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Hi, this is one of the step 1 questions i'm struggling with. I would appreciate a stear if any of you could.
The exact question in the paths to recovery book is, 'do I accept that alcoholism is a disease? How does that change how I deal with a drinker?'
I think I accept that it's a disease. It certainly has the hallmarks of a serious illness which gets worse. But to be honest I don't think it changes how I deal with my drinker. I am trying to follow Al anon now because nothing else has worked for me so far, but I still feel angry, sad, hurt, anxious at the behaviour of my drinker. I certainly don't feel pity.
Will I come to feel pity? Is this something that comes slowly? If my husband had, say, cancer, I like to think I would listen to him and the emotional turmoil he would be in. I would prepare healthy meals, sort out his medication, bring him cups of tea etc. I don't feel any such compassion for alcoholism.
Two things convinced me that alcoholism is a disease:
1. I knew my husband loved me. He wanted me to be happy. Yet he could not stop drinking for me.
2. I read about what science has discovered about alcoholism. Reading about molecules, neurons, genetics, etc. helped show me that the alcoholic behaviors were not personal to me, and what my husband was up against.
Compassion was harder for me because alcoholism brought behaviors that hurt me emotionally. In the midst of chaos and stress, it was hard to have compassion. However, in time, with program, detachment, self-care -- I gained enough mental space for compassion and understanding to come in. I was able to realize compassion for the person who has the disease of alcoholism, while also caring for myself.
It took time. It was not perfect. Sometimes I acted "as if," even when I was angry and fearful underneath. I tried to act in his best interest, even though I felt like punishing him.
In my experience, most people accept that alcoholism is a disease, but they do so intellectually. Kind of like they accept today is Saturday (at least where I am in the world, LOL). They allow their intellect, knowledge base, as a thought to dictate and they quickly move on. However, that is far from all that is there. It's like you referenced in Step One...while the step says "admitted" -- the step is far from being about admitted -- but far more about, and truly about...acceptance. However, it is not about understanding acceptance, and having it...it is about "achieving" acceptance. When you achieve it...that's where change occurs.
From my learnings, my work, you simply don't accept and acknowledge...you accept, and embrace. It is not the word acceptance, it is the mindset, the philosophy. It must be innate, and there has to be visceral feelings and thoughts in and around it. In my experience, most people, even seasoned people, do not experience this level of acceptance...they move on through the program and then struggle with different things and at various points. In my opinion, this is why you have the control mentality you do in alanon, but that's a discussion for another time, LOL.
If having acceptance, and then achieving acceptance, is not a catalyst for change -- in thinking, actions, reactions, behavior, etc. -- then you aren't there yet. The first time I did PTR, and came upon that question...and the answer was "it hasn't"...my sponsor said, let's go back to step one, again, and talk more about acceptance. Sure, different things happen for different people...but we are talking about the alanon program here. It's the steps. They work, if you work it. When someone says "do the work" -- if they are not talking about the steps, then what are they talking about? Rhetorical question.
One can try to "do" alanon or "implement" alanon or "practice" alanon. But it's not a "performance" so to speak. It's to be authentic. Change. It's change for the intention, the desire, the motivation, to get better.
In my experience, someone who comes to alanon is supposed to feel angry, sad, hurt, scared, fear, anxiety, and more. It's normal. What alanon teaches us is that we can make change so that those things do not overcome or consume us. If the alcoholic is still going to drink...I don't have to an anxiety attacks. OK, how? Step one, step two, step three, detachment, both physical and emotional, not enabling/engaging/contributing, etc. If I focus on those first three steps -- after acceptance comes surrender. After surrender comes letting go. If you achieve acceptance...you can then get past the anger. You can then go through the sadness. You can then not be consumed by fear, and handle the fear, and go through it. And so on and so on.
As far as pity...pity is overrated. LOL. In my experience, people tend to think pity for the alcoholic is supposed to be like pity in every other circumstance. This is a unique, enigmatic, progressive, cunning, baffling, insidious, and decimating disease. It isn't and can't be like anything else. This is addiction. It is not cancer. It is not a peanut allergy. It is not male pattern baldness. So, I don't think one can expect it to be, feel, or sound like a traditional, normal definition or occurrence.
