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Post Info TOPIC: Is it wrong?


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 3496
Date:
Is it wrong?


So I have a horrible time with communication although I have been working on it a great deal.  One of the passive aggressive things I used to do was expect other people to guess what I wanted or needed .. while I know I need to meet my own needs I can ask if there is something I need as an example .. I can ask for a hug from a friend if that's what I need .. now .. it's up to my friend or whomever (LOL .. not a stranger that's not how I work .. LOL) if they can do that for me .. if not then I know that person is not my go to person if I need a hug.  That's OK.  I have communicated that I have a need and I learn where I can go and where I can't .. and that's a gift of alanon is not to take that personally. 

I am working in my relationship to be more upfront about what I need and I am usually over compensating, my natural want to guess what the other person needs.  My poor boyfriend had a rough weekend with me .. LOL.  He likes to make me guess what he wants and I just do not operate like that any more.  Honestly it's been a long time since I have been like that .. I notice with my kids I am much more direct when I see them fiddle faddling around with something so I will ask is there something you need from me because I don't know unless you tell me .. and if it's a need I can meet I will (such as a hug or attention, .. you get my meaning).  So this is forcing some changes in the dynamics of the house instead of waiting for something to be done .. it's so much simpler to ask.  It would be nice not to have to ask however it is what it is ... and someday they will have to take initiative or it won't get done .. lol. 

I'm trying to decide with my boyfriend if this is something I am willing to work through with him.  He really lacks initiative when it comes to relationship work, he doesn't know how to ask for what he wants or take initiative regarding ok I want xyz or I want to leave at a certain time.  He has no problem pointing the finger to say we were late and it's your fault (he doesn't say that .. however he likes to not take responsibility for his part).  So we were suppose to go to the movies Friday night and I got ready it was a later movie.  He likes to fiddle on the kindle and watch movies read and so on .. so I finally about 20 min before the movie started (we are very close to the theater) I ask .. what's going on?  Are you ready?  To which I get the reply .. I was waiting on you .. and my response was no you were killing time and lost track.  I was in the living room wondering what time we were leaving.  He likes to say he's waiting on me to get ready and trust me that's just not a true statement all of the time at least it wasn't Friday night .. however not to even take any kind of initiative to say .. hey I want to leave at XYZ time or whatever kind of drives me nuts he's waiting for me to formulate the plan .. I don't like that it makes me feel like I have to do all of the thinking.  It would be nice for him to say .. hey honey .. let's shoot for 730pm because the movie starts at 8pm .. to let me know he's interested in spending that time with me.  He's not just waiting around for me to plan. 

His daughter had a preemie baby who is doing very well, however still in the hospital .. daughter is not working at the moment and required to head into the hospital daily or it's considered abandonment.  So his week for regular work ends on Tuesday he's had 2 weeks to have some kind of contact with his daughter and has made excuses as to why he can't (this reminds me of my X so it is a trigger for me).  He brought her up on Friday and mentioned she had contacted him blah blah blah .. I listened to all of the excuses as to why he couldn't see her.  When he was done I simply said .. you know if it's to hard .. it's ok to say it .. making excuses doesn't make it less difficult, uncomfortable or whatever .. they just create more space in your relationship with your kid.  He got real quiet and said .. ok .. I am making excuses because I really don't want to go.  Ok.  That I can deal with, .. however you might want to look at what's going on with your relationship and stop putting it all on her.  It's not that you don't have time.  He agreed that he needed to actually make the effort to move forward.  He's suppose to be doing that however with the "new" holiday schedule I'm waiting to hear all of the reasons he can't .. lol.  At that point that's 100% on him and his daughter.  Maybe I'm asking to much of someone to take time and make time when they really don't know how to engage emotionally and yet sometimes he really can.  Out of sight .. out of mind.  So much easier to do than deal with the messy side of life. 

LOL .. which brings me to the tickets I wish I had never purchased.  I got tickets to see the Trans Siberian Orchestra .. this is a group he talked about wanting to see and it's literally his first concert, he's been like a little kid .. it's sweet however it's moved over to annoying and my patience is shot after 8 weeks knowing I have another 6 weeks to go.  I did it as a Christmas surprise .. so much for that because he can't just let someone do something for him and bless his heart I know this comes from decades of disappointment and that makes me so sad for him.  So of course instead of saying what I want him to say (this right here is MY part) .. what I wanted him to say is when I say hey make sure you take XYZ date off because I have a special night planned for us .. I want his response to be honey I can't wait to see what you have planned .. instead he says (this is in September) you bought tickets for the TSO .. well deflate my fun balloon because the fun sucker just took my plans and placed them down the garbage disposal.  I'm trying to be a grown up at the time about it (at the time is a key phrase here .. lol) and just kind of sucked it up and moved on .. yes I really wanted to surprise you however I guess that won't be happening.  I thought we would get dinner and enjoy some time together for your first concert.  Super huge deal for me. 

