The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I am reading all of these posts and thinking do I really want to do this? I feel very naive and, quite frankly, stupid.
I started seeing someone last fall. I work with him and knew that he went through a 30 day rehab and 60 day IOP last year, before we started seeing each other. I worked with his family to help get him into this rehab. When he came back home, he didn't go to AA meetings but he continued to take his medication. He has been sober over a year.
Well, he started drinking right after his year anniversary. Stopped taking his meds as well. He thought he was cured and that he kicked it. He hid it from me - actually everyone - so I was angry, sad, shattered, etc. when I found out. He left for rehab today.
We had talked of retiring soon and of having a life together. I also told him that if he ever cheated or drank, I would leave.
I understand that this is a disease. And if it were any other disease, I wouldn't even think of running away. But do I want this heartache?
How many chances do you give someone? And at what cost to your own personal well-being?
Aloha Mary and welcome to the board and family...like us you belong here. I relate 100 percent to this post of yours as I have been there and done that also. My relationships were all with others who had the disease of alcoholism and addiction. They sound like your relationship too. I came to understand what I came from so the disease was normal and I didn't' think anything was wrong with my life and relationships until I was as sick as them and didn't know why I should be having so much trouble. This is a deceitful cunning powerful and baffling fatal disease if not arrested by total abstinence. The mental, moral, emotional, stuff that came with it I found out was normal as I listened to the rants and raves of others in program and then listened to those who got their lives corrected in the same manner. Getting a program sponsor was recommended and it took me a long while before I got humble enough to attempt that and then I still didn't do it as suggested. When I finally just put one foot in front of the other and followed how my sponsor suggested to me I started getting sane and manageable. "Admitted I was powerless over alcohol and that my life had become unmanageable was a huge acceptance and then coming to believe that a Power Greater than I would restore me to sanity drove me over the edge because I wasn't looking for another religious program. Considering I would continue being as insane as I was then drove me to being teachable and allowed me the patience to take the time to learn including going to college to actually find out what alcoholism was all about and how it manifested itself in all of my life; I didn't know and didn't know that I didn't know and was able with the help of the program and the fellowship to come to understand. My sponsors and my Higher Power gave me a life I never thought existed.
I am glad your man friend has taken a second chance even though he at first might have thought he was better than all that is available to him. I pray he gets more deeply touched this second time around as I did and my alcoholic/addict wife. When my alcoholic/addict wife finally surrendered to recovery at the hospital recovery program they found her sitting at the edge of the bed with a bag over her head. When the counselor asked her about the bag she replied, "I have come to understand that if I don't allow myself to be blindly led through this AA program I will not make it". That helped her and me even though we didn't remain spouses.
Find the program in your area and get to the meetings as early as you can and listen learn and practice, practice, practice and keep coming back here as often as you can. Mahalo...Thank You for coming and telling us your experience. ((((hugs))))
You don't at first really want to do this...save that for later...just come.
I am sorry for what brings you here, but glad you reached out.
I will second the fact that it is only you who can say what you can, or cannot handle. Understand Addiction... that is a start. Be patient, it won't all come to you at once. Things like expectations, guilt, etc will throw up roadblocks. Many of us had to unlearn what we grew up learning!
One step and a time, one day at a time!
__________________
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
I do not think.it is naive or stupid to be confused about an alcoholic/addict behavior. Having a significant other go to rehab brings up a lot of issues
Al anon can be very useful in finding ways to process those feelings
.
This grouo has been very heloful to me. I am looking forward to a time when face to face meetings are back. In the interim there are zoom meetings.
There are also lots of books that can be extremely heloful. One is called Getting them Sober
I.believe oretty much everyone on this board has found themselves consumed with someone else's drinking.
You are not alone
Maresie .
There was someone here years ago who shared this and I continue to repeat and granted it's now my own version of it, however this was my interpretation.
If you knew now, I mean right now that nothing was going to change in 5, 10, 15, 20 years can you love and accept the alcoholic just where they are right now AND not lose yourself in the process. If you can honestly say yes to that question and you are willing to do the work on yourself and change you, and not try to change or manage the situation/active alcoholic then that makes room for love, acceptance of someone else right where they are at and not looking at potential vs the reality of what is, someone said, the only thing you will change in a partner is their diapers when they get old.
