Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Maresie888 · ~*Service Worker*~

Addiction

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

Your neighbors made a decision to smoke...to not follow a rule...and you decided to ask someone to come and present on smoking cessation methods? Forcing your will? You seemed to be offering something that wasn't wanted or even remotely asked for. I could see if you called enforcement to enforce...but to offer smoking cessation classes? That's not your business. Them disturbing you and not allowing you the peaceful enjoyment of your home is your business, but that's not what you called for.

Mel, his legs, and his rash are none of your business. Him not getting it checked out and his health insurance coverage is none of your business.

Stay on your side of the street. Look at and watch your side of the street. What others do or don't do with their side of the street is not your business.

Take what you like and leave the rest.

Maresie888 · ~*Service Worker*~

Actually it is my business because I have asthma and the smoke is a big irritant. I.asked the tobacco.control people over to.ask about enforcement. They declined to.do that. So did the lsndlord I.have no.doubt I got asthma from being in a smoking environment. I almost died from it. So yeah it is my business if I come out in the hallway because I do not want to have an asthma attack. I.went and got the asthma medication recently. The copay was about 3 days wages So yeah asthma is very much my concern Living somewhere where neighbors are addicted is a big deal. Their neglect of their health has an affect on me I.got this far I would like to stay alive for a while longer. Ever take a breath.and not be able to breathe out again? I paid plenty for my asthma medicine. I.would rather not have to use it I believe I.have already had Covid but until I get a antibody test I dont know that for certain. It most certainly is.my business if my neighbors have Covid. I will be maintaing a atrict 6 feet distance from them. If one person has it others probably.do. Sorry all my side of the street. Health is the bottom line. Maybe it took Covid for me to get that being around unhealthy people is life threatening Maresie

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Maresie - I am sorry that your health is affected by the actions/addictions of others. I am a former smoker, but I am not one of 'those former smokers' who goes after current smokers. Quitting smoking for me was harder than quitting alcohol. It was obvious to me the damage booze was causing me - physically, mentally, emotionally, etc. The smoking - could not see it for a while longer. I had to hit bottom with smoking just like with alcohol and had much denial for a long time.

I have a SIL who is very allergic to cigarette smoke - even the smell on clothing affects her. She came and visited once and was able/open to tell me she could not return because of the smoke. At the time, I did take it personally....with more time, I truly came to understand.

I have no ideas how you protect yourself and your health when you must live in a complex type situation. If anything pops in my mind, I'll let you know.

Bo - Your post is mean, opinionated, and truly not supportive or close to the spirit of recovery. Please refrain from offering your opinion and advice to others, and try to share ESH instead. I don't want to moderate you but I will. I feel you attacked another member here - not your place and certainly not your side of the street to judge anyone else for any reason at any time.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

Marissa .. hugs .. it's really hard to stay in my lane with stuff like this. I live in Texas and covid19 we had 13k cases in one day. So my anxiety regarding my family's safety is big .. both my sig other and myself are essential workers. I work in social work non profit and my sig other works at box store warehouse. Anyways .. my work my department decided to have team building inside 14 people crowded together in a modular building breakroom .. sitting elbow to elbow no masks and breathing on each other from across the table. This wasn't how it was presented .. it's against our covid19 policy. No team building .. no gathering of any size can happen, I took a stand for me .. basically I was more comfortable eating at my desk. Personally and I thought this, i wasn't interested in the covid19 petridish experience. My business is doing what's best for me not telling them they can't. I was told first I didn't have a choice and by golly I postured up and said yah I think I do. My boss has seen this side of me before and backed down because the last time it didn't end well for anyone. We compromised and I participated off to the side. Like no where near them lol. I'm ok with that. We have had asymptomatic folks ON our campus very recently. No symptoms. I'm angry about the choice in how they are handling this .. again .. i can only worry about me I guess. If you have had covid19 more than 4 months ago the chances of the antibodies still being in your system are probably nil they have also discovered you can get it more than once. I also read that blood type can effect the the symptoms. Just keep taking care of yourself and doing what's right for you .. my experience has taught me i can't control what others do or don't do. We get weekly conferences on what's going on from doctors who are specialists because we work with families. Hugs.

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

Maresie888 wrote:
Some of the people in my building are totally addicted to tobacco. Two years ago the City and the County introduced measures to ban smoking in.the building. They had a meeting where residents stated their rights were being taken away. They were livid. Among them was one charactor #Mel# who was particularly nasty especially towards the city staff. Of course naturally this #rule# has not been enforced. The smell of cigarette smoke is oretty strong in the building most of the time. Mel was very vocal at that building thar he did not have cancer and was not going to get it. Moreover he stated he has been smoking for 40 years and nothing is goimg to change that Then I asked some tobacco control people to come out to have a meeting about what smokimg cessation measures were available. You would think I was tryjng to poison my neighbors. They were absolutelu livid that I would even suggesr that they could consider cessation even if those classes were free. A few weeks ago Mel developed a rash on his legs. Of course he did not go get it checked out even though he is a veteran and has a great health system It turns out a rash is one of the symptims if Covid. Mel is in the hospital and has been there almost two months. I do not know if he is coming back. Generally the longer the hospitalizarion the worse the outcome He stuck with his addiction through thick and thin. God help anyone who got in the way of that. God help me for even suggesting it at any time. Where did I get that idea from? If course I will not be mentioning where smoking took him. I do not need to be lynched again. Lynching is commonplace when you get in the way of someone's addiction not matter what the cost to them Maresie

Sounds like enforcement? Not to me. To each their own. I've learned to look at my role, my contribution, and if I am forcing my will. For me, enforcement is one thing, directly trying to get someone to change, do something, stop doing something, etc. -- that's something different. Same outcome? In this case, sure is, but cause and effect is often separate and distinct. Even at that -- I've long heard, you can always tell the newcomers/beginners from the seasoned/veterans...the newcomers/beginners spend 95% of their time talking about and focusing on the other person(s)...seasoned/veterans spend 95% of their time talking about themselves. Sometimes when we are "in it" -- we don't even know we are "in it" -- forest through the trees -- in the soup -- whatever you want to call it.

Good luck with your efforts and I hope you stay healthy and safe. All the best.

Maresie888 · ~*Service Worker*~

I.did ask the tobacci control people to enforce the city statute. Technicaljy they are the department of public health. They were not interesred but they wanted ne to be in their group. These days I am not in grouos which do not work for me. One reason I mentioned ny.neighbor had a rash was that a ad hoc rash with no.symptoms is part of the covid syndrome. One problem with believing I have alreafy had covid is that I dont take my risk seriously. I need to find out if indeed I have had covid by taking the antibody test I.cannot presume anything. I.am a person who learned as a child to duscount my needs. That is ny baseline discounting. My parents and siblings are not the only ones who smoked around me. These days I do indeed avoid people like my neighbor because his smoking is incredibly self destructive. I have made no enquiries about how he is. I do not intend to suggest he quits smoking Ideally in this COVID world I would work from home. That isnt an option for me right now because of the construction noise. At bv some time in the future it may be. I have to take my health seriously because I was pretty sick this year Since I have been bacj at the aoartment I rarely if ever talk to any of my neighbors. I choose actively not to get involved. In addition I have very little to do with management on site. That was not tye case before. My boundaries are in a very d8fferent soace than they were before Every day my.main priority is.myself not the building, not ny neighbors and certainly my major priority is ny health and well being. For most of ny adult life my own well being was not an issue. Every one else came first. I came last and in realty I didnt even register as someone of value to myself at all. Maresie

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear Maresie....this is a tough one....I like what Iamhere said.......if this were me, I am allergic to smoke as well...but I cannot force or coerce others to quit...I don't allow smoking in MY house or MY car and I avoid smokers as it makes my asthma kick up which is usually under control....

I wish I had a solution for you as you take care of you, yet staying in your own lane, its like my job thingy...I can't make him change and treat us like humans, I can't make him protect us with BASIC measures from the covid for which i am high risk.....soooo my solution is to quit my job, get out of the abuse and reduce his putting me at high risk for Covid....we can't change others...and when that hits my face (like my position now) I ask HP..."Dear HP...I KNOW you don't want me crashing due to stress over load and getting Covid, so HP, WHERE do YOU want me to be??? WHAT is your plan for me????"

Maybe in my situation, I am being challenged to TRUST...maybe I am like that guy hanging off a cliff with a tiger over head, waiting to eat him, maybe I am to "JUMP" and just TRUST that HP will cover me before I hit the ground in a big "splat" sometimes we just have to bite the bullet and do what we gotta do and trust that it will work out

I wish I had an answer for you....so wish I did...I hear ya on the smoking...I can't get near the stuff...I can't breath.....when I broke up with my neighbor up the street because she turned on me for the SECOND time, I disconnected.....I don't miss the wheezing from being in her roach infested house with multiple kitties whose fur hurt my breathing.....sometimes we just have to find a way to walk away and and toss the outcomes to our HP.....

sending you SUPPORT....those people are most likely not going to change....and so like Jerry said to me "he gets quiet and ASKS his HP, what do you want me to do?? where do you want to place me????" and then the TOUGH part-----be quiet an let HP guide....I am going to meditate on HP and his will today as the big bombshell email is going out tomorrow night if he does not sign my check and even then, I might do it...I am at awful risk for covid and more stress....stress, at my age is not only bad, but its dangerous for my health that is still goodk but I feel myself beginning to "fade" a bit as I age....serenity, peace and keeping it simple, easy does it are my life goals....

Toronto · Newbie

This my first time posting. I am a double winner (sober 4.5 years) and married for 5. Anyways, this thread compelled me to join the conversation. I get the frustration of other's repulsive behaviours that threatened my physical and mental health. I always fought for my rights vehemently on a professional and personal level. I joined AA in 1995 and could only manage to stay sober in 6 to 9 month stretches. What is my point? I met a member who is Bo-like in early 2016. Guess what? I have now maintained 4.5 years of continuous sobriety. I have inner peace and joy. I focus on fixing me. God steers, I row. The blunt force of the members like Bo saved my life. Again, I empathize with your plight. I hope your Higher Power presents a viable solution. Please stay safe.

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

Iamhere wrote:
Maresie - I am sorry that your health is affected by the actions/addictions of others. I am a former smoker, but I am not one of 'those former smokers' who goes after current smokers. Quitting smoking for me was harder than quitting alcohol. It was obvious to me the damage booze was causing me - physically, mentally, emotionally, etc. The smoking - could not see it for a while longer. I had to hit bottom with smoking just like with alcohol and had much denial for a long time.

I have a SIL who is very allergic to cigarette smoke - even the smell on clothing affects her. She came and visited once and was able/open to tell me she could not return because of the smoke. At the time, I did take it personally....with more time, I truly came to understand.

I have no ideas how you protect yourself and your health when you must live in a complex type situation. If anything pops in my mind, I'll let you know.

Bo - Your post is mean, opinionated, and truly not supportive or close to the spirit of recovery. Please refrain from offering your opinion and advice to others, and try to share ESH instead. I don't want to moderate you but I will. I feel you attacked another member here - not your place and certainly not your side of the street to judge anyone else for any reason at any time.

And that is your opinion as well...right? Just clarifying.

Maresie888 · ~*Service Worker*~

Actually there is no blunt force. Dealing with rules thar are not enforced is a hard one. For me the weed smolimg is more than a health issue. I do not want to go anywhere smelling of weed. The building I live in does not enforce the rules. The city amd county does not.enforce the rules. They want to #look good# My neughbir #Mel# did mot want to go to the hospital because they do enforce the rules. For certain people like #Mel# their add8ction will kill them. I know ither people like him. These days just get out of their way. The ex roommate being one of them. I no longer have #show downs# at the ok corral with anyone am better able to #let go# My health is most certainly my business. My.mental health, my physucal health is my business. I live within a lot of double bimds. I have to nabigare them no one else does. There are more double bimds to come. One ofbthe reasons I was #stuck# with the qualifier was that the recession of 2008 was so bad. I did not make good choices. However my.choices were limited There is another recession coming. I.need to be ready for that one. Whatever choices I make need to be mindful of that I hace people in my life a therapist, friends who give ne guidance. They are very helpful. I do not need anyone to set me #straight# any more. There is no falking of the waggon for ne at this stage in my recovery Maresie

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Maresie - with or without a medical condition, you and all of us have the right to a happy, healthy home. As I consider your scenario, and equate it to the addicted persons around me, there's no doubt I would go to any lengths to to protect my healthy, sanity and home. You have the right to do whatever you decide to do to achieve that....I have some neighbors currently who are in AA recovery and have been for decades. They've allowed a relative live in their home, and an adult child of the relative. It so happens that there 'space' faces the master of my home, so I can smell pot when I am going to bed...it's quite annoying and doesn't smell well to me.

I did go for a discussion and asked they find another place if they must indulge and also asked them to stop throwing cigarette butts into the street, as they blow into our yard. There have been other issues - they park their beat-up, broken-down vehicles on my side of the street, brought home a 40 foot travel trailer (which is against the homes association and the city rules) and much, much more. What I finally decided is if I have the intelligence and ability to look up the city code and the laws, so do they. I basically said that I was not walking back over any longer to peacefully resolve my concerns and would instead contact proper authorities for violations. Pot is not legal here and our city has some of the most strict rules about home upkeep, neighborhood beautification, etc. I love that my neighbors are helping another, but not at the expense of my home value or quality of life.

There are so many who if you give an inch, they take a mile. For me, I just had to back up and consider the Serenity Prayer - changing that which I can! Do what you need to do for your health, sanity and quality of life. Nobody will ever take care of me as I try to today.

Toronto - welcome to MIP. Glad you joined in and joined us. I too am a double-winner, a member of AA & Al-Anon. In AA, there are many Bo-like members who give advice, direction and stern guidance. In AA, cross-talk, advice, and strong message delivery is much more acceptable. So as to not pollute this discussion, I'll refrain from why that is here - you are welcome to start a new discussion if you want to hear more. This is an Al-Anon forum, and while it's not aligned with WSO and 'formal Al-Anon', we do the best we can to follow the Al-Anon principles which suggest a much more gentle approach offering only ESH and suggestions and NO JUDGEMENT.

Bo - I can't control how you choose to interpret my warning. That's up to you. What I will say is you have been asked repeatedly via Private Messages to stop cross-talking, stop quoting others, and stop advising/judging others. Had I not been prompted by members to read your post, I would not have commented about your post. Your direct style, while not meaning to be, often is offensive, abrasive and shuts down others who really need a place to come to for ESH, support and gentleness. You certainly have every right to keep doing what you're doing and I have every right to moderate as I see fit to ensure ALL members feel safe. Your posts, at times, make others feel attacked, judged, directed, advised and such.

You enjoy pointing out that we are not 'official Al-Anon' which is unnecessary as it's at the top of every single page. That being said, that does not excuse anyone to post in such a manner that others feel uncertain, unsafe or unwelcome. I will do whatever I feel is necessary is preserve what John built for us and what Betty worked tirelessly to keep for us. So, to clarify more simply, not my opinion. Your post was brought to my attention by more than one member as being out of line.

Maresie - sincere apologies for the disruption in your discussion.

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

I was just clarifying...and on that note I will now clarify what you have now opened the door to and have said.

First, I have NOT been asked repeatedly via Private Messages to stop cross-talking, stop quoting others, and stop advising/judging others. That's false. The truth is I have not received anything but complimentary PM's in over 2 years -- other than one PM and that was from you. One. Not repeatedly. I went and checked. If you have access to PM 's I would invite you to check them as well. Second, if you cannot go and check the PM's, then I offer to send them to you. Although, I do hope you have access to them and can check them. That way we don't have to deal with your opinion or mine, we can deal in facts! Third, the only PM I have ever gotten that was NOT complimentary was from you. One other PM I got from Betty was a question as to my intention and meaning on a post, and that resulted in a discussion between us. It was not a warning and she stated so. If you are going to label, accuse or state things -- let's at least be accurate, factual, and fair. That's not too much to ask.

Lastly, I don't enjoy pointing out anything vis a vis official and the like -- but I do point it out and it is a fact -- and I point it out because it is a point that I feel puts certain commentary in a proper and healthy perspective. That's my opinion and my experience. Am I not allowed to share that?

Thank you in advance for being fair, which I feel you have always tried to be. I hope that continues.

Maresie888 · ~*Service Worker*~

Weed is certainy legal. However is supposed to be no smoking whatsoever in the building This rule is not enforced I tried to get it enforced. No joy. Letting go is hard for me. I cannot fight every battle. Taking care of mysef is key. I have t marshall all my energy to do that I have a full plate and I am dealing with it. Maresie

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

J(((((((((((((Maresie))))))))))))))))) I sure hope you can find a resolution to this........geeee so much ugliness in this world...Like IAH said..."you give folks an inch and they take a mile" so much self centeredness and "entitlement" so sad....I am so glad I can come here and see folks who are NICE to "chat" with and exchange with.....I have really cut back my circle, close circle of friends...once I see abuse, bullying, I am GONE!!! that is not a human mistake, that is a pattern....willful putting others at risk is a pattern...so sorry!!!! I hope you can find a way to take care of yourself....

Maresie888 · ~*Service Worker*~

Well they are not people who I hang out with I have nothing to do with most of ny neighbirs. I have disinvested myself in the building I jist keep working on myself Maresie

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene