P... the word or phrase that came into my mind, as I read through was "adult is a verb". I appreciated the share enormously. Our youngest two are into their 30's now, but I relate 100% to your share. But the adulting is what we do, basically, inside of the rooms, and here we are heard and listened to. It is humbling and privilege to be a part of this. This week we have been talking here about sponsors... ...but the same does apply to our fellow members, sister and brothers. Sometimes i think I learn through osmosis, inside of Alanon.  ...

Hi Pnp,

I'm glad you shared how you're processing this financial revelation concerning your son. Our program is a simple one that speaking for myself, I can sometimes complicate. I can worry at times about things that never come to fruition. I can project the past onto the present. That leads to obsession, being controlled by a singular thought typically that isn't in the best interest of my serenity or well being. That person, place or thing then becomes my higher power and I am hostage to fear based racing thoughts. 

What I've noticed from reading your posts about your relationship with your son is that you have a very good relationship with him. I noticed a lot of very open communication about just about everything. I may be wrong but from what I've read I sense there is real trust between you. I think with any of our loved ones all we can offer is our availability to "talk to each other, reason things out with one another." With that said, we can't make someone else willing to be willing if they've changed their mind, thrown a rock in the path and are blocking us. This is especially the time when I pray and ask my higher power for wisdom concerning the next right action. This usually works reasonably well for me. I know because I often feel more serene, more aware of how inadequate my will is as compared to my hp's will for me. It's a way of sitting with feelings and letting them pass through me. I can admit my fears to my hp and my fears for those I love and ask for help.  I tend to like the 3rd step prayer because it helps me to better see an alignment between my hp's will for me and my own. Sometimes my mind can be so off to the races that I need instructions literally. 

I know that I have boundaries in place and sometimes have to adjust them boundaries according to how I'm feeling. It's my life and my right do so. Better safe than sorry. I don't JADE. If a decision affects someone else, simply saying that this is something I gave thought and decided is respectfully letting them know in case they need to put something in place concerning themself. I don't need to engage in a back of forth tug of war of wills.

I need to be very mindful of codependency, simbiotic relationships. Is the interdependence healthy? This is where putting Alanon into practice becomes so important. In stressful times in particular close relationships, I tend to need to identify what I'm really feeling. Love, pity and enmeshment can become a ball of confusion. I learned a long time ago in this program that my boundaries need to be the same no matter what my relationship to the other person. This can be very difficult to adhere to at times but for myself anyway, my the measure of serenity and health are sometimes connected to my ability to say what I mean, mean what I say and not saying it mean. I want to keep in mind that such practices aren't selfish, they're self preservation.

Thanks for sharing (((pnp)))) I hope you have a good day today and will do something especially nurturing for yourself. TT

 

Hi, PnP, I can relate very much to your dilemma. I too have kids -- and one in particular -- that I worry about, that have anxiety to various degrees, and I know the panic and worry. I know how it feels to see that he has spent all his money, and on things we don't believe are of value. When I see them drink, even a tiny bit, I want to remind them what alcohol did to their father -- but I also know they saw it up close and they do know. I have slipped into lecturing, even when I know it won't do any good. I try one day at a time to not do that. I heard a line recently, that was "when we give our children advice, they take it as criticism" -- and that rings true for me.

What works for me is to pause, to recite the serenity prayer, to quietly "be there" for them so they will know they can come to me and be open with me and I will not lash out at them, I will just listen. I learned that pro-actively giving them money to solve their problem did not make them feel better. It was to fix my feelings, which it did not do.

PnP, you are a great mom! You are doing all the next right things -- contacting your sponsor, recognizing your motives. I totally understand reacting based on how someone else behaved in the past. I have slipped down that slope too, at times.

This is a rough patch, but I believe you will come through it stronger because you are walking with the program beside you.

(((PnP))) - oh girl...I am so, so sorry for the worry, anxiety, etc. that comes with parenting. It's there for all parents, no matter IF the disease of addiction/alcoholism is present. I have 2 boys, now 27 and 25. For as long as I have been @ MIP, we'e had starts/stops/relapses/chaos/calm/etc. I rarely bring them 'here' simply because Al-Anon is supposed to be about me - me on my journey to be the best version of me no matter what anyone (including those I gave birth to) are doing, saying, etc.

It's so very hard for a parent to let go of a child. Again, this applies to all parents - no matter if there is disease floating around the family tree. I could spend pages/chapters telling you what did not work out well here. I'd rather share what happened with the last time my youngest returned home. He just moved out 3/1 after being here for a year +.

I think this will be the most helpful experience simply because I did things different than before. I also had boundaries. I also charged him rent. We didn't have the pandemic so that's been 'his' to deal with since he moved out. He did test boundaries and we did discuss moving out because of it. He felt he deserved notice; I disagreed (in my mind) yet compromised. We negotiated 'other' things along the way.

What was better this time? I viewed him as a roommate instead of my child. I had no expectations beyond that. I didn't ask for help, special time, nothing of the sorts. We both went into this knowing this was his last chance to be here, at his family home and that he really was in the driver's seat on how he left - friend or foe. Every other time, it was FOE and he burnt bridges - big time.

Anytime I wanted to ask probing questions, I paused and opted out. Each time, my motives were about me, my disease, my past, my anxiety, etc. Even though he has been in numerous treatment centers, jail, prison, homeless, etc. I kept my fears, thoughts, etc. to my self. For unknown reasons, perhaps (hopefully) because I stayed on my side of the street and allowed him to succeed/fail as an adult, when he did fall hard and relapse with H, he asked for help. This was new behavior for both of us, and I had to swallow that mom part of me that wanted to cry, scream, faint, collapse, and be of service any way I knew how.

As our program tells us, the examples we set matter. Detaching with love vs. with indifference/hate mattered big with my son. He knew that I would not support, encourage, enable any illegal/immoral behavior - here at my home or beyond my home. In spite of the many, many roommate issues we had (he's a slob, I'm a germaphobe/neat freak was one of the biggest) I felt I had no say in how he spent his money so long as I got what he owed me. There were times in the past where I too had suspended rent because of circumstances. I will never do that again as part of being an adult is figuring out who to pay, when to pay, how to pay with limited resources.

You are a good mom! He's a good son. He will be perfectly imperfect, just as designed. Even IF all the signs were pointed to experimenting with mood/mind altering substances, as happened here in the early days, there was nothing I could say/do that would change their journey. My son moved out with money in the bank, an apartment with a roommate and a really good job - all with me just being a roommate vs. a parent with advice, etc.

What my sponsor did suggest was making sure I told him I loved him and was proud of him often because who he is today (not sober) is way better than before. He has depression and anxiety and he flips/flops back/forth between formal medication and self-medication. He's a bright boy, and knows all the risks. If I had the power, there's no doubt I would change parts of his journey, but I don't and can't.

I continue to practice I statements with him - I am worried about you, are you doing OK? When he suggests he's fine and I should not worry, I always respond with a mother's job is to worry. What I need to be on guard for is to not obsessively worry! It is my job as a parent to keep them alive to 18 and make sure they know how to handle life for when I'm gone. I have met or exceeded my expectations and now consider myself a servant WHEN asked. No young person wants unsolicited free advice from a parent.

Seek to understand helps me also. When I was his age, I was just getting sober. In spite of the chaos/near death experiences of my own, and the trouble with the law I was facing, I still didn't think 'old people' had anything of value to add to my life. I desperately wanted to find my way on my own and resented unsolicited advice from my parents, and most all 'old people'.

I love program in action and that's what I see! Nobody is a perfect parent with a perfect child or a perfect parenting plan or perfect program. Everyone is negatively affected in some way/shape/form by this pandemic and there's no manual for any of 'this' - parenting, pandemic, etc. My life goes best when I focus on One Day at a Time, and leave tomorrow where it sits. I can't tell you how many times I called my sponsor wondering if my child would live to see tomorrow, and she's bring me back over and over again to it's Tuesday, 2:05pm, and you're on the phone with me and he's .....

With time in recovery, I can pause and consider what my motives and real fear is about. Most of the time, it comes down to a very, simple thing - I want you to be happy, healthy and whole -- in other words, I am worried about you, are you OK?

(((Hugs))) - trust your program and progress! You got this even if you wonder!