If you believe that your love will change them, something is going to wake them up, maybe you can say, do or whatever the addiction away. It's a loosing battle because the ownership of their changing is on them. I fell into the category of if I do xyz they will get help because they will see what they are doing to me .. and that's def not how addiction in relationships works. It is not a I'm more powerful than the alcoholism because I'm not that powerful over someone else.
Keep coming back here because there are people who stay in a relationship and are happy regardless if the A is drinking or not. I love the book Getting them Sober vol 1 is a great read for being involved with someone who is active in their process. It's black belt alanon even though it's not alanon CAL lit it is the program in a short easy read.
Hugs S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I too send you a warm welcome and am glad that you are here. So sorry for what brings you here. I have nothing new to really add but do hear you! I have a long story, most of which is in my bio so I won't repeat. I can tell you that there are days where I am convinced that if I had to do it all over again, I would have run a long time ago. I can also tell you that there are days where I am convinced I am the most blessed person on the planet, and I would not change a darn thing! So, I am no help!
What I can share is that alcoholism is not predictable. In your case as well as in mine, I had full disclosure prior to the beginning of my journey. However, I could have just as easy fallen in love with another person, who had no known addiction, which could have come 'out' later. We just never know what we don't know and when more is revealed, we always, always have choices.
What Al-Anon has given to me is a set of tools to help me live and enjoy my life One Day at a Time. I've learned how to be me, in spite of what another is doing/not doing, saying/not saying, etc. I've gotten a healthier definition of unconditional love, unconditional acceptance, humility, powerlessness, etc. I've also been given the courage and strength to live my life on life's terms, with the help of a God of my understanding. I am a better version of me due to my arrival in recovery, which would never have happened if I didn't love an Alcoholic, myself included!
Keep coming back - you are not alone and there is always hope and help in recovery!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Welcome...you said several distinct things which you may want to consider looking at from a different perspective. And, that is what alanon is and does -- it teaches us a healthier way to live, how to change our attitudes, behaviors, actions and reactions, and ultimately how we can be happy and healthy...independent of whether the alcoholic is drinking or not. That may sound crazy, but, ideally, wouldn't you want to have your health and happiness NOT BE contingent on the alcoholic and whether or not they are drinking or not? He has a good day, then so do you...he has a bad day, well, then so do you. That's not happy and healthy, at least not for me and my definition.
You can be OK, happy and healthy, whether the alcoholic is drinking or not. That doesn't mean you will be with them, not with them, together, apart, married, divorced, etc. -- it means that you can be OK, happy and healthy...Period. No matter what. It might be with that person, but it might not be. That is not alanon's decision or anyone else's...it is for YOU to decide. Alanon can and will get you to a place where you can make that decision, and be in a healthy place in order to do so.
So, a few things that resonated with me -- you said you felt very naive and, quite frankly, stupid. OK, so, let that go. No need to feel that way, and no need to beat yourself up. Let it go. That is up to you. Period. Alanon can help you with that.
You were angry, sad, shattered, and more, when you found out. Got it. OK, you are supposed to be. You would not be normal if you didn't feel that way. So was I. So was everyone. That is normal. Alanon can help you with that.
You said you understand that this is a disease, and if it were any other disease, you wouldn't even dream of leaving or running away. Right. Of course. Of course you wouldn't...BUT THIS IS NOT ANOTHER DISEASE. So, while people say it all the time, it's irrelevant. The word "if" allows people to not focus on reality, the real issue at hand, and allows them to do what might not be healthy for them. "If" -- so what if? It's not IF. It is what it is -- it is not IF/something else.
You asked if you want this heartache? Seriously? Let's be honest. Of course you don't!!! Who does? Who would? But that doesn't mean you leave. It doesn't mean you stay. It's a fallacious question, unless you can easily ask it and easily answer it, and then, there you are...you have your answer.
How many chances do you give someone? BINGO! There's the question everybody asks. Another fallacious question...right now there is no answer, and only you can answer it. You just might not be ready, and that's OK.
You also asked -- at what cost to your own personal well-being? Well, how sick and unhealthy do you want to get and be? Alanon teaches us that we don't have to sacrifice our well-being and healthiness. That doesn't mean the alcoholic won't still be drinking. But, it is up to us whether or not we can be OK with that...and that happens after we do the work.
I said all the same things you did. I felt the same way. I was in it for 20 years...and you are in it for less than one...but for me what worked is:
I made a commitment and did the work. I went to face to face alanon meetings -- conference approved, official alanon meetings. Due to the current world around us, many, many alanon meetings are now meeting virtually (Zoom, GoToMeeting, etc.). Go to as many and as often as you can. Do the readings...from the daily readers, One Day At A Time, and Courage To Change. I found a sponsor, and did all of this work, and more. Lastly, I made change -- change to my attitude, mindset, behavior, actions, reactions, perspective, and more. I had to change. It was my thinking and actions that got me here...if I wanted to get out...I had to change.
Changed attitudes aid recovery...and that means our attitude and our recovery.
All the best!
-- Edited by Bo on Monday 22nd of June 2020 11:05:10 PM
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
I'm sorry I haven't responded sooner. All of you who responded to my post were great. I have read each post multiple times, trying to absorb what you are saying and how it is even possible to stay in a relationship like this. Your words and insight have been invaluable - thank you. I have been looking online at Al-Anon but haven't pulled the trigger yet to go to a meeting, virtual or otherwise.
He is back from rehab and is doing IOP remotely. He has been going to AA meetings every day. Even though he is doing all of this, I just have had this feeling that he hasn't been doing the work - but rather just going through the motions. Yes - I did all of the wrong things - made suggestions, asked if he was attending meetings, etc. I have stopped doing this, but, honestly, it isn't easy. He disappears from work, which is normal for his position, but I find myself wondering where is he and what is he doing. I know this will take discipline to stop this thinking - stopping the mind spinning. Yes....I do know that if I stay with him, Al Anon is a must. I have been over-involved.
He went to a business lunch on Thursday and drank wine. Then bought a bottle of wine on the way home and drank it. I went to his place for dinner and he was off. Anger and rage over a situation involving a neighbor that was, quite frankly, trivial. I finally asked if he had been drinking and he said yes. I stayed silent as he went on and on about whatever. I told him I wanted to call his dad (I had done this previously with his permission because his father gets through to him - he listens to his dad). He didn't want me to. He continues to ramble on about whatever and then conversation turns to him implying he wants to hurt himself. I told him I needed to call his dad and I dialed his number. He came to me and physically tried to take the phone away, grabbing my wrist in the process. I got up and told him he crossed the line by touching me and I was leaving. I went to the foyer, took his keys and started to leave. He came to me and asked if I had his keys and I said yes, I didn't want him to drive anywhere. Long story short it escalated to where he grabbed me again, was very threatening. I left without his keys. I called his dad and while I was on the phone with him, he called me and said he was going to kill himself. I went back to his place, hysterical as anything. He had his phone and his keys and was going to drive to where his gun safe is. I think my hysteria somewhat snapped him out of whatever rage/suicidal mode he was in. Again, long story short, I calm down, he tells me he needs a drink but he doesn't leave. He eats, feels better and then attended a virtual AA meeting. He then went to bed and I left.
Yesterday he is ashamed, sad, mortified, etc. We have a long phone conversation but really avoided the really ugly part - the part where he got physical - he has never been like this before but now I know he has that capability. And yes, I own what I did wrong. I should not have called his father or taken his keys. Lesson learned.
I am typing all of this and just shaking my head. What do I do now? He wants me to come over tonight. I keep thinking about detaching with love. Showing compassion. Not living in the past. But I also can't ignore what happened - it can never happen again. Ever.
I do understand that I have a lot of work to do on detaching from this...and deciding what to do.
Dear Matoma, what you got was a huge red flag from your HP!!
The question is, are you going to acknowledge it and do something about it, or are you going to justify it? (Hint: it doesn't read like you want to justify)
I would suggest Googling "The Boiling Frog Story." What SerenityRUS responded with is spot on... Can YOU live with this behavior EVERY DAY? Because it is quite possible that this becomes your norm. Many times, addicts/alcoholics will have a "cycle." Co-dependents (if there has to be a term), also have their own cycle. My spouse was always mortified by what he had done/said... until the disease progressed to he didn't even remember, and was accusing me of making things up so I could accuse him!! This disease is progressive unless it is arrested by not drinking any alcohol, or taking any drugs...even then, it waits... still in the body, still a part of their brain chemistry. There is no "cure," like many other diseases.
