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Really struggling with appropriate boundaries with people who have zero boundaries.
My parents have no boundaries, either one of them and it's interesting to watch the dynamic. I have spent a lot of time questioning over the past 6 weeks kind of what's wrong with me kind of stuff .. I'm referring to am I a sociopath or maybe I have BPD and just don't know it kind of stuff. In reflecting over the craziness since mother's day and what started all this off was I tried to do something nice for my mom and it epically blew up. I don't have anything left. I have been coming to this place a lot lately specifically in these relationships.
I've done the whole it's her age thing and I have come to a conclusion that it's her not me and I need to figure out how I'm going to choose to respond to further outbursts. It's not an age thing. It's a tantrum. This is about control and she no longer can exert the same control she used to. It's the same with my adopted dad. These people are just weird. I guess we all are however these people are weird. LOL.
She's apologized however at this point it feels like a trap. That's the hook. Yesterday was difficult because it was her birthday and I wasn't looking to be cruel or mean, I really did not want a conversation, so I did post something to her facebook and my kids called her. I will see where I am at mentally on Friday and put in a late afternoon call and call it a day. I have blocked her over social media.
I know what she wants, I'm so not interested in fulfilling any of her needs or wants nor do I see it as my job. Even as the only daughter kind of thing .. I feel similar with my adopted dad. My mom is different only because I kept doing this because "she's my mom". That's just not good enough anymore. I accept her as is, you know the stove is still hot and it still burns. I think at this point for me the last straw has hit and I'm kind of ok with where I am at. My adopted dad is more about he's been out of my life longer than in it so I have no attachments there, he's an intimate stranger. The weird forgotten/lost uncle is what I would tend to classify him as.
I keep going back to something that happened and outlines her respect for not just me however for herself as well. My XAH and I were visiting her, and her and I were arguing. I can't tell you what it was about .. however it was stupid. She turned to my XAH and said .. she's such a b&*ch how can you stand being married to her. I had forgotten about that incident it has weighed on me for some reason this week. This is how she is .. again it's not an age thing, .. it's who she's been .. it describes her parenting in one sentence of behavior. The last time she struck me across the face I was 13 and I hadn't done anything wrong .. she was angry and just decided to take it out on me .. she didn't like my "tone". My limited experience with teens .. most have a tone that is derived from sheer frustration of trying to be heard .. I wouldn't slap them for it. They might get a "time out" of you may want to revisit and say that sentence again. Slapping? No. It was the last time she struck me because I backhanded her and stood my ground. I was very clear she would never strike me again. Period. She never did again. This whole recent situation has brought up so many complicated feelings. There were no boundaries to learn from and that's been a life lesson for me. One I have tried to pass to my children, it's ok to say no. It's ok to have your own feelings and thoughts.
It was a good lesson in not speaking to my kids like that, not striking them out of anger (pop on the butt is different for redirection I haven't done that since they were 5), I will pinch on the butt if they are sassy. lol. For me to strike anyone across the face .. I can't even begin to see me doing that .. it's such disrespect and lack of control. Then the behavior in front of their friends and/or sig others. I don't name call and so the idea of doing so in front of my kids sig other? WOW. So I learned a lot from that situation and it did teach me that there was something not right in our home and it's taken me a long time to get to the point it was bigger than me. Not only that I wasn't the one with the problem. I was a child. She was the parent/adult and we did not have that kind of relationship at all.
So here I am 1/2 a century old and figuring out how insane my house was (having nightmares and memories flood in on me) and trying to change habits that I learned to survive my childhood. Trying to stop allowing these behaviors to define me. Which had some major pluses .. I did things most adults die never doing. I'm ok keeping the distance as is. It would break my heart if my kids decided to go that direction however that will be their lesson not mine. Today is my lesson. I don't see that happening, who knows they are both relatively young. If you asked my mom when I was that age if we were close (even now) she would probably tell you yes .. the reality of my perception is not so much. It's def a perception thing.
It is what it is, and I'm not sure where I want it to go .. I just know .. I'm back to the same lesson of just because (fill in the blank) I have a right to my own boundaries for safety and protection. Maybe what this boils down to is I'm just in JADE at the moment. I know that was not relatively normal behavior and not only that .. it was not safe behavior.
Hugs S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
While I've not grown up with abusive parents like that, I have a lot of program friends who've experienced almost exactly what you have in varying degrees. I like your conclusion that you have a right to your boundaries for safety and protection - and not just physically. Emotionally, as well.
If we don't take care of ourselves, no one else will!
(((S))) - love your honest share. I can say that I grew up in a home where Corporal Punishment was alive and well. I was spanked, smacked and much, much more. I am close to your age and have done a ton of step work and processing to get to the other side. Having 2 boys with the disease who've backed me into corners, and threatened me and thrown things at me and more, I have defended myself with force - right or wrong. In their eyes, in these situations, I was 'abusive'. They have their truth and I have mine. I suspect and suppose it's the same for my parents.
All I know is I can only look at me, my part, my feelings, my reactions, my truth in each and use our program to heal/deal. I spent many years resenting my parents and my children for the past and just could no longer live there as it was causing me physical illness. I had to find a way to be comfortable in my own skin and boundaries and detaching did work wonders.
You work a strong program and you keep moving forward! Perhaps all this is coming up because you are ready to heal/deal. I do believes everything happens for a reason, not by circumstance. For me, when I am stuck in processing 'life', working closely with my sponsor or even outside help helps to unlock my thinking process...I do not do well in 'limbo' at all so am always willing to seek help in any form when necessary.
I am sending you tons of prayers and positive energy. You will get through this, I have no doubt!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
((((Serenity))))
Such a powerful share! I really felt like you peeled back a layer of you to reveal this. Thank you for sharing this, as some of it still stings the soul, I can tell by your writing. But your words really show just HOW you are using the tools of the program to try and heal/deal.
One of the dynamics of a parent/child relationship that has always fascinated me, is how the offspring will usually revert to child-like behaviors when around their parents as adults. I love how self-aware you are, and strong enough to say "no more" to both your mother and your inner-child! The truly best part about this is that you are taking positive steps to not only heal, but to not perpetuate the behaviors in your children. Brava!
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"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
Thanks you guys, I am really in the throws of some emotional stuff that could just be age related aging .. lol.
There's more to it than that even or it feels that way. I have had my oldest do the what I call posturing on me, IAM and I'm telling you that child decided it was in his best interest to move to the other room. I believe there is a healthy amount of parental fear that is ok. I don't mean fear of being afraid I mean fear of mama is not going to play that, regroup and rethink the next move. I have just lived to much of a life at this stage of the game. My kids are fully aware that as much as I love them, I'm unwilling to walk down specific paths again. I would like to believe they have enough self awareness to say I think I need a timeout.
PNP .. you hit the nail on the head and I believe that .. as an adult I become the wounded child at whatever age was traumatic when I get around my parent/s. It's no different than getting a group of siblings together and you can see exactly who played what role in the family .. LOL.
I have been thinking a lot about trauma based upon what's going on in our world right now and the fact I see trauma in the kids I work with and I believe the fastest way to addiction is through childhood trauma. Trauma is an undefined unmeasured meaning as well. Kind of like what is someone's bottom, that's all relative and different in terms of what does that mean exactly.
Strength .. I never know if that's a compliment or more of a character defect. How much strength is to much? I have always heard I don't think I have your strength .. I think .. it's really not strength because when it's just you and you have to keep putting one foot in front of the other .. what other option is there because giving up isn't going to produce a positive outcome. I just have to keep going every single day. I do not pray for more strength by the way .. lol .. nor do I pray for patience. LOL. I usually wind up with a situation of exactly how wicked God's sense of humor is. LOL. I pray for the best outcome for all parties involved .. lol. Seriously .. LOL. It's the safest bet.
Things have been much more peaceful over the past few weeks which has probably lead to me being able to focus more about where am I at right now. VS. .. oh lord .. I'm required to make a phone call .. and allowing anxiety to dictate what I actually do.
So we'll see. I'm just really trying to stay in the moment, which as an accountant is hard to do because you are either dealing with the past or dealing with projections of the future .. LOL .. it's an interesting dichotomy.
Thanks, S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I'm so glad to read about your peacefulness in past weeks and know that I too, have to put a boundary around my own thinking... the negative thinking that stirs up my own anxieties... thoughts that run counter to my personal goal of peace.
I have been in your shoes, dealing with unpredictable behavior from mother. I have noticed that it especially hurts when I simultaneously hold the thought
"MOTHERS SHOULD NOT ACT THIS WAY."
Ive been to countless meetings for countless years, crying about the pain my family causes me. And like Anne Lemotts story, members have told me again and again... let go, let go, let go. And I'm like, "Believe me, I would if I could... in the meantime I just want to stab you all in the forehead!!!!!!"
I could not figure our how to overcome this. Avoidance worked for awhile but not the complete answer for me. I continued to look to the steps.
I chime in to share my personal gratitude for our 11th step, also for the 11th step prayer which asked me to try to "understand" mother.
I had previously been told that mothers pushing and pulling behavior (Pushing me away and then pulling me back in.. ) was all about "her stuff" but that wasn't enough to give me long-term serenity, I continued getting triggered.
Eventually, a professional termed it borderline personality disorder and I did some research. I am not a professional but...
I came to understand that mother learned in her childhood, that it was not safe to "trust"... Not even the very people who were supposed to love her and care for her. Her parents were abusive, both physically and mentally. so mother was conditioned to believe that people who say they love you, are really not trustworthy, they will flip on a dime. This family disease got passed along.
But I am a lucky one!
Al-anon told me my problem is in my thinking. Now I can look at mothers behavior more compassionately, as that of a little child stabbing at me with her cruel words. Now I can respond to those childish words with much more sympathy and compassion, knowing that it arises from her own inner torment. I have learned to redirect our conversation as I do with any small child...
This is working very well for me and I am grateful because mother is facing "the finish line." All my years in Al-anon, I had always hoped I would find a way amend my part in this before her death... to feel more peace in our relationship. and it came through "understanding."
Showing up for daily meditation also allows me to "experience" perfect love from the Divine Parent... overshadowing the "little me" troubles... they just suddenly become very very small.
(((Peace))) to you and yours, my friend
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 27th of June 2019 01:13:42 PM
That was my same line of thinking with the alcoholic, period. I kept forgetting he was a sick person when I'd try to be reasonable with him.
This is why I love Al-Anon so much - because although our primary membership is focused on helping those who know and/or care for a problem drinker in their lives, the tools stretch much further and are applicable to all people with whom we have challenges.
In any case, I've really been enjoying these discussions around problematic mothers.
For one, it gives me perspective on my own relationship with my own mother, whom, I grow more and more grateful to know that while she's the current alcoholic in my life (in recovery), she was never abusive and spiteful to me. I still have walls up where she's concerned because her deep insecurity really affected me, but I'm grateful that was the extent of the mind-boggling behavior from her.
On another note a close friend in the program is having issues with a mother that fits the previous descriptions - spiteful, abusive, controlling. Your shares around your experiences are valuable to me when she and I chat and the subject of her mother comes up.
And finally, I just wanted to share this, as again, the part of your share that I quoted, 2HP, just made me laugh because I remembered an old move called "The Ref" It starred Denis Leary, Judy Davis and Kevin Spacey. There's a bickering couple in the movie whose family comes to visit over Christmas. The widowed matriarch of the family is just an angry, bitter, controlling, spiteful woman. At one point, Denis Leary's character gets upset with her and says "What is the matter with you? I thought Mothers were sweet and nice and patient. I know loan sharks who are more forgiving than you. Your husband ain't dead, lady. He's hiding."
Phew. God bless the difficult people in our lives. My sponsor sometimes lovingly refers to them as Al-Anon sand-paper, because they sure as heck help us with finding our rough edges and work at smoothing them out.
SerenityRUS, there's that saying about the sins of the father will be revisited on the sons from generation unto generation. Well, it applies to mothers as well. It sounds like your mother sucks. And you kids, it makes me glad I decided not to have any, although I know there are some good things I missed out on. What we all want is loving parents and children who see the world the way we do, and we all get along. That just rarely happens. As nice as my mother was, she taught me it was a sin for a woman to have a job outside the home and I had to be submissive to my husband. In a pig's eye. My husband's grandmother who lived with him, his mother and sister, beat him with a belt until he was 15 and he stood up to her. He said, "If you do that one more time, I will no longer have a grandmother." He was 6'4" and she was 5'2. She never hit him again. There are times to speak out and stand up, and times to remain silent and back away. It's hard to learn which is which if we are upset and our thought are all jumbled up.
Trust yourself to know deep inside what's right for you. It took/is taking me a while to learn that. It does all of us. That's why we have each other in places like this.
I started to respond and how dare work get in the way .. lol ..
"My Mother should not act this way"
Both HP and Aloha hit on such key points with that statement and OMG .. totally true!!
HP I was JUST having the conversation about myself regarding the issue of trust. My poor boyfriend, .. he has finally come to the understanding where he was listening to me that I don't trust. It's not just about him. It's about many other things too. I don't trust my parents why would someone believe that they have a gold star and it's a pass.
I probably have the closest relationship I am emotionally able to with my kids. It comes down to they are kids. I don't expect them to let me down and I don't expect them to be perfect. I can truly allow them to be who they are and be their safe place. Or I think I can .. I have been through some serious parenting curves .. LOL. I am not looking for their approval and for me that's probably the key statement. My kids tell me everything, which is great on one hand and on the other .. I'm ok with not knowing from time to time .. lol. I have an added bonus of knowing when I don't want to know which freaks them both out. I think that's why they tell me is my oldest will say to the youngest .. you might as well verbally vomit .. chances are if she doesn't know she will. LOL. I don't have eyes in the back of my head .. I have eyes in the sky .. lol.
My XAH used to constantly say "It's in the past. Let it go." his was an issue of he didn't want to talk about anything that needed to be addressed .. LOL. My adopted dad does a similar dance. MY thing is if your past is crashing into your present it is going to color the future. So if it's currently still happening then you need to make sure that you are addressing the issue. (UGH .. ok .. so I didn't just write that right?) I need to hear, when I talk about something .. I'm not going to get this from either of these men by the way .. you know what .. I was wrong. Logically I KNOW this .. emotionally .. not so much .. I also need to know I saw what I saw and have either of them say .. yes, that's what happened and I'm sorry. BOY can I dream right?? Best fantasy every!!
So much with my parents is in the past. I am never going to be able to rewrite it or change the history of it. The outcome has historically happened. I think that's where I fall down. I can accept (or partially do so) that this is who they are, I can't control what happened, and the outcome is not going to change. I struggle with while my behavior has changed .. these people are backwards blind to the fact the behaviors continue. That is the trigger, somewhere in my own twisted thinking because my behavior has changed .. I assume theirs has as well. Then I am seriously color me stupid shocked that it hasn't changed and sure enough there they are doing the same damn thing. Nothing changes when nothing changes .. even sometimes when I have changed .. they have their own stuff to deal with and I'm sure my adopted dad just pretends it isn't happening and my mother God love her is just blissfully unaware.
What my XAH says is totally true by the way .. it's in the past. I guess I can't wrap my mind around there should logically be a conclusion. I would NOT allow someone who was a friend behave the way my parents have behaved .. so I really struggle with the why would I continue to place myself in those situations knowing the outcome of them only be having a meaningless less emotionally connected conversation. I would rather be speaking to a fence post. The fence post can't say stupid hurtful things. It's a fence post. I remember my XAH going on about what great friends we were way back at the beginning of the split .. LMAO .. I said to him .. umm .. not sure what you are selling I have a much better class of people I call friends .. you are not it. I was so serious too .. lol. I have such amazing people in my life and I am so blessed I think that's the other part I struggle with .. how can these people be so amazing and the people who seriously are suppose to can't?! Then I can't figure out am I actually just dead inside or am I so far emotionally removed from these people that the logic dictates over the emotions which is a good and bad thing. The idea of never seeing either of them is neither good or bad .. it just is.
If someone is being abusive (these are hurtful comments that are all about a tantrum, followed by I love you let's not do this, .. ummm .. yah .. let's not (block)) do you continue to listen because that's just who they are? I do not buy that part of the sales pitch. Sooo .. what do I do with that? I don't do well with that kind of thing and I don't believe I should. Those are people I limit my exposure to. Yes, I do the 15 min visit. I am polite. Once it crosses that line for me .. nope .. out the door. I am telling you a I look like Speedy Gonzales running for the door to get away. I do think it's one of the reasons I chose to stay 16 hours away from my mom.
This has given me much to mull over. I am having a bit of a pool party with some girls from work and this should be sooo much fun I'm looking forward to it. One of the ladies has a daughter and she has a complicated relationship with her. The daughter is an active drug addict. We have many talks about mother's and daughter's as well as alanon. I am grateful for that part of the deal.
Anyways, I am grateful to be able to work through some of this and figure out how to redirect myself today.
S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
