"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

April306 · Member

Child vs. Spouse

Andrea12 · ~*Service Worker*~

((((April)))))

Wow that is a tough question, for me it is my spouse. I have children and don't know if I could ever detach from them. As you, I also love my children more than life.

I can't seem to detach from my spouse. A child, people do it all the time and I am wondering if detaching is the best step. We somehow must find a way to save ourselves as, we can not save them. No matter how much we pray the only thing that can help the addict is themselves.

I wish you the best in your battle. May god keep you and your family safe and may you find some peace.

Andrea

Jeannie · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi April,

I know detaching isn't easy, and I guess that would go doubly for a child. I have had this debate with my MIL for many years.

My husband and I have 6 children, he will not work and will not lift a finger around here to help while I work. He is also constantly driving around drunk. He has had five DWI arrests and because his parents paid for a very good lawyer has never spent a day in jail.

When he lost his license his parents drove him everywhere. They give him money, even though he doesn't work. They say he gets depressed if he has no money for shopping. They have paid his fines and our bills. When I was pregnant they tried to step into his place, so he could go bowling and drinking. When I have thrown him out, they have given him a bed to sleep in, food, cable, and anything else he could want. Because he can't keep a job, there is never money for anyone here to go to the dentist, yet his parents pay for him to go every 6 months without fail, because they say they care about his teeth. They have always defended every horrible thing he has done, and it never seems to matter how much he hurts the kids, their concern is him. They pay for his beer and his clothing and everything else, while the kids have to make do on what I can earn.

His dad passed away this past December and now that is an excuse for him to drink.

I have begged my MIL to please stop picking him up and dusting him off, and making everything ok. She has told me that as long as there is a breath left in her, he will not hit bottom. She will not go to Alanon, will not read any info on alcoholism. There is nothing I can do to change any of that. I have repeatedly been told by counselors and rehabs and the police and lawyers that as long as him parents make lifef easy on him and tell him everything is ok, he will probably not stop. He has high blood pressure, has had half his stomach removed, his sugar is bad and he has liver damage. The Dr told him he needs to stop drinking and Mom tells him everyhting is ok.

I love my husband, but my marriage is not going to survive much more of this, I don't want to move on, but I cannot continue to live like this. My MIL needs to let her son grow up, and take responsibility for his family, while he still has a life and a family. I can't fight her any longer, I can't win, and saddly my husband is the biggest loser in the long run.

I have a 19 year old son. Thank God he does not like drinking, he has seen what it has done to our family. I love him more than life itself as I do all my children. I can tell you without any doubt that if I had to, I would let him live in a car, if it had to be. I know that he would have to feel the pain of this disease enough to really want to get well. I love him enough to do this. If my MIL has taught me anything, it is what not to do to your adult child. My husband is 44 years old and he is treated more like a child by his Mother than any of our kids. They have had to grow up too fact because of him.

So without being mean, I will tell you, detachnment is important no matter who you are dealing with. The alcoholic has to feel the pain of the consequenses of their drinking enough to need to get better. If this is not done, the only thing that can be guaranteed is that they will die.

I am a little bitter, but that is the direction my husband is heading, his health will probably leave long before we do, he looks puffy and yellow and ill. He is lonely and bitter, but he ahs Mommy and she tells him he is ok. God help me if he dies, because no matter how much I try and not blame and not get angry, I will probably look her in the face and ask her if she is happy, that she has fianlly managed to help this disease kill him, as much as if she put a loaded gun in his hand.

Please don't be offended, I am just telling it like I see it. If you love your son, and I am sure you do, then please find a way to detach (I am sure it will be the hardest thing you ever have to do), his very life depends on it.

Love Jeannie

mebjk · Senior Member

Hello, April,
Thank you so much for being here. Your honesty in posting is helpful to all of the rest of us.
I have been in Alanon meetings for about 20 years now. As I have listened, I can see that it must be very difficult to detach from a child. Whether or not it is harder with a spouse, I don't know. Detachment is something we all work toward in the Program, and often detachment with love is misunderstood. It does not mean that you stop loving the person or stop caring for them. It does mean that you do not do things for them that they are able to do for themselves, however. That would be true for most people in our lives. And since your son is married, it sounds as if he is an adult.
I do know some close friends who had to detach from their son who is on drugs. He has been in and out of treatment. The couple learned that they did not cause their son's addiction, they can't control it, and that they can't change it. And they also learned that their enabling was hurting him more than helping him to come to terms with his addiction.
The experience, strength, and hope I can offer is that I have dealt with alcoholics my entire life. I have felt responsible for their behavior, even though that is none of my business! And the only thing that has helped me has been to go to Alanon face to face meetings, get a sponsor, work the 12 steps of Alanon with my sponsor, and make phone calls when I need the help. None of this has been easy, but it has saved my life. It has helped me with the insanity of my own disease of enabling.
We know that if you choose to work the program, you will be helped. That is a choice only you can make. And we don't expect you to understand "detachment" right off the bat. As we say in the Program: more will be revealed. What is important is that you have found your way here, and that is good.
Please take care of yourself, love yourself, find a good face to face meetings, ask questions, and keep going back.
Blessings and prayers to you, April,
mebjk

April306 · Member

Thank you Jeannie - You are so right. I have told my son that he can not live here. He is 31 and I don't know where he is and have not heard from him again (going on a week). I am trying so hard to not do what your "mil" was (is) doing. I am cutting him loose and pray that someday he will come back (just for a visit) alive and well and say "thanks Mom, I needed that". I know that if I continue to pick him up that I am just helping to kill him. Now I need to get myself to al-anon and learn how to deal with this so that my life will be happier.

Love to everyone here at this site.

emma · Veteran Member

I don't think it is a dense question.

For me, it makes a difference if the child is an adult or a minor. If a minor, I have a responsibility for them that changes when they reach adulthood. Though I also am a believer in consequences appropraite for the age and situation, and I believe it is my job as mom to figure out those consequences and enforce them.

Mine are not adults yet, but I can see now there is some good chance, given what they have lived through, that they will have issues when they grow up. So I need to be ready, but not to "rescue" them each time ... I need to be ready to know how to lovingly detach so they can learn whatever lessons they have to learn in life.

I do not know what I'll do, but I can appreciate how hard it is. I feel the mother-son bond you describe -- there is something extremely special and powerful between my son and me. Before I had kids I would not have believed it. I pray that I will do the right thing at the time so that he can learn from his mistakes, because he like all of us will make them. I pray that he will know in his heart that the reason I will not rescue him at times when he might want me to do so is because I believe in him.

I do not now know the totality of the circumstances that I may have to face one day - I will only know that then, and in the meantime I want to workthis program so I can be as healthy as possible so I can be there when my kids are ready to face their issues. Somewhere there's a saying, am I getting in the way of that person learning the lesson his/her HP wants them to learn? -- I think I used to do that alot. Sometimes it is a hard call, but I think I'm getting better.

I do not know the totality of the circumstances that you face or that your son faces -- only each of you know that. So take whatever is useful above and leave the rest. My heart goes out to you. Keep coming back.

angel123 · Senior Member

Hi your question is one I had also when my children became adults .I agree with Emma it does make a difference there age minors are our responiblity.for me mine are grown.One thing my sponcer once said was God gave me my children to raise and love the best I could for 18 years.Now it is time to give them back to God for he can do far better than I.This sponcer that told me this has died but i hold on to what she said for it helps to keep me sane and from worry.not saying I do not worry but it eases it.My one son that got his self in trouble stealing and other thingsThe mom part of me wanted to rescue,but my sponcer back then told me not to put a pillow under his fall for he will not feel the inpact.Today out of 6 adult children 3 are out there still drinking and using and the wisdom from my sponcer years ago still apply today.Will keep you and yours in my prayers.Take care of you hun.Love and God bless angel/sharon.

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

Hello April , am sorry your having a rough time detaching from your son , I havent had to do that where alcohol or drugs are cocerned but I have several friends who came to al anon because of thier children and I believe it is much harder to detach from a child . but the results are the same Until we allow the A to grow up and become responsible for thier own messes nothing will ever change. If we continue to enable there is no reason for change.

Was in the chat room a few yrs ago when amom came in so worried about her son , he had called and asked for money she was struggling with wether to give it to him or not - she knew it was for drugs not the reason he was giving her, but just couldnt say NO

There was a gentleman in the room who asked her how she wouldfeel if the 400 dollars he was asking her for was the 400 that killed him. ( one last hit ) Jeeeeeeeze I almost died had never thought of it that way before. She didnt give him the money . good luck Louise

April306 · Member

You are all so wonderful. The replies are exactly what I needed to hear and get through my head. He is 31 and there is absolutely no reason he should ever have to call his Mom for money or a place to stay. When I told him not to come here I knew he had nowhere else to go so don't know where he ended up. Still have not heard from him. Your advise helps me be strong and able to tell him "no" when the day comes that he calls with one of his absolutely ridiculous (but always somehow believable) stories which involves me giving him money. If he put half his energy into writing short stories and getting published that he puts into these fabrications he comes up with to get something from me, he would be a wealthy young man.

:)

Jeannie · ~*Service Worker*~

(((April)))

In rereading my post, I realized I sounded harsh, please forgive me. You where seeking ESH and I got on my soapbox.

Being here is a great step. Alanon will teach you how to detach and make you feel better about it. I hope and pray that your son will be fine, and one day will thank you for not making it easy for him to be self destructive. You cannot make him do anything, but you can take care of you and find ways to be happy and comfortable with your choices.

Detaching is not about not loving, in fact it takes a whole lot of love to detach with love.

A piece of me dies everytime I hear one of my children cry because they miss Daddy, and it really hurts when he comes to see them and has tears in his eyes when he leaves. I hate that he thinks I put him out because I don't love him. He cannot understand that I love him too much to watch him self destruct. I pray that someday he will understand. Sadly I don't think that day will come for us.

I think about something that once happened with my son often and it puts things into perspective. My son was a wrestler in HighSchool. It was a tournament his Junior year. he was wrestling a boy who was a District Champion. My son was large but this boy must have been half bull. He was 200 lbs of pure muscle. He slammed my poor baby again and again down onto the mat. He twisted him like a pretzel. I could hear the slamming and my sons groans and screams. I stood by the mat, with my fists clenched and the tears where streaming down my face. I felt every slam and every bump. Part of me wanted to just run out there and get that brute off my baby. I just had to stand and watch. When the match was over, he had lost, and walked off the mat and crumpled onto the floor in the corner with his coach. I could see he was hurt, but I knew he had to do this alone, I stayed where I was. It would have been embarassing to him if Mommy came to the rescue, and he chose this horrible sport. His coach took him into the locker room, and I waited. A few minutes later, the coach came out and said he was asking for me. I practically ran to the locker room. When I got there I kissed him and the trainer told me we had to go to the Emergency Room, he had a cracked rib. Now he needed Mom.

That day I learned I had to stand back to preserve his self esteem and his dignity. He thanked me for not yelling out, or running out and embarrassing him, and he knew how hard that was, and how badly I was hurting. Our children have to fall and get themselves up. They need to feel the bumps in the road, and they need to make their own choices, and suffer the consequenses of them. Nothing hurts as much as watching that. I too love my son. he saved mine and my babies life by driving us to the hospital when I was pregant with my youngest and the baby came early and in distress. I made him Conners God Father as no one else deserved the honor as much. He is my oldest and one of my prides and joy, and I adore him.

Loving our children is forever. They are a preciouse gift we are given to raise, then we have to let them grow up, and give them over to God. I don't think the job ever ends, in fact staying out of their business is a whole lot harder than changing their diapers.

Your son is very lucky to have a Mom who loves him so much. Take care of you.

love Jeannie

nycbt · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome to MIP. You are not alone. There a lot of people who understand.

World Service Organization Website –

WWW.al-anon.alateen.org

Phone number is 1-888-425-2666

Alanon meetings 800-351-9996

Alanon literature Worldwide 888-425-2666

Alanon meeting info. 800-433-7266 AA info.

Chat room is open 24/7 there here the link to www.mipchat.net or http://www.12stepforums.net/chatroom2.html

Here are some things that have helped me since in the program.

Go face to face meeting & online meeting.

post on the board here on the site. I have gotten a lot of good feed back.

· Set support system. people do not judge.You need someone who can go for coffee on a bad day, or pick up a phone and call when in trouble. The support is what is important when you first this program.

Have a sponsor. Someone work one on one with you.

You don’t have to do this the minute u come to the program but I suggest that u do it when u can. It help.

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

The A in my life is my (now ex) wife, but I have met tons of great people in Al-Anon, where their A's were their children (or parents, etc). I don't honestly believe that the act of detachment is all that different, and neither one is necessarily easier or harder, per se.

My belief, is that it is a "loved one", meaning you care about their overall welfare. We ultimately need to learn what we can do, for ourselves, to make sure we are healthy and serene. You can't "save" your 31-year old son, anymore than I could save my 35-year old spouse, anymore than another Al-Anon could save their 70-year old parent.

One of my favourite lines in my recovery, as told to me by a counselor at my ex's treatment center, was simply:

"she is either gonna drink, or she won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

Take care

Tom

Christy · ~*Service Worker*~

I believe it is a bit harder to detach for one major reason.

We as parents feel responsible for the way our children were brought up, for what we did or did not instill in them, thus leaving us with guilt when things go wrong.

With a spouse, we had nothing to do with their upbringing.

Most of the time there is no real blame either way, but as parents we try to take it on and wonder if we had done something differently, would there be a different outcome. It gets us nowhere to wonder and gets them nowhere to cave in to them.

None of my children are addicts, but I have had to learn to detach in other aspects of their lives and quit rescuing so that they can stand up alone.

That's my .02 cents :)

Christy

April306 · Member

You are right about the "guilt" felt when it is the child as the a. I know we were good parents but you can't help going over what we could have done different or better.

Okay - so he called me today "at work" which everyone already knows is a "no no". I don't know where he was calling from - didn't recognize the number (but I could hear a parakeet or something chirping in the background) Is that a clue? "lol"

He was very angry and just wanted to call me at work and let me know how really p.....ed off he is at me and that he is really hurt that I didn't believe or trust him last week and wouldn't be supportive of him as any good parent would. He lost his new job during this week but it is of course not his fault but not to worry he doesn't need a d.... thing from me.

Don't know where he landed but someone is taking care of him this week. I didn't ask. I also didn't have any reponse to anything he said as far as trying to reason or argue with him. Mainly because I was at work and couldn't - but strangely, I just really didn't care to talk to him, because it's so tiresome.

I did tell him what time dinner would be served on Easter Sunday if he wanted to come over for that (especially since his little children will be there). He said he hadn't know he was welcome but wasn't sure if he wanted to anyway and would let us know.

I found him to be very manipulative, very angry and unreasonable and he sounded like he just woke up although it was 1:00 in the afternoon.

As he is extremely good looking and has always had women falling all over him (31 years old but looks like a teenager, but acts like a toddler), I am assuming he has latched on to some poor young woman (and her parakeet).

Sorry this was so long.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"