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One thing I never managed to do with the qualifier was to make plans. Every holiday was swallowed up by his need to binge
In 8 years you would think I would have twigged that but nope I was always engaged in this eternal struggle with him
Recently I went to stay with an alcoholic whose disease has progressed. One thing is very clear to me about him is he has absolutely no plans. He has major major health issues His diet is appalling
He wants to sell his house. He makes no.moves towards that end
On so many levels the reason I am so comfortable around this behavior is because I have no plans either
I live in the zone betwen fear and panic. Not too much gets achieved there. That is not too much at all. Really if I am honest very very little. No wonder I am overwhelmed if and when I have to relocate
I am working on plans these bv days. Plans for the week, month. Plans for the end of the year
My diet is improving. My financial health is better. I feel goal orientated. My goals around an alcoholic are totally fixated on them
My compass is set to be away from frustrating never ending double binds
I.found people who are supportive who give good feedback. When I encounter oeo people who cannot acknowledge my needs I am willing to let go.
My life is still unmanageable. In some ways the unmanageable parts are harder than ever.
Nevertheless the joy of saying #No# to the unmanageable parts is very sweet.
Having goals is extremely unfamiliar to me. My goals are generally all about others.
I am halfway through this year and now finally there is a #me# in my vocabulary did not exist before. Without a #me# there really is no relationship there is a hostage taking exercise but not much else
Maresie
I'm so glad you posted this because I have been having this dialog with my sig other as well as myself.
Living in survival mode for so long I have no idea how to make goals. Oh I can talk about what I "want" to do however when it happens I'm left feeling uncomfortable as if someone else is going to steal my joy so to speak. I really don't know how to describe it. It is truly a luxury to set goals and achieve them for myself at least, and my sig other is also kind of stuck in that place of living from one crisis to another and now that has just stopped how to deal with it.
So I decided to write everything down and give myself a time to it. I have given myself permission to change it or break it down to more bite size if it feels to overwhelming, or life happens as it can. I keep thinking of Zig Ziglar who has said "if you aim for nothing you will hit it every time." It's so true. I'm grateful that today I can see these things in my life and sit with the discomfort for a bit to figure out what exactly I want to do and how I want to handle the situation.
I had a discussion many moons ago with my sponsor about the flip side of step 1, I am powerless over .. (fill in the noun .. lol). However, I am powerful over myself, and I have choices that I am responsible for the consequences of those choices the good and the bad. That's a really nice place to be really, to know it starts and ends with me.
Anyways, thank you for bringing this up as it really is where I am currently at in my own life.
S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I am reading great strides forward in an area in which you both have struggled in the past. The past is the past, right? However, the past has a nasty way of clouding the future at times. You are both using the tools at your disposals to begin to plan out your lives - something foreign to you in the past, but no longer! Well done, I say!
I am exactly the opposite, yet feel your shares intensely. I am and was a "planner," However, like Maresie shared, many of my plans were thwarted by my Qualifier. Could've been little day to day things (like holiday plans), or big things (like owning a house, car, paying off loans), they were all ruined by the effects of the disease of addiction. It was one of the main reasons I decided to be single. I did my Step 4 and took a long, hard look at myself...I chose MYSELF for once!!! I no longer wanted to live with that certain type of chaos. Yesterday, I just received the title to my car. I paid that sucker off. Me. I was very proud of myself, and you know what? So was my son! He actually told me, "This sounds weird coming from me, but I am really proud of you, Mom." Yesterday was a red-letter day for me! LOL!
But being a "planner" also means you can sometimes be rigid in your thinking. So I am working on allowing the planning to happen (working on my marital debt now), with a good measure of flexibility thrown in. I am seeking Balance.
Keep moving forward, ladies... change is sometimes hard, but can be oh so good!
&
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"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
Love, love, love the progress, not perfection approach! I can relate to being a planner and extremely rigid in my planning. As with so many things, I obsessed about planning, and wondered why everyone didn't plan. I also planned outcomes - that did not work out so well, and I often found myself disappointed, angry or the like.
I still plan and also, like mentioned, allow flexibility, changes, etc. to happen. That silly word - BALANCE - still eludes me, yet I feel I have better balance today than I used to - so I'll take the progress as a win/success.
Recovery has taught me to do better at incremental living. I was very all/nothing before - example...if I set a goal to exercise one hour 3 days a week, so often I'd end up with 2 days left and then blow it all off. Today, I make sure I exercise every day, whether it's for 5 minutes or a longer period of time. The change is to accept any effort is better than no effort at all.
Z
As I consider each day in the evening as part of Step 10, I literally think of the 4 aspects we are affected by this disease - Spiritually, Emotionally, Mentally and Physically and consider what I did for me for those....as I ponder this, I can see events that served me well and those that did not. I take very seriously choosing joy each morning, and examine each evening how that worked out for me. My experience has been and remains that the more I focus on me, and not others, the better my days are.
There is no doubt I felt a system shock as the chaos/insanity/drama diminished/changed. I truly didn't know what to do with myself and MIP as well as my sponsor and program friends all consistently suggested doing what I enjoy, trying something new, etc. I am one who doesn't do 'well' with an idle mind - it can wonder, and not always to spiritual places!
I'm excited that for the first time since end of February, a small group of us are getting together on Monday for a meeting. We've scoped out a special location with picnic tables so we can socially distance. We're starting with just 6 and we'll see how it goes. We hope to make it a regular thing. I'm very grateful for all the alternatives technology presents for us, but it will be lovely to 'see' my folks and share F2F!
Find and keep your joy MIP! Love and light to all!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thank you all for the wonderful feedback. This year has been incredibly gruelling for me. I have been stymied and frustrated at every turn. This group carried me through it. I want to thank you all for all that uncondotional love and support. I do not know where I would be without you
Maresie
I have to say one of my main olans is not to invite any mire chaos into ny life. That includes work chaos.
I still have to deal with the forner roommate. I limit how much i deal with him which is oerfunctory at best.
When someone contacts me who is a forner boyfriend I ignore them. The qualifier recently contacted me (he nay have mived back intu the area) i delered the message. I do not need to kniw hiw another alcoholic's disease has progressed. I kniw it has. I have not spoken to him in years. There is nothing for me to say
I realy work hard on not engaging with people who are alcoholics/addicts.
I recently met some one casually. He told me he drank during the day (quite a bit too) . A red flag went up
I remain cordial but really I am at my limit of what I can endure.. A red flag went uo I akways ignored all the red flags before or I thought I could deal.with them.
I would rather live on my own for ever than endure another chaotic relationship. That includes a roommate setting. I have to have it thar that is not even a possibility
My relationships are all.about enmeshment. Getting unenmeshed is crotical. Bejng enmeshed contrbutes to my depression. My depression is deadly. I have to take it seriously
One of my other goals if course is to make.my living situation better. I have been at it for weeks. Finally I have nade prigress. I can relax. I have one more box to go.
Then a hige decluttering that will require a big commitment. I cannot wait to be fully comfortable. After living a nightmare for 4 months it is a major issue.. incidentally the ex roommate says regularly #you should never have moved out# With al.anon I can say #you may be right#
Progress not perfection. For me not bejng truggered 24/7is true progress.
Maresie
I sometimes describe the period of life when my wife was full-blown in the disease of alcoholism as being this wild, volatile roller-coaster ride. My wife and I were on this wild ride together, sitting next to each other. It was super-fast, had endless sharp twists and turns, lighting fast, upside down, round and round, hard and fast turns and curves, up, down, back and forth, never knowing which way was up, which way you were going, and on and on. It was brutal. It was a more volatile and wild ride than I could have ever imagined.
Then, during various brief moments of respite, I would turn to my wife and ask her, eventually begging her, pleading with her...I would say "Let's get off this roller coaster. Please, please, don't you want to get off? Let me explain to you why we should get off. I can't fathom, not one millimeter of comprehension, why any normal, healthy, coherent, reasonable, stable person would not want to get off this roller-coaster. I would ask, plead, beg, threaten, negotiate, try to control, force, I would solicit support from people to have them help me convince her to get off, that she should want to get off, anything I could do...I did. For I can't tell you how many years, we were on this roller-coaster. It was horrible. It was worse than anything I could have ever imagined. Now, side note you, your spouse, child, parent, sibling, whoever, if your life is not like that, I am happy for you. I hope it never gets to the point of what I described above. However, as much as you can't and won't believe it...it might...why? Because this is an cunning, baffling, insidious, progressive, unique, and enigmatic disease.
Shockingly, what confused me more than I had ever been confused before...my wife did not want to get off the roller-coaster!!! Sometimes, she enjoyed it! Sometimes, she denied that we were even on a roller-coaster. Sometimes she said it was fun. Sometimes she said the ride was normal, not that bad. Sometimes, she blamed me, said I was exaggerating, making a big deal out of nothing. Sometimes she said I was the only one who thought the ride was bad, that bad, etc. There were numerous consequences to being on this roller-coaster!!! It was take an entire separate portrayal to even speak to some of them, but there were consequences.
Eventually -- I was able to get off the roller-coaster. Long story, long journey getting there, but I was able to!!! I was relieved. I got my life back.
So, I got off the roller-coaster. I was now standing, watching, observing my wife on the roller-coaster. I was on the platform down below, on the ground, where people get on and off the roller coaster. When the roller-coaster would come around, and shoot by me, occasionally I was ask her to get off. Even on more of a rare occasion, I would beg or plead. But whenever she would complain, question, accuse, whatever, about the roller-coaster ride...I would say to her...I am sure you'll figure it out. I would politely say, your ride, your decision to stay on it, you figure it out.
However, there was an interesting, very perplexing, dynamic that occurred...While I was standing there, on the platform...sometimes, when the roller-coaster would speed by...my wife would reach out and try to grab me...and pull me back onto the roller-coaster ride!!! Sometimes she'd ask. Sometimes she'd grab me. Sometimes she'd beg me, goad me, manipulate me, con me, guilt me, seduce me, she would do whatever she could and would to get me back on the roller-coaster.
But...there was a more shocking, dangerous occurrence that developed...something I never would have expected, understood, something I still don't believe happened...something I could have never imagined...something very, very strange...something very, very dangerous...sometimes...when the roller-coaster would speed by...sometimes...I WOULD OFFER AND I WOULD VOLUNTEER...TO GET BACK ON THE ROLLER-COASTER.
Then...I found recovery.
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Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
"I have to say one of my main olans is not to invite any mire chaos into ny life. That includes work chaos."
Mareisie,
This spoke volumes to me. How do I invite chaos into my life.
For me understanding what my part is in the "invite" so to speak is huge. That's again something that I have been really focusing on. Am I communicating my boundaries in a clear concise manner, which is am I saying what I mean (when necessary), meaning what I say and not saying it mean. Or are my actions kind, firm and clear in outlying my boundaries. I am really working on the saying it nice deal .. blah. LOL. I really struggle with that because I prefer not to play games in dealing with some people and you know walks like a duck talks like a duck .. probably a big old duck. I tend to say .. I see a duck, call them out on their duckness as I don't need to be a part of their duckness. When I do that I tend to invite chaos or a larger circle of it. It's my way of saying the duck needs to back the hell up.
I do limit my contact with people who drain me. Or I engage them when I have the extra energy to give, regardless it is MY choice to do so or not and I do not have to explain myself when I choose not to.
It really comes down to maturity and knowing I do not have to engage in petty stuff, or people who leave me needing a cup of coffee to keep my day going.
I really appreciate your honest posts about this, .. the goal setting and chaos of coming to a point that I no longer need to engage in the chaos. That's a big part of my life right now getting into a new norm. Life is basically an on going circle of controlled chaos, I say controlled because how much I engage in it to create a bigger circle of chaos is always on me.
Currently listening to How Alanon Works and chapters 11 and 12 really hit home about this issue.
Hugs S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
"...dealing with some people and you know walks like a duck talks like a duck .. probably a big old duck. I tend to say .. I see a duck, call them out on their duckness as I don't need to be a part of their duckness. When I do that I tend to invite chaos or a larger circle of it. It's my way of saying the duck needs to back the hell up."
I am not sure why, but this gave me all sort of fits of laughter this morning!!! Probably the visual it gave me!! LOL!
I sure hope your Friday is free of ducks!!
&
__________________
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
The former roommate is very hgh finctionng at work. He gets paid very well. His home is almost at the point of being condemed the ceilings will probably fall in this winter
Many alcoholics includng the qualifier who just texted me in the early hours of the.morning. in particular he could turn on the charm like a spigot
Their appearance of chaos is not always apparent. The chaos nevertheless is inevitable. I have a full plate. Health oroblems, the COVID 19, civil unrest, long term plans. Why would I bring any more oroblems into my life
Yet I did throughout my entire adult life.
I nevet stopped and said that this is not sonething I want to do.
I kept adding to my plare. Iit has taken me a long time in al anon to say #enough#
I have to be realky careful who I bring in
I try to adoot a pleasant affect when I am out. I am fat better at deflecting when I need to. Far far better at it. My exoectations are set realky low. Getting to set low exoectations was extremely difficult. I would nit acceot that suggestion on any terms. I felt it was a set uo. So I went on having totally unrealistuc exoectatiins of people who.could not meet my needs for decades
Decades not years decades
Maresie
Thank you Bo
The good news is after having the entire year be one disaster after another things are starting to go right
I hope to bring my dog home soon. He shoukd have been home this minth but another disaster eruoted
I am looking forward!!!
You are very welcome. When I was "in it" -- I didn't even have any idea that I was "in it" -- because, one, I was so focused on the other person. Two, being focused on the other person seemed normal, applicable, and sometimes even necessary. Three, based upon the first two things, I didn't see anything was "wrong" -- so, no, I wasn't unhealthy. Everything was fine. It was the other person who had the problem(s). They were the one who was -- drinking, not eating well, normal, was not well, was sick, dysfunctional, was instigating arguments and fights, were aggressive, was confrontational, was burning bridges, was sad, depressed, angry, and so on and so on and so on -- and I was more than happy to "take their inventory" in my head. All those things -- I was just inventorying them in my head, analyzing them, criticizing them (in my head), pointing these things out in my head, and so on.
FOCUS ON YOURSELF. I live it.
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Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
Serenity: i have to say there are aome oeople who the only boundary is to run for the hills! Lol
My forner roommate is one of them!
I no longer have to live in the house that is falling down. However I still have to deal with him.
There are plenty of situations i would rather avoid. There is one company I would rather not work for. I will work 3 days fir them next week. I.need the money
I am working on being ready. Ready for a better life. I am going to go to a therapist next month. Thar will be a huge helo
I have made great strides in getting rid of stuff. I have a long way to go. Being ready is imperative. Ready for a better life.
This year has been gruelling and I felt out if control for most of it. Totally out of control
Then it turned into one ordeal after another.
I am feeling a lot better. That is good because I.hsve a long way to go!!
Maresie
"...dealing with some people and you know walks like a duck talks like a duck .. probably a big old duck. I tend to say .. I see a duck, call them out on their duckness as I don't need to be a part of their duckness. When I do that I tend to invite chaos or a larger circle of it. It's my way of saying the duck needs to back the hell up."
I am not sure why, but this gave me all sort of fits of laughter this morning!!! Probably the visual it gave me!! LOL!
I sure hope your Friday is free of ducks!!
&
I got ducks flying at me in all directions and I'm practicing with my clay shot at the moment. :) Actually, lots of shiny little hooks have been thrown and I am enjoying my ability to dodge them effectively. So while no direct duckness is happening in my life the ducks are doing their thing and flying in a formation.
Maresie,
Soooo many kudos to you and your choices. Life truly is messy because for me, I'm human and because I'm human I'm going to overthink and complicate the crap out of something. That's why life is messy. Alanon has shown me what my part is in the messy .. lol .. and I'm free to be as messy as I want to be. LOL.
You have tremendous maturity to know what works and doesn't work for you. My opinion of this is that you don't need anyone to tell you .. that you are doing a great job .. you are living it. Daily. That's again an opinion and observational. Surviving in the world today, every day is a victory. I admire you a great deal for continuing to put one foot in front of the other .. somedays that's a victory on its own. Many blessings and hugs, keep working on yourself and continuing to do the best you can. There are huge payoffs for that, it always rolls down into the rest of life. It really sounds like you are moving in the right direction and those again are daily victories to be celebrated. :)
Hugs S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Serenity: i have to say there are aome oeople who the only boundary is to run for the hills! Lol My forner roommate is one of them! I no longer have to live in the house that is falling down. However I still have to deal with him. There are plenty of situations i would rather avoid. There is one company I would rather not work for. I will work 3 days fir them next week. I.need the money I am working on being ready. Ready for a better life. I am going to go to a therapist next month. Thar will be a huge helo I have made great strides in getting rid of stuff. I have a long way to go. Being ready is imperative. Ready for a better life. This year has been gruelling and I felt out if control for most of it. Totally out of control Then it turned into one ordeal after another. I am feeling a lot better. That is good because I.hsve a long way to go!! Maresie
Nothing changes if nothing changes. It took me a while to learn that statement was about me. Not the other person. Focus on YOU. One always has options. Even if there aren't any, there was a process by which to get there. Learning is everywhere! Blind-spots exist in everyday life!
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
& 
