Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Paloma Negra · Member

ESH needed

Paloma Negra · Member

I didn't mean alienation of affection in the legal sense but rather withholding affection, no hugs, caresses or normal things couples generally do. We don't sleep in the same bed, unless he's drunk and "loving."

-- Edited by Paloma Negra on Friday 7th of December 2018 05:07:54 PM

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

So, just a question...do you "go along" with the affection and intimacy when he's drunk?

So, are you saying, when he's drunk, he's affectionate, loving, wanting to sleep in the same bed, wants to be intimate, etc.? But when he's not drunk, he's moody, temperamental, cold, etc.?

Paloma Negra · Member

Hi Bo, thank you for your response. Usually if he's not obnoxious or aggressive I do go along with it because I love him. Yes, when he drinks, if he's in a "happy" state, he's affectionate, wants to talk, etc. In the past he's said that when he is sober he feels insecure and unable to perform well and that because he has issues which if not directly relating to alcohol/addiction are worse because of them. I used to bring it up to him about how I felt that he pushes me away not just with the lack of physical contact or intimacy but in general. That was when I thought making my feelings known would "fix" it. Of course I failed to consider that my complaining would make it worse.

-- Edited by Paloma Negra on Friday 7th of December 2018 05:56:08 PM

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Paloma - so sorry that you've found the 'jeckle/hyde' of the disease. What I had to learn for me, and my recovery was to be whole, happy, content, serene no matter how anyone else was acting, behaving, reacting, acting out, etc. I had a life-time of improper conditioning that told me what love, caring, affection, relationships, etc. were 'to be'. In recovery, I came to figure out what I really need in my life vs. what I want and what is acceptable to me in my relationships and what is not.

There are no right and wrong answers as we are each individuals with different needs, some simpler to be met than others. My AH and ASons are vastly different than I and even when I am very clear in what I need from them, I am often disappointed. I chalk it up to the human experience more than the disease. I do know deep down they are not bad, malicious or ill-intending - they are just different and human.

I hope you have a sponsor and are going to meetings - these both were helpful for me in learning enough about me to know what was my part and what was unrealistic. (((Hugs)))

JerryF · ~*Service Worker*~

Paloma welcome back. What I learned on my journey to understand about alcoholism was and is that I will spend a lifetime just in the coming to understand. My early sponsor told me that I was to find and use whatever I could to come to the understanding and I did and still do. That included college courses and then a career as a behavioral health therapist working with families; adults and children. The whole journey has been very enlightening and I have learned much by listening with my eyes and ears.

Alcohol is a mind and mood altering chemical at best which does its work either intentionally or unintentionally. Alcohol is not a natural body chemical. It is a foreign chemical created in combination with other chemicals that are not natural to the human being and then the behaviors which are enacted within the process become habitual along with the thinking and feeling processes.

I know today why my mind will at times suggest that I can drink with impunity even while at the same times my memory reminds me of what a toxic shock event is.

We are powerless over alcohol and our lives have become unmanageable. Consider and believe the steps and keep coming back. (((((hugs))))) smile

Lyne · ~*Service Worker*~

Hello Paloma. I think maybe many of us at times have questions about alcohol that seem impossible to answer. For me it was, yes I understand alcohol is a disease, but there is so much help available, why would someone not get the help? My A was drinking and driving, a professional with a Master's degree from Yale, would make that decision to possibly kill someone else. That didn't and still doesn't make any sense to me.

What I can say is that serious participation in program has introduced to a much better way to live my life, accepting I am powerless over others, but I can change myself. And I'm doing just that, one day at a time, Lyne

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

Paloma, I got it. Been there, done that, and so on and so on and so on.

I too "went along with it" -- for many reasons. Yes, because I loved my wife, more than anything in the world. Also, because deep down I was trying to keep her happy, please her, etc. Also because I hoped if I did these things...she's want to get better! However, at first, I had to look at the difference between love being a noun, and love being a verb. I realized that when she drank, and she was "happy" -- that was not really or truly the answer. I was in denial. I had become so scared, so desperate, so wanting her to get better, I was immersed in unhealthy thinking and behavior. My wife always said that when she was sober, she was insecure, had no confidence, felt ugly, felt horrible, felt like she was not good enough, and yes, she had other issues as well. We talked, endlessly about this. She drank. I went along with it. In the moment, I thought it was the "right thing to do" so to speak. In the moment, it felt right, it felt good. But, in those moments, back then, I was not healthy! I was in denial and didn't know what was healthy or the "right thing" for me to do.

So, I learned a lot of things going through this. My sponsor pointed out that trying to talk to an alcoholic, whether drunk or sober, about intimacy, love, and anything else that even hinted at having to do with her drinking...was a waste of time!!! My wife wanted to drink. And every conversation ended up with her justifying, making excuses, rationalizing, validating -- and making it all sound very good too -- her drinking. I went along with it. I was in denial. I thought by expressing my feelings, I would help fix it and make it better. You feel that way too! Unfortunately, that does not work. Why? Because the alcoholic is still drinking. The alcoholic will not stop drinking UNLESS and UNTIL they want to. Not me, not because of a conversation or not because I went along with being intimate and made her happy. She wasn't happy...she was horny! LOL. Sure, she kept saying I love you, I love you, and all that...but that is not healthy, open and honest, authentic and genuine relationship building. No, you did not make it worse. You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it. Nothing you are doing or will do will make him and/or his drinking worse! Don't buy into that. We constantly get blamed...if we didn't ___________, then he/she wouldn't have to ______________. Right, sure, that, and I have a bridge to sell you that connects Brooklyn, NY and Manhattan. LOL.

I also learned that I had to start focusing on me, and me alone. Not her, not her mood, her drinking, he desires, etc. I had to stop contributing and playing a role and to being immersed in her life, struggles, moment to moment, etc. I had to get off the roller coaster. Other things developed and I learned more -- as the drinking continued, I started to feel not good about being pushed away when she was sober, and wanted when she was drinking. Several things happened. I started to feel used. I started to feel unwanted except for the alcohol. I stopped buying into all of her excuses. I started to feel "dirty" about being intimate. Now, this is just me. However, I also learned that being intimate when she was drinking...was me enabling!!! Yes!!! Wow!!! How thought-provoking! I was contributing to her "stuff" and the drinking, and everything that came from it. I didn't cause her to drink, but I contributed to the overall environment of what was going on. She got unhappy with me, started telling me I was abandoning her, I wasn't being supportive, I was no longer there for her, etc. That was her rationalizing, justifying, blaming, deflecting, and more. Why? Because she is an alcoholic!!! We could discuss anything in the world...except her drinking. Now, it wasn't my job to discuss her drinking, but when it came up it was only excuses, justification, rationalization, etc.

I had to get better. Period. And it was up to her to decide if she wanted to get better. She only had reasons why she couldn't!!! Denial!!! It is a vicious, insidious, decimating disease of denial, unawareness, and more...and that is our disease!

So, I went to more meetings, I worked with my sponsor, closely, on these issues, I got objectivity, and accountability, and reality from my sponsor. I made changes, in my thinking, actions, reactions, and behavior. And I got better! Period. And she had the opportunity to get better...and that was up to her.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene