The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
My boyfriend had agreed to stop drinking around me. He did this and I appreciated it a lot. But I knew he was drinking when not around me. I didnt worry too much about that: I went to alanon and he respected my boundaries. But i think that his not drinking around me while not being ready to actually quit caused him to resent me and caused me to feel massive distance.
Anyway, we went on holiday to visit his family together, which was a new test. He was not drinking but would get SO angry at nothing, if I brought up any tiny thing, like "stop making fun of me it's hurting my feelings" he got offended and said I was always trying to change him, said it was weird that this was hurting me. Which felt odd, considering it was just me setting a boundary. Then after a couple months of not having much sex, I observed "your sex drive as been low lately". We'd been apart for 2 weeks so I thought surely now he'd want to...but he didn't when I brought it up, He shut down and said nothing. And so I pushed a bit, saying "Don't you find?'" and he got angry with me, saying he doesn't know what to say and why did I need to bring this up. I know from experience that no sex can mean a repressed resentment, or non-communication, so I wanted to address it and give the opportunity to discuss and feel closer. He just got angry. I felt shut down, helpless, embarrassed, alone. Both nights I fell asleep crying. I had been looking forward to spending this holiday with him and now it felt like I just kept ruining it and making him mad.
When we weren't fighting I was walking on eggshells, and I suppose he was too. I honestly just wanted my happy boyfriend back. The next day, he made the comment "I feel pulled in all directions". Turns out this meant drinking w his friends vs. not drinking w me. I told him to drink then, that there was no point in not drinking if he was drinking when he wasn't with me and if it was going to make him miserable when he was with me. And so he did.
The very next day, he tells me he is going to go drop off the rental car at the apartment, and we will take the bus to the restaurant....so that he can drink a bit. I feel totally betrayed and scared: one minute he's not drinking and the next he is going to these lengths to drink? I tell him this makes me feel uncomfortable. He FLIPS OUT. Saying that he just wants to have a drink, he can't always guess my expectations, one day he can drink the next he can't. He was vicious with his anger, I was basically begging for compassion: explaining I was trying hard and just wanted to discuss the issue so we could navigate the drinking and this was new for me. I apologize in the end, understanding his point of view, agreeing I shouldnt have brought it up.....that makes him more angry. To make it all worse, we are at his grandmother's house with his whole family. I ask him if he still wants to be with me, since he's acting in this mean way. He says he is wondering the same about me, and that he wants me but doesn't want these conversations. He says he won't take responsibility for that decision.
I leave. He drives me to my AA meeting (yes I am sober lol). I make friends there who support me and hang out with me and offer me a place to stay. I try to change my flight. It's too expensive. I feel like I am in crisis. I calm down. I decide to go see him at the bar with his friends just to let him know I'm going to go home to sleep. When I show up he is drunk, apologizing, telling me how important I am, how much he loves me, how hard it is, how I am the one he wants, that he gets confused, etc. I had been feeling so sad and heartbroken and craving connection that this felt so good to me. I didn't even care he was drunk. It was like having my sweet boyfriend again. How messed up is that?
The next day we had a normal day, where he got drunk at night with his friends (I'm not mad about that, I understand that this is way bigger than me), and then was super sweet with me, telling me I am his main motivation, I am so important to him, he wants me to believe him. Etc. This made me feel good.
Had he not displayed that affection I think I wouldv'e broken up with him. Now we are back in our city and I feel like a shell of a human. So scared he will leave me but also so scared of not leaving him. So scared of being together, unsure how we will make it since we can't even talk. Wondering what him drinking will be like for us. Wondering why I can't walk away. Saddened at the thought of a life without him. I have no idea what my goals are or what my life is going to be and I am scared.
Glad you're here uhohcheerio. I'm sorry you're scared and hurting.
Beings you have a recovery program of your own (AA), I think perhaps you know that your boyfriend, while not drinking, was being a dry drunk. Without a recovery program to support him through not drinking, his spiritual disease is going to lash out at any convenient target.
You probably also recognize the behavior when he started drinking again and all of a sudden he loves you and thinks you're amazing, etc.
