Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

VickiR · Veteran Member

More thoughts and questions

PosiesandPuppies · ~*Service Worker*~

"I do remember when I was a kid I used to just wish my mum would "hurry up" and get drunk enough that she would just pass out and leave us alone. I wonder if those two things are connected, but in my heart it makes me feel like I wishing for something terrible."

These two things are indeed related. Perhaps you might benefit from visiting the Adult Children of Alcoholics/Addicts (ACOA) site. In any case, I understand your thoughts swirling around this... please know you are not bad or evil... you are crying out for some peace and stability. It is just that the stability you are "used to" is not healthy. Keep coming back here, keep posting, go to face to face meetings... get a sponsor (if you don't already have one). This will help you to establish a new type of stability.

I am sorry I don't have any ESH regarding restraining orders...I just did no contact (NC) except things having to do with our kid. When my spouse was active in his addiction, that meant I had to ignore or delete many posts/texts... but you have to read them b/c of your kid, so I had to really lean into my program so that I wouldn't engage or stay in negative thinking about myself... that is where my sponsor was a Godsend!

wishing you peace!

Lyne · ~*Service Worker*~

{{{VickiR}}} You certainly have your hands full. I can relate to having such a dysfunctional ex and years of struggling, unable to find peace, while my son was young and I did not know anything about recovery.

Fast forward many years and so much damage was done, that I am only beginning to recover with the help of alanon. And the focus of the help is on me. I am learning to cope better with all situations, and although I wanted quick answers and solutions when I began in program, it is going on almost 6 years of regular consistent help, that I am finding peace and happiness. These qualities were lacking for many years.

So I encourage you to get involved in alanon as much as your time and energy allows, because help is here and feeling better and stronger is possible for all of us, Lyne

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

VickiR wrote:
Hi MIP, writing to check in with some thoughts I am always struggling with. I have a hard time accepting that I feel relief in the face of my XAH following his standard patterns of being an addict. It actually gives me a sense of calm when he acts in a way that is predictable to me. He has some short lived periods where he pretends to be sober (not in recovery) and he can be extra aggressive and harassing - basically trying to force his way into mine and my daughter's life, and he acts like I am unreasonable by imposing any limits on him - he is very narcissistic and delusional. Several friends have had to block him because of how intense he is. I feel scared when he seems to be higher functioning, and better when he goes back to being a predictable addict and he is more absent. I know in my heart that recovery is not the same as him "pulling it together" and coming after me temporarily, but any ESH about this and another way to look at it. I truly don't wish to see him destroyed by this disease, and I know recovery would look very different than what we are living.
I have very limited contact with him (email only) and he only has supervised access at the moment (an hour a week, which he frequently misses) but he is relentless - texts to my email address, facetime calls, many demanding emails a day asking for me to explain myself - he goes back to pretending everything is fine, he's a normal coparent, and even tries to discussing reconciling - we have been apart almost 2 years and I still can't break free. He is currently homeless and living in a boarding home and still using drugs, unemployed, and nothing he takes any responsibility for and doesn't seem to understand why that doesn't make him a worthy coparent.
Another question about people who have gone as 'no contact' as possible while sharing a child, any other tips to lock this down even further? My lawyer had suggested a civil restraining order, has anyone done this for harassment? I'm not concerned about physical threat at the moment, just getting some peace from him.
I do remember when I was a kid I used to just wish my mum would "hurry up" and get drunk enough that she would just pass out and leave us alone. I wonder if those two things are connected, but in my heart it makes me feel like I wishing for something terrible. I know that the best thing would be for him to be in recovery, I guess it's the in-between that makes me so uncomfortable.

Keep doing what you are doing. Unless it has to do with your child, very directly, and pointed, and co-parenting. DO NOT REPLY. You have no obligation. He's entitled (as of now) to text and email and you are entitled to not reply (unless having to do with the child). He's an addict!!! Stop focusing on him, what he's doing, how he goes back to pretending everything is fine, that he's normal, etc. Forget it. Detach. Let it go. Let it be a non-issue, non-starter -- non-existent -- in your life. That's the best tip I have. I received on average about 10 to 20 texts a day -- not one having to do with my daughter. I didn't reply to one of them. My sponsor also suggested I stop reading them at all, so I did. There was an agreement that if it had to do with my daughter she was to make the subject line my daughter's name. She was also instructed to and we agreed that any emergency there would be a short call to me, and if I didn't answer, a voice mail. Subsequent, she walked into court with copies of 346 text messages which she stated went unanswered!!! The judge asked me why. I told him that not only were the text messages did not pertain to my daughter, personal in nature, and I considered them harassment. Brief discussion, and the judge agreed!!! I have done the civil restraining order, TRO/RO, no contact, etc., for myself and for clients. It works. It makes a statement. But you should really focus on doing the next right thing in front of you, the next thing in front of you for you, what is best for you...NO CONTACT. So, keep doing it. Don't pay attention to him, what he's saying, what he's doing...don't let him live rent free in your head...not for a minute!

