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Last night was a rough night. My A bf got fired from his job that he just recently got hired from. He started working overnight 8 pm to 6 am. He came home around 2 am last night he said he had gotten fired. He drank a 4 pack of those mini wine bottles during his lunch break and when he returned got into an argument with another employee over a minor thing. I know how he is when he is drunk and argumentative I can only imagine how it went down. He was very upset when he got home. I didn't know what to tell him. I just knew their isn't anything I could do. I know I need to detach from this issue. I've read a little about detaching with love. But what does that look like? I feel that the part that effects me the most is him getting fired because it creates a financial issue with our household. I'm not sure how to detach. He came home and told me what had happened but he kept yelling and I just nodded. He said why don't you say anything to me. I just said I'm listening to you and I feel maybe you need to just vent. I said I'm here for you. After he finished yelling I went to check on the kids and stayed in the living room. He fell asleep a few hours ago. I made breakfast and I'm online working. I don't know what to say when he wakes up and I will just take it one hour at a time. I have my readers and I read somewhere on one of the posts to go to the index and look up pages on the topic I think that's what I will do on my downtime today.
{{{Dragonfly}}}, I think you did great! Even in the face of financial fears, you were able to just listen, not respond with anger, and then go about your life. That had to be very hard, and yet you did it. I believe that's what detachment with love looks like. And you have a plan to use the literature for more guidance -- I think you are handling it like a rock star!!!
You might not feel loving, in the face of what happened. That is OK. It is OK to "act as if." By not fanning the flames, you have created a calm situation. Maybe later on you will be able to figure out the finances. But for this moment, surviving a rough night with dignity -- please give yourself credit for this huge accomplishment, and take a well deserved rest.
First, you did fine. You were -- and still are -- in a no win situation. It didn't and doesn't matter what you said or what you say. No win. Are you going to meetings? Do you have a sponsor?
Second, if you are and do, you'll understand that he's going to do what he's going to do -- drink, yell, blame, criticize, whatever -- no matter what you said or do. Why? No win. Also, because he's an alcoholic. That's what they do and that's the disease.
Third, when someone says what does that look like -- in my experience that often means -- you are looking for the magic words, what to say, how to behave, and so on. If you don't change, your thinking, your mindset, your actions and reactions, your behavior, and so on; then the words, what you say, how you behave, is going to be insincere and inauthentic. You might be, kind of, "acting" so to speak. Keeping in mind the second response above -- what it looks like is you focusing on you. Are you working? You say you are online working -- meaning your job? Well, you can say that...I am here for you, and I am sorry that you got fired, and I wish there was something I could do...however, why don't you think this through, and maybe you will come up with something that you can do...and if there is something that can be done, I am sure you will figure it out...or maybe there is nothing to do...and right now, I have my job, my work, that I have to do as there is a deadline looming. Perhaps we can talk about this later.
Now, if he's drinking, acting out, sober but dry drunk behavior, whatever...then all bets are off...detachment looks very different...it looks like you saying I am not going to get into this with you right now...or I am sorry you feel that way...or if you've previously set boundaries...you can say As I've explained to you before, when the conversation gets to a certain point or tone, and you are yelling at me, I am not going engage with you and get into a back and forth with you. However, if you don't understand boundaries and haven't set them...then this will come across as dismissive or you ignoring him, the issue, etc.
Detachment doesn't mean amputation. It doesn't mean ignoring. It doesn't mean abandoning. It means detaching from what is not healthy and good for you -- sometimes behavior, sometimes a conversation, and yes, sometimes a person. There is physical detachment...and there is emotional detachment.
Many people, beginners and seasoned people alike misunderstand and misinterpret detachment and what it means and what it is for. If the alcoholic is angry at you -- then it means you are probably doing something right! LOL. Sounds like a joke, but there's truth to it.
That said, one can read about detachment and how to do it...no different than one can read about how to ride a bike. Go read about how to ride a bike and then go do it. See how quickly you fall. Get the point. As far as him getting fired and that it creates a financial issue with your household -- OK, I got it. So what does that mean? Are you angry? What are you angry at? Yes, you may be angry at him, but also, what are you angry at? While you might be angry at him and the financial issues this has created -- right now, here and now -- this is your life. You cannot do anything about the cards you are dealt. Nothing at all. Period. BUT...YOU CAN and DO CONTROL HOW YOU PLAY THE HAND!!! Does that make sense to you? Do you understand what that means?