The word "pity" comes from the Old French word, meaning...pite compassion...as a feeling, what do we feel? Compassion? Sorrow? Sadness? What else? Why? Because of the experience of another, pain, suffering, struggling, etc. Well, another thing pity is -- what many people don't get -- is "understanding". But, there is also an element of regret. It causes regret. Also disappointment. Disappointment is the byproduct. What about shame? Think about that. For me, it does not have to be about pity. For me there is far more important than pity. For me -- it's acceptance and compassion. One thing I feel when I walk into face to face alanon meetings is compassion. The people in that room know exactly what I know, they feel what I feel, they have seen what I see, and so on.
When a person is looking to achieve all of these things...there is one thing they have to do...get to work! Go back to the beginning. Step One. And I used to say, "When you think you are done with one...go back and do it again."
Thanks for sharing.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
YES the AMA HAS DEEMED IT AS SUCH AND IT IS NOT UP TO ME TO DISAGREE as The symptoms of alcoholism meet the established criteria to be called a disease
Good point Betty. As much as for me it is a fact, I have seen most people "accept" it "intellectually" as I spoke about, but in the end they still have the mindset "they chose the bottle over me" or "they don't have to drink, they chose to" or "they can stop if they really want to" and more of the like. On a certain level I agree with the last one, LOL. When the alcoholic really wants to -- that's when they will -- and they will do whatever they have to. But it doesn't matter -- it is a disease.
AMA, all the proof, everything. Some people can't get past the anger, resentment, the rage, the disappointment, the wanting what they want, etc. -- and they just don't get to absolute and complete acceptance.
That's why we go to meetings. LOL.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
Yes - I accept it's a disease. As Betty points out, smarter minds than mine have deemed it a disease, with no cure. Recovery is not a cure, but a daily reprieve from the obsession, one day at a time, through abstinence. This applies to both AA & Al-Anon. For me, when I accepted that those I love had a disease which affected them mentally, spiritually, emotionally and physically, it wasn't a 'hall pass for bad behavior'. Acceptance of the disease concept freed me up to work on me and how this disease had affected me.
Step One is about admission, surrender and acceptance. All Twelve Steps give us the tools to practice acceptance, change, growth, healing and dealing. Step One starts with WE to remind each of us we are not alone. When we embrace powerlessness, we are freeing ourselves up to make room for change, healing and growth.
Feelings are real. We are not in control of what we feel - anger, sadness, loss, grief, etc. - they are real. But feelings are not facts, and they do change, pass, etc. My personal stance is I am entitled to feel whatever is in me, but I am not entitled to react/act badly because of them. I am a big believer in walking away from chaos/drama instead of engaging. This applies to all people, not just those with this disease. I run from crazy and controlling people as fast as I possibly can - not really - but I do go out of my way to avoid them with as much courtesy and respect possible.
I am a huge believer in Keeping It Simple. Recovery is a process and we're looking for progress not perfection. My best tactic when new in recovery of dealing with my A was to avoid them if I felt tense, angry, etc. There was no in-depth strategy to act tolerant, loving, kind or ............. - I just deployed avoidance as I knew I was a bit insane and did not want to add more chaos/drama to the home, family, situation. Walking away time and time again became a great tool for me until I progressed in the steps, and gained more tools. There is no 'right answer' for recovery step work or for changing reacting to responding - it comes through practice and more practice.
I love what Freetime said - compassion came with time and recovery. My situation is similar - I had no doubt that my A(s) loved me - they just could not change for me. Quite honestly, as I am more sane and secure, I really don't want anyone to change for me....I want others to change for themselves, just as we learn to do in Al-Anon.
I am a big time research person and love to compare words that folks often use interchangeably. I love this explanation about the difference between pity and compassion. It may (or may not) give you some insight...https://chopra.com/articles/the-difference-between-compassion-and-pity It really helped me at a point where I was stuck in 'paralysis from over-analysis and thinking'...
Each and every time I got hung up when working the steps, my sponsor prodded me to keep it simple, and if necessary, take a break and come back to 'it'. She always encouraged me to take good care of me, take a walk, play with my dog, something for a mental break. Recovery can be hard work, but the rewards have been so worth it for me. As always, take what you like and leave the rest.
