"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

Jeff Reynolds · Member

Living It Out

megan · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Jeff and welcome to MIP.

I am very glad that you found us.

What I have learned is that relaspe is part of recovery

Whether or not your daughter is off to the races or this is just a relaspe that will be corrected right away no one can know.

Everyones recovery is different.

there is a chat room here that is open 24/7. There are online alanon meetings at 9am and 9pm est.

I also urge you to find your local alnon f2f (face to face) meeting.

There is real help here

keep coming back

megan

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome to MIP Jeff, and hope you find lots of support and encouragement here... There are tons of good people here, with lots of experience, strength, and hope to share... Whether or not this is a "bump in the road" towards your daughter's recovery or not is anybody's guess, but you sound strong in your understandings of what you can (and can't) do, and to take care of yourself during this time. This is such a scary disease, and does sooo much damage.

I wish you well, and please keep coming back.

Tom

debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Jeff and welcome,

Sadly relapse is part of recovery. Some people relapse until they die. It is a horrible disease. No different than a person with cancer who goes into remission, then in time cancer grows again.

All we can do is love the person who is held hostage inside by the alcoholism. It is my experience it must be so much harder to have it be your child. We, as parents nurture them, give them what they need.

The book that helped me to understand the most was, "Getting Them Sober." It will help you to understand that the more uncomfortable the drug makes them, the better. If we try to save them from it, then they won't get to that horrible place, that they may decide, "man I don't want to do this anymore."

My husband is A. I have known him 36 years now. I have seen him go from a beautiful country boy to a homeless, old, insane latter stage A who is going to jail the twentieth of this month.

Detaching saved me. I was able to have him around and love the man I was married to, and when the A came out, I would walk away or send him away. It was terribly hard becuz when you send the A away it takes your loved one.

Your daughter knows the tools, she is not taking it seriously. Hopefully someday she will. the sooner she is miserable, the better. She may lose this job and her apt. It is all up to her. If we baby them and save them, we are helping the disease to be comfy and keep in control.

It is a hard concept becuz our loved one is sick, well don't we want to make them to feel better? NO. They have to feel so down, so sick, had so many losses that THEY know they have to quit for themselves, and will do ANYTHING to accomplish that.

We need to go on with our lives. It helps them. They carry so much guilt. If they see us going on and not being torn apart from the disease, that helps them.

I know when I had pms I felt so bad about being such a B. I felt so guilty for hurting the ones I loved once that two weeks was over.

You have a right to set boundaries. NO you cannot come stay here. NO I will not give you money. NO I will not give ya a car. NO you cannot be here and use.No I will not give you food or cloths or anything

Yes I love you and you are welcome here sober, Yes I would love to go to an open aa meeting with you.

The disease will suck you dry. It is up to you to put up the boundaries. Also the A must be on a program of recovery the rest of their lives. Just not using is nothing.

It has to be a way of life they put together, that helps them to live as best as they can with the disease.

My A got up every day and prayed, would say today I choose not to use. He would work on being honest, caring and would not use profanity. He went to meetings and chaired them.

Sadly my A had a brain tumor removed, lost his sobriety and his program and now is a dead man walking.

I hope you cont. to come here. There is so much love and support and knowledge here. Also we need you too.

love,debilyn

hudsond · ~*Service Worker*~

Jeff

I am sorry for the hard time you are having. Glad you found this place. It is a great place to come and escape and get stuff out! I wish you luck with your daughter. Keep coming back and you can find some good comfort here. There are many wise people here who care!

Just keep reading al-anon lit., go to face to face meetings if you can, and I would recommend the "Getting Them Sober" books too.

I hope you can find some peace.

Dawn

confused · Senior Member

Jeff,

I am so sorry for your a pain. I know all to well the disappointment of relapse. I just wanted to share with you something I have heard repeatedly from people in AA. Apparently something sticks with them through treatment centers, AA meeting etc. Each relapse brings a person closer to recovery. Many in AA have shared that the time spent in recovery, short or long, ruined the drinking for them when they did go back out. Sounds a little nutty, I know. But it made sense when I heard it. It is one thing to be going along and not know any different. But each time we learn more. It is not unlike us in Al-anon, we know when we slip. We are learning to do things differently. Hopefully enough sunk in with you daughter to leave that nagging voice somewhere in her head.

(((((Jeff and his daughter)))))

Lynn

nycbt · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome to MIP. You are not alone. There a lot of people who understand.

World Service Organization Website –

WWW.al-anon.alateen.org

Phone number is 1-888-425-2666

Alanon meetings 800-351-9996

Alanon literature Worldwide 888-425-2666

Alanon meeting info. 800-433-7266 AA info.

Chat room is open 24/7 there here the link to www.mipchat.net or http://www.12stepforums.net/chatroom2.html

Here are some things that have helped me since in the program.

Go face to face meeting & online meeting.

post on the board here on the site. I have gotten a lot of good feed back.

· Set support system. people do not judge.You need someone who can go for coffee on a bad day, or pick up a phone and call when in trouble. The support is what is important when you first this program.

Have a sponsor. Someone work one on one with you.

You don’t have to do this the minute u come to the program but I suggest that u do it when u can. It help.

Meeting schedule: meetings are in here and run approximately 90 minutes from: Monday-Friday, 9 am and 9 pm EST, Saturday: 10 am and 9 pm EST, Sunday: 10 am and 7 pm EST. Topics are selected by participants at meeting time. UK +5 hours, central -1 hour, mountain -2 hours, pacific -3 hours. Open chat all other times.

kspear · Veteran Member

Jeff,

I know it's tough watching your child go through this. My son is in a similar boat, but no recovery at all. And he doesn't feel there's a bottom at hand - he hasn't lost anything - of course, part of that's because he's never done anything either. So there's nothing to lose.

But let me share something with you. I am also on the other side of the program, a recovering A myself. Relapse is NOT a part of recovery, contrary to popular opinion. Relapse is still active disease. An alcoholic does NOT have to relapse in recovery. I've seen over and over that many do not relapse. It can actually be a step on the road to get to recovery, but again, not a part of recovery.

It's about bottoms. When it hurts bad enough to finally be sick and tired of being sick and tired. I have also seen many who do "relapse" and go round and round and round. For some, it is the convincer. I know for me it was. I had about 9 months in the first time around, but just wasn't completely convinced of the whole powerlessness bit. Then I did have a drink - a sip of vodka. No, I didn't get drunk. But I did the one thing that more than anything I was determined not to. And it was what convinced me that so far as alcohol was concerned, I could never be boss, I could never win. (By the way, I've stayed sober and continued to grow now for 7 years...)

It's funny, you'd think being an A myself, I'd have more sympathy or something for my son (and ex and father). Actually for my dad and my ex, I probably do. But even though I know the 3 Cs, I struggle daily with the "didn't cause it" one. Because being the parent, I have the thoughts of if I'd only done ________(fill in the blank) or if I didn't do ________(again, fill it in). The guilt consumes me and often spurs my reactions/responses to my son and his behavior. I also have so much fear for him, knowing what my own life was like and how hard it was to recover. I always wanted so much more for him. It's so hard to sit on my hands and not butt in sometimes. Mommies (and daddies) want to fix things for their kids, make it all better...It's in our nature I think. So, I commend you on practicing your program so well!

I'm sure I didn't say anything helpful, but at least you're not alone!

Karen

-- Edited by kspear at 19:46, 2006-04-10

MFran · Veteran Member

((((Jeff & daughter))))

Welcome to the board and keep coming back. There are many people here with much ESH to share.

I have a 27 year old daughter fighting for her recovery as an A. She spent 26 days in detox and rehab. 10 days after she got out she started drinking again. Before detox she was only drinking wine. After detox she was drinking, wine, beer and vodka. Anything she could get her hands on. She was kicked out of her outpatient program because she came to the program with alcohol on her breath. After a couple of weeks she agreed to go back to detox. I went to pick her up to take her and she was so drunk she could hardly walk. Her apartment door was open and unlocked. She was laying on the floor in a pile of clothes right by the front door. It took me 3 hours to get her in the car to go to detox. I cannot even begin to describe the pain of seeing your child like that and the helplessness I felt.

She stayed 5 days for detox. Did not stay for rehab. She must have stopped at a liquor store on her way home. I don't think she even went 24 hours without drinking.

Her dad went by her apartment to check on her a few days later. She was so drunk she was sitting on the couch incoherent. He tried to get her to go back to detox and she would not. He stayed for hours and was afraid to leave her. She wanted to get in her car and go somewhere. She is not a nice drunk. She said mean and horrible things to him. He tried to get her keys and she threw them at him. He finally left with her keys.

The next day she got up, called me and complained about her dad and brother trying to help her. I told her they they loved her and cared about her and she might not like the way they showed it, but that was too bad because they were doing the best they could. She called both an apologized and got back on her program. Called her outpatient program and negotiated to get back in the program. I have no idea what came over her.

As for me, I had to make some decisions for myself. After the second trip to detox I had decided that I could not do that again. I realized that it was very possible that she could die from either too much alcohol or a car accident or careless behavior. (She had a seizure before her first detox because she tried to detox without medical help). As a matter of fact, I decided that more than likely she would die. I made peace with myself about this. When her dad was at her apartment he wanted me to come over. I wouldn't go. There was nothing I could do for anyone but myself.

The only way I could have made peace with myself was because of alanon. Have been going to f2f meetings for 2 1/2 months. I come to this board and read daily. I also got to the online meetings. I also read something from One Day AT A Time or Courage to Change daily.

I take each day one day at a time. I am happy for good days, but do not project what tomorrow will bring.

Sending good thoughts and prayers to you.

MFran

mel123 · Senior Member

Hi Jeff,

I think it is so hard to be the parent of an addict/alcoholic. You can't divorce your child like you could a spouse....they will always be your child! We have been dealing with our 19 year old son and his addiction. He's done out patient and in patient treatments, gone to many, many meetings, and even though he has wanted recovery, he was unable to stay clean and sober. He is now in a year long Teen Challenge program and even though a year sounded like an eternity to him, he knew he needed the help and statistics show a longer program has much greater success rates than the typical 28-35 day programs. Anyway, there is always hope, especially if your child wants recovery. Our faith in God has kept us going, we know this disease is too big for us and we can't control it, just like the addict/alcoholic can't control their disease.

I will be keeping your family and your daughter in my prayers. May God Bless you! Keep coming back, this site and chat room have been such a huge support.

mel123

jrtjosey · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome Jeff!!!!!

Sadly, only time will tell what she will do with her own recovery. You are in control of yours however and seem to be doing well for a parent in the beginnings of recovery.

Keep coming back, you will find many friends here as a great supplement to your local program.

Josey

Jeff Reynolds · Member

I'm grateful for all the wisdom in the replies to my post. Thank-you. My daughter found another half-way house in Florida and begins her second week there. She found work at a restaurant. The mental image of her riding a wobbly bicycle to and from work each day, compared to her former Mustang, is an image I can't get out of my head. She seems to want to keep in close touch with us all, calling daily, sometimes twice a day. She seems to need us more now.

I'm continuing with my reading (Al Anon Works For Families and Friends). Sometimes I step back from my reading, these slogans, the testimonies I hear at meetings, and still am in shock at this strange reality. Maybe it won't seem so strange given time. But even with all the coping skills, the "detachment" I still grieve, grieve, grieve.

I grieve at that which is truly sorrowful to me...the loss of potential that my daughter had and lost because of this affliction. Even though she'll "learn to manage the disease" if all goes well, there really are some doors closed and closing that can never be revisted again...and that's a loss and that's sad. I pass women her age where I work shouldering an unbelievable amount of responsibility for their age. The things they worry about are light years away from the things that Amanda takes care of daily. She came from that other place of responsibility too...but could not stay there for long. A freight train was bearing down her that began rumbling the first time she picked up in high school.

Right now I'm a sponge. I hope some day to be able to give encouragement. Some day soon. So many different perspectives to consider. She should be 100% self-sufficient some say. Paying her own way for everything. No, others say. She still needs you right now. She's in extended recovery at a half-way house. Work yes, but completely self-sufficent? Not yet. Soon, but not yet.

Ah well. I'll take what I like and leave the rest, I guess. Those of you providing wisdom and encouragement, you're doing a great service here. This is a new world, a new language. I'm grateful for a place like this.

-- Edited by Jeff Reynolds at 16:36, 2006-04-18

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"