Keep doing what you are doing. It can seem like a battle of wills...you can and will win this one! If you keep doing what you are doing...no contact at all...eventually this will stop. All the best and keep up the great work!!!

VickiR · Veteran Member

Thanks for the responses everyone! I know running down the situation with him might seem like I am very involved, but I was mostly trying to convey the severity of the situation. The only reason I pay attention at this point is assessing whether or not our daughter should see him at all.

Without alanon I can only imagine how difficult watching my XAH become a homeless drug addict would have been, detachment is something I practice constantly and I don't monitor him, feel any need to rescue him or any sense of responsibility for him or his life, BUT he does push my buttons and he is very entitled.

Bo that advice is so sound, it does feel like a battle of wills and he really wears me down after a bad round like it has been this past week. It's good to know if I keep going he will eventually give up. I don't respond or get involved except to state basic facts - meeting times, etc., and least of all explain the reasons for my decisions. I added a filter on my gmail this morning so all his messages will go into a folder I can check if I want but it won't pop up into my life the same way. I will push ahead with no contact, I know in my heart it's what is right for me, and I truly want to move on with my life. Thank you all for taking the time, it's great to have a place to share these struggles.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

(((VickiR))) - good to see you again! So sorry that the disease and your XAH is bringing up uncertainty and fear. I do not have to deal with an Ex and can't imagine how difficult it is to watch his journey and share a child. I love that you set up a filter so you can decide if/when you read/respond. I have done similar when my boys or AH were active and disruptive to my life/serenity. That sounds like a great plan.

Your post reminds me that I do not have to engage or attend every situation I am invited to. Keep doing you - it may not feel good all the time, but when I do the next right thing, more is always revealed when it's supposed to be. Sending you positive thoughts, energy and prayers - keep coming back!

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

VickiR wrote:
Thanks for the responses everyone! I know running down the situation with him might seem like I am very involved, but I was mostly trying to convey the severity of the situation. The only reason I pay attention at this point is assessing whether or not our daughter should see him at all.

Without alanon I can only imagine how difficult watching my XAH become a homeless drug addict would have been, detachment is something I practice constantly and I don't monitor him, feel any need to rescue him or any sense of responsibility for him or his life, BUT he does push my buttons and he is very entitled.

Bo that advice is so sound, it does feel like a battle of wills and he really wears me down after a bad round like it has been this past week. It's good to know if I keep going he will eventually give up. I don't respond or get involved except to state basic facts - meeting times, etc., and least of all explain the reasons for my decisions. I added a filter on my gmail this morning so all his messages will go into a folder I can check if I want but it won't pop up into my life the same way. I will push ahead with no contact, I know in my heart it's what is right for me, and I truly want to move on with my life. Thank you all for taking the time, it's great to have a place to share these struggles.

Vicki, one other thing I did -- on the suggestion of my sponsor -- during a period of time where I was getting 20 texts a day, a dozen or so emails, etc.; my sponsor suggested I not read them and just to make sure something wasn't thrown in there about my daughter...I had my sponsor read them. Unless there was something about my daughter, he did not even tell me about them, not how many, and certainly not what they said!!!

I then set a boundary...which was...I am not going to read your texts or your emails...however, if there is an issue that needs to be addressed relating to my daughter and only my daughter...then you have to put her name in the subject line or in the first few words of the text. I could see the first few words on my device without opening the text. If her name was there, I opened it, but I also sent a copy to my sponsor so we could discuss it. If it wasn't there, I forwarded it to him and I was done with it. Period.

