Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Grr... grr... agh... Alanon of old...

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

you know, David, I always found "disease" and "defects" a bit offensive...I like sickness or illness or just addiction (on alcoholic or drug addict) but yea, we who were impacted, "sickness or Illness" sounds much better and to the "defects" I call it coping skills, skewed thinking, survival traits, but that is my take.....and yea, I practice my own personal responses and I work to REspond rather than REact to life.....thanks for the great share.........

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

One of the alanon principles is that alanon is a program of attraction, not promotion. That said, while I've always been in favor of the alanon pamphlets, brochures, etc., being available to professionals -- so that they can be made available in hospitals, doctors offices, social service agencies, etc. -- there is certain "promotion" endeavors that I would not be in favor of. This has been discussed in a group conscience in various meetings I attend. Be that as it may -- I think one can be an ambassador, and even more importantly one can advocate, when warranted.

I walked into a Superior Court Judge's chamber once, and saw alanon beginners packs, pamphlets, etc., on his desk in a stand-up holder. That made me feel good. I know many professionals who are advocates for alanon.

All of this -- is a good thing. Miracles happen inside the rooms of face to face alanon meetings. Thus, when appropriate...make it available.

The help, the support, the wisdom, the experience, the guidance, and more, that newcomers/beginners need -- can be found in the alanon program.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

An interesting title David. I only think of alanon of old with gratitude. For me it's heaven sent all of it for it's imperfections. I'm so very grateful that all the stars aligned for aa and alanon to exist today. Also I think the word disease is a huge help for those effected because isn't it acknowledgement by the medical profession that it fits in this category? It's an important category because it takes away the previous viewpoint that alcoholism was a weakness or badness or evil. That's progress.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

I agree LC program changes and grows, as do the members because Tradition 2 clearly places HP in control

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

What I find comforting, and very telling -- is that the steps, rarely, very rarely change. I don't remember the history, but the steps might still be the very original ones that Bill W. eventually came forth with after all of his work.

The principles also, very rarely change. I like that they can stand the test of time...and are universal.

I am sure different people interpret things differently of course.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

smile Bo... I am still finding boundaries here. I have bin to Stepping Stones- and in my early years steeped myself in the founding principles of the movement.

Lois Remembers, the book, and the Lois movie of recent times- brilliant.

Hotrod, especially seems to allow members the chance- to test out our group conscience-in a gentle way- and to find our feet...

Progress not perfection- at group level.

In the alcoholic situation was was always going to get things wrong. No way out of the disease cry ...

I have been timid at times- and almost invisible; other times I need to test the limits- in a gentle way.

I think this is what creates loving caring detachment- serenity... group unity and purpose too... aww ...

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

David, this is an alanon forum, and not being a member of AA, I don't feel qualified to speak to anything from the AA perspective. That said, I have friends who are members of each, and we are close. I don't count them as program friends, they are simply friends. Good friends.

Be that as it may, first, I don't see anything I said as having anything to do with boundaries, Betty allowing members the chance to test out a group conscience, or anything related to this group, this forum, etc. I was simply speaking to the steps and the principles, and how they are a constant, and universal. That's all. So, forgive me, I don't understand what you are saying in relation to my post. Alanon of "old" and changes, and whatever else -- and my point is that the steps and the principles are not new. They don't change.

Second, while both alanon and AA are founded on the same 12 steps -- except for one word -- and I can only speak to the alanon program; the alanon methodology and perspective is a different perspective. In many of the meetings I attend, the opening asks members of AA to focus on the alanon approach and the alanon perspective. The opening asks for members of other fellowships to remain anonymous so that everyone can focus on the alanon program and the alanon approach to recovery. While this forum may not adhere to the alanon principles, this is an alanon forum, and I come here for the alanon program, perspective, and recovery. While I find it interesting to read the perspectives of AA members, doing so in light of and within the context of alanon, and this forum, for me, sometimes doesn't connect. Thus, I might miss your point, and with regard to the post above, I have.

Thank you, and have a great holiday weekend.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Ho Bo... I am not a member of AA, and never have bin... I am a member of ACA and am on that side of the fence...

one time I wondered what lay between the radical at one end, and the fundamentalist on the other. Not much really. But I plucked a word out of the air and used it- essence- essential.

Getting back to the rooms... I was told to look for the similarities, and not the differences.

In my community people spoke in words of one syllable- and my family- not at all. So I had to go home and think about that one. biggrin ...

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

I reflect on Al-Anon 'of old' much as stated above - with reverence, awe, respect and extreme gratitude. I qualify for probably all of the programs, work 2 of them. I love that even then, when nobody had a solution for living with the disease, there was a keep it simple approach. The only requirement for membership is to be concerned about the drinking in a family member or friend.

I have great gratitude for AA also - it saved my life. Yet, from the Al-Anon perspective, if it weren't for AA, there would be no Al-Anon program. I do believe in a higher power who's got a greater plan than I am in the know of, and that higher power designed what we are gifted with today - a variety of programs that help us heal/deal with an illness with no cure.

I too was told to look for the similarities and not the differences. The power of recovery is amazing and miraculous. I was in an airport many years ago travelling for business, when the loud speaker asked that any friends of Bill W. report to a certain place. All of us in AA know what that means - there is a fellow program member in trouble.

I was awe-struck that we had more than 40 persons who all showed up. We were not in a formal meeting, we did not have an opening, a meeting leader, the preamble or anything 'formal' yet, we had a meeting for a member who was in crisis and needed support. For me, I do not care where I am or what the medium is, when anyone, any where reaches out for help, as a member of recovery, I will show up and offer a hand. That's what we do or so I learned.

Accepting I and all others are imperfect, but doing the best with what we have helps me set aside differences, and focus on the whole instead. To me, it's the informal meetings/opportunities to be of service that matter most for my service today. Practicing these principles in all our affairs tells me to suit up and show up each day and focus on what I can give vs. what I can take...

I am blessed to have access to tons of meetings. Most of our Al-Anon meetings are held in same places as the AA meetings. We come together for causes more than other areas, and I'm grateful for that. Most of our conferences are joint + Alateen & Alatot and there are even joint meetings offered. There is enough variety for anyone to find the meeting that best meets their needs/wants. Again, I view this as a part of a master plan for my own journey. We all must find our way best we can and I will also believe that 'any effort is better than no effort at all' and I am gifted spiritually based on what I give.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Oh that is great ESH Iam... reassuring...

This is much more about experience here at home... walking on eggshells, or walking in broken glass, at meetings, ler alone at home.

Not knowing what the rules, guidlelines and boundaries really are; which reflects directly back to the alcoholic home.

Issues in Alanon today where younger family members may be "double addicted" and whether we are allowed to talk about the other substances, for example.

Tradition 4 comes up a lot. And as a loyal Aalanon member I would not want meetings to be too far off the radar!

It's a balance.

More in my imagination, than in any group- is an old oldtimer saying- "pity party" or. "Poor me's.

I have a preference for emotion. And letting it out- when needed. And I like to see groups allowing for that.

I went to a large local funeral Friday. Hubby, kids and grand kids stood up there and gave eulogies. It was highly emotional. The place was packed out. Times have changed- and cultures too.

I have my second meeting coming up next week- to try and re-start the local group. THe local drug and alcohol clinician oversees a group with paid workers who serve family members. Picking up the vibes they would not refer people to Alanon. In NZ some practitioners have a strong aversion to the spiritual content of our programme.

I believe that Alanon works in tandem with professionals. If members are seeking professional help I do not offer advice, on that score. But I am all for it. I believe strongly in options and choices.

My sil has just been through treatment. Stateside I became her beach buddy and we went to AA meetings together. The family are coming over here for Christmas this year and I am excited by it. My Sil is ACoA too... [without the programme] but this created a strong family bond.

I cringe sometimes when other family members "discuss the case". But I sense strongly that my involvement is appreciated, if not understood. And I tend to demonstrate my concern- rather than to discuss a rather touchy subject.

I big word for me this year has bin "adult". and I use the word as a verb, rather than a noun. The sense that we kin talk about 'big-people' stuff... that we are in the group- in the club, as it were.

i was interested and just a tad concerned about new members coming in here to this MIP Alanon. No great cause for concern. But then again, it comes down to balance. As a man in the group I want a newcomer 'to hear my voice' and for me to touch on my story. So there is a welcome from many and a sense of trust. A safe place to be and to share... ...to see the newcomer come back, to to be surrounded with loving support, is a really good sign... a sign of a robust group, a healthy group. smile ...

This share has bin a bit longer. This "my thread". I let my higher power take over... and I do what I have to and what I need to...

It's Sunday Morning here- and cold rather than cool... so far the weekend has gone really well... aww ...

smile Thanks... smile ...

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

David, my reference to AA was not inferring that you were a member. I could have stated my point more clearly. My point was that, being that AA is "the other side of the aisle" so to speak, I was simply saying -- I can only speak to, and my perspective only comes from, almost a quarter century in the rooms of alanon. That's all. The alanon of old to me is the alanon of new. People come and go, pamphlets change, new ones come out, new books, new meetings, old meetings close and cease to exist/meet...and so goes the ebb and flow...but what remains is the 12 steps and the principles of alanon. That is just my perspective.

Thanks for the comments and perspective. I find it interesting and thought provoking -- so thank you.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene