The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I have been thinking about something for about a week. Using my tools, etc. The latest I have settled on is, "When in doubt don't."
The crazy thing is, I am having doubts about that! LOL!
Today is my Ex's birthday. Last week his mother invited myself and Kid to a birthday get-together at her house this Sunday. While I was thankful that she reached out and called me on the phone to invite me, I wavered on this for days!
Background here... I have known my Ex's family since I was in middle school. I love them all dearly, and this life-change has affected how much I see them, but not my feelings for them. They in turn, hold me in no way responsible for the divorce... perhaps only that they wondered how I lasted so long in the marriage.
It's not that I don't see my Ex. At the moment, we are on good terms. I have had 3 park picnics with Kid and dog - b/c Ex wanted to see dog. I'll admit, the first one was uncomfortable for me, but because of all the "program" I hear from my Ex, the other meetings have been easier. I've even had 2 1:1 dinners with him... true, one was to hash out the particulars of the divorce settlement - ie: when he will pay what, but they were "good" meetings.
My Ex texts me everyday. Mostly to tell me "Have a good day," or to show me something funny. Part of me doesn't care, and part of me sees this as a way to stay in my life. He always lets me know that if the texts bother me, just let him know and he'll cool his jets. I tell him, "For now I am OK with them."
You see, I am still processing how this feels and what my reactions will be, should be etc. My Ex has told me that he is fully aware that it would be within my right for me to say "F*** you, get out of my life!" He tells me he feels honored that I have "allowed" him to keep in contact. As for me, I haven't really made a conscience effort to keep in contact. I respond to his texts (or don't) as I feel, and I don't normally text him unless it's about Kid or money. I tell myself and others that having resentments and anger towards him and his addictions only upsets MY serenity... so what's the point?
But there are other times (this party being one of them) that makes me feel like I am doing my usual supress my emotions thing. So, on the one hand, going to this party makes me feel odd that I will be somewhere where his family will be acting like all is normal (b/c they are rightfully ecstatic that his recovery is going so well) - but it isn't, b/c we are no longer married. On the other hand, if I go with the tried and true, "When in Doubt Don't," then I will be negating my goal (?) of keeping my serenity around this person and the life we once had, as well as missing out on seeing people that have been in my life for more than 30 years.
I am just conflicted.
Thanks for letting me unload, I look forward to your ESH.
Peace
-- Edited by PosiesandPuppies on Saturday 29th of September 2018 01:06:14 PM
__________________
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
PNP, I can relate to the feelings around a family party. I had this situation recently, when invited to a birthday party in my late AH's family. Even after not having seen them for at least 2 years, and my years of experience in program, I felt very anxious about it. I decided that just for this time, it was not my circus and not my monkeys. I decided not to go, and sent a polite RSVP. One of my children went, so our "branch" of the family was represented.
Now, having taken care of myself by staying away, I feel much stronger. If another family party or event comes up, now I feel that I will be able to go and not have all those unsettling feelings... I believe I will feel calm and strong. Of course that hasn't happened yet, but just for today, I believe I will be able to face that in the future, and that I will be able to use my tools to have a good time. I even believe I will be glad to see those family members -- some of whom annoy me -- because I am feeling good about myself.
I feel it's as if I have had an injury, and the doctor says stay off that leg, arm, for a while until it heals. If I put weight on it too soon, I could re-injure it. If I allow it to heal before putting stress on it, I will do better.
Thank you Freetime for your ESH.
I have actually chosen to do exactly what you have done in this past year. I thanked them for the invite and I passed on the get together. I guess I thought I was beyond the trepidation by now.
__________________
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
Hey PnP - my experience is that I have a tad bit of social anxiety always...I really didn't know this about me until deep dives in step work revealed it. I get a tad bit of trepidation still about meetings, golf, softball and even going to family events. I can't really explain where it came from or when it started, but I can own it now and just pause and pray and then proceed.
As far as 'sticky situations' I applaud your choice of tool. I also use when in doubt don't. I still wake up each morning and ask for direction from HP to just do the next right thing for today. I try to keep things as simple as possible. If it feels right, I roll that way. If it doesn't, I don't. The greatest gift of recovery is the freedom to make choices that are good for us, one day at a time...
As always, you got this!!! I am also always aware that feelings are real but they are not facts. Sitting with them and trying to peel back what's possibly at the middle of a feeling does help me....99% of the time, it's fear. (((Hugs)))
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
PaP -- very interesting, a lot of potential insight, and a lot of self-reflection.
I won't speak to the when in doubt thing -- but if that's your gut-check, then do it!!! But, you are having doubts about that, so off we go, LOL.
The dynamic of ex's can be a very difficult, confusing, and complicated one to get and keep arms around. The fact that you wavered for days is reflective of something -- absolutely, positively. No analysis or opinion needed -- with the human brain, the decision making process, and so on...it is in fact reflective of something. "What" it is reflective of is the real issue.
In my experience, it is not about the feelings for the ex family. While that may be present, the lead, the core is the relationship and dynamic with the ex. People say when you marry someone you marry their family...OK, if that's your story, good for you...next. LOL. If someone chooses to see their ex, is on good terms with their ex, see the ex with a child, etc. -- for whatever reason or reasons, then that is one aspect. Socializing, one on one dinners, is something else. Again, whatever the reason or reasons, it is a completely different tone, setting, etc. The way I view it -- just because they were "good" is not a justification for having it. Tail wagging the dog. Ends patting the means on the back. If it's needed, it's needed, regardless of the outcome. But, is it needed? Wanted? I'll let the latter go.
Every relationship is different, but the mere fact that it's an "ex" -- should have some standard of tone, setting, and decorum. While I won't speak professionally, even common sense says if you text every day -- what's the purpose? What's the intention? Co-parenting is not the answer. If it's trivial, insignificant, harmless -- that doesn't mean it's healthy! In addition -- if even the slightest part of hint, or even a whiff, is for someone to stay "in" or "involved" in someone else's life...then, no, that is not healthy. Yes, professionally, every professional will tell you about the standards that should be in place.
In my experience, I don't think this has anything to do with what your ex says -- he feels honored, he says you every right to say F' off, and it doesn't matter if you make an effort or reciprocate -- this is ABOUT YOU. I don't analyze -- but I very openly and honestly look at why I am OK, why I allow, why I accept. And there is a massive difference between analyzing something and taking a real open and honest look at something. There is no tie between anger and resentment and communicating with someone unless you make it that way. I have zero anger and resentment toward my ex, but I do not accept or allow the day to day communication, communication with no purpose, intention, etc. It is a slippery slope...for each of us in alanon!!!
Him, his recovery, his family being happy about that -- has nothing to do with you. Period. People can say it does, and anyone can connect any two dots, and not always with straight lines, LOL. There is a reason why you are conflicted! I would work on this. Meet with your sponsor, talk about it, talk it through, beginning to end...and you will get through it. Remember, you being healthy, you being happy, doing what is best for you, that's all that counts. Everything else is just that. Everything else! LOL.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
Thank you Freetime for your ESH. I have actually chosen to do exactly what you have done in this past year. I thanked them for the invite and I passed on the get together. I guess I thought I was beyond the trepidation by now.
LOL...I just saw this now...Great for you!!! I am glad to hear.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
I also use when in doubt, don't. As much as I believe in honoring my feelings, I want to be mindful that others feelings are separate from my own but also be careful of my motive concerning my participation or non participation. Boundaries is a good place to start for me when these situations arise. Do my words and my actions match? Am I being honest with myself? With others? If not, why? Pnp, I would feel very torn in a situation like you've described. It would feel surreal to take my old seat at the dining table. It could feel confusing and maybe even put an ex wife in the "if onlies." Your son's relationship to his dad and grandma and grandpa is different. He will always be his father's child and their grandchild. An ex wife no matter how many years, doesn't have that connection. We owe to ourselves first. It's lovely their care so much for you and you for them. If the love is there, the understanding if you say "not now" will be as well. (((hugs))) Wishing you the best as make your decision. TT
__________________
Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
Thank you all for your replies. I am a HUGE fan of 'Take what you want, and leave the rest!' I have gleaned some wisdom out of everyone's replies.