VickiR · Veteran Member

Hi MIP - a little update - my XAH actually reached out to my family yesterday with a long weird email full of wild accusations about how I prevent him from seeing our daughter - and he sent other emails to me about showing up at my house - he isn't allowed at my house and has never been here so it was concerning. Anyway, I called the police and filed a report for harassment - they police were amazing. He basically gets a call from them that tells him to back off and that he can send questions through a mutual friend about any information he might want about our daughter and that way if he continues to bombard me with communication he could get charged with criminal harassment. I'm feeling SO MUCH BETTER. I want to be free from him as much as possible, he is so unhealthy and the less I have to deal with him the better, especially because he doesn't respect boundaries at all. I am just hoping to keep moving forward in my life. I will be finalizing the divorce and have also made the decision to include my last name in my daughter's last name, another decision I was denied in the past and I am honouring what I want and know I deserve it. Thanks again to everyone, this board has been a guidepost through my entire journey out of my dark marriage and life moving forward.

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

VickiR wrote:
Hi MIP - a little update - my XAH actually reached out to my family yesterday with a long weird email full of wild accusations about how I prevent him from seeing our daughter - and he sent other emails to me about showing up at my house - he isn't allowed at my house and has never been here so it was concerning. Anyway, I called the police and filed a report for harassment - they police were amazing. He basically gets a call from them that tells him to back off and that he can send questions through a mutual friend about any information he might want about our daughter and that way if he continues to bombard me with communication he could get charged with criminal harassment. I'm feeling SO MUCH BETTER. I want to be free from him as much as possible, he is so unhealthy and the less I have to deal with him the better, especially because he doesn't respect boundaries at all. I am just hoping to keep moving forward in my life. I will be finalizing the divorce and have also made the decision to include my last name in my daughter's last name, another decision I was denied in the past and I am honouring what I want and know I deserve it. Thanks again to everyone, this board has been a guidepost through my entire journey out of my dark marriage and life moving forward.

Great for YOU!!! You keep doing the next right thing, for you, in front of you. Keep doing it. Keep moving forward. I admire and respect your program, your healthy thinking, and your healthy actions! You are not just learning, you are doing, you are implementing!!!

You aren't just talking the talk...you are walking the walk!!! Keep it up!!!

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

(((VickiR))) - so glad that you found the courage to change the things you can....way to use the program to meet your needs. I have had to reach out to the local police before, and I too have found them to be helpful. I love that you are taking action to find your peace and serenity. Keep doing you - it looks awesome on you!!

Aloha · ~*Service Worker*~

Alcoholism likes to put the focus on anything but itself. When I think back to my own actions, how many times did I myself feel like it was far easier to focus on other people's problems than my own? His disease thinks its protecting itself by making everyone and everything outside of himself responsible for his feelings and actions.

There's a term used frequently for addicts/alcoholics who attempt to sober up without recovery: "Dry Drunk". And my exA behaved the same way when he'd get it in his mind that he was going to stop drinking without help. He'd suddenly become hyper-focused on me and our relationship and on health in general. Suddenly we had problems and they needed to be fixed immediately - especially me and MY problems. He'd become irritable and unreasonable (sound familiar?). Often times it was to the point where I'd guiltily think "Please start drinking again!" because I didn't want to deal with this new, angry, hyperactive monster who suddenly decided I needed to be his project.

Without a recovery program - be it 12-step or something else - a person sobering up on their own finds themselves without their crutch - it makes them scared and hostile. They don't know how to cope with their feelings. They don't know how to identify the true cause of their feelings and recognize how they feel has nothing to do with people outside of themselves and everything to do with their own self-esteem.

Again - sound familiar? It's familiar to me because this is basically what I, as a member of Al-Anon have been most of my life before recovery - a dry drunk! I didn't use substances to dull my feelings, however. I just always made everyone outside of me responsible for how I felt and for the actions I took.

I started getting better when I started to take the focus off the alcoholic and looked at myself. Found out what makes me tick. Why I behaved the way I did. Accepted myself, flaws and all. Became willing to try approaching life in a different way that didn't make others responsible for how I felt.

Through this learning about myself I started to also build up my self-esteem and take the necessary steps to protect myself and my serenity in a way that didn't require someone outside of me changing so I could finally feel okay. I learned I didn't have to accept unacceptable behavior. I learned how to detach. I learned to stop taking everything personal.

Glad you're here. I hope you're getting to face-to-face meetings and you have a sponsor, as well. All are such invaluable tools for me and my recovery.

El · ~*Service Worker*~

Wow- I got a lot out of f this thread. Aloha, your response gave me so much to think about! I appreciate everyones pearls of ESH on each topic brought to this board.

