The material presented
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level.
Maybe I'm getting old and overly critical, but I'm wondering about a few things I've seen happening lately in a couple of the F2F meetings I go to - thanks in advance for any guidance.
1 - sharing that goes on, and on, and on, and on . . . . - I know sometimes people are burdened and feel the need to unload in a safe environment - and sometimes a newcomer is so overwhelmed with no where to turn and they need to vent - but I'm talking about "regulars" (old timers) that feel the need to share their entire history and knowledge base regarding all things related to Al Anon - even after the leader has said something about limiting sharings so all can have an opportunity to share during the introduction - and then the the meeting goes long, and still not everyone gets a chance to share - sometimes, it's the meeting leader with a lengthy introduction (8 TYPED PAGES !!!) so that when it finally comes to open the meeting to sharing, 30 minutes of the 1 hour meeting is already gone. Group conscience discussion hasn't done much to improve the situation, and the meeting leader sits there with a smile and lets it go on and on and on - what's a good way to handle this, assuming I'm not out in left field on this and missing the mark?
2 - specific religious discussions - constant references to beliefs like "the Holy Spirit's guidance" and "my Lord and Savior" and "Jesus Christ" - I don't have any issues at all with what someone want's to believe, but doesn't that type of discussion run counter to the "spiritual not religious" basis of Al Anon? Maybe it's OK under the "God of my understanding" stuff, of the idea that an individual's HP can be pretty much anything that want it to be - and again, the meeting leader does nothing when this happens - please help me understand this better.
Hi TY iN my meetings we too have experienced the long shares and have instituted a timed share format everyone who shares is permitted 3 minutes AND a time keeper is assigned who keeps the clock and each person is limited. i hqve not had difficulty with he reliigious aspect however maybe a brief mention, in the opening that this is a Spiritual program and Any reference to RELIGION IS discouraged
Ty... I tell this story a lot. We had no AA or Alanon in this mountain valley- until the government came along to build a big dam. There were AA members amongst the construction crews- and in those days it was the wives who came along to Alanon. In Alanon we often caught up during the week and got to know each other well. I was welcome in many homes and got to know the A's just as well. ...
I recall one meeting where a newcomer arrived. She was in a bad way and the members threw open the whole meeting to that one member. This is what I call- one day at a time- keep it simple.
Every time a newcomer came we had a step one- and we told our own stories... ...it was a big group and this might take place over several meetings.
I got into big trouble saying this recently- but it is true- we members go through changes- and our groups are too. Sometimes groups aren't ready for change. And some may get stuck. I have bin to meetings on both sides of the Pacific- and have found generally that all the best groups go through this stage! ...
Getting a hearing at a conscience meeting is a big one for me. Being heard and being noticed. This is about taking care of my own corner, and taking the rough edges off with my own recovery. ...
I, for one, am glad that you raised the topic- it shows courage, and caring- for the next person who walks into the rooms... tradition 5.
DavidG - "Every time a newcomer came we had a step one- and we told our own stories... ...it was a big group and this might take place over several meetings." - WHAT A GREAT IDEA !!! I have a lot of empathy for the newcomers - I remember how is was for me - and I really wanna give them plenty of time - after the meeting, we can help them understand the program better and how it's gonna work for them, but for that first meeting, they have SO much stuff to unburden - it's painful watching it take place. But when one of the old timers cuts a newcomer off, it makes me sad - sad for the newcomer, and sad for the old timer because it looks like they've forgotten how it was when they started, before they reached the point of program perfection.
TY - I absolutely love, love, love the way my primary meeting manages 'things'....Simply because, it works and it's been a labor of love with tons of group conscious input. We are fortunate to have a few rooms available, so here's what happens:
1. All gather for the opening. (Topics are selected Quarterly and members can sign up to lead.)
2. During the opening, we find out if there are any newcomers - they are auto 'group 2'.
3. During the opening, one on one meetings are offered for anyone in crisis. If this happens, we decide right then/there who is going to go.
4. During the opening, we count off 1, 2, 3, 4 (depends on how many) - goal is no more than 5-6 in a smaller group - all groups except 2 (if newcomer) discuss the same topic.
5. During the opening, all are encouraged to limit shares to 3-4 minutes so all have a chance to share.
This format has worked well for us as it kind of covers all needs - regular meeting, newcomer meeting, one/one meeting if needed. If there are no newcomers, group 2 has a topic meeting like all others. If there is a newcomer meeting, they do review step one, the newcomer's package, etc.
As far as references to religion, we are fortunate it doesn't happen often. If one is droning on and on, the leader or anyone can gently remind/suggest that Al-Anon is not religious, but is spiritual instead. I am less concerned what others call their HP as for many, there is a revised relationship with teachings from youth. I am more concerned if they discuss specific religions, specific religious concepts, etc. I have found myself wincing once in a while and just pray about it so that I settle. Our group conscious has been effective as we truly view all as equals. In other groups I visit, this is not always how it works. There is one/two who have self-appointed as leaders. For me and my recovery, I shy away as I view this as counter-productive to the structure and traditions of the program, and just don't do well with crazy, controlling people. I literally 'run' from other members who give the appearance of a 'perfect program' or 'perfect life' - just too much denial for me/my recovery!
HTH - Hope This Helps!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Iam I am always inspired- when you talk about your group[s]...
Just a thought- I think some group get too big- so there is always limited time to share. I know that sponsors can take up some of that slack.
its a dream over here- because all our groups are tiny... but if a group gets the numbers- it might consider having two meetings week- or even three...
so long as there is a big enough crew to do the service... and to encourage others to come forward... ...
I know they have a lot to share at times. And sometimes when I decide to drop my ego at the door I'll actually glean something useful out of what they're talking about. I think I just have a problem mostly when it's the same person sharing the same story for the umpteenth time.
Many groups I attend have time-limits and ask the group to adhere to them We also acknowledge that the leader for that day has the right to ask someone to wrap it up if they're going beyond a reasonable amount of time. I've also been in a group that passes around a little mini hourglass. Each person flips it over when they choose to share and they're asked to watch their time themselves. That method actually felt pretty uncomfortable to me and made me think the Al-Anon Police would show up and ban me from the meeting if I talked too long. I don't think that was anyone's intent with that method, but that's what I got out of it, and didn't enjoy sharing so much at that meeting because I felt rushed.
I've found a group conscience may be necessary. If you talked about it during a previous business meeting and it never got resolved it's time to bring it up again. Everyone should be able to share during the regular meeting if they want to. We always encourage members to stay after the meeting if they want to talk longer.
Regarding specific religious tenets, deities, etc. We one time had a member bring a story that really was quite good, but she mentioned something about the reading discussing Jesus in particular. One of our members did such a great job catching this before it went forward. She gently interrupted the person speaking, saying "(name), you know I love you so, SO much, but I have to speak up about any discussions around specific religions. Not everyone in this meeting has the same Higher Power. I'd hate for someone to be confused and think Al-Anon follows any specific religion, because we don't. Would you mind leaving out the stuff that specifies that religion?"
Fortunately the member who was going to share understood, and I think that happened because our meeting has been very good about emphasizing that Al-Anon is not allied with any religion, and through many many discussions around Higher Powers we've all said how freeing it is to know that we're not all expected to share the same views on a Higher Power or have the same Higher Power.
Like IAH, I also don't care what people call their Higher Power - God, Jesus, the Buddha, Allah, Jimmy Kimmel, the Universe, what have you. Just as long as it doesn't lean into a discussion that this person knows exactly what their HP has in mind for EVERYONE else.
One, I am hoping the f2f meeting you are referring to is -- unlike here -- a conferenced-approved, "official" alanon meeting. If it is, and nothing has been decided via group conscience, then two things:
One, alanon is a spiritual program, not a religious one. That is one of the fundamentals of our program. It is one of our principles. It is in (conferenced-approved) literature. Period. So it should be.
Two, another principle of the program is...principles above personalities. There is meaning in and around this. Seek that meaning. This is not about Joe, Alice, who is leading, who is Secretary, etc. This is about the alanon program and the group. The program, the meeting, and most people do NOT get this...OUR RECOVERY...is about...Something bigger, something outside of us! So it should be.
Move for a group conscience and get these issues handled. Simple problems. Simple solutions.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
Great post TY I never hesitate to appreciate going back over "the rules". Most of our infractions are about time limit and often we are gracious because that usually allows for more to learn. I try to keep myself within the limit of 3 to 5 minutes; often I fail. I keep trying. ((((hugs))))
Thanks - the founders of AA and Al Anon gave us such a spectacular gift - I'm gonna bring up my concerns in a Group Conscience and let the process handle the issues, as intended. Thanks, again.
I remember encountering these types of things when I first entered the rooms and, not even knowing the shares were to be limited, etc, it turned me off to Alanon.
Fortunately, I returned to Alanon (there was no other place to go for the help I needed) and have come to a place where the meetings are rocking it out as a safe and warm welcoming place for all.
I just finished another 90 in 90 and need to adjust my schedule... it's going to be hard to decide which meeting to go to as they all have something amazing to offer.
Wishing all things good for your F2F, Texas yankee
We also did a group inventory to allow people to reshape how the meetings and what were the expectations for lack of a better term.
I think a group conscious needs to be done from time to time only because it IS an issue where meetings can become stale and people forget what Alanon is and how it works. That's what sponsorship is for, if you need to go on .. or better yet we had after meetings from time to time and had the best time. People would relax at Denny's and just talk. I loved that about the open AA meeting I attended because it allowed me to see others in a more regular setting than just a meeting.
It really is way to easy to fall back into bad habits of pre alanon and that's part of the structure of alanon is to redirect and program new ways of thinking.
Thanks for sharing this because it's a good reminder that I need to move a muscle and change a thought or I get stuck in old stuff.
S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Some people like chocolate, some people like vanilla, and some people don't like ice cream.
I don't think you can compare this forum -- specifically this one, the alanon forum -- to a conference approved alanon meeting, for many reasons.
Regardless, that has nothing to do with the original post/question.
You have the way a meeting functions and operates -- and then you have the people who share and how they do that. It is similar to the context and content dynamic, and contrast. Look at the differences.
I shared my experience. I get out of a meeting what I put into it, and that doesn't mean I share every time. I get out and put in by being present, listening, relating to what other people share, really getting their perspective and their experience...and that is part of my recovery. I am not in AA. I don't have to worry about drinking. I focus on doing the work of the alanon program, because that is what gets me better -- me doing the work! Not just going to meetings. Doing the work takes place outside of meetings. It works, if you work it...so work it, you are worth it.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
(((TY))) - good on you for taking action and planning to attend and participate in a group conscious meeting. It is through many of these that our group format has matured to what it is. One thing I forgot to mention is through the GC, we did discuss and vote to add a step/tradition meeting once a month. On that day, we just announce it and those who plan to attend it do NOT count off. When everyone has a chance to give input, I believe the group is/stays/gets healthy.
It is through the input of all members, as equals, that a group grows and thrives. I too have been to meetings where it feels stale as the same person/people lead, share the most, etc. I agree with a point above about how easily we can fall back into BR (Before Recovery) ways, one of which is Controlling. I do all that I can to avoid controlling people as it just doesn't align well with my recovery. My preferred group works hard to engage as many members as possible through topic selection, meeting opening, etc. We don't give more power to longer term members, and don't even refer to senior vs. new members.
As far as 'formal' vs. 'informal' meetings, in my area, we have always supported the idea that when 2 or more in recovery are gathered together, it's a meeting. I have always loved that MIP is global and does provide support, fellowship and sharing to anybody, anywhere that reaches out for help. I pray for the day when there are Al-Anon and AA meetings in every area so everyone has access - which is not a reality today. I do believe face to face meetings are the best way to begin recovery, but also support those who only have access to MIP or another on-line option. It does still work when one works it.
When I first landed here @ MIP, I had access to many local Al-Anon meetings. However, I did not have the courage to go and was having major panic attacks, limiting my driving. The MIP forum and meetings saved my life until I could get to local meetings on a regular basis. It is here @ MIP that I've learned how limited meetings are in so many places. I was doing good to get through a day, manage 2 children, their activities, the house, the bills, the meals, etc. So, finding meetings that work with a busy life, kids, job, etc. is also difficult for many. Do what works for you, and trust your program/recovery. Even our Conference Approved Literature suggests we can all use/embrace outside resources as available/needed!
Great topic and discussion TY - glad you brought it here!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
This topic has come up before here- and it has been dealt with... Texas Yankee... 
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