TT - Your ESH of "Do my words and my actions match?" stuck with me well into my sleep. I really try to embrace living life "Saying what I mean, meaning what I say, and not saying it mean." I feel for me, it is VERY important. So your words about this stuck with me. And when I awoke this morning, I went directly to the "Daily" post, and I felt it was posted directly for ME! LOL! So your reply came up in my head again, and I had to post here as well...
I believe I was at odds with the slogan "When in doubt..." b/c in my heart, I want to be like someone I have met 'in the rooms' who has long-time Al-Anon membership and who is on a "good friend" level with her Ex - even though they are now both remarried. That kind of peace is what I am striving for, b/c my Ex is not a bad man. He was/is a man with inner demons that affect his life and that he doesn't always have control of - and I am someone who cannot live WITH that. But I feel like I can accept him where he is now (Recovering) b/c I chose to exit out of the marriage.
Am I ready for the dynamic of the whole family (his side) together with me in a different role? I am not sure. But I will never know if I do not try. As someone I admire told me, I can go with the intent of staying for an hour. Play it by ear. Leave when I choose to.
In case you're wondering TT, no, I will not take my "old" seat, my old "role" at the table... b/c I too, thought that would feel odd and would definitely be disingenuous.
I will let you all know how it goes...
Peace
__________________
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
I agree with the when in doubt, dont. I was engaged to an alcoholic who had the most wonderful mother in the whole world. I loved her to death. There wasnt anything I would not do for his mom pretty much. And she was an alcoholic too LOL so like mother like son only she was a sweetheart drunk or sober. I remember how she would get plastered and she would buy enough beer for all of us to party at her house with and she would make a rule that if we got drunk we had to give up our keys And sleep over. Yes I was a little partier back then but I was more interested in chatting up the other guests and eating the great food. But yes, I did drink and I did get a buzz on. But my ex would just get so wasted and nasty and mean or he would just flat out ignore me. We went round and around like this for about a year and finally I told mom that I had to let him go. That this was not healthy and I was beginning to be afraid of him. She hugged me and cried and told me I was the best little daughter she could ever have if she gave birth to me herself she couldnt Love me more. I told her I wanted to meet with her for lunch and stay in her life etc. but I had to completely avoid him.
Well he did sober up. Not in AA but he did give up the drinking And was doing pretty good, but I did not trust it. Anyway they were having a big barbecue and mom wanted me to come and she promised me that he would be sober and that he would behave himself and WouldI come? I was not in recovery, and I did want to go and see mom and the two sisters that I was friends with but something in my heart told me to wait and think and to not go. I am glad that I followed my instincts, I called her up and told her that I would love to see her at another time another place but I did not want to run into him. So I told her thank you but no thank you. I just Did not want any part of him. She and I stayed close for quite a a while and when I married another man she supported me and didnt blame me, and of course I was not in recovery so I am married another alcoholic. Mom had a fatal heart attack on the living room couch with her beer and pizza and she just passed On. I went to her wake to say goodbye to her But I did not go to the funeral. Some of the family members resented me for dumping my ex and marrying somebody else, So I did not go to the funeral. I know this is a little bit off the track of what you posted but I think what I am trying to illustrate is that when its over, its got to be over in that yeah I kept in touch with his mother but I made sure it was on neutral territory and I knew the sisters were angry with me breaking up with their brother so yeah I did not ever go to their house again
Rose, Thank you for sharing your past experience... I did not think it was really off-track at all! It reminded me of the "Reason, season" quote about people... he was in your life for a "season," but she was in your life for a "reason." AT least that was my take on it.
As for me, I was literally out the door when I got a text from Ex that told me that he just found out his mom also invited his sponsor, and would I be OK with that?
WHAAAAAAAT??????
OK, that DID throw me for a loop. While I appreciated the heads up, I immediately felt uncomfortable. I understood that his family is very grateful to this person who helped their son navigate Recovery. But I just knew that he would be scrutinizing me the whole time. I began to REACT by typing out a response of, "I was just about to text you... could you pick up Kid... I can't go." But I PAUSED before I hit "send." That pause allowed me to think of the bigger picture. I then asked my Kid if his dad could pick him up and I stayed home... without any explanation as to why. He told me that was OK, but he didn't want to stay a long time, so how would he get home earlier than his dad? So I just sat and thought about it... from all sides.
I decided that deep down I understood why his mom invited my Ex's sponsor... I mean I was grateful and I am living on the "outside" of all that. Why should I feel discomfort? Even if he did watch me like I was under a microscope, let him see how I am working MY PROGRAM. Right?
So Kid and I went. All were welcoming... that did not feel awkward at all. At times I did feel like I was being "watched," but I thought I was handling the night well, so it did not matter to me. It was good to see everyone, but I was surprised at what Life had thrown at some of the "Ex-family" members. Time marches on, I guess. I stayed longer than I wanted to, b/c Kid wanted to wait for the "opening of presents" but that did not bother me since I knew this was the first time he gave his father a gift without ANY assistance from me... he wanted to see his dad's reaction to it... I get it. I felt the evening was good for my Kid, and myself as well.
I have to make a note here b/c I can see how odd this may seem to some. My Ex's family is kind of used to this dynamic, as my Ex's sister divorced her husband ( over 10 years ago) and they ended up as friends after I much heated divorce. At the time I thought it strange. But now I understand it is more about healthy boundaries and respect. So her Ex has been invited to any shindig in which the sister is a part of. As they get older, their relationship is closer... they just cannot live together.
All this being said, I think I still believe in the slogan, "When in doubt, don't." But if you are questioning that, then look deeper into yourself. I did, and I found out I wanted to touch bases with those "ex-family" members. I still love them. They still respect and I think love me. And I was able to show my kid a healthier way to live life in a demanding, emotional scenario.
In the end, I think it was all about THE PAUSE, and delving into my feelings.
I am thankful for my program and to my MIP peeps who keep me centered, balanced.
Peace!
__________________
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
I think I must add this for any newcomer who might read this thread...
I would not have attended if my Ex was still actively drinking. When people tell you that you will know when your spouse or Ex is working their program, that is exactly true. There will be no doubts. I went b/c I knew I would not be derailed by my Ex b/c he is strongly working his Recovery.
__________________
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
Great outcome PnP - I love that you paused and reasoned things out and possibly knew on some level that you'd be OK no matter what! Our family never excludes anyone - ex's are welcome as well as estranged. I believe we have a policy of unconditional love prevails always, no matter what. Each individual decides if they are able/willing to be present and it always seems to work out. I see no issues at all - it's what I live with and really love because at the end of the day, I believe I have much more in common with all people vs. differences!
I hope Kid's gift opening brightened his day too - it's fun when they are growing up, venture out on their own and are 'owning it'!!! (((Hugs)))
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Reading this thread back to me, I am grateful that I was able to employ "The Pause" as well! I too, love the ideal of everyone getting along... I realize that doesn't always happen. But I am finding lately that life is too short to be stuck in the negative.
As it turns out, Kid's dad was super touched by the mug... It had a picture of a woodland crossroads, the signage read, "The Past" and "Your Future"... you know, on one of those "this way/that" way kind of signs, with a character (bunny?) heading out with a positive aire in the "Future" direction. One of his family members said, "Oh, cool! A daily affirmation!"
I kind of think that was the idea my Kid was going for. LOL!
His dad texted him a picture the next morning with his cup of Joe in the mug. Kid just smiled.
Thanks to everyone who takes the time to listen and share their ESH!
__________________
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
I love seeing the joy on the face of a child when 'they hit a home run'!!! There's no greater gift to make my heart smile than seeing pure, authentic joy from those I gave birth to.....awesome choice (pass along to Kid)!!
And yes - I go out of my way to get along with all persons in my life. I believe my HP wants me to be of service, not standing in judgement or avoiding others because of baggage. It took me a long time to realize that we all have baggage and none of us are perfect...my life got a lot easier when I embraced the suggested prayers for the 3rd, 7th and 11th Steps.
Today, when I decide to decline an invite, it's usually because I've already got plans or I am not spiritually fit. I have no issue owning my limitations and had to realize life goes on with/without me...
Pause, Pray and then Proceed has been very helpful for me! (((Hugs))) - I bet deep down your ex was very grateful and humbled that you were a part of his day.
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
So your reply came up in my head again, and I had to post here as well...