PaP, again, I completely agree with you regarding the "advice" topic. Not getting answers, and not knowing what to do, under the guise of "not giving advice" is very frustrating. The blanket "go to meetings" answer is not an end-all and cure-all for someone who is struggling right now so to speak. Crisis management can be critical. A person doesn't have to be told what to do, but they can be given others' experience and what worked for them. This in my opinion is not a forum for a simple go to meetings answer, but not giving advice as a blanket defense can certainly short-change people -- especially the beginner. Share experience, strength, hope, etc. -- here, in this forum -- and that helps people, and yes, send them to face to face meetings for the conference approved, official, formal alanon program.

That said, PaP, I went through much of the same with a step-son. There is our program, and there is also being a parent. Can the program help being a parent? Absolutely!!! Without question. But, there is also, being a parent. The program doesn't do it all. I agree with your boundary about the smoking/vaping and drugs in your house. Do people ever think about the potential liability of -- having drugs discovered in our home? Helping him find information about the consequences of drugs is another conversation. I view that as very different than the boundaries. Now, as far as a child's predisposition to addiction -- again, I view that as a different conversation, having nothing to do with boundaries, but certainly an aspect of this that has to be considered. Is that a conversation to have with a child? Yes. Is it a repeating, ongoing, time and time again conversation? Well, that's you call. My experience, my program -- no, it is not.

As far as the present day and the other night -- it's a very fluid, ebb and flow, living, breathing, etc., world when you have an adult/young adult child who lives in the home. You have rules, boundaries etc. -- but you don't control his monies. You provide food, but you can't "feed" him if he doesn't want to eat. Get my point? Yet here, you were, after the fact, questioning why he did, didn't, etc., with regard to his money. However, you "let go" and let him feel the consequences of his own actions...and tried to be supportive, and comforting, while he was suffering a panic/anxiety attack. That's great. That's what our program shows us...how to be there for someone in a healthy and supportive way...but still allow them to feel the consequences of their own actions. That's alanon!!!

So, you did what was appropriate, called for, healthy, etc. -- when you said OK, well, I am sorry you no longer have money. You will have to wait until you get your unemployment I guess." -- and then you went to bed. Backed off? Well, that's where I start looking at my motives. You see, I got to a place where I completely accepted that my step-son was using drugs. I didn't say a word. We were well past that. I found recovery and was healthy. It was sad, I was worried, I didn't like, and more -- but none of that consumed me. Now, when he got arrested and wanted me to find and pay for an attorney, I said no. Did I get blamed that his charges and punishment was worse because he got stuck with a public defender rather than a high-priced legal shark? Of course I did. That's what alcoholics/addicts do. Was he angry at me? Sure. But, that's what alcoholics/addicts do, they get angry at everyone else, blame, use guilt, manipulation, and everything else they can to be in denial and to deflect away from themselves. Did he yell and scream at me? Absolutely. But I was OK with that. Absolutely at peace and OK. Why and how was I OK? Because I worked my butt off being in the rooms of alanon for over a quarter of a century and I did the work!!! Every single day!!! I didn't just show up for meetings. I did the work. I didn't just do readings. I did the work. I didn't just let go and let God. I did the work. I didn't just find a sponsor. I did the work. I worked my butt off...because getting better, getting healthy, MAKING CHANGES from what I was doing before, getting the pain to stop, getting everything that was going on to stop...WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD TO ME. So, I did it. It worked. It wasn't me. It was alanon and the work I did...and it worked for me! 90 in 90? I did 180 in 90! I did more than 180 in 90. I went to a meeting a day, for over one year! I spoke to my sponsor, yes, every day, but there were days where I spoke to him many times a day! That man saved my life. 

I lived a wonderful life...independent of the fact that my step-son became an addict. I did everything I could...within reason, and in healthy and supportive way...a way that was healthy for me. Remember, I found recovery for the years where I did everything I possibly could no matter what. It didn't work, it never does, and I went crazy and my life became unmanageable and miserable. I was in massive pain. I did the work. I found recovery. I got better. I got healthy.

This is not a passive program. It is a program where people have to do work. It is a program of change -- making change -- if you don't make change, then nothing changes if nothing changes. And, you'll make change when you are ready. People always say acceptance and that they get it. Sure, but it doesn't mean you have to accept unacceptable behavior, or not have boundaries, or wait for someone else to stop doing what they are doing, or wait for someone else to change. No, you can CHANGE. And if a person doesn't they don't.

So, my "advice" -- accept, surrender, and let go...but do so within the confines of focusing on YOU and MAKING CHANGES...in your thinking, acting, reacting, behavior, mindset, perspective, and more. 

Who you are does not have to come with reasons why -- and if you are healthy, working your program, following your program and recovery -- then he will not see the old feelings, behaviors, reactions, etc., as being wrong and unjustly directed toward him. Even if he does...that's OK!!! It's what alcoholics/addicts do. You are trying to apply logic to an illogical person. You are trying to apply logic to an illogical situation. At some point -- he will blame you anyway! And that's OK too! Remember, with an alcoholic/addict...no matter what you do...it's never enough!!!

So, reality, one person is going to live in and be in denial...it's either going to be you or him. 

Kicking him out is not reality right now. You are numerous steps ahead of yourself. Keep your head where your feet are. Work with your sponsor on this...daily!!! Because it is a day to day thing. It is life. Your life.

You should be troubled by the feeling that you can't trust him in your house. So, what do you do...time to work the program. It's about YOU. Accept, surrender, let go, and those feelings will disappear.

So, that is my advice...I mean wisdom...I mean experience...Take what you like and leave the rest.

-- Edited by Bo on Tuesday 14th of April 2020 04:13:00 PM

Well, I sat with this for awhile. I read all your shares, and I so appreciate your views and experience - and if no experience, I received the warmth of friendship from some just offering support!
THANK YOU

I am so grateful I have a program today that helps me to make better decisions... you know the old saying, "When we know better, we do better!" So true. I am grateful that I had the tools, and the willingness to use those tools. By initiating The Pause, I was able to come at this from a different angle, not one of REACTION. By pausing, I was able to read the fine ESH from my friends here, and really think about what my sponsor said to me.

The facts: I was triggered, and I went immediately to "old behaviors." That is what stole my serenity. Not anything my son did. Like Iamhere spoke, it WAS all about me. My fears.

Interestingly enough, 3 days after I wrote this and read all of your shares, my son and I had a "car discussion" coming home from getting take-out from our favorite local place. What triggered that discussion was seeing one of our local homeless alcoholics sitting on a corner. I had mentioned about one of them I had not seen in awhile, and I had expressed that I had hoped the COVID didn't get him. Within that discussion, I got some insight on how my son views alcohol and other addictive drugs. I knew that he was excluding weed (he can give me studies and studies on how it's not addictive - BTDT), and for once I didn't try to be "right" or heard. I just listened. Did what he said give me any peace? A little... I mean no one ever sets out to be addicted, right? So for what it was worth, some peace. But in the end, I was able to voice my fears in relation to my house/personal space and how I felt  "addicted people" can violate that... how I just didn't want to live in that space anymore. He seemed to take it in and understood my POV... all without naming/blaming him or his choices.

I believe because I was able to Pause, my HP worked for me and my benefit. To borrow Jerry's language of origin; Mahalo Akuna!

Mahalo MIP!

&

Thanks for the update pnp. Sounds like lines of communication with your son continue to be very good. The love is there and each of you is able to speak your minds without being should on. (((hugs)) TT

I have sat with not saying anything for 3 minths staying wuth ny friend . I am shocked at his deterioration I say nothing nada not one peep I have had my own struggkes with unemployment. In.March I was unemoloyed for a few weeks. In 2008.I was unemployed long term for more than 2 years. I worked part time through that Getting to the point where I say nothing has been very hard for ne Lettimg other people fall down is very hard for us. When I enabled oeople. When I rescued them I really did want to help I also did not want to be alone Making my own plans has been hard But one thing I am clear on is that I cannot. change the alcoholic I ser limits these days on how they will affect me Now the focus of my life is #me# I went through a lot of hardship.staying herr with ny friend I believe it was all about being able to.hold to those limits I never intend to do another rennovation in an apartment complex again. I.am looking to keave the current complex in time. I have much work to.do . These days that work does not inckude fiximg anyone but myself Just me Mareshe

What I got from your post is that you're working it one day at a time offering loving support rather than losing yourself to enmeshment. What I like about this board is that we support one another, keep learning with one another and shape our own Alanon program to what works best for our own life. That's what I see in your interactions with your son. I like that our program is one of suggestions and not rules. It gives each of us the freedom to take what we like and leave the rest, be responsible for our own choices yet feel safe to admit when we feel a bit shaky and need help. ((((hugs)) TT