The key here is: Is this the life you want... what he shows you right now, today?
Acceptance.
Of what is, and what you will tolerate.
Wishing you clarity of thought, and peace !
__________________
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
I am at an age where I value my peace. I went through a divorce several years ago and, as I am now on the other side of that, I recognize how much peace is important to me.
So the answer is no. This is not the life I want. I can not do a repeat of Thursday every day...or ever again for that matter. I would rather be alone in peace. And while I know he wants to be sober, I do not want to be a casualty while he attempts to get there.
His father is an alcoholic as is his brother. Both went through rehab and never picked up again. Sober for decades. I was hoping for that. I know he was as well. Naive on both our parts.
I have children who, even though they are adults now, don't need to be exposed to any of this or watch their mother go through this (not that I would ever tell them the details of any of this).
What the hell was I thinking?!?!
I love him. To watch someone that you care about self destruct is so incredibly difficult. And to just walk away is even harder. It goes against everything inside of me.
You dont actually have to #walk away#
There are ways to stop engaging with an alcoholic su consistently
One of the strategies many people use is to stop engaging when the slcoholic drinks
Believe me many of us including me have many of these kinds of incidents
This form of #traumatic bonding# is cey very very familiar among us.
Relaose is often part of the disease of alcoholism. There is often a way that the alcoholic's relapse becomes a hook.for is to descend into hysteria
There is something in these kinds of incidents that fuel the alcoholic. Having these kinds of interruotions/catasrophes seeme to be part of theif progression
Do you need to be oart of that
No one in al anon is going to judge your situation. No one is going to tell you what to do either
The tools are out there. A program is out there. Perhaps you will consider giving yourself some of the attention you so gnerously devote to the alcoholic?
Maresie
You are so right about not engaging. I did which started the problem - I don't mean I am to blame - I mean that if I would have walked away and let him have whatever consequences were going to happen, the threatening behavior toward me would not have happened....at least this time. That is the hard part for me because the consequences could be so dire.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of you responding. Thank you.
The. Consequences of his behavior are not in your control. That is the alcoholuc nindset to put them off onto other oeople.
I had a friend of mine commit suicide almost two years ago. He was indicating he was suicidal to certain people
They did not know how to respond nor is there any reason they#should# have.
Then he went to a very oublic place (renown for suicides) and commited suicide. The people on site there certainly responded. He was not responsive to their efforts..
One al.anon member I know states that people have a right to destroy themsekves if they choose to. My.chouces were amways to try to save them. That life chouce had enormous oenalties
Does thst mean if
you do not rush over there and intervene you are responsible in no way!! None of us are you evwr responsibme for their behavior and terrible choices
Certainly you had other alternatves. You could have cakked emergency servuces
But hindsight is not akways 20/20.
I have soent a lifetiine being responsibke fir others. i resigned that position
Resigning by no means I do not care. In fact I.care too.much. i have had to out thst energy towards ny own survival. I.deserve that. Today I know absolutely I do.
I an so glad you are here avd talking about how you feel.
Maresie
Welcome to MIP Matoma - glad you found us and so glad that you shared. I so understand and can relate to your title - do I really want to do this? I was married to mine with 2 kids so truly had 'skin in the game' and desired to make it work if possible. It's been a long, painful, troubling, rewarding and more journey. I am a believer that it does get darkest before the dawn. I was so used to doing for everyone and defending myself that I was half mad by the time I got to Al-Anon....maybe full mad - and I'm not talking about crazy.
Alcoholism is a progressive disease for which there is no cure. One can be treated through abstaining and some type of recovery program. It's called a family disease because most who live with or love an A are affected. We are all affected differently yet share many of the same feelings, issues, etc. What I held on to in the beginning was small things I heard and/or the slogans. Keep it Simple. One day at a time. Do the next right thing. Pause and breathe. Don't JADE - Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain....All of these things helped me to remember that trying to have a sane conversation with another who's affected by this disease was just not productive often.
The pandemic sure makes everything harder right now. Know that there is no shame in loving an A, leaving an A or staying with an A. Recovery, just like life is a personal journey and there's no perfect way to 'do it'. I do hope you will do everything/anything necessary to keep yourself safe - abuse is where we do typically advise others, and it's usually to get out and see what local resources are available to you. Keep coming back - you are not alone and there's always hope & help in recovery.
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