I don't know how fresh you are in your recovery in AA. What does your sponsor recommend about being in a relationship? Also, does your sponsor recommend you attend Al-Anon?
I tread cautiously around this, as I'm not an alcoholic. I can only go by what I've heard in open AA meetings and from dual members occasionally sharing at Al-Anon meetings - but for you, what's most important is your personal recovery through AA. As I've heard many times from recovering alcoholics, to drink again is to die. Your sponsor may have more insight on this situation if you've been working with him or her closely and honestly. I DO think Al-Anon principles could help you, as well, but to be honest, I've only seen AA members enter Al-Anon after having several years sobriety and recovery under their belt with AA.
Regarding your boyfriend's alcoholism: You cannot control it. You cannot cure it. And nothing you say or do will ever be the cause of his drinking.
Putting yourself first is your priority. Remember your boyfriend has his own Higher Power, as do you.
Hi Aloha! Thank you so much for taking the time to answer. I am actually 14 years sober, which is partly why I am closer to an alanon than an A, in a way. The drinking cycle is all so distant from me. It's hard to remember. I used to be very involved in AA, but for the past few years mostly go to my homegroup and talk to my sponsor only. It is healthier for me in a way, since I tended to hide in AA. But yes you're right that my sobriety IS at stake too here....I have considered smoking pot as a way to medicate.
Is it normal to be both scared he will leave me AND not accepting of his behaviour? what is wrong with me :(
Thanks for clarifying. Again, I hate to overstep people's sponsors, but yeah, if you're feeling pretty grounded with your AA recovery then Al-Anon could be a good next step for you.
The only requirement for membership is that there be a drinking problem with a family member or friend.
Have you been to any Al-Anon meetings?
Yes, what you're feeling is normal. I equate a lot of those feelings to my being co-dependent and wanting for everyone around me to just be "OK" so I can feel comfortable. I can have issues with abandonment, so I can tell you any time my exA used to threaten our marriage, I would get terrified, even while at the same time knowing deep in my heart that it would probably be better for the both of us if we weren't in each other's lives in the way we were.
Glad you're here. I'm sure some of our other members will have some amazing input, themselves.
There's nothing wrong with you - you've just been affected by the disease of alcoholism - cunning, baffling, and powerful.
Welcome, and while this is an alanon forum...congratulations on 14 years! What an inspiration, and I admire your commitment and drive so much. Thank you for sharing that.
That said, being that you are in AA, you at least understand the 12-step world. However, while our 12 steps are virtually word for word the same as the 12 steps in AA, they are viewed, practiced, and learned from a very different perspective. The learning process here is somewhat different in that the "issues" and "problems" we face are very different. In my many years in alanon, I've come to know and have become friends with many "double winners" as they call it. I take a different view and don't view it as double of any sort. From my perspective, the problem that drives a person to AA is one problem; and the problem that drove a person to alanon, is another separate and distinct problem. In the opening of many meetings, you will hear them say alanon is a different perspective, alanon is a different experience, the loved ones of an alcoholic have a different experience, etc. Is there overlap? Sure there is. Is there commonality? Of course. Pain is one common aspect. Being sick and tired of being sick and tired is another. Having the "enough" is one as well. Rock bottom is rock bottom, and both people at rock bottom simply want to go in one direction -- they feel they can only go in one direction -- up! LOL. I am not oversimplifying the analogy, and in reality, "change" is the common theme for both. I know the similarities and I know the differences. I get it.
That being the case, obviously, you are "in it" -- you are "in the soup" so to speak. Obviously, his drinking bothers you. That's all that is needed for you to be in alanon. In my experience, an alcoholic who "stops" drinking around a loved one, around situations where they are together, etc., yes, they absolutely begin to build up resentment. It manifests and compounds. Hence, it is PROGRESSIVE. Ironic, isn't it? Why this happens is irrelevant. But, in my experience, it happens and it is very common. My wife, stopped drinking around me in certain situations. It didn't work. Then she agreed to stop drinking to her normal extent -- she was going to control her drinking -- in those situations. It didn't work. She then decided to "make up for her limited drinking" at other times so that she could not drink or drink less when she was around me, in those situations, etc. Surprise...it didn't work! In reality, it can't, but that's a story for another time. All of this is happening to you because...he wants to drink...and he can't around you! He is not getting what he wants, and the agitation, resentment, anger, being on edge, comes from a place of withdrawal, not getting to drink, etc. It is a vicious and PROGRESSIVE cycle, he gets resentful, you feel distanced, withdrawn, alone, he gets agitated, which further pushes you away, and so on. It's like quicksand.
You are also starting to feel the guilt element -- you ruining the trip, not letting him do what he wants, causing him to be mad, and so on. Yes, very common -- it's our role, our contribution, a form of enabling, certainly wanting to be a people pleaser. Been there done that...and didn't like it. We do things because we want to make the other person feel better. Yet, it causes us to feel worse. It causes us pain. Even if we feel better, it is for a brief moment, a fleeting moment, and then we feel worse, pain, etc.
Living with -- or being immersed in, with, etc. -- an alcoholic is absolutely like walking on eggshells. I did it, 24/7...for 5 years!!! You want what you want -- him not to drink. He doesn't want that. You want him to be happy, and you want your happy bf back. That's not who he is right now. You are trying to make it happen. But, you can't. You know why. He will not quit UNLESS and UNTIL HE wants to. Not YOU. I am sorry for everyone, but it is what it is. My wife said to me many times that she felt "conflicted" and "pulled in all directions" -- between not drinking with me, and drinking, with her friends, our friends, socially, when she wanted to, etc. That's part of the dance. It is nothing more than excuses and denial. Even if real, it's more banter and posturing -- for what? Drinking. Rationalize, justify, vacillate, defend, etc.
I think it's very telling about the rental car/bus/restaurant incident. So he can drink a bit? Sounds like going to an extreme, well thought out, premeditated, and well planned -- to drink a bit. Telling. Very telling in my experience. I agree and understand how you lfeel -- he was going to these lengths just to drink a bit? You engaging, trying to tell him how you feel, express your feelings -- that is you trying to apply logic to an illogical person and illogical situation. That will fail every single time unfortunately. Part of the disease is how they deflect, blame, and turn it around on us -- him saying, he just wants to have a drink, he can't always guess my expectations, one day he can drink the next he can't, and so on. It sounds so reasonable doesn't it? It sounds like we are the ones being unreasonable, and in our fragile state, we believe it. Yes, the manipulation, and then there you are begging for compassion. I did that too! I was so in it that when my wife cheated on me -- I apologized to her and told her I would "do better" -- and that's how sick I was. You want to discuss it with him, explain yourself, have a meaningful conversation, etc. That is your sickness -- and I know sickness may sound like a harsh word in this context, but as long as you keep trying to do that, that is sickness, unmanageable, control, and so on.
So, where does this leave you? Go to alanon meetings. As many as you can, and as often as you can. Get an alanon sponsor. You are right -- how messed up is this? You need to get off the rollercoaster and get grounded, centered, focused on YOU so that you can get better, get healthy. It's so interesting that "Had he not displayed that affection I think I wouldv'e broken up with him." -- interesting in that either you had your focus at this one moment, or you were just reacting in a desperate, impulsive, unthinking way. Were you going to break up with him -- hoping he would chase after you? Telling you everything you wanted to hear? Think about that. Anyway, I am so sorry you feel like a shell of a human. It is time for you to get back, get healthy, get better...it is up to YOU!
The being so scared he will leave me you, but being scared of not leaving him is YOU screaming at YOU that it is time to get help. Stop projecting and get to a meeting. The people in alanon -- as opposed to AA -- have been exactly where you have been. Keep your head where your feet are. One day at a time. Go! Now!
And...keep coming back (to face to face alanon meetings). All the best.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
Hi and (((hugs))). As others here who have alcoholic family members / loved ones / friends etc. I found hope and help in this program. I want to share that your post spoke a lot to me and reminded me quite a bit of my own relationship with my now ex, who is an alcoholic. I cannot really tell you the utter confusion and craziness I was drawn into while in this relationship, pretty deep denial on my part also and more, and unfortunately I am one who lost myself completely in this relationship and that's why I need this program and I'm so grateful it exists... Regarding angry-sorry, mean-loving and all the other incongruent parts of my ex, I must say I always believed what he said, I guess because I wanted to believe it, and I disregarded his actions all the time no matter how they were incongruent with his reasonable-sounding words... It really seems he believed all the great promises himself, too. But in this program we learn to focus on ourselves and work on the one person we can actually change which is ourselves...
I often felt really trapped in that relationship and in life in general (still do sometimes) and I so get you about feeling like a shell... I have spent years like that and now that I'm getting better and actually enjoying life a bit I am pretty amazed I lived like that for so long. Well, I survived - didn't do almost no living for a long time.
I really hope you find a f2f Al-Anon meeting and attend... This program has been a blessing for me and while I still have tons on unresolved stuff in me, stuff to work on, I don't just survive anymore, most of the time.
Wow Bo!!! Thank you so much for your long response. You really addressed everything I said and I really appreciate it. I have a already re-read your message 3 times and plan on continuing to do so. It's so hard for me to get a solid perspective of myself right now...so focused on him.... so convinced I need him and our life together. Your message helps me break all of it down and look at it from a saner perspective. I want recovery so bad. There arent many alanon meetings where I am, tonight I will go to AA and tomorrow I will go to Alanon, woohoo. Part of your message which helped too was that you call out alcoholic behaviour for what it is...meaning I am not crazy or imagining things! woo. I am seeing him tonight and I am scared. I want to tell him he can drink and that I am letting it all go but I am also scared of his reaction to that. Maybe that is part of the soup? So I am not doing anything and going to be still for a while.
Aline thanks so much for relating and validating many parts of my story. It's so confusing indeed!! Trying to make sense of it all....believing them...watching the sincerity in their eyes and not following through... I am aware that I have a lot of work to do, I don't know where to start. I am really scared. It helps to hear your story, that you are on the other side!
Wow Bo!!! Thank you so much for your long response. You really addressed everything I said and I really appreciate it. I have a already re-read your message 3 times and plan on continuing to do so. It's so hard for me to get a solid perspective of myself right now...so focused on him.... so convinced I need him and our life together. Your message helps me break all of it down and look at it from a saner perspective. I want recovery so bad. There arent many alanon meetings where I am, tonight I will go to AA and tomorrow I will go to Alanon, woohoo. Part of your message which helped too was that you call out alcoholic behaviour for what it is...meaning I am not crazy or imagining things! woo. I am seeing him tonight and I am scared. I want to tell him he can drink and that I am letting it all go but I am also scared of his reaction to that. Maybe that is part of the soup? So I am not doing anything and going to be still for a while.
You are very welcome. When I first walked into the rooms of alanon, there was someone, a few people, who were there for me. They saved my life. While this isn't a conference approved, official alanon forum, you can take what you like and leave the rest. Depending on the topic, there are some people here who are really worthwhile reading. It is hard to get a solid perspective of yourself right now...BECAUSE...you have no focus and clarity on YOU. You have developed very strong, very dependent co-dependent tendencies. I am sorry there aren't many alanon meetings where you are. I am grateful, and tend to be spoiled in that there are dozens and dozens here in my county, in Northern NJ. You are not going crazy or imagining things. You are being manipulated, whether intentional or not. The alcoholic and the disease throws many things at us -- we face -- guilt, blame, manipulation, anger, hate, love, begging, bullying, deflection and denial, negotiations, gaslighting, and more. Yes, our thinking becomes so distorted that we begin to question our own logic and intellect, and then we lose it!!! And eventually we question our own sanity...and some lose it!
Instead of telling him he can drink -- put the ball in his court. He's a big boy. Let it be his decision. Tell him it's up to him, and when he says/asks what you are going to do, think, say, are you going to be mad, etc. -- just tell him no, as long as everything is relatively calm, normal, etc., you will be "OK" for tonight. Then, start working the program, so you learn how to deal with this and get better.
uhohcheerio wrote:
Aline thanks so much for relating and validating many parts of my story. It's so confusing indeed!! Trying to make sense of it all....believing them...watching the sincerity in their eyes and not following through... I am aware that I have a lot of work to do, I don't know where to start. I am really scared. It helps to hear your story, that you are on the other side!
