles in others messages, instead of reacting to their personalities?

-- Edited by 2HP on Tuesday 21st of July 2020 08:24:39 PM

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

hey 2HP....great points.. I always said I am as sick as my secrets...I like the PM thingy because if I need to chat personal with a mod or a friend, its there for me to use...I don't use it much...as to "everyone being gentle" that is kinda impossible with the multiple personalities on here, but I am slowly learning principles over personalities..I can be a fire cracker when provoked, but I try to use control , but I am not afraid to set down a powerful boundary as needed....

I for SURE, don't know whats right for everyone..i hardly know ME, let alone another, so I try to keep "I" statements and "ME" statements..what I experienced, saw, did, etc...but in the past , I was "stone guilty" of trying to tell others what to do...I was WRONG....and as to look alike and thinking alike, if that were asked of me, i would RUN...I don't see that here..I see everyone being allowed to be themselves as long as they use proper treatment/respect of others......my HP is necessary for my recovery...to rely on ONE person?? I did that in the past with a bad sponsor who turned on me, exposed my private stuff, so I learned....she was IN RECOVERY for a reason...Only God knows whats best for me......

I know I mentioned John and Betty, especially Betty because she mentored me for a long time..I honor her by paying forward what she taught me....True, this is MY lesson while I am here and I slip and slide but hopefully move forward even if it IS in a zig zag fashion of ups and downs.....I know I NEED Al-anon big time...I will need recovery for the rest of my life..and every time I get on MIP (I belong to 2 boards here and I NEED them both) I learn every time I show up...may be painful, but I still learn, and if I don't?? Lesson repeats till I finally give in and be open, honest and humble and willing....................JUST sayin

Temple · ~*Service Worker*~

There have been some interesting and enlightening posts on this thread.

I, for one, will really miss Bo if he decides to give it up. I don't think a week has gone by since he began his 2,000 plus posts that something he
has shared about his own journey hasn't just leaped out at me: Oh--that's how you do that! That's a thought to hold! I printed out a lot of them.
And time to time I'd PM him and thank him. I felt he had a vivifying effect on the board, all told.

Bless us and keep us.

Temple

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

As mentioned yesterday, I am now closing this thread. Any member is free to start a separate discussion. This was intended as a clarification for a member, asked in another thread. I only started another thread as I was not comfortable being so off-topic in the other discussion.