For the last 8 - 10 weeks now I have been informed from initially telling him .. how much his boss paid for tickets and how he's taking his wife who has always wanted to see them.  They will have better tickets than us.  LOL .. I'm sure that's not how he meant it however that's how I have heard it.  It's irritating.  I can't begin to tell you how irritating it has been .. like fingers on a chalk board.  I have subtlety tried to tell him I really don't want to hear about how much tickets cost.  ( I feel guilty I spent the money I did for nosebleed tickets as he put it, that was an actual phrase used and yes I am having a woman moment of I can remember every detail of any argument 6 months ago .. just don't ask me what I had for lunch because I won't remember! ).  I really don't want to hear about his boss and his wife .. I'm sure they are lovely people however I'm not interested since I seem to be being judged (from my perception) on the money I spent.  So it gets better as I am informed we will be driving that night (I love how I was asked) and they are coming with us to which it was brought up yet again how much tickets cost.  It is the start of every single sentence that has to do with this concert .. I don't understand and at this point I have asked what the point is of those statements because they are perplexing to me.  Then last night was the straw that broke the camels back for me .. again with the cost of tickets and where were we sitting.  LMAO.  Seriously I can't begin to tell you how OVER I was with the situation.  I kept asking him and I did ask more than once .. do I need to cancel the tickets I purchased and get other tickets closer or try to find tickets that were near them?  The response I got was oh no that's not what I'm saying.  Ok .. then what are you saying is what I'm thinking.  Later after realizing I was upset .. this took a min go figure .. I was told they did want tickets closer to us however couldn't get them.  Ok .. again .. do I need to cancel these tickets and get other ones.  I didn't loose my mind however I was teetering on the verge of it.  It was like having a toddler hand on my arm and ask the same question as I am trying to balance my checkbook.  Not just once for 3 hours after already answering the question .. that was the level of my annoyance.  I am proud of myself I didn't blow up .. I was highly annoyed. 

We have discussed it and I still don't understand he's apologized with no real explanation and honestly I don't think he can give me one.  I don't believe he's aware of what it is and I have asked a question he's never had to look at before.  He tried to tell me he doesn't get upset over when we spend money .. when we go out for dinner which is not often .. I have to pay because he can't look at the bill .. it literally gives me anxiety.  Now he totally puts the money in my account however he can't look at the bill.  It's one of those quirks. 

This doesn't make me want to go to a wonderful concert I have never experienced with someone who has never been to a concert .. this makes me look at my youngest and say .. dude .. I gotta ticket I'll stay home .. YOU can go .. LOL.  He's recognized that I am very upset .. he's apologized .. I already know this is going to happen again until he can get to a new level of norm in his life .. and he's not there .. it makes me sad for him.  This may be the way he shows his excitement however as I explained it's not my business how much his boss did or didn't spend on his tickets.  The statement .. boss and wife are really excited to come with us to see the concert, we are going to drive together .. is completely different than Boss got tickets and only paid XZY .. AND they are going to be closer than we are.  By the way they are also going to ride with us to save money. 

My part is I will have to change my attitude about the situation .. go have a good time in spite of myself and trust myself to keep my mouth shut.  I just pray his social graces kick in and now I am empathizing with his X on a few things a to why she did some of what she did and behaved the way she did.  She gave him cash for special occasion days and said here buy what you want to have under the tree act surprise when you open it .. LOL .. I tried to do the surprise thing and that didn't go well.  He guess everything I got him before unwrapping it.  I am not even interested in wrapping anything this year.  LOL.  The next time I get tickets for a concert .. I will NOT be telling him before the day of the concert (I had to because he needed to ask for time off) and I will go directly to his boss instead.  THEN I won't worry about all of the discussion about tickets.  So my part again .. and now I know.  LOL. 

In the big scheme of things it doesn't seem important unfortunately this behavior bleeds everywhere in our lives .. since he wants me to think for him I'm suppose to know how much his bills are when they are due .. he wants me to take care of his past stuff he needs to address and I can barely take care of my own stuff .. I am NOT interested in his stuff too.  I want a partner and someone who meets me on equal levels .. obviously social gender roles are not important to me .. at the same time I really need someone who likes to use their brain and wants to. 

Anyway .. thanks for letting me ramble and vent .. I just was wondering out loud I guess. 

S :)

 

 



__________________

Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism.  If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown

"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop



Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 25
Date:

"I want a partner and someone who meets me on equal levels .. obviously social gender roles are not important to me .. at the same time I really need someone who likes to use their brain and wants to." 

You're worth it (((SerenityRus))

I know that I begin to feel resentful if I feel like I'm doing most the work in a relationship to keep it going. Until this romantic relationship, the ones prior I kept trying to fix. It was as if any romantic relationship was fixable if I did this or that. Of course that just wasn't true. It was no more true than believing I couldn't get it right, failed etc.

What was true for me in particular was a need to control my relationships rather than just allowing them to evolve naturally and accepting the outcome. Heck, I even guilted them when they wanted to leave lol. Somehow, I could always try harder to make it work. I put the 4 M's into play - mothering, managing, manipulating and martydom. I wasn't big on martyrdom but the other three were my go to behaviors. Then I stopped fixing and started expecting participation in conversations (responsibility, ideas, input, SHARING FEELINGSbleh LOL) and you know what happened? I got dumped a lot. My sponsor told me it was because I was growing in the program. I actually needed to be told that. It felt freeing in a way to only be "adulting" for myself. I mean nobody has all the answers just because they are an adult but if someone was back where I use to be, I realized it didn't mean I was lacking in compassion if I didn't want to get into a relationship with them because I understood where they had been particularly when it comes to big issues. I reserve that kind of relationship for sponsor/sponsee in the program. It was better for me to find someone who was at least where I am now.

Money as you know is a topic in our program. Beyond Alanon, it's often thought to be one of the deal breakers in relationship. How you view money and how your bf does seem to be very different. Could your bf be seeing money as a power greater than himself? You've mentioned some emotional attachments he has to it - fear of looking at the bill, comparing and despairing about the price of tickets as compared to his boss' tickets. This thinking is so distorted that he's unable to see the true value of your gift. Alanon clearly sees money as another tool for day to day living not a measuring stick of our value as people or of people.

We work the steps, do the emotional work (the inside job) and let go out outward esteeming. This can be said of letting go of an unhealthy behavior or people who detract from our recovery rather than add to it. Everything in balance - for me it doesn't mean I have to be rigid and stuck in black and white thinking. I just need to know myself and what I can and cannot live with concerning my own dis-ease. Sometimes I need reminders to focus on myself and to choose myself first. This becomes pretty evident when the situation or relationship feels suffocating and utterly frustrating. That's my higher power telling me Hey girl, you need self care, a time out or to end this. 

I hope you find the answers you're searching for with your Alanon program work. I hope you'll trust your progress, your gut, hp and your maturity. ((hugs)) TT

 

 



__________________

Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.



~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 3496
Date:

dohdohdohdohdohdoh

 

How I feel about adulting .. lol. 

I think I'm in a place of watching .. and it's super hard because the kids love him and I do too.  He's very good to me in everyway except in the ability to communicate and because that's a HUGE issue for me (my own issues with communication) it doesn't help.  I'm torn between is it me or the relationship. 

He wants me to be responsible for money and I have declined and explained I want a partner even if it means a few arguments I want someone who is willing to take responsibility and be willing to calmly and rationally sit down and have a conversation about money.  Right now I don't feel like we have a real plan.  We are doing well and he takes care of his stuff and I take care of mine .. I would like it not to have to carry it all on my own.  If I want to live like that I can be single and not be accountable to anyone else except myself and the kiddos.  Oh the issue with money is almost laughable at times .. even my kids have caught on to a few things that when it's done we just quietly laugh about it. 

Yes he has some issues with money and accountability that's not to say he's irresponsible with money .. it's to say he has a difficult time with taking ownership of money.  My perception is he wants me to be responsible for money so he can say see .. look you messed up instead of being in the fire with me about it .. if I wanted to stay in that kind of relationship I would be with my X.  I don't want to think all the time about what's going where .. I would like to share the effort. 

I think what I'm trying to figure out am I pushing him in ways he's just not ready to grow in and that's ok for him .. and I don't resent him for that .. I just don't want him to ever feel he's not good enough.  He's a good guy big time.  I think I exhaust him in some ways.  I exhaust the average person for a number of reasons .. LOL .. he is a very good man.  I do question am I ok with that.  I don't know because I haven't had anyone be good to me. 

So what's the difference in a orange flag and sometimes it really is just me and what my "norm" is?  I think right now with the end of the year, .. my birthday coming .. I'm in a reflective mode. 

I feel settled and happy.  We are having a good time when I can pull him out of his old man routine .. lol .. if that really doesn't make him happy I don't always want to be doing that because if he's not happy doing it then why force the issue.  He already knows I am highly independent and very easy for me to get up and go .. lol. 

I don't feel resentful about doing the work because I'm very vocal that's not how that works for me .. LOL .. right or wrong in that regard .. he can't say he doesn't know where I stand on specific things.  I keep hearing about moving the country and I have pointed out more than once I'm not your girl if that's your end game .. been there done that and was MISREABLE.  I'm ok with city living.  He threw out owning horses and I almost spit my coffee .. again .. no thank you .. a dog or cat is as big of an animal I'm willing to go .. LOL.  He hasn't owned a horse .. ever.  LOL .. again no interest. 

Figuring out if it's about the relationship or allowing things to unfold organically .. these are such tough things for me to work through. 

Sigh .. another day and it's not a bad life or a bad day .. it just is. :)

Hugs S :)



__________________

Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism.  If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown

"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop



~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 11569
Date:

(((Serenity))) - all I know is anytime I am restless, irritable or discontent, I need to look at me. Typically there is something inside of me that's not being 'fed'. Whether that lack of nourishment is from self or another, it's a void that I need to examine. It has taken me my whole life to realize, embrace and finally accept that nobody EVER will be able to satisfy my wants or needs. I believe we are all designed to be imperfect and to compliment each other vs. compete each other. Each person and event has a reason and purpose to making me grow and change and learn.

I am the only person in my life that can determine which relationships I invest in. I've made good investments and I've made bad investments. Yet, both situations have been gifts as it helps to define me and who I want to be. There is no doubt that I am a Type A person and my AH is a Type B person. We are opposites on almost everything including finances, savings/spending, repair/replace, faith, parenting, etc. Yet, if I reflect, there have been times when I was literally ready to walk away, explode, break down, etc. and he shocked everyone by rising up and being different than his mold. I have had to let go of expecting a 50/50 partner and instead accepting what is vs. what I think it should be. I have no doubt that in these very moments, there was a HP working behind the scenes to give me exactly what I need when I need it.

I consider myself very independent and mostly self-sufficient. I am strong minded and strong willed. Perhaps considered a feminist by some - I don't do labels so ... there is that. I do know through self-inventory that my words and my actions aren't always aligned. I am also not good at asking for what I need. I've also been working on this and it does work really well when I can keep it simple. I also had to quit keeping score or an imaginary list of 'let-downs' in my mind and either address my needs with another timely or let it go. I really do all that I can to start each morning with a clean slate letting God have all my issues, worries, successes, etc. each evening for the current day.

I have more peace when I am living One Day at a Time, using the program as best I can. I have more peace when I am able to unconditionally accept other people, places and things as they are not as I want them to be. I have more peace when I am able to say what I mean and mean what I say without inventorying another. I am a better person and partner by working with my sponsor to help me determine how important things are and what are bigger deals. Relationships and communication are complicated and when I let go of 'perfect' and accepted 'imperfect', it helped me better accept and prepare for the good and not so good times.

It's never wrong to have needs, wants, goals, etc. Where those of us affected by this disease go 'sideways' is our inability to accept the outcomes - esp. when they are different than desired. I can get very impatient at times like this and need to be reminded that life unfolds in God's timeline and not in mine. Keep doing you - keep leaning in - I believe that answers come to us when we are doing the next right thing even when we aren't sure what direction to go. (((Hugs)))

__________________

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 

Bo


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 1788
Date:

The dynamic of a relationship is comprised of so many things, and to cover them all, there have been books written about the subject, LOL.

That said, it is very common that on one hand there tends to be a desire to "drill down deep" and get into the issues that are going on. On the other hand, there is a fine line between that and getting caught up in the minutia, which often is a distraction, and obstruction to handling some of the real issues. What is also very common is much of what we deal with regarding our own recovery -- some of the common byproducts of what drove us to alanon -- denial, excuses, justification, rationalization, and more of the like...and it is on both parts, both persons. We can be in complete denial, write scripts, and tell stories to justify, about the alcoholic/addict...and about ourselves! There is the X-factor. I teach a course on communication and the dynamics of a relationship, and it's fascinating to see each person's "side" so to speak, and even more, their interpretation and feelings. What is also fascinating is to see how much the "affected" person takes on vis a vis "blame" or "fault" or whatever you want to call it.

So, what does this mean? LOL. Well, after reading everything what jumps out at me is effort and attitude. Who is willing to make a real, conscious, and obvious effort to work on whatever -- the relationship, communication, appreciation, and so on. Who has an attitude of being part of the solution...not part of the problem. Complacency breeds laziness, and that is not a good ingredient in the recipe of a relationship. A relationship is a living, breathing, entity. It has a life of its own, and it is very much based upon the two people who bring what they bring.

The answer is...COMMUNICATION. That solves almost every issue in and around a relationship. It sounds like he has zero desire to communicate and work on the relationship. That is reflective of something. It's not just "well this is the way I am" or "this is what I do" -- no, it's reflective of who he is inside and outside of the relationship and the role it plays in his life! The byproduct of that can be that there is little to no appreciation, thanks, good feeling, expression, love language, and so forth. Complacency comes too, and so can a lack of gratefulness, gratitude, appreciation, etc. Relationships can become "convenient" rather than the real "desire" so to speak. When someone says they love you or they are in love with you...they need to look at "love" as a verb...not a noun.

All the best.

__________________

Bo

Keep coming back...

God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...

 

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