This is a very hard time for everyone. Look.what we have to go through to get to.a grocery store. That on its own is overwhelming and a really upsetting problem every time you go out the door. Then having to deal with someone who is completely self absorbed it is a tippimg point. My meditation teacher says in these #strange# times we have to watch our bandwidth. Certain people are big triggers for us. For me being around someone who is incredibly self absorbed is very triggering. My parents had to be pretty indifferent to my needs. They had no empathy whatsoever. Dealing with boundaries is a hard one. There are no hard and fast rules on when, what and how to specific time especially with someone we have to deal with. Sometimes they come easily sometimes they do not. Maybe it us to manuver those treacherous waters sometimes gently with ourselves. No one ever got better by hating themselves.

Hi Pnp, "My serenity is proportionate to my acceptance." This can be a hard one to work for me at times. I have a sibling who is active. Communication is always on his terms. Past experience has shown that he's manipulative and retaliatory if I don't respond or not in the manner he wants me to respond. His go to is instant gratification, getting his emotional needs met either by dumping on me or bragging to me knowing I am sitting with issues most people are at this time. I'm sure I don't need to point out the obvious but I will. He's acting self centered and selfish. "It's all about me." If I want emotional support from him in particular because of loving qualities and our connection as family, it's luck of the draw. I am taking a risk by engaging with him knowing it's 50/50 he will show up as supportive of me. It hurts my heart sometimes because I know and miss the person under the disease of alcoholism. I also realize that this could in fact be an illusion I hold onto and his disease may be progressing. So at this point in my response it's been a long written journey to the point I cared to initially make. Two people looking to the other for something they either will not or cannot give. I promised my mother I would do what I can to continue a relationship with him when she was gone. I've done that but not at my own expense. Right now I feel a bit of grief that I can't turn to him for support and comfort during this time. Logically, I get it but the little sister in me still has trouble accepting it. Because of the program, I can show her to the spot inside my spiritual home where she can wait for her higher power to come and offer the unconditional love she longs for. That's always there for me when i let go and let god. My expectations of others often leave me feeling lonely and unheard. No doubt those in my life feel the same where I'm concerned. None of can really understand the motivations and actions of other people. If I feel affected particularly by someone's words, if they sting for instance; this is clear indication of something that needs to be worked out in me. Often for me there's an imbalance in my attachment to that person, an emotional or physical attachment (sometimes both) wherein I give my power away to them and am no longer a separate person who knows the truth of who I am or trust my motivations. I don't have to take the bait and engage. I can use it as an opportunity to get over a hurdle and make recovery progress. When met with unkind words, insinuations again I may not feel anger, hurt, resentment, indignation with such intensity that my serenity is once again given away. I have the power to keep what I've got, maintain my serenity I don't have to show up for every fight I'm invited to. But if I'm still throwing punches in the air, something is begging to be worked out in me with the help of hp. Keep taking care of yourself. We can say a prayer for others that with the help of their hp whatever needs to be worked out in them will be and refocus on our own well-being. We can take a breath and choose to restart our day at any time and regain our serenity. ((hugs))) TT

 

 

TT and PnP I know it is okay with you both to look over your shoulders and reaffirm my own recovery thru your esh.  PnP forgiveness is a guarantee resentment eliminator and so very often automatic and fast.  My former sponsor taught me "the opposites" that when a certain emotion was causing me pain and problems, if I practiced the opposite  of that emotion I would get the opposite condition.  The opposite of resentment is forgiveness.  I wanted the opposite condition so bad I just without condition acted as if and then made it a part of my daily life.  I rarely suffer from resentment now and I like the power the practice has over me.  

TT The ending of your response to PnP starting with "we can say a prayer for others..." is habit for me..."A compulsion of the mind and practice of the spirit".  So much a program in itself.  Thanks also.

My hearing aids went on the blink yesterday and gives me just 25 - 30% performance now.  Grateful you both type loud.   LOL  (((((hugs))))) 

 

 

Practice, Practice, Practice.   (((hugs)))

 

Pap, thank you for sharing your feelings and perspective. I went through similar things, not just with my ex-wife, but with an ex-gf who I was in a long-term relationship with. Sometimes, out of nowhere, I would receive text messages that -- accused me of various things, offenses, etc. The texts were often stated as fact, but could not be further from the truth and reality...but, what bothered me tremendously was it was their truth. They so believed it and it was fact, yes, in their mind. Their distorted view and recollection of reality was so offensive to me. It bothered me a lot, threw me off, caused me to be off-balanced, off-kiltered, etc.

However, all of that was before recovery. When I was doing the work, and in the process of recovery, living a life of recovery, etc. -- I learned a great deal...ABOUT MYSELF. I had to look at me, my role, what impact these text messages were having on me. Now, I didn't analyze or try and figure out why they were sending me the text messages, I didn't try and analyze them, etc. Trying to figure out the alcoholic or unhealthy/dysfunctional person is an exercise in futility. In my experience, the more I tried to do that -- two things happened -- one, the more I did that the more I drove myself crazy; and two, the more I did that, the less time and effort I had available to focus on me and my recovery, and what I needed to do for me!

You can't apply logic to an illogical person and disease. You can't be rational in dealing with an irrational person and disease. I also learned the the person, the text messages, and replying, the engaging, was my drug! Wait, what? I was past the relationship and the person. It couldn't be my drug! But it was. If it weren't, then it wouldn't have anywhere near the impact it did on me. If it weren't, it wouldn't have any impact at all. I'd be able to view it for exactly what it was. But, I couldn't. That was before recovery.

I had to get off the drug. Period. I had to get better and get healthy, so that I couldn't reply, or if a reply was absolutely necessary, I would reply with a very limited scope and nothing else. Clear, concise, closed-ended, and that's it!

I learned to say "Thank you" AND NOTHING ELSE. Even if I made it closed-ended, and DID NOT invite a reply, I would still get one. OK, but that didn't mean I had to reply! I got a text from the ex during this pandemic, and I replied "Thank you" and that was it. It didn't matter that it wasn't one hundred percent applicable, but that's OK. When I got another unsolicited reply, I simply said "All the best" or "Good that all is well" and that's it. I can always say "I am sorry you feel that way" or "I am not going to engage and get into a back and forth with you" -- and be clear. Say what I mean, mean what I say, and don't say it mean. However, all of us realize that unless we say and do exactly what the alcoholic wants...we are always going to be wrong, we are always going to get some message of accusation, name-calling, conclusion drawing fault, blame, etc. That's OK...that's part of THEIR DISEASE. Our disease is the stinking thinking. Caring what they thing of us. Outward thinking in.

Think about sharing "I was dealing with some resentments, so I was going to not text back until I could get a handle on them." -- will probably be read as let's talk about this at some other time, let's dance at another time, etc. If that's what you want, OK. For me, no, that's not what I wanted. I wanted it done. I wanted off the drug! And in order to be off the drug, I wasn't going to communicate with, be friends with, hang out with, etc., the drug dealer!!! The drug dealer will always give you a free taste, to keep you engaged, to keep you in the dance!

Why do we get angry at what they say? Well, in my experience, once we look at ourselves, no paralysis by analysis, we can see our role, our contribution as to WHY w feel what we feel. It could be a people-pleasing thing, it could be co-dependency, it could be wanting to be loved, liked, etc., it could be validation or affirmation. At the same time, what is a very common trigger is "feeling wronged" by untruths, false accusations and convictions, etc. I was angry because the other person truly believed what they were saying -- about them being innocent and me being guilty -- being stated as fact. They had such a distorted, completely false recollection of history, what really happened, facts, etc. -- and they are simply lying to me, making me out to be the bad guy, and saying I did this, I did that, and so on and so on. A few more minutes and they would have be being the one who killed JFK and they would be stating that as matter of factly as today is Sunday! LOL.

When I got healthy, I was able to live in a space where no matter what the other person said, I was OK with it. I took it for nothing, and simply knew and understood where and from who it came from. Period. It didn't live rent-free in my head. It didn't impact me. Why do I care what an unhealthy, alcoholic, etc., thinks of me. I feel sorry for them. I have compassion for them. Their thinking, thought process, recollection, perspective, and so much more is completely distorted and corrupted! I felt sorry for them. I had compassion for them. I understood that they were not healthy and they were simply "doing what they do" -- and while I didn't focus on it, I understood all the reasons why!

For me, I had to get off the drug...so that I could get healthy. Then, AFTER I got better, healthy...when the drug was presented to me...I was able to ignore the invitation to try some...even just a taste! LOL.

(((PnP))) - so, so sorry! It is moments like 'this' that the pause really, really helps me. When I am able to Pause, Pray and then Proceed, I tend to do differently, feel differently and heal differently (faster). You are doing it - working recovery - and it shows. You spoke with your sponsor and reasoned things out. You posted here for more ESH and in the meanwhile, you've responded instead of reacted. Growth, growth and more growth which comes from practice, practice and more practice.

My experience in recovery is when I am faced with baggage from the past, I have choices always. My standard boundaries today suggest I will go out of my way to avoid unnecessary chaos/drama from anyone, loved or passive and I just don't do crazy/controlling any more. There was a time in my recovery where I used the block feature on my phone to enforce that boundary. I no longer have to. I can get a 'crazy-making blame/shame throwing text' from a family member or other and not take it personally. It's taken me a ton of practice/time to get here - I'm the program person that carried a Q-TIP in my pocket for a few YEARS to remind myself of this.

I've always, always been told to pray for another when I resent them or feel hurt/betrayed by them. Surprisingly enough, it does work to bring me peace and clarity. My old MO was to sit and worry about their words/actions, their perceptions, their truth, how different they saw things, etc. I just don't do that anymore as it's not healthy for me.

I have done all that's suggested and all that I know to clean up my side of the street. I've made my amends and continue with my living amends. I do my life much differently today and work hard to NOT judge others, cause pain or react - esp. when this disease is involved. I'm far from perfect but have made great progress! What I've discovered with my parental emergency is there will always be some people that no matter what you do, how you change/grow, they will see you as they choose to and/or how they remember you! I have found through this recent parental emergency that my oldest brother has chosen to not forgive me nor accept amends from past mistakes/pain I caused more than 35 years ago.

While hearing this caught me off-guard, my response was simple - his perceptions of me are none of my business and I don't understand why 'this' is coming up now when we're in the middle of a pandemic and our aging parents are extremely ill. Trust me when I say that a part of me, as the youngest and only girl, really, really wanted to JADE all across this darn country, yet my recovery kicked in, I stayed as present as possible and opted out of the drama/chaos of another. I believe deep down that no good can come from a confrontation, and there's no point in taking any other action - I have changed and do differently today, but others often do not.

I absolutely love that I learned in recovery that most times, the best response to an invitation to chaos/drama is no response at all. These kinds of situations have certainly given me opportunities to change up my boundaries and in some cases, redefine what relationship I want (if at all) with the other party. The healthier I get in my program, the easier it is to let go of unhealthy people, places and things. I hold on always to my believe that my HP really truly wants me happy, joyous and free and if that means setting some folks aside, so be it.

YOLO - You Only Live Once girl - choose joy, always and every time! We no longer have to accept the burden of other's thoughts, feelings or words. We can literally let them go and move forward with our life and our day. I never discount or judge another's perceptions, simply because that takes the focus from me. Instead, I focus on what our Serenity Prayer says and stay inside my own hula-hoop. You done good and you got this! (((Hugs)))

((pnp))) glad something in my response helped you. It was a good idea after reaching out to your sponsor to review your post on forgiveness and other posts here. Hp gave you direction :)  I hope you had a good rest of the day. TT

-- Edited by tiredtonite on Sunday 17th of May 2020 08:52:50 PM

Years ago when I was on  this board alot I remember something another poster said. I am paraphrasing because I do not remember word for word.She said that alcoholics are emotional vampires.They get some kind of  'fix' from getting us upset.The more upset we get,the more energy they draw from it.In my experience it seems that after he gets me all riled up, he feels better, calms down and watches tv or something.Then I look like the crazy one and the argument appears to be all  my fault..

Anyone ever hear of this?

Iris

Thank you, ((Jerry)) so grateful for your es&h at this board. If you weren't making a joke and do have hearing aids, I hope the issue is resolved. But when thinking of the joke you made about typing loudly (very funny, incidentally), I thought of that funny thing they say in the other program and LOL. Was told they say take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth. We can be grateful that Alanon is a gentle program right? :) TT

I am most certainly aware of how oernicious alcoholism is. Twenty years ago I met my now former roommate. At that time he relished having his own home. He was always arranging for carpet cleaning and luxuriating in his space. Of course I did not pay attention then to all the red flags that said he was most certainly an alcoholic. 20 years later he has let really necessary repairs go on his house. No room for even the most basic maintenance. His relationship with this one womannwho most certainly supported him is #on hold#. Therefore he is pretty lost in terms of what to do next. I have my own issues including currently physical health issues. Therefore I am not at liberty anymore to do much else. I certainly had invitations to step in but I chose not to. That for me us recovery. For once my own well being including my physical survival is based on trying to take care of my own needs. Alcoholics seem to have a hard time negotiating that other people have any needs. The roommate most certainly did. The qualifier certainly did.