Ellen

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

VickiR wrote:
Hi MIP, writing to check in with some thoughts I am always struggling with. I have a hard time accepting that I feel relief in the face of my XAH following his standard patterns of being an addict. It actually gives me a sense of calm when he acts in a way that is predictable to me. He has some short lived periods where he pretends to be sober (not in recovery) and he can be extra aggressive and harassing - basically trying to force his way into mine and my daughter's life, and he acts like I am unreasonable by imposing any limits on him - he is very narcissistic and delusional. Several friends have had to block him because of how intense he is. I feel scared when he seems to be higher functioning, and better when he goes back to being a predictable addict and he is more absent. I know in my heart that recovery is not the same as him "pulling it together" and coming after me temporarily, but any ESH about this and another way to look at it. I truly don't wish to see him destroyed by this disease, and I know recovery would look very different than what we are living.
I have very limited contact with him (email only) and he only has supervised access at the moment (an hour a week, which he frequently misses) but he is relentless - texts to my email address, facetime calls, many demanding emails a day asking for me to explain myself - he goes back to pretending everything is fine, he's a normal coparent, and even tries to discussing reconciling - we have been apart almost 2 years and I still can't break free. He is currently homeless and living in a boarding home and still using drugs, unemployed, and nothing he takes any responsibility for and doesn't seem to understand why that doesn't make him a worthy coparent.
Another question about people who have gone as 'no contact' as possible while sharing a child, any other tips to lock this down even further? My lawyer had suggested a civil restraining order, has anyone done this for harassment? I'm not concerned about physical threat at the moment, just getting some peace from him.
I do remember when I was a kid I used to just wish my mum would "hurry up" and get drunk enough that she would just pass out and leave us alone. I wonder if those two things are connected, but in my heart it makes me feel like I wishing for something terrible. I know that the best thing would be for him to be in recovery, I guess it's the in-between that makes me so uncomfortable.

Hi Vicky,

I am soooo sorry that you are still stuck (it's like having your life put on hold because of this one situation) because unfortunately for situations like what you and I share in similarities the only thing I can tell you is it will get easier as your daughter gets older. It will be come a different dynamic. It's like parenting .. LOL .. there's no set rules of how to survive parenting however everyone seems to get through it .. lol. You gotta have a wicked sense of humor and remember to breathe.

The threats he makes and you know him better than anyone else here because you are the one with years of experience. My X is so unpredictable he's predictable. I know what he's going to say how he will react when I am "speaking" to him or the current wife. It's very easy to tell. What he says and does are two totally different things and knowing what I know now I wish I had given him more room to basically show himself as he truly is. I realize that sounds harsh .. he counted on me to say no so he could play the victim. I know he goes around saying I kept him from the kids without mentioning all of the visitation he chose to miss. That's all on him. I made excuses and I covered for him and I wish I hadn't.

I'm not sure what a civil restraining order is, however my X and I have it in the divorce decree basically we are really only to speak about the kids. I do talk to him about financial issues because it directly affects the kids. He tries to bully, beg and bargain his way around. This is where I can tell the wife is involved. It gets entertaining and I just shake my head and move on. He tries to bypass me with certain things such as visitation and the kids do say .. well that sounds great, make arrangements with mom and we'll see what we can do. He refuses to do so. Because of this he winds up not mentioning anything again and the kids realize this is on him and his lack of maturity.

In the beginning I dealt with a LOT of issues of him bullying and he tries from time to time to continue to do so. I stick to the topic at hand, redirect and eventually I get my way for nothing else that he realizes I'm not going away. And legally he's obligated. I don't try to speak sense to someone speaking non sense. When that happens the conversation is done. I revisit it when I feel it's a more appropriate time .. I drive the conversation.

This is such a hard dance to do. I really practice a lot of the 3 P's. I hear my sponsors voice and remember her experiences. I talk to other friends dealing with similar difficult post divorce issues and the bottom line is I go with my gut. If it feels off I have a really good track record .. it's probably off. My kids are working on their own relationship with their dad right now and let me tell you how that's working out for him .. he's having to do more work than he counted on and the damage that is there is very evident. That's on him. He is either going to invest the time or he's going to completely miss out. The bigger benefit is he can no longer blame me. I really have worked super hard to keep my big mouth shut. My raised eyebrows are a different issue .. lol.

Big hugs, S :)

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene