(((el-cee))) I remember going thru this myself and driving myself insane with guilt when I inventoried my participation with my then alcoholic/addict wife and found myself addicted to doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

I learned to constantly reach out to the winners in the program and ask for help with a honest "Please" attached to the request.  I also kept a very open mind and worked on the "Courage to change the things I can" which of course was the "me" part of our back and forth.  Just one of the things (simple) I learned and then stuck with was the thought force that "No is a complete sentence".  It was a  simple sentence and in time I found my wife relating to it when she was reaching out for me to save her from the pain of recovery.  I didn't have to say it angrily or loud.  Two letters making up one sentence and commitment.  "No".  In return my HP used her to teach me humility...."being teachable".

Keep on keeping on Sis.  You have good time and experiences.    ((((hugs)))) 
 

(((El-Cee))) - I hear you loud and clear and can so relate....my youngest is back 'here' currently and has been for almost a year. It's been a challenge to live my life independent o him/his disease. The premise under which he was allowed back in - I need a place to dry out so I can apply to live in a sober home...

He has made great strides in his life. He has had a job (good, decent) for the entire time. He has saved money. He has had some slips and is not in recovery. I do worry more when he's in my life than when he's living elsewhere - no doubt. Just this morning, when I woke up, all the lights were on for the 2nd floor, yet it was silent. 'This' is not a good sign as it usually means he's passed out while using. It took all that I have in me to not go check (alive or dead) and instead begin my prayers and dialogue with my HP.

I don't have any answers truly other than leaning into my HP, my program, my healthy friends, etc. I hold on to hope each day through my recovery and faith. I also am aware that a part of me can get sad around the holidays as I continue to grieve for those we've lost and for those stolen by this disease. My goal, just for today, is to do the next right thing and just be of service to me and others.

You are a great mom and work a great program. Take good care of you and trust that more will be revealed. (((Hugs)))

I think this can differ from Alanon to Alanon member. What's enabling for one person isn't to another. Ultimately, it's about feeling at peace with our decisions concerning others. If I feel at peace with it, I'm not enabling. I say this because it's not my job to try to control someone's alcoholism through withholding or giving. Sometimes you just want to give to someone you love. You're both getting something out of it that may not look healthy, normal to someone on the outside looking in but this is your family situation not theirs. These dynamic are unique to the people involved and what they are getting out of it. Alcoholics are first loved ones, then alcoholics. 

I guess speaking for myself, I try to be aware of my motive when making the choices I make with relation to people I love. It's that feeling of dis-ease that can surface is usually a sign that I'm not completely sure of the choice I'm making or timing. When I lived with an active alcoholic, I gave my power away over and over again because I was afraid of losing them. It was less about death from the disease than being left by them - abandoned. I was willing to endure the chaos over the loneliness. It was a vicious cycle for me for a long time that included obsession when I didn't know where they were and fear when they were right under my nose. It was exhausting.

I learned in the program that boundaries were suppose to be the same no matter what the relationship of the person to me. That was hard for me until I got sick and tired of being sick and tired as they say. That came with guilt feelings of my own making as well as ones imposed upon by the A. But feelings aren't facts and I found it best to take the emotion out of it in order to take care of myself. You know.. we say what would you tell a friend if they were in the same situation? Often we're just full of the advice that we ourselves should take, wish we had the courage to take but don't. Basically, I had to get sick enough choose my well-being over any other person's. And that did happen very quickly because I denied myself in order to put others first. 

Today, I ask hp to please lovingly guide me to take care of myself first and please take care of my loved ones. Of course the Serenity Prayer is a help as well and trying to live it.

You'll work through this in the way that's best for you. It's nice that here we can get so much es&h and use what works for our own life situation. ((hugs))) TT

-- Edited by tiredtonite on Thursday 28th of November 2019 01:56:16 PM

Enabling in my experience is also multi-faceted. There are many different types of enabling. While the traditional definition we hear is -- "doing something for someone else that they can do for themselves" -- often very simplistic, how enabling practically applies to our daily lives, and dealing with someone who suffers from addiction can be very, very different. For me, enabling can also be me perpetuating. Enabling can be me contributing. Enabling can me and my role. Perpetuating what? Contributing to what? Me and my role in what? In EVERYTHING THAT IS GOING ON. I can be contributing to the drama, chaos, turmoil, and havoc. I can be perpetuating my behavior and the hostility. I can be perpetuating me trying to be right, trying to control, trying to force my will, and so on. For me, this can be enabling because the alcoholic/addict can either thrive on what's going on, use it, also contribute to it, perpetuate it, and so on.

If I get into a tug of war with the alcoholic/addict...what happens if I just DROP THE ROPE. No more tug of war.

If I get into a back and forth ping pong match with the alcoholic/addict...what happens if I just PUT DOWN MY PADDLE. No more back and forth ping pong match.

The discussion here has been great. I appreciate all the viewpoints shared thus far.

I had a thought come up in my head while reading... doesn't saying we're enabling someone also fall under the illusion that we have some kind of power over someone else's outcomes?

Maybe this falls under ignorance versus willful ignorance.

I think this is where everything has to come back to taking care of what's inside my hula-hoop, and this is where loving detachment comes in.

Before your hairs raise on the back of your neck, I'm not saying to keep on buying drugs or alcohol for the addict when you know it's killing him or her. But ceasing to participate in the addict's problems doesn't mean you're suddenly going to clear the path for the addict to finally see the light and seek recovery. I know I'm not that powerful.

To me, ceasing enabling is for our personal sanity and our self-care.

I suppose I don't care for the intoned blame that comes with the word enabling. I've heard a long-time member say if one of their loved ones is in a bad situation and they don't have money to pay for things like their diabetes medication because everything is going to alcohol, that member said she's going to buy that person her diabetes medication because she has the means to and she cannot live with herself knowing she could have helped in that way.

My sponsor often encourages me to ask how I would like to be treated and asks me "how would you treat a friend"?

In my world there's no black and white answers to these things. Some people are great at just saying "no" to everything and live comfortably with their decisions. I see far more often that most of us find ourselves in grey areas and we work out where we're okay with lending a helping hand, and where we need to draw the line to maintain our own serenity.

I do know bringing God into my life is what helps me - and handing myself and my loved ones over to the care of that Higher Power makes the biggest difference.

For me, I stopped lending assistance to the alcoholic when I felt resentments boil or I felt like I was being emotionally blackmailed into helping him. It wasn't necessarily because I felt I was doing the "right" thing for HIS recovery. I was doing it for ME and me alone.

Thanks for letting me send out random thoughts.

And as always, take what you like and leave the rest!

Welcome to MIP Laurie - so glad you found us and glad that you jumped right in! One day at a time is my preferred strategy too! (((el-cee))) positive thoughts and prayers continue from my world....this has been an awesome topic and I am reminded again that recovery is personal, we each get to use tools as we want/need to and it's always about progress, not perfection.

As I sit her in support of 3 people I love fighting for their lives (Cancer), I've been reminded at a basic level that Alcoholism is a disease, not a choice. I can see, for me, where I have some work to do as boundary rigidity may not be my best approach. (((Hugs))) to all - glad to be a part of the MIP journey this morning.

I also constantly remember something my sponsor used to tell me all the time...he said...if the alcoholic/addict is mad at you...that means you are doing something right!!!

Truth in jest.

I often think that a person might not be able to know whether or not they are enabling. I have found one of the most important, and priceless, gifts that alanon has given to me...is the opportunity for objectivity. I can and do always talk to my sponsor. He can be objective. He is not "in it" and can be a voice of reason, intellect, healthiness, and so much more.