You are at a point where you decide how you handle things and how you move forward with this situation.
Go to official, conference approved (web) alanon meetings. As many and as often as you can. Find a sponsor. Start doing the work. Start making change. Baby steps. Little by slowly. Work with your sponsor. If you do these things...you can and will get better...and your life can and will get better.
All the best.
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Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
(((Dragonfly))) - I also believe you did great. There are no hard/fast rules about recovery, detachment, boundaries, etc. We each get to practice what might work and stick with what does. My experience before recovery was that I was very reactive, especially to 'bad news'. I also advanced from reactive, full of fear, to projection and rarely projected positive outcomes. What really helped as I embraced recovery was doing exactly what you did - practice listening. As I was listening, I practiced seeking to understand. I also held tight close to my heart/mind that Alcoholism is a disease, not a choice. Like you, I also practiced going on about my day in the healthiest way I knew how.
I am sorry for the difficult evening and for the news he brought home. Your plan for today sounds awesome - more of doing the next right thing. What I really, really loved about Al-Anon when I was first starting was the no pressure approach to living. It was refreshing for me to know I only had to get through this one day as best I could. I did not have to worry, plan, react, respond to events not yet here. Small amounts of program effort each day made differences for me one day at a time. Trust that there is no shame in loving an A, and it's OK to say, I am sorry you lost your job.
With my A(s), we've been through lost jobs, jail, court, prison, treatment and more. What Al-Anon taught me is while I work to take care of me, and seek to become more healthy, I don't have to abandon those I love. I would not walk away from a child/husband who had cancer or who had diabetes. I might be concerned if they blew off an appointment or made unhealthy choices. I had to think this way, and became willing/able to say what I needed to - I am concerned for your health - without chiding, scolding, preaching, controlling, etc. I am a big believer in pausing and praying before proceeding, esp. in difficult times/situations.
Keep doing what you're doing and take good care of you. There is always hope and help in recovery - keep coming back!
-- Edited by Iamhere on Thursday 16th of July 2020 01:23:08 PM
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
"I know I need to detach from this issue. I've read a little about detaching with love. But what does that look like?"
Detachment for me is freeing myself from over involvement with troubles of someone else. In a situation like you've described, I've learned it's not my job to rescue someone from a bad situation for which they are responsible. I'm free to separate myself emotionally rather than take on the emotions they are feeling. I didn't cause it, can't control it and can't cure it. It's important for me to maintain my separateness and not allow myself to be overtaken by another's emotions who is upset and take care of things in my own life. If I find myself walking on eggshells because of someone else's attitude, I typically check in with myself and ask why I'm allowing myself to be affected by something that nothing to do with me. I think you did a good job in this situation to offer loving support without getting enmeshed in his problem and possible. You listened to him but it isn't your job to make him feel better. He has to deal with how he is feeling and take responsibility for his own behavior. My experience has been that when someone is that angry, whatever I say never enough. Typically, I've thought afterwards that I just should have detached - minded my own business.
He took the action he did at his job and the consequences are his to deal with. This would also include any financial consequence to you, personally or the household due to his actions. There are lots of readings on Boundaries in the indexes of our daily readers. Those are a nice compliment to readings on Detachment. I find them helpful because when I'm personally affected, I sometimes need to have additional conversations or take actions honor my own well-being.
I'm sorry you're experiencing this but glad you are prioritizing your kids, job and trying to stay balanced with your own routines. Hope something here is of help to you. ((hugs)) TT
I love this!!! Thank you TT!!!
While I can free myself from over-involvement with the troubles or problems of someone else, or something they created -- those troubles or problems may have an impact on me. Like in your case dragonfly -- his getting fired has a financial impact on the household and you. I get that. That's life. For me, I too, like TT learned that it's not my job to rescue someone from a bad situation...one which they created or contributed to and one for which they are responsible for!!! A parallel to that is the program teaches us that the alcoholic has to feel and experience the consequences of their own actions! Well, that's the parallel here.
