The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
The material presentedhere is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.
While this says Alanon Family Group it is not WSO approved, nor would I participate if it was. I am stating how I feel. I am going to say this is not a safe place to express anymore without having judgment, a drum beaten regarding you HAVE to's. It is disappointing as I have been here for a LOT of years and while I have not attended alanon meetings consistently since moving to TX, I do rely on this board and its members to have loving support as well as guidance.
That thread regarding the sig other abuse was troubling towards the end for me.
Alanon as well as crisis groups push safety first and as a group we do NOT know what is happening on the inside of those situations, because I'm not a fly on the wall as to the level of abuse that happens, NOR should ANYONE be pushing. Regardless if the person stays or goes .. SAFETY for those inside the house living in that nightmare and it is a nightmare is what is a given. People come here frightened, scared to say what is in their hearts because if they want to be told what to do they can get that from their loved ones/friends or whatever on a face to face basis.
This has been a very troubling issue that I have been observing for a while now. So yes, I believe that Alanon is a great program and it works .. this is an exchange of IDEAS while making sure it is a SAFE place to share. I don't believe that John would want it any other way if he were still with us.
S
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Hi Serenity--
You have been missed.
I got on here today to post on "In Praise of the Board as John Designed it. This seems as good a place as any to post my thoughts.
Several years ago a member of the board whom I admired posted quotes from Eckhardt Tolle. I had never heard of him, and the quotes resonated with me and I bought The Power of Now and Hubs and I would take turns reading it aloud. It helped us, and I mentioned it to our daughter. Over the years she would quote him to me sometimes.
As I've said before, I'm a sampler..and moved on to other things. Then this Fall Daughter said that she had listened to PoN five times while driving to orchestra gigs and was just about through with the past. And I could feel a softening towards me.
I got the book out and reread it and found the post I had printed out years ago. And I mentioned it to an email friend that I've known for a long time. And she called me today to say the Kindle version she had ordered had come in and she read two pages and new she had to buy a hard copy and study and make notes. Some of that is the phenomenon known as "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear." And some of it is just the inclusiveness of this board helping people.
Bless you--Bless us all. And Bless John for doing it the way he did.
Temple
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It's easy to be graceful until someone steals your cornbread. --Gray Charles
(((Serenity))) - thank you for your post and for sharing what's on your mind and in your heart. I too can agree that the board feels less safe than in the past. I have come here, in crisis, with a jumbled mind, in the past and just let it flow freely. Others shared support, love, concern and ESH if they had any! It was a huge part of my mental sanity in moments and days where I could not get to a meeting or there wasn't a meeting (odd times day/night).
I no longer post topics because I have been instructed what to do. If the suggestions/advice were married in a post that actually shared ESH, it would probably feel safer. However, when it's just a 'blast' without ESH or support/concern, it does feel controlling, manipulative and unsafe.
I also felt uncomfortable with the thread you mention. I never want anyone who lands here to feel attacked or unsafe. I am glad you came back to share why you've stopped participating as you are not alone. I know others who are in read-only mode for the same reason(s). My personal approach is to share what I can, when I can and to skip/ignore posts that don't move me to post. I remind myself daily and more often at times that I am powerless over other people, places and things. I have hope that MIP will continue to grow, change and improve, one day at a time.
I hear you, and hope you return to posting as your program and journey inspire me and others. I do believe that those who hit their bottom can and will recover if they embrace our program and take what is liked while leaving the rest.
(((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
That post was disappointing and troubling for a lot of us, but I really do think it is the exception, not the rule.
I don't post here nearly as often as in the past, but overall I think MIP follows the old 90/10 rule.... At least 90% of the time, the board is what we all hope/strive for - encouraging, sharing ES&H, and listening to each other.
We ALL (me included) need to remember that we are all "Miracles in Progress", and no single one of us is smarter than the next person, so that we don't have the authority to advise and direct. I have caught myself doing that in the past, and I try hard to deal with this "God complex" that seems tied to my own thoughts, will, experiences, and belief systems.
One of THE biggest things I learned in my Al-Anon program, is that I am capable of learning from each and everyone that I interact with.
Toby Rice Drews' books (Getting Them Sober series) taught me so much, including the awareness of even such things as telling someone they are "strong" - i.e. for leaving - Toby says that this insinuates that therefore one is "weak" for not leaving, which of course is NOT the case....
Hugs
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Thanks guys and gals .. Temple.. I'm hoping to get a chance to either download on auditable to listen to the book you spoke of. I like to have things going in the background.
IAM .. I really try on to take what I like and leave the rest after my last post .. not so much. No one needs to be kicked while they are down or told they obviously don't want to get "well". I will refrain for a bit unless I see something like that recent post to say .. not ok. I feel the good orderly direction as it may, don't need more chatter at the moment. I do reach out where I feel I have life experience to share. Sometimes I just need to rattle however I have found a different outlet at the moment.
Tom .. I meant to call you out in my post .. lol .. if not for you I would have never read Getting Them Sober .. I value that book a great deal and have purchased it to share with others that share their struggles. Thank you .. thank you .. thank you for providing a steady presence here. That's not a book I would have heard about from an alanon group. What a loss that would have been for me. I need to reread.
Yes .. no one has all the answers and it would be presumptuous and pompous to think other wise. I don't care what background someone has or doesn't have.
Anyways .. I value this page because I can go back to old posts and look at where I was .. where I have been .. what's next on my healing journey. We have lost some great voices over the last few years and that feels sad to me. :/
**I needed to edit my post because autocorrect on my phone took over and as far as I'm concerned autocorrect is the devil. LOL. It says what it thinks I mean not what I mean. **
-- Edited by SerenityRUS on Friday 3rd of January 2020 04:10:00 PM
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I hesitate to contribute to this thread as I don't want to come across as being on a mission where I'm placing personalities before principles.
While I agree in principle about what was said in the other thread, and that abuse is so, so very serious, I can only empathize with the OP - I was not in a physically abusive relationship, but it was certainly emotionally abusive, and I would have felt pretty torn down and lost if a stranger told me to act on something I clearly wasn't ready for. Fear paralyzes us and it was only through working the steps in this program did I finally start to edge fear out and start making decisions that were for my well-being. But I had to learn it. I can guarantee if I'd acted before I was ready I would have doubted myself and would likely have ended up in the same situation with just a different face.
I DO pray for the OP's safety, however. And I do hope she feels ready to take the steps necessary to ensure her physical safety. I'm perfectly fine that the abuse hotline was provided to her.
I agree with Tom, in the 90/10 observation. The majority of what's posted here I find helpful and supportive. Just occasionally our human nature and our clear differences arise and it can get kind of messy.
That thread in particular had me exercising my need to "be right" against my desires to let God do the necessary work without any further chit-chat and typing from me.
I hope everyone continues to contribute, but of course, only if you feel safe.
And a gentle reminder to all - myself included. We came to Al-Anon because we're sick and affected by the disease of alcoholism. And, I feel, that just like an alcoholic, Al-Anons are not cured simply because we're attending to our program, nor by our length of time in it. Our sick behaviors can and will pop up at any given time - even during meetings or in other support group formats.
Oops! Forgot to post as an aside - I enjoy the flexibility this group offers, as well, and hearing about literature outside of our CAL.
Echart Tolle played a really huge part in helping me to learn to be present with his other title "A New Earth". I remember reading that book the first time in my earlier years in Al-Anon, thinking "I'm FINALLY learning how to live!!"
I appreciate your candor .. I'm not just talking about this particular post it was the one that disturbed me to the point that I felt the need to say something at this point to address the issue that has been on my mind for many months. I didn't have the words to articulate what I was feeling in the moment or the level of discomfort I have been feeling for a while. I have shared my deeper thoughts on the matter with the powers that be, I realize that it's not going to change. It will be up to me if I choose to post publicly or privately. I was heard and that's what is important to me.
Yes, you are 100% correct on any given day I can be as sick as I was the pre-alanon. I didn't come to my own twisted up thinking overnight, so I wouldn't expect anyone else to get better immediately either. That's really my point for anyone who is a newcomer to this, the bottom that brought them here.
The correct thing to do is give the DV#, I don't agree with some of what has taken place recently. I think that's where I need to stop my thoughts as I know what I want to say, however I don't know if anything productive would come from verbalizing my thoughts completely. I'm in the middle of learning when to stop talking .. LOL.
Thank you for your response, I just needed to say what was on my mind in the moment and I miss some of our long-timers that have been gone longer than most would remember. They had a way of sorting things out.
S
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I understand your feelings. Whether here or at face to face meetings, this definitely is a take what you like and leave the rest program. I'd really like to adjust everyone else to my liking lol who wouldn't. I have no idea of the motivations of others when they respond here. What I do know is that it's sickness that got me here - my own. When I want a consistently supportive response, I typically will be in touch privately with a few reliable program people as well as other friends outside the program. With that said, I'm an imperfect person and one triggered by people, places and things myself. A slip in my own program is to turn others into personal projects that "need my fixing." Although this isn't a WSO approved board, I like to remember the the principles of Alanon to the best of my ability when responding here. The board does say Alanon at the top of it not self help group or something else. I love the program for the most part and we do suggest it to first time posters here. Like you, I've been coming here a long time. It helps me to work on my own defects especially. It helps me feel less alone and supported. It also allows me to give what I have. Some days that looks better on the screen than others. It's simply doesn't matter because unlike other outer worldly places, here I don't have to nail it every time to be accepted and loved. Thank hp! I read some responses that cause me to react at times. I agree, no one is an authority on the life of another as you mentioned serenityrus. Insensitivity is a bigger issue for me. This is the internet and it's really difficult to make that determination at times. Ultimately, if something posted here bothers me, it's hp tapping me about something that needs working out in me. I like the openness to discuss things here and and to be able to admit we're triggered by others in the program just as much as we are by some non program people. That's life huh. It's definitely a take what you like and leave the rest journey. I doubt any of us could say that there's no one who wishes we'd just shut up lol. Detachment is such an excellent tool. It releases me from the pain of involvement and adjusts my focus back to myself. If I truly believe in a higher power, I know I am not powerful enough to bring about a change in anyone as far as actions they choose. Does that mean I should just dismiss an opportunity to respond in a loving supportive and non judgmental way in my day to day interactions? It's a win/win as I see it - positive energy. As far as John, I knew him from the very beginning and like the rest of us he had his flaws. He created the site and I'm grateful but I think it will continue to evolve as its meant to. He was but one program member and he himself in his humanness was responsible for a few controversial posts and decisions. It's no secret that he liked to have his way. This doesn't diminish in any way his goodness as a person. But I think MIP continues because of the quality of the participation here. There has been a share of drama from time to time but I choose to accept that in myself and others as growing pains. We're in 12 programs trying to get healthier. I appreciate your insights about this board and participation. I think it's good to be reminded that although hp has all power over the lives of myself and others, that leading with loving support when responding to others is important. My goal has been and continues to be supporting another's right to make their own choices without prejudice, without projecting my experience onto theirs. They are their own person with their own hp. Thanks for your thoughts and insights about postings here. I value your es&h as I do everyone's who comes here. There always seems to be some nugget some message for me even in seemingly unlikely postings. I know this is my hp nudging me. I hope you keep coming back to share here. I will be here continuing to make progress odaat. Happy new year. ((hugs))) TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
I hear ya SerentiyRUS. I appreciate you having the courage to post about it.
It is the "Exchange of Ideas" aspect of this site that I love so dearly.
&
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"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
An evolving site I can deal with .. a dogmatic one I can't. That's kind of what it comes down to for me.
It is the "Exchange of Ideas" aspect of this site that I love so dearly.
This is exactly my point, which brings me back to my original quote .. No one should ever be dismissed with an alanon quip when it comes to for them a desperate situation ..
The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Before John died I told him how much his contribution to other people's recoveries meant to me. I also stated that unlike so many alcoholics he did not leave a mess behind. One of the principle things he was concerned with was the continuation of his work. That was incredibly noble ause he was very sick. He was patient and courageous to the end. I have seen a lot if people die because I was really sick as a child. Not too many of them made such an effort to tie up their affairs as they died. He did and that was a real inspiration to me.
I live and work around active alcoholics every day. Their selfishness and sense of entitlement are very difficult to deal with even with a solid recovery background
Sometimes it can be very very draining
John was an incredible success story he turned a virulent addiction, which most certainly shortened his life. into a life of service and made a huge contribution to many people's recoveries
I feel the same way about our beloved founder Lois. Lois certainly had a very challenging life and an incredibly challenging narriate despite her husband's status. . Nevertheless the legacy that Lois left behind was and us responsible for the recovery and sanity of many members worldwide. What an incredible achievement.
I want to take this opportunity to say as flawed as this program is I have gained a great deal from it. My recovery is no longer detoured by someone disagreeing with me
I.can agree to disagree.
I most certainly am capable of disagreeing with others who hqce the i.u r own thoughts about abuse I am also very clear that we all have our feelings and reactions to pain and suffering. Sometimes I have to avoid certain people when they are acting out because it is just too painful to be around.
I believe new members can learn from disagreements and problems within a group. I also believe that the inherent good and passion for helping others that founded this program will always prevail.
Maresie
I find that often if I will let it happen another old timer will step up and respond and provide more resolution for me and others. Mahalo Maresie. ((((hugs))))
I really appreciate all the discussion here. Many thoughtful responses.
One thing I did think was that even though this is not an officially recognized Al-Anon board, it bears the name Al-Anon all the same and is often the first introduction many people have to Al-Anon. Knowing that, I know for myself, anyhow, that I should ask myself when posting anything here is "Is this the impression I want a newcomer to have about Al-Anon? Do I want people to feel safe? Do I want people to know they're supported? Do I want them to know there's help and they're not alone?"
The THINK acronym comes up for me... before I say something, ask myself, is it True, is it Helpful, is it Inspiring, is it Necessary, is it Kind?
Aloha, that is SOOOOOO awesome. I agree with every single sentiment of your post.
My wise old sponsor used to remind me - again and again - "what is my part", and it helped me take ownership of MY portion of what I was dealing with, etc...
So for the "health of MIP", I do try to look internally before responding, asking myself if I have anything to offer the particular post, and am I offering them encouragement & EH&S, or am I offering them advice..... It works for me (MOST of the time, lol)
Thanks
Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
This has been quite the interesting thread to follow. I know for myself, I found myself taken aback by the amount of "shoulds" on MIP in the past several months. I also have tried to take what I like and leave the rest and/or place principals above personalities when it seems to be the exception and not the rule. However, I am glad that Serenity brought it up.....it certainly has stirred a lot of discussion and brought to light checking motives and the real purpose of Alanon..Experience Strength Hope for all. Although we ask for advice....what we are looking for is what has worked for others? What can I try? Has anyone experienced this?, etc. All are well-intentioned shares, but the "shoulds" and "you musts" are not what we are about. All said, I am glad MIP exists and hope it continues to do so.
I agree with David, its good to be able to address issues like you would be able to in a meeting at a group conscious meeting.
I feel now, after going through a period where I was very rigid in my recovery and judgmental in terms of others recovery, I now feel, every reaction I have to anyone else's post or view is saying something to me about me and I think that why I hear in Alanon 'keep your eyes on you and off other.'
I read here often, share less but Im trying to listen more, I feel a shift in my recovery, a calming down, less self righteousness and rigidity and so I feel we can use this forum as we wish in terms of as long as our motives are good, its okay to say what we say in the way we say it. It wont always be correct Alanon response if there is such a thing. It will be the best we have at that time. I personally feel that although not conference approved, it is alanon, the steps, the slogans, the language of Alanon is spoken here and new comers are getting the best Alanon the members here can give them.
I know Alanon when i hear it or see it or read it. Im immersed in it, I go to meetings, I work the steps, I sponsor and have a sponsee, I read the literature daily, I listen to podcasts. Alanon is my life my daily priority. Not because im any better than anyone else and in fact mainly due to my shortcoming of obsession but also because I have a son who is active in this horrendous disease and the disease itself is at the forefront of my life almost daily on some level so this program, Alanon is my lifeline.
I think we are all here for different reasons and some posts have little Alanon in them, ie the problem and the solutions offered, sometimes its more like chatting to friends and isnt Alanon, its more like the chats after the meeting, which of course has value. I personally dont care one way or another and chose not to really have much to say unless it is clearly Alanon.
I also feel there is a place for that here, folk like you Serenity have made friends with others after all these years and bonds and connections have been made and that is fantastic. However, sometimes the responses and replys to your posts are Alanon responses and replys, quite naturally, it is Alanon, but its taken out of context. I feel you have felt attacked at times (myself included) by those offering you Alanon suggestions. I apologise for that, I would never want to upset or offend you, I feel like I know you and your journey and i love how openly and honestly you share your life, its wonderful but Alanon suggestions which arent always fluffy and sweet, sometimes they are tough love replys and are always going to be here as they should be in my own opinion. Its like having a whole range of friends, some will agree with you about things, some will be great listeners and let you vent, some will try to get you to see things differently and some will give you a kick up the backside. They all care, they are all offering their love.
I think this is a great forum, the best I've came across, Its mostly kind, mostly generous, mostly Alanon lol. I think well done is in order.x
Great thread, examining how we are carrying the message of Al-anon on the internet.
...always bringing the focus back to Al-Anon basic principles...
...listening for spiritual principles or Higher Power's guidance... as filtered through the shares...
...separating our emotions from facts... principles from personalities...
Sharing as equals... Everyone having Al-Anon's best interests at heart....
I found it interesting when not long ago, two of our modern spiritual teachers discussed the use of the internet. and whether it enhanced spirituality more, or ego more...?
Perhaps this group may feel it's the perfect time to try a "group inventory" (available through official Al-anon site.) It has given clarity and peace to the f2f groups I participate in.
SRUS, I am reminded that the beauty of Al Anon is that we are advised to take what we like and leave the rest, because Al Anon recognizes that we all possess different personalities and circumstances. Am so sorry that you feel troubled and hope that you can "Live and Let Live", to be able to move on. Blessings to you!!
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"Forgiveness doesn't excuse bad behavior, but it
does prevent bad behavior from destroying your heart". ~ unknown
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