The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
How to you practice detachment when you live in the same house, sleep in the same bed? My spouse is experiencing the effects of his disease (career and property wise) and he started making noises about killing himself. Last night when all this got going, I tried to mentally prepare myself. I couldn't run away, the kids were asleep in their rooms, so I was stuck with him. I didn't respond hardly at all to most of his complaints. This made him mad and so he got more personal in his attacks and ok, I got pulled into that one but I didn't do too shabby a job of backing away, eventually. After awhile he started talking about killing himself. He's done this a couple times before but I decided that I am not getting into this. Part of me thinks i should run him to a therapist. But he doesn't want to go. So at some point I decided that this was on him and I only need to be prepared (as best I can) to do clean up. That's easy to say in the daylight, far away from him. But at night it just makes me so angry. At one point at the height of thing, I just sat there with my head down and prayed that he would find the guts to drive into a telephone pole today. But I'm sure he won't. And then that made me angrier.
It wasn't a good night, it wasn't a good morning. I took a day off from work; I came to the office and then locked the door and turned off the light.
I spent a few hours on the phone with the bank. I'm trying to save myself there. That actually felt good. That was the self-care for the day.
Other than the question at the top of my post, my other question is this: there are people who blame everyone else for their life dramas, and then there are people who blame themselves for everything. Why can't we stop this behavior? Do people ever mature from this?
hi Fedora I am so very sorry that your life is experiencing these challenges. i know I blamed everyone for my problems until i entered program and then i began to look at myself, my actions and motives that helped tremendously. detachment is a great tool and reminding myself that i m powerless over others
Hi Fedora. I'm new here and came here cause once again, I believed my husband was going to stop drinking, He started back after 10 days sober. i know those nights you spoke of. I've cried, yelled, sat silent, etc through them and nothing makes them less painful to endure. I can only offer that you are not alone. While you are going through this, just think of the other women enduring it. There is strength in numbers. Perhaps we should all just be praying for each other in those times. That will mentally take us out of the situation and feel a sisterhood.
I love when you said, "here are people who blame everyone else for their life dramas, and then there are people who blame themselves for everything. " Boy, can I relate!
Since we can't control someone else; we can chose to learn healthier patterns of self-care where we don't blame ourselves. It's interesting to see how practicing this changes the dynamic in some way. It might not influence his irrational behavior, but it can prevent emotional damage. I have come to think of it as, they do what they do because they do it... the reasons why become less important than their willingness.
Also, my reasons why become less important than my own willingness... willingness to remove myself from damaging situations, willingness to turn things over to my HP. This past emotional round, I had decided to do another 90 face-to-face meetings in 90 days. I'm almost done my 90 and feeling much better and supported than I did a few months ago.
Times like what you described were times that I would excuse myself from the room. I didn't have to sit there and be a hostage to the alcoholic's misery. If necessary I'd even leave the house.
I also found that the less talking I did the less ammunition the A would try go glean from my words to twist and turn against me.
The suicide threats are usually empty - it's the alcoholic trying to manipulate. But I did know if ever he sounded serious, I was going to call the authorities and report him as a person in danger. Fortunately that didn't happen (long story to all of this was what partially brought me into these rooms in the first place was an actual suicide attempt by the alcoholic.)
I've been there with you, truly wishing the A would just get hit by a truck so my misery would be over. I was reminded here on these boards that that's a true sign that my life, as it is currently, is unmanageable because I'm fantasizing about some kind of an escape.
Back to step one. I am powerless over the alcoholic and his decisions and my trying to control the situation, even passively, is making my life unmanageable. Time to put the focus back on me. What can I do to take care of myself? My answer is usually get my butt to meetings - LOTS of them when I'm confronted by that kind of insanity. Pick up the phone and call my sponsor. Read my literature. Do my step work. Become like a sponge and absorb all I can about self-care
I am NOT responsible for the alcoholic or his decisions. I don't have to make him feel better. I don't have to make him stop. I don't have to make him see the pain he's creating. What I do have to do is turn my focus inward and start asking myself what I can do to make myself feel better that is not contingent on the alcoholic changing. I really only started figuring those things out by doing the aforementioned work. It didn't come overnight, either. So I had to give myself a lot of grace and be gentle with myself as I stumbled through setting healthy boundaries for myself.
I love what Jilly suggested. Praying is also something helpful. A prayer I often find myself using is asking God to wrap people who are suffering, miserable, etc. in his comfort and love. I get to be wrapped in it, too. And I like the idea of praying for others who are experiencing the same kind of insanity as yourself.
You're definitely not alone. I hope you get yourself to a bunch of meetings. They're indescribably helpful.
For me, I ended up leaving the immediate area when my AH would start up w/the verbal abuse. It was easier for me to do this, b/c my kid was a teen. Most times I asked my kid to go with me (he was more than happy to get out!). I did end up sleeping on a recliner for a whole year (we did not have a comfortable couch). Oh! How I envied those who were able to create their own safe space in another part of their home! Or move their qualifier to a basement, man-cave, garage. So for me personally, I could not effectively detach from my addicted spouse while living in the same home.
__________________
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
(((Fedora))) - I can also relate to all you write. I recall the absolute dread that came over me prior to the sun going down and especially Fridays as the weekends were incredibly insane. I deployed much of what's been discussed - physically leaving the room, at times, even the entire house. I went to many meetings and reached out to others in recovery. I focused and changed me and found (as mentioned) that the less I engaged, the better the outcome.
Living with active addiction for me was harder than anything in my life. I had no success until I embraced recovery and then tried/practiced a variety of our tools. Over time, I got better and so did things. We are far from perfect here, and that's OK - I learned in recovery that perfection is over-rated!
For me, it all happens one day at a time....please take good care of you and keep coming back.
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I have a very different perspective on detaching when living in the same house. Detachment is FOR ME. It is to PROTECT ME. It is for MY PEACE, SERENITY, CALMNESS, and so that I don't have angst, anxiety, anger, resentment, and so much more. That said, detachment is a means to an end. Many people spout off about detachment -- but I see what they are doing is ignoring, dismissing, being rude, standoffish, being dismissive, a lack of compassion, and more. First, there is physical detachment, and emotional/mental detachment. If you are adding co-dependency to the mix, then that's a whole other, related story. LOL.
You want to talk about detachment -- don't talk to an addict/alcoholic about it. That's different. Alanon, and our detachment has and comes from a completely different perspective.
Living in the same house DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR. Nowhere, nowhere, nowhere, in (conference approved literature, meetings, etc.) alanon does it ever say ACCEPTANCE, or Step One, or anything, means you have to accept unacceptable behavior!!! Do not collapse acceptance with accepting unacceptable behavior.
That said, I don't care what the circumstances are -- you are allowed to politely, with kindness and compassion, respectfully walk away and go to a different room than a partner/spouse. You can leave the house. You can go to Starbucks, the library, a friend's house, whatever. Have I had to get up in the middle of the night and sleep in another room? Many times. Have I had to actually leave my house and go to a friend's house, at 3am, just to get back to sleep? Yes I have. Have I gone to a hotel in the middle of the night just to get away from whatever was going on in my house? I have. It's inconvenient. It's sad. It shouldn't be. But IT IS WHAT IT IS. I chose to stay, so I had to play the cards I was dealt. When you get sick and tired of being sick and tired, then maybe you will make other decisions. If not, that's OK. There is no right or wrong. But, if that's what your current situation is because you chose it...you play the cards you are dealt. I did. Until I chose not to.
Don't bother asking why we can't stop this (their behavior). Don't bother asking if they ever mature and grow out of this. Leave him alone. Let him feel, live, experience, etc., the consequences and results of his own actions, behaviors, decisions, etc. Let it be ON HIM. This is a cunning, baffling, enigmatic, insidious, and progressive, decimating disease. The more you try and figure out those things -- the more you drive yourself crazy. Period.
People who look for what to do -- they want to get better.
People who look to understand, figure out, etc. -- they want to understand, figure out, etc., and often want to try/help get the other person to change and get better. They have no idea if the other person wants to change and get better!
Would you rather be right...or would you rather be happy?
Nothing changes if nothing changes.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
I am sorry to hear you are in this situation. I can totally empathise with you. I am married to an AH and we have four children (now just two living at home). My AH moved out at one point and then moved back and slowly over the last year, his behaviour has become more and more unacceptable and he is not actively seeking recovery.
I tried to use detachment to get some peace / serenity back for me - by moving to another room within the house and frequently leaving the house with all the kids in tow or setting up nice things for me when the children were in school (going for a walk, swim etc).
For me though, it reached a point where I was leaving the house more than being in it and I had to ask myself whether this was truly the life I wanted. The answer was no. At this point, I chose to separate from my AH, so that we could each live the life we chose. It was only when I was on my own, that I could see how much I had still been enabling his behaviour and how much (without me realising it) that I had been so hypervigilant when he was in the house, that I was never really in the right head space to focus on my own recovery.
Everyone will find their own path, but for me living with and trying to detach from an active alcoholic did not work for my own recovery.
"Very difficult" was my instant thought response to your post heading. And it is. I have traded an alcoholic spouse for an alcoholic parent and it is almost enough to drive me to self medicating because 1: This stuff hurts alot and 2: This stuff is crazymaking by way of raising logical questions to the face of absolute insanity. While I am for the most part able to detach on a daily basis, I really feel I must physically leave this place once some other work is completed because all it raises for me is contempt where there needs to be compassion.
Sending you very very big hugs of love and support.
Yes, this too shall pass.
Interesting reads/posts. I am not one to analyze, over-analyze, and so on. However, when someone in the rooms, or after a meeting, asks me -- how do you detach, it's so hard, how do you do it when they do this/that, how do you not engage, get dragged in, etc. -- why do you want to detach? Check your motives? Open and honest!
When the alcoholic doesn't get what they want, when, and how they want it -- they can get angry, insulting, belligerent, dismissive, physical, sad, depressed, they can become the victim or martyr, and so much more. If we do the work, are prepared, are stable, grounded, healthy, in recovery -- then we can handle this. We can pick up the phone and call our sponsor. We can do a reading. We can take a walk. Anything to break the pattern of "fighting back" or "engaging" or "getting sucked into" the drama, chaos, turmoil and havoc. No matter how innocent it is -- we get dragged in, and, we are in it!!! It's like quicksand!!!
I for one never said to the alcoholic -- you might be right, or you have a good point there, or anything of the like. I am not going anywhere near agreeing with an alcoholic when they've been drinking. I will have and show tremendous compassion. I will acknowledge their feelings, and have that compassion for them, their plight, and so much more. But, I am not going to agree or give any credibility to the alcoholic when they are drinking. My goal is to END the conversation. Believe me, I am not getting dragged into any discussion I don't want to have! LOL. But I will say -- I am sorry you feel that way, or perhaps we can discuss this at another time, or, as I've told you I am not going to engage and discuss anything when you've been drinking, and so on.
For me, the detachment...is not about the other person. It's about me.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
Detachment with love for me was taking steps towards meeting my own needs. I too struggled with my AH who would disrupt my sleep when he had been drinking. He drinks at night and so his argumentative, rude, insulting behaviour would happen just around bedtime. Just long enough to get me riled up so I couldn't sleep and then he would pass out and sleep through the night and I would be a mess the next morning. I worked with my sponsor to help me get more sleep. I set a boundary that I would not have a serious discussion at bedtime or right before bed. I would be happy to have a discussion in the morning (when he was more likely to be sober). If my AH tried to engage me in something I would tell him once we should talk about it in the morning and then I would walk away. I started sleeping in the spare room (or on the couch or my daughters room when unavailable) when he was drunk so I wouldn't have my sleep disrupted. It was really hard to give up the battle of the bed. I was so resentful that I had to leave MY bed to get some peace but once I accepted that I started to make things nicer and easier for me to move rooms. The most important thing was getting rest not where I was resting. Eventually things settled down and we have an understanding. My AH goes to the spare room when he's being drinking and I am very grateful for that. Other things that worked for me before I decided not to sleep in the same room were...... going to bed before or after he went to bed so we weren't going to have a conversation before bed and I also invested in some earplugs so I wouldn't be disrupted when I was asleep. Sending you hugs. I hope that you are able to keep taking steps towards your own self care. All the best!
-- Edited by KT2015 on Monday 30th of September 2019 03:29:13 PM
Hi Fedora:
I used to think detachment was "not giving a S**t" maybe in beginning, it needs to be that way, but hopefully, and it did for me it FINALLY came to the "OK...this is NOT my issue, NOT my control, I can only take care of me" I have A's in my life (brother-daughter) but I don't, now live with any
when My AH #2 would act all goofy (he was a nice guy, but goofy and annoying and just irritating when drunk) at first I did the "not give a crap" thingy, but I DID give a crap about HIM...NOT his disease...so when he would get crazy, talking to the tv, messing up the kitchen, complaining about the SAME thing over and over, I (and its funny, I was not in program yet) but I devised ways to NOT get sucked into it, but still not be cruel/dismissive/passive aggressie to him, so I would just say " gee that sucks..hope you can sort it out" or I would just acknowledge that I heard him, but in my head I am saying "dude I have my ownproblems can't deal with yours too, they are yours" the biggest test is when he got pulled over , DWI (driving while under influence" he calls me and wants me to bail him out...We had JUST put a bunch of money in my, at the time aging, car and the house was MINE, In MY name and mortgage was coming up....I had to tell him, "can't do it...can't afford it, mortgage is coming up and roof over my head comes first" and I let him sit till they released him when sober and HE had to handle the consequences for HIS problem....he never drove drunk again...instead, he would call ME in the middle of the night ON A WORK night wanting a ride home....again, i would tell him, I am working you find your own way home and tomorrow, AFTER work, we can get your truck (he was in navy and on leave 30 days, I would have these occurrences) I loved it when he went out to sea because NO LIQUOR....but when they tied up at port, he would head for the nearest pub and get "loaded" I let him arrange for his own ride home....so detachment for me is just staying in my lane, let them drive in their own lane....you care, but you don't absorb their BS...you let them deal...thats what I used to do.....
with AH#1, the abusive one, I would just remove myself and sometimes that would be in the middle of the night, I would have to go to GF's house or friends/landlords next door......I told him if he wanted me to continue stayin with him, I HAD to have my own bedroom because I needed to get my rest...otherwise I am gone...so I had my own room...its way harder when they are abusive and you gotta dash out the door to stop the abuse, and I finally packed up and my GF and her BF moved me into my sisters house....I was DONE!!!!! with him, he would get abusive when I would "tune out" so yea, it is different for different folks....but detachment is , to me, just staying in MY lane and he stays in HIS lane (that is where boundaries come in)
glad you are here..Lots of good support you will get...
Detachment with love for me was taking steps towards meeting my own needs. I too struggled with my AH who would disrupt my sleep when he had been drinking. He drinks at night and so his argumentative, rude, insulting behaviour would happen just around bedtime. Just long enough to get me riled up so I couldn't sleep and then he would pass out and sleep through the night and I would be a mess the next morning. I worked with my sponsor to help me get more sleep. I set a boundary that I would not have a serious discussion at bedtime or right before bed. I would be happy to have a discussion in the morning (when he was more likely to be sober). If my AH tried to engage me in something I would tell him once we should talk about it in the morning and then I would walk away. I started sleeping in the spare room (or on the couch or my daughters room when unavailable) when he was drunk so I wouldn't have my sleep disrupted. It was really hard to give up the battle of the bed. I was so resentful that I had to leave MY bed to get some peace but once I accepted that I started to make things nicer and easier for me to move rooms. The most important thing was getting rest not where I was resting. Eventually things settled down and we have an understanding. My AH goes to the spare room when he's being drinking and I am very grateful for that. Other things that worked for me before I decided not to sleep in the same room were...... going to bed before or after he went to bed so we weren't going to have a conversation before bed and I also invested in some earplugs so I wouldn't be disrupted when I was asleep. Sending you hugs. I hope that you are able to keep taking steps towards your own self care. All the best!
-- Edited by KT2015 on Monday 30th of September 2019 03:29:13 PM
I love this post...thank you so much for posting it!!! For me, it was about detachment first. Period. Not detachment with love. That was impossible at first, and for the newcomer/beginner, simply trying to detach -- even without love -- is a great first effort and step. Just detaching. I was too angry to detach with love. I had to leave the room, sleep elsewhere, leave the house, I even went to a friend's house, and even to a hotel. I did whatever it took to detach -- physically -- just so I could get some peace, and not physically be in the presence of the person and the disease. Yes, it was all about my own needs. I was in a very bad place, physically and emotionally, so I had to do whatever it took just to get the disease out of my mind, and out of my face!
Even later on, when I was detaching with love -- and that was a great feeling for me -- it was more detaching with compassion and love, but also the motivation was FOR ME. So I could get some sleep, not ruin my night, my next day, my mindset, and so on. The love -- was for ME! But I also felt love for the alcoholic, and my loving gesture -- although the alcoholic did not see it at the time -- was that I could leave her alone, let her exists, feel the consequences of her own behavior and actions, and not aggravate her, escalate the situation, and not have me contribute to "another fight" or "argument" even though that's what she wanted and was looking for. I gave her what ultimately was dignity and the ability to just be with and by herself and figure out what she needed to figure out, if anything. It's hard to explain, but I see it as me giving her a gift -- the gift of dignity, and ability, and to be left to her own consequences.
In alanon, they say "Never start a crisis for another person, and never prevent a crisis for another person"
Thanks again for posting this.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
I detached in all kinds of ways. At first with a lot of anger
Now I have to work still on detaching. One of.my.supervisors is certainly an alcoholic. She can be unbearable. The good thing about work is that it then motivates me to go look.for other things.
There is no right or wrong way to.do this. Every day new beginning. I do not struggle with my life in the same way I did when I was with the now ex A. I do have great challenges. Every day a new challenge. I felt drained to nothing at times around the alcoholic. A bucket metaphor is necessary. How empty is your bucket. You have to keep monitoring that bucket
Practice practice practice that is the key to detachment
Of course if you are with an active alcoholic then you are running a marathon every day. Respite is needed. I tried fir respite when I.was around the alcoholic I could not work out how to.do it which says a lot about how depressed I was
Be especially kind and loving to yourself
The now ex A had this pattern where he would appear really sweet and kind to others then he was completely indifferent to me So I looked like the crazy one
It is fine to feel all those feelings it is what you do with them that counts.
Maresie
I'm so glad I've found this message board! Thank you, everyone, for sharing. This is my first post and I'm so relieved to find others who are going through the same things I am. I can't start going to meetings until Oct. 22, so until then I will be reading these boards for strength and encouragement. My husband of 23 years relapsed 9 years ago after 11 years of sobriety. After reading these messages I feel fortunate that we have a finished basement where my husband "lives" because of his drinking. I thought this meant I'd detached but I have so much anger and resentment, I know that's not the case. I'm looking forward to learning more here.
-- Edited by Andi B on Tuesday 1st of October 2019 09:01:39 PM
Fedora, thanks so much for this post! And for everyone else who commented. It was exactly what I needed to read this morning.
My AW has been mostly sober for the past four years, and she says she is not currently drinking. She says she is working on her recovery in her own way, and I'm staying out of it, focusing on myself and what I am doing for MY recovery in Al-Anon.
One thing I have been struggling with are these outbursts of anger and verbally lashing out. When she was drinking, I expected it then, had my tools ready, was prepared to not engage, to leave the room, to set boundaries, etc. I got quite good at it, and the behavior eventually stopped. More and more lately, she's been engaging in the same behaviors while sober, and I've been unprepared. I've not engaged in conversation about things, I haven't given her more ammunition, although she does her best to goad me into fighting. But I also haven't removed myself from the room or set boundaries about continuing the conversation when she's calmed down. I've just sat there, in silence, listening to the verbal abuse. And, for some reason, maybe because she hasn't been drunk, I didn't think to apply my Al-Anon tools to the situation. I'm so grateful for this post and everyone's comments because you have reminded me that I do have tools that I can use in these situations and that, just because she isn't drinking, doesn't mean that I have to accept unacceptable behavior.
__________________
Skorpi
If you are depressed, you are living in the past. If you are anxious, you are living in the future. If you are at peace, you are living in the present. - Lao Tzu
Andi B - welcome to MIP - glad you found us and glad that you joined in and shared. Please keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery! So sorry for the disease being active again in your AH - as he's had a taste of sobriety, there is hope that he might want it again. You are not alone and Al-Anon can give you the support, tools, program to help you heal and deal with the affects of the disease.
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
This post has been so helpful for me too. Thanks for the post Fedora. It is reassuring to know that you are not alone. That other people understand what you are going through. Thanks to all of you for adding to this post too!