I am free to not take ownership of his/her doing, decisions, actions, problems...and separate myself emotionally...and yes, I did not cause it, cannot control it, and cannot cure it...IT BEING people, things, their decisions and actions...and so on! I also do not want to get sucked into their drama, chaos, turmoil, and havoc. They are yelling...I don't have to yell. They are angry, I don't have to be angry. They are mad, I don't have to be mad...not at them, me, or anyone else. Detachment is detaching from that which is not good for us and not healthy from us. Detaching from a person, a situation, a conversation, whatever the case might be.
Now, the impact on you and the household is something different. That is separate and distinct from how you handle "him" -- and how you handle "him" and how you handle the impact on you (financially) and the household are also separate and distinct.
Thanks again TT!!!
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Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
Detaching with love is like having a black belt in detaching. You gotta start from the beginning. Almost 3 months ago I spent 4 months living with an active alcoholic in a room.mate situation. His self absorbtion was incredible.
I still have to deal with him on a very limited basis. I do not expect myself to detach with love at this stage. The fact I can be civil matches my expectations
In reality you are lifting a 300 lb weight right off. We start off detaching with the small stuff and we do it moment by moment. Some days are better than others
Right now I am aware I have too much on my plate so I.di not add any more. I let myself drown before. In this case I limit my interactions with certain people who trigger me. The ex roommate being one of them. He is absolutely insufferable. So my responses to him are pretty non soecific. I do not maje enquiries either. Of course it is easier to detach from someone when they are not right up in your face.
Keep your expectations low. Detachment is a real art. It is worth learnimg but it takes oractice. Of course you are in the market for a lot of that.
Maresie
Detaching with love for me came after detachment period! LOL. Detaching with love was such a foreign concept to me, because I was angry!!! Very angry. There was no love going on at that moment...I was detaching not because it was healthy for me to do so...I was detaching because I was angry!!!
My experience was detaching period first. Learning and making change in and around acceptance, surrender, and letting go second. Then came detachment with compassion. Then came detachment with love. Sounds like a short distance between those dots...but it was not! LOL. It's a journey. Letting go of the anger took time. The biggest problem for me was while I was detaching, I was also collateral damage. I was also direct damaged. I detached from the person and the yelling, screaming, didn't get sucked into the back and forth, and so on...but I still had to deal with the consequences of her drinking, specifically the results that came from it. She took my car one night. My brand new car. And, she drove it off the road, into a ditch, and got it stuck there. Obviously there was a lot of damage. So after the car was towed -- I was the one without my car. Yes, we had a third car, and I did use it, but I was without my car. I had to pay for the car to be repaired. I told her she had to call the insurance, deal with the entire situation, and figure out how to get my car back in the driveway. From ditch to driveway, I got her to handle it. If she didn't, I was going to take her car! LOL. Well, no, I wasn't going to do that.
If you are not married and not living with the other person...you are at a very distinct advantage!!! LOL. There is one person, an ex, who still texts, tries to contact me, etc. -- and I do not engage at all. It is unhealthy and toxic for this person to be in my life at all. It is not good at all for me to even respond to a text...period. There is not one response that can be made where the result won't be bad. I know it. I am the healthy one.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
Detaching with love was a two level situation for me when I was learning how.
First off good work with what you have done so far in your recovery.
Love? I had to change my entire perspective on what this is and was at the time. I had to get the fluff out of my head and thoughts and to see my alcoholic/addict as a human being suffering from a life threatening disease that she and I knew nothing about yet was affecting negatively everything we had exercised up until that time. We had drank together and habitually. We knew beer and booze and getting drunk but accepted that all as normal not as bad but as okay until things got out of control. Out of control most often was when either of us stopped "normal". We didn't know the program lessons on habitual intoxification and so we often were in the insanity conditions as described in the definitions of the disease. I said for me early on that "I didn't know and didn't know I didn't know".
When I let the program and the fellowship ESH each me about Love I grew while she continued to drink and live within the insanity. I came to understand and changed while she became confused and resistant. We were not on the same base and like where you and your alcoholic are at now, even farther away from the understandings that create miracles when practiced on a daily basis. My present wife and I are both in Alanon without guarantees and what that means is that we can fall off of practice and into past behaviors, thoughts and feelings that in the past didn't serve us well.
At the moment you and your alcoholic are into different thoughts, feeling and behaviors and he also is using a chemical which relates to a compulsion of the mind and allergy of the body which alters everything you are bound to and supposed to be at odds when the disease is running.