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Yes, I do and it sunk in by degrees. This acceptance helped me greatly with detachment and in place of anger grew compassion. When one looks at the consequences of alcoholism, it strikes me that no one who had the power to would choose to harm themselves that way. The indignity of alcoholism is to me anyway the worst part of it. Who would really choose to be exposed in such ways as alcoholism dictates if they could indeed simply stop? Aside from the formal diagnosis of the AMA I accept it because I have seen it, it makes sense to me and when I work within that understanding, I am kinder to myself and those around me. That is all the confirmation I need. Keep coming back
Thank you all for your responses, they have really helped. I am so grateful for this board and the knowledge that someone will read and reply with understanding.
Yes, I do accept that alcoholism is a disease. In addition to the science behind it, more importantly because I have witnessed it with my own eyes. There is no other logical explanation in my mind when someone does the same thing over and over and over again despite the apparent consequences. I do believe that once someone has some recovery under their belt then picking up first drink/drug is a choice, after that they lose the ability to choose again. I don't like the word pity... to me it sends the message poor poor pitiful you, incapable of looking after things yourself therefore I must help you. This got me into a lot of trouble, jumping into rescue.
However, I have great compassion for the struggle. Compassion and pity are very different. I strive to hold the belief that we are all capable of change...in our own time and our own way. Not my way. In the meantime, I love, pray, and hold out hope for my loved ones who are struggling with addiction. In the meantime, I have plenty of m own work to do on myself so that despite what the people I love dearly are doing or not doing, I will be ok.
If someone had, say, lung cancer, and yet they kept on smoking, refused to show up for their treatment, and belittled you for being concerned, you'd still feel sad that they had cancer, but my bet is that you'd also feel angry, impatient, exasperated, etc. So it's no wonder that we tend to feel that way towards the alcoholic who's not in recovery. That's my take on it.
also believe we have one too 100% .. just like we did the alcs too have to reach a place of becoming Entirely ready .. we go thru our process and they unfortunately sometimes have to go thru theirs. Since being restored to sanity also means being restored to clearer thinking dont believe they are sane Either .. Many of us didnt make it thru the doors until we exhausted ourselves trying everything else first .. and until we were tired of pain .. and when we first came in we couldnt hear others when they said we keep the focus on us and not on the alcs.
when it comes to keeping other programs and professionals anonymous agree when we read they belong in alanon only if the professional individual is working specifically on themselves and not out to counsel others. believe it all comes down to layers of understanding which is why its imoortant to keep an open mind .. heart .. easy to think we can reach a point of knowing enough or everything as if there is nothing left to understand or another perception we could possibly grow in ..
i Finally understand this piece through a meeting here f2f a few weeks back. 2 newcomers who looked hopeless desperate and like they were feeling alone and overwhelmed .. one of our beautiful long time members attempted to give them hope ? good intentions but she did so by bringing in professionals. Mentioned she used to be a professional herself and knows we are responsible for our own behaviors and feelings .. aww looks of despair on the newcomers faces .. the fear of being powerless .. i opened the h42day book to the page on Responsibility .. an insightful reminder of the word broken apart .. Respond Ability .. along with the line in the beginning our ability to respond isnt there .. over time her ability grew. a gentle reminder that brought a glimmer of hope back to their faces .. spiritual Encouragement not discouragement .. it hit me after .. thats .. why .. we dont bring in aca or aa or any other .. not because they arent good or honest helpful programs but because we keep the focus on alanon and keep the program boundaries in place. we dont replace alanon .. we read in f2f meets we understand better than perhaps few can ..
very much still growing in understanding .. definitely a process never an event .. unless we lose our humiity ..
-- Edited by MeTwo2 on Sunday 2nd of September 2018 08:37:52 PM
-- Edited by MeTwo2 on Sunday 2nd of September 2018 08:39:20 PM
WOW, Betty, thank you for sharing what the AMA said about alcoholism being a disease....I did not know that...It makes sense, though because the one with the addiction will go to hell and back to get their "fix" be it booze or drugs and they slowly kill themselves with it...the ones with better desire to survive, manage to get into recovery, but still...%s of relapsing are quite great, I hear....so yea, it makes sense to call it a disease.....disease is any condition, IMO, that causes "dis-ease" in the body, mind or spirit....I watch my beautiful brother killing himself, hes my bestie...we love each other very much, but he can't stop doing something that he KNOWS breaks my heart, so I have to detach/distance myself not from HIM, but his sickness.....the drinking does not define him, but it is killing him....
Its a disease like no other. If your husband had cancer the likelihood is your care and compassion would accepted and the correct course of action. Alcoholism, its the exact opposite. Its hands off the reigns that helps. Its a different kind of love needed here. Its tough love, tough for both of you. Soft love is dangerous, thats any kind of softening his consequences, bailing him out of trouble. talking to him trying to control him, mothering him, not taking the proper course of action even if its the hardest course of action like calling the police if hes violent or abusive. Alcoholics need consequences the proper consequences more than any other human in my view. It drives change and gets them closer to change. Loving an alcoholic is hard and tough and takes us right out our comfort zone but often we need to look into our own motives and behaviours. We need to find where we have been manipulative, blaming, using the alcoholic as a scapegoat for all our problems. Often the behaviours are mirrored and for me the proper love could only come with opening my eyes to the disease and how it had effected me and made me driven by fear and seeking approval from others constantly.
Hi, this is one of the step 1 questions i'm struggling with. I would appreciate a stear if any of you could.
The exact question in the paths to recovery book is, 'do I accept that alcoholism is a disease? How does that change how I deal with a drinker?'
I think I accept that it's a disease. It certainly has the hallmarks of a serious illness which gets worse. But to be honest I don't think it changes how I deal with my drinker. I am trying to follow Al anon now because nothing else has worked for me so far, but I still feel angry, sad, hurt, anxious at the behaviour of my drinker. I certainly don't feel pity.
Will I come to feel pity? Is this something that comes slowly? If my husband had, say, cancer, I like to think I would listen to him and the emotional turmoil he would be in. I would prepare healthy meals, sort out his medication, bring him cups of tea etc. I don't feel any such compassion for alcoholism.
I'm late to the party and I haven't read the other responses as I respect that everyone has a variance of this idea.
Yes .. I accept that alcoholism is a 4 fold disease .. mental, physical, emotional and spiritual bankruptcy and my response as the sig other, parent, child is based upon the fact I'm trying to compensate for something I can't.
I can't view it as cancer .. you know you has cancer and choose not to be treated that's a different issue because you can see, touch, smell even it smells like decay to me from the inside out. I have always noticed that odor. Addiction for me is rooted in mental health which then has physical symptoms that hit someone in relationships, financially and sometimes even to the point of some kind of incarcerations. It evolves over time to be more and more of a life robber. That's not to say some people don't have good relationships with their A's .. it happens it's this is opinion based upon experience with the type of addicts I have dealt with .. not something I'm willing to deal with long term.
I did not stay with my XAH because honestly regardless of the vows .. maybe that's horribly selfish of me however I was dying very literally in that relationship and so was he .. we did not bring out the best in each other and it would have taken me 500k alanon meetings to reach a point I think I would have been willing to wait and there were not that many meetings available and the day doesn't offer that kind of time for me.
Yes .. addiction is a disease .. it affects everyone just like a pebble that ripples outwards. Stay because it's what you choose to do .. and live your best life .. don't stay because it's your duty .. there are others who will wear that mantle for whatever reason. Stay because you feel good about you when you are with your partner. Stay because you understand what that means in 5 - 10 - 15 years if nothing changes and it could swing either way .. that is his path to walk not yours .. stay because you want to .. not because you "should". I don't regret leaving and honestly I think we are both alive today because I didn't stay. It was good for him and it was definitely good for me.
For me I came to those discoveries over many years of working steps as well as working with a sponsor and meetings .. it was self discovery and I found out that leaving wasn't the worse thing that I could do.
Is addiction a disease .. absolutely .. it's dreadful and nothing I would wish on my worst enemy.
Hugs S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
have to say as well with no criticism .. i hear alot of i thinks or i dont thinks which is somewhat like i knows etc ...reminded of reads we grow a deeper understanding of steps .. traditions .. an yes recovery and disease .. by working steps .. food for thought .. if we dilute the program tho .. may not .. only know our reads share when we think we know .. we arent humble .. aka open to learning more .. lose our possibility of understanding deeper .. only sayin ..great remind to try to keep it open .. good thread with honest open communication ..
