The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Hmmm !!!!! Been on this site only a couple weeks. Am I still concidered a newbie ? My 1st visit to 12 step program was 40 yrs ago. Been back and forth , in and out the rest of my 52 yrs. Been to all kinds of 12stepin' programs, ACA, ACOA, ALA, EA, SAA, IA, and some I just don't remember. I never encountered the "fish" in all of these.
Seems some choices of the way some choose the descriptive words they use to express themselves here are made acceptable more than others are allowed. I was of the opinion we were ALL allowed to choose the ones we use.
How do I figure out which comments these "expessive words" attract are responses and which are reactions ?There is a new language here to have to learn and seemingly be initiated into to participate that I've never known of before till chat here.
Upon entering the chat room for the 1st time, I saw people being slapped with fish ! "WHOA ! Wait a minute !?!?I thought I didn't want to be slapped, had enough slapping, hitting, beating, and so on in my life. Then I found out that Trouts seem ok to hit people with and play with here , but not many want the sharks to be allowed. I ask myself , why is this ? I thought we were all acceptable for who we are and that Tradition 3 applied. If I go to chat I have to learn to swim with the fish ! Well, I don't know much about playing, maybe I can learn ? . !Hmmm Trout, sharks, croakers, angelfish, and are there more ? They are all in the family of fish ! Are there more here ?!?!
If some are partial to trout, it seems to stay for the majority, even if it affects the boundaries of others. Seems there are some that have chosen the way we are to use the chosen expressive words that I thought we were allowed to have to express ourselves. And then others that are used and no one wants to hear. I then found out "Sharks" came here. OMG, what a frenzie occured when they were introduced ! Or were they here before I came and kept secret ? What is this game of fun they play here ?
Is it true that both exist. I've found both. My reality is real. I tried to express myself like I see others do. I wasn't allowed to play like others when I was young. I learned some from the program and materials about the effect of alcoholism on play when growing up. Seems emotions are tied to expressive words. A's and non-A's exist and those are expressive terms used here. Those terms have emotional impact also.
Lets see , let me arrange them. A's and Sharks. Trouts and Recoveries. What are the connotations ? The one that seems to be attacked is the Shark. Now wait a minute, sharks attack.
This reminds me of when I made the mistake of using the term Fix instead of Support and the resulting responses.?????? And then comes HP vs God ????? And then how to "train" newbies ?????
I thought the requirement was being affected by alcoholism. Now the "FISH" are coming !!!!????
Am I in Al-anon or Fish-anon ??????? Now I have a new recovery program ! Does anyone have any literature on it ?
Blessings in Recovery Or is it the Fish Tank ??????
-- Edited by d53sjurne at 19:01, 2006-04-14
-- Edited by d53sjurne at 19:09, 2006-04-14
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I tell myself when times are rough, "this to shall pass!!!" Ask HP for guidance, if the door is open, and I know how to look, I will become aware! I also visit http://www.inspiringthots.net/ . Blessings , Your sister in Recovery
Well d5 I don't' like it either but I have a choice here I don't particiapate . You can do the same . I simply ignore it- I do feel its just done in fun no one participating seems to get upset when they get smacked. So I will continue to do Live and Let Live .
Trouts is not a recovery item but an internet chat item. Some where in a past post I did post a few links about the history of trout slapping on the internet.
I've only been in program 6.5 months (I don't count my first month or two 4 years ago) and I still consider myself a newbie.
As for the internet, I've been chatting pre internet on college nets like bitnet where some of the acronyms we use today like lmao, rofl actually originate.
Hopefully you see that the trout slap is just a silly fun device that is used in internet chat. it's such a fixture that some chat programs have build in the ability to trout slap into the program. It has nothing to do specifically w/ MIP or Alanon.
I believe Trout-anon is more like ACOA then Alanon as I believe they encourage the use of outside literature since WTSO (WSO for trout) CAL is so limited.
Bob
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You are a perfect child of God and God and I love you just the way you are! (added by me...in that special alanon way)
I know it can get confusing. Anytime we learn a new way it can be confusing.
The main thing we learn in alanon is that we cannot make choices for others only ourselves.
Supporting and fixing are two very different thngs. We do not have the power to fix another person. They have to do that themselves and more importantly, they have to want to do it. Try not to let that one get to you. Most of us have the problem of wanting to fix everything, especially our A's. that is often what lead us here to Alanon. Here we learn we cannot fix, but we can offer support, detach with love and try and accept teh things we cannot change.
As far as God vs HP. While this is a spiritually based program, many people have a different view of their HP. My faith is what it has been since I was a child and I choose to call my HP God. I refer to him(who I also identify with as) in most of my posts. I don't believe it is about not mentioning the name. I myself do not take offense if anyone else refers to their HP by a differrent name than HP or GOd. They can say as they believe, I can interpret it to meet my needs. I think it is about respecting the beliefs of others and not shoving our own down anyone elses throats.
If I read something I do not agree with, I just move on. Hence the slogan which is one of my favorrites as I think it can be used in so much of our lives, "take what you want and leave the rest."
As far as the fish thing. It does not interest me to play that way personally, but many seem to enjoy it. I just do not get involved in it.
There are lots of aspects to this program and we can all be individually helped in our own ways. The trick is finding what makes you comfortable and lets you relax and have some fun.
This is just my opinion, but just as others can play with a trout, if you want to play with an imagionary shark, I don't think anyone should complain. (Just be creful, sharks bite! )
Why are the sharks not fun too ? I ask myself. Another member introduced their experience using a "descriptive term" related to the "fish" to convey what they felt and it wasn't about "fish". Instead of responding to what was experienced by that person, it seemed the expressive term was reacted to. It seems to me that the point of the matter trying to be expressed was overlooked because of the expressive term of the "fish term" introduced to get the point across, in my opinion. I feel the same about some of the things I've tryed to get across using "expressive terms". The fun "fish" wasn't what was being attempted to be related , but used as a means to express self about an issue other than "fish". Instead of the issue being addressed, it was side tracked to the "fish", in my opinion. Which with the many interpretations, the issue is lost in alot of the attempts, in my interpretation..
Where are the 3 C's and the 3 A's I am only attempting to bring awareness to the scheme of things here that I see. My intention is not to ruin anyones fun or say that there shouldn't be any. I am all for fun. When I see it clouding the issues and purpose, I felt a need and right to speak up my opinion. My intention is not "attacking", only for awareness of what seems to me to be happening. I thought this is a recovery place where we are allowed to express ourselves, where I am allowed to be heard to promote my and others recovery. I don't want problems in communication of that. I am trying to grow in my life and want to understand others and myself in a caring and loving environment. Where its allowed to express self the way I understand things and to try to understand others in the way they express themselves. I am sorry if there are misunderstandings in this that I am trying to convey. 3 C's 3 A's 3 Obstacles
Thanks for allowing my opinion with caring and love and compassion as I try with others. Progress not Perfection
Bump I appreciate your input as I am not aware of all that you mentioned and haven't learned about it yet. I would like the links to go and take a look at if u r able to post them for me again.. If u have one for the Trout anon thing , I'd also like to know where to find it also Thank you for helping me be aware of these things I hadn't learned of yet.
-- Edited by d53sjurne at 20:13, 2006-04-14
__________________
I tell myself when times are rough, "this to shall pass!!!" Ask HP for guidance, if the door is open, and I know how to look, I will become aware! I also visit http://www.inspiringthots.net/ . Blessings , Your sister in Recovery
I am glad you have so much 12 step in your ack ground. Newbie, just means to us at MIP or to the board, so we can recognize a newcomer to our group.
Alanon says "Take what you like, and leave the rest". If I do not care for the open chat, I leave, I do not sit and waste my time in an unhealthy conversation or in something of no interest to me. Participatioin in chat or the boards is optional at any time. We do not require that you do both. Recovery is an individual choice.
People leave before the Lord's prayer if it bothers them. People only attend meetings and never open chat, others prefer open chat and no meetings. And yes some do not care for trout slapping, (not originated here btw) or fish night, so they do not participate.
Please Let it Go and let who or whatever.... for awhile and think about which option will supplement your current program and your needs the best. We will be here waiting no matter which services you choose to utilize here at MIP.
It is not healthy for any of us to continually revisit this topic. Like I said before, if you would like anything brought up at a business meeting, we can do that. The group makes decisions as a whole, but everyone is welcome and allowed to share their feelings.
And once again, I welcome any personal comments in PM anytime.
Josey
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Julianne - It's best to move on. You cannot look back in anger in life. It's too short
D for me, My focus first is alanon. I don't give any energy to the fish stuff. If I feel like goofing around I do, but if someone comes in I greet them, and ask how they are.
If they are in need of alanon support I stop and focus on them. It used to be the whole room would, and I believe it was a much better chat room when it did.
John, who developed this site, made sure it was like that.
Also for me none of that shark stuff or whatever matters. What matters to me is the alanon part, and if people are paying attention to each other and being supportive and listening. There are no definitions or language we need to learn. We come here and in time we are very comfortble.
I agree with my sister Abbyal. Take what you want and leave the rest, live and let live.
I am more the one who talks a lot but also sits back with my head to side and watches and learns and am in wonder of all these people speaking from their computers.
There was once these two guys and one gal who kept talking about a game they were watching on tv. We started supporting an alanon thing and they kept up playing. To me this is not appropriate. They could have gone private.
I really do believe it was ok to do the game thing, but it should have been put on hold if they wanted to be in the "alanon" room. When things lightened up they could start again.
I hope you can find some serenity in chat and on the message board. Been here so many years now, and this is really a home to me. I have met lots of new people. Have learned from everyone.
Guess it is where you want to look, it is what you want to be into. For me I wanted to feel better. I do too.
We all come here feeling pretty darn tender and beat up. If we stay I guarentee your life will change for the better if you read the lit, do the 12 steps and support others and share.
I have one thought about the trout in the chat room. The truth is, I have never liked that, either. I don't like to have anyone slap me, and it is a form of violence to me, even if it is meant to be humorous. For me, it's like someone saying something with a cutting edge, and then saying: "I was just kidding." Now that I have my feelings, thanks to Alanon and working the Program through the Steps, I am clearer about what is ok with me and what is not ok. I wonder why we think it's funny to "slap someone with a trout." I have never felt good about myself if I have mistakenly slapped someone. Thanks for bringing this up. Blessings, mebjk
I find it amazing how all this is interpreted. I've heard before that someone being slapped with an internet trout offends them because of childhood issues. I guess I can understand the concept, but in MIP trout slapping is more of a action of endearment. It takes all kinds I guess.
Now the shark, that hasn't come up until this week. That's a new one d53, so you are just as knowledgable about it as anyone else. As bobump said, the trout slap thing is built in to chat programs. If poodles-r-us used this particular chat program they could trout slap too.
No one really has to pay attn to that stuff if they don't want to. There is plenty of recovery there to focus on.
Love Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
To me the most useful alanon slogan is "keep the focus on me". I interpret that as meaning that I should make sure my own actions are healthy and positive, and leave it to others to monitor their own lives. If I find that another person's actions are affecting me badly, then I have the choice to change my side of it - either change my attitude or change my address. That is, either find a way for it not to bother me, or get away from it.
As far as chat goes, when I first went, I found it was not a very comfortable place for me. I then had two choices - I could either hang back, take my time, learn to 'swim in this new ocean' if you'll allow a pun, or I could just not go back. Since I have other alanon resources - this board, f2f meetings, literature - there was no need for me to make the effort to find a way to enjoy chat. I just never went back. I have never felt less of a member of this community by making that choice.
Another thing we learn in alanon is that to say what we feel is a healthy way to find our voice. However, we are taught to say it once. More than that, and it can change from an expression of our own feelings, and turn into an attempt to control other people - something most of us here are prone to, if we don't watch ourselves.
d53sjurne wrote: What beautiful fish ! All created by HP
Nature is GODS creation and WE should enjoy it !
PEACE BE WITH YOU
__________________
I tell myself when times are rough, "this to shall pass!!!" Ask HP for guidance, if the door is open, and I know how to look, I will become aware! I also visit http://www.inspiringthots.net/ . Blessings , Your sister in Recovery
I tell myself when times are rough, "this to shall pass!!!" Ask HP for guidance, if the door is open, and I know how to look, I will become aware! I also visit http://www.inspiringthots.net/ . Blessings , Your sister in Recovery
The "slapping with a trout" is an IRC thing. IRC stands for "Internet Relay Chat" and is the technology the chat server runs on. You will run into trout slapping anywhere you use IRC.
I personally think it's kind of silly myself, but I just tune it out.
I think the trout stuff is an internet chat thing. The internet chat stuff was never related to recovery. I think we can get all tied up in terms and nuances. For me feeling left out, apart, empty is part and parcel of my recovery. I have to address that become a-part of which is sometimes difficult for me. I have many obstacles to that. One reason I do not go to ftf is because I am hard of hearing. It can be a real issue in certain places because if there is lots of noise around a meeting it all goes by me. So I have plenty of issues to contend with.
Hmmm !!!!! Been on this site only a couple weeks. Am I still concidered a newbie ? My 1st visit to 12 step program was 40 yrs ago. Been back and forth , in and out the rest of my 52 yrs. Been to all kinds of 12stepin' programs, ACA, ACOA, ALA, EA, SAA, IA, and some I just don't remember. I never encountered the "fish" in all of these.