You have heard about detachment which is separation including the need from and off control of other people, places and things and one of the strongest slogans in aid of detachment is Let God. Letting God and ....letting God increases the strength of the slogan as it adds a character to rely on much greater than an alcoholic. I have learned to let go changing the words of Love to Acceptance where the other person I am detaching myself from becomes an acceptable human being and not a hateful character and the affects of alcoholism the illness I despise and cannot beat.
I learned about willingness to change which became "in order to find sanity" and I hear you expressing willingness here. Congratulations and keep coming back. Hope and prayers going your way and the way of your alcoholic and family. (((((hugs)))))
I'm sorry you are going through this. I can relate to how it feels to live with an active alcoholic and have children. Trying so hard to normalise the chaos the drinking often brings. For me I did exactly what you did, tried to be supportive and understanding, taking his side above all else, trying to calm the situation and i was driven by the idea that I needed things to 'feel' normal for my kids and for him but mostly for me. I was terrified of the chaos that the disease brought into my life and I became an expert at very quickly minimising it, brushing far under the rug and searching searching frantically for a solution to restore the 'peace' I learned later this was my denial driven by a crippling fear to face the truth. I was terrified of the truth because I didn't have the answers for it so I couldn't look at it so I focused on each event and was quite good at smoothing them over and then pretending they never happened. Im not sure if this your experience but your post reminded me of this time in my life. When I got to Alanon I had ran out of success with my fixing and it had gotten way to big. I had surrendered my control of it all. Alanon peiple and the steps and readings was telling me there was a different way to deal with this and I was given a leaflet called 'detachment.' The words are beautiful to me and the instructions are clear and simple. For me they worked immediately, things began to improve. I couldn't believe it at first but now I have trust in a higher power i can see how detachment is the right thing and the loving thing to do. The leaflet is on the website to order if you would like a copy. It was my go to at the beginning. Recovery is a process and the changes happen that are life transforming. Welcome to the process.x
My journey to detachment from my AH was a long one, but one where I learned alot about myself in the process.
First I found it hard to detach at all - that was when I was in the active controlling phase of my own journey where I was still trying to fix things. Next came detachment but with resentment. I would leave the house but still feel angry and resentful and clearly remember all my energy feeling like it was being drained away as I came closer to our house. After that came physical detachment and he left the house for a period of 6 months. It personally gave me the space to continue working on me.
Finally he came back to the house (still an active alcoholic) and I learned how to completely let go and focus on my life, detaching emotionally enough to make sure I remained healthy while also having some compassion for him and the disease. The key for me personally was the absolute letting go of any vestige of control and wanting to fix and change him. Now I focus on what I want out of my life and for my children and we have serenity in our lives. It is not all plain sailing but compared to what it was in the beginning it is so much better.
We also separated our finances, so that helped me tremendously aswell.
The AlAnon leaflet about detachment also helped me and reflecting on the readings in Courage to change.
Hi! Just joined up after years of no longer going to Alanon meetings. (Did go to therapy LOL) And while learning about boundaries definitely helped, there is no place like Alanon when you are dealing with an active alcoholic. Dragonfly did great! I've got to re-learn detachment and I am slowly. For a while, honestly, all I felt was hate for him--disregarding every good thing about him. And I knew I was just lying to myself. Behind every bottle is a good human being. You just can't see them thru the liquid sometimes. I realized I was hating myself for being with him, (as if there's some perfect person out there beside me LOL) I was blaming him for ruining my life. But that's a lie... I had choices to change me and my life; to change my attitude towards life. To be grateful. Boy! Gotta pull my dusty alanon books out Thanks for all your great input. There is hope out there, even when it doesn't feel like it. I like on line, it's hard to get to anonymous meetings in small towns.
Welcome to MIP Anna! Glad you found us and glad that you joined right in. I too am looking forward to the journey with you! Keep coming back - it works when we work it!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Welcome, Simple Life!
I could see myself in your share. I look forward to your ESH in the future.
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"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
Welcome Simple Life and thanks for bringing your understandings to the board. Please keep coming back. Just before reading your post my memories agreed that for me detachment started with the first step which was nowhere near how I saw my power and control self when I first agreed to try the program. I had to detach from myself and practice what my Higher Power was all about. I see we learned the same lesson about the person behind the bottle. What a gift!! Keep coming back. Please. ((((hugs))))
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