Forget about the serenity. We have an expression in alanon rooms...you know how to tell when an (active) alcoholic is lying? Their lips are moving. Focus on YOU. Start at the beginning. Go to the alanon meeting. If there are two, go to both of them! Find a sponsor. Keep going back.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
Welcome to MIP uhohcheerio! Glad you found us and glad that you joined right in. We have several 'double-winners' here (belonging to both AA & Al-Anon), so plenty of ESH to share. I congratulate you on your sobriety - I too am sober and when the disease struck those I love dearly and unconditionally, it rocked my world.
I too had distorted thinking and became obsessed - obsessed on 'fixing them' to the point that I lost myself in the process. Knowing about the 12 Steps and program from the AA side did not stop me from becoming crazy over the progressive disease in those I love. I resisted Al-Anon but came to a point where I needed the support and guidance of those who'd walked a mile in my shoes. I totally got AA and have been sober a long while - but when you are watching one you love self-destruct, it's a pain and situation that I just could not handle alone.
I also recommend engaging with Al-Anon. I found my tribe and found that AA helped me deeply understand my relationship with mind-altering substances and my obsession with being in an altered state and Al-Anon helped me deeply understand my relationship with self. I am blessed to have a sponsor who's also a double-winner - she came to AA by way of Al-Anon and I did the reverse.
For an alcoholic, one obsesses over the alcohol/substance. For an al-anon, one obsesses over the drinker. The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking. The only requirements for al-anon membership is troubled by the drinking in a friend or relative. In my home, I am the only one (of 4) to be in recovery, yet focusing on me and my willingness to be/do different has improved all areas of our family.
As I learned to focus on me, and put me first, I began to feel less crazy. As I began to feel less crazy, I learned how to detach with love and set healthy boundaries for self-protection. These were all healthy things, yet I missed the lessons earlier in life!!
There is always hope and help in recovery. Al-Anon is a gentle program and progress is always the goal. AA can be a bit more 'in your face' and the Al-Anon side really frowns on advice giving and opinions. Going to some meetings will give you a feel for the differences, assuming your city/area is similar to mine. Please keep coming back and know that you are now one of the family!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
uhohcheerio - if getting to Face to Face meetings for Al-Anon are not readily available, there are 2 here daily. If you look to the top left, you will find the schedule and the link to the meeting/chat room. And while MIP is not an official Al-Anon forum as Bo writes, most members who can do attend local Al-Anon meetings, and qualify to be here, just like you.
As in AA, each member is important as is their message - brand new or long-time member. As in AA, we do suggest to take what you like and leave the rest. As in AA, it's suggested to hang with winners - those who are working a program and that you keep coming back. Lastly, as in AA, when two or more members gather, it's an official meeting - no matter the location.
This group and the online meetings here saved me when I needed saving. I don't believe I am the only one who's gotten through difficult times/nights/moments with the help of the loving members here @ MIP. You are not alone and there tons of help and hope in recovery!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Aline thanks so much for relating and validating many parts of my story. It's so confusing indeed!! Trying to make sense of it all....believing them...watching the sincerity in their eyes and not following through... I am aware that I have a lot of work to do, I don't know where to start. I am really scared. It helps to hear your story, that you are on the other side!
I was thinking about what you said -- the sincerity, the promises, whatever else, and the not following through. That brought back so many memories for me. My wife promised, clearly and concisely told me all her plans, mapped out exactly what she was going to do, got on board so to speak with the initial steps, the first steps, the detox, the rehab, and so on. In the end, no, she never followed through as you called it. I could spend countless amounts of time telling you about all of the conversations she and I had, the open and honest conversations, the promises, the agreements, the professionals who were also involved at various points. In the end, what it meant for me was a lot of dejection, rejection, disappointment, me being upset, angry, scared, and so much more. Because, my focus was still on the alcoholic. I still wanted it to be true. I still hoped. And so on and so on.
At that point, I felt like a human ATM machine who was just giving out an endless supply of one last chance. Not one more chance. One last chance. There's a big difference. But, the one last chance -- was given, by me, over and over and over again. It was decimating to me. It was a lot of pain. However, we learn in the rooms of alanon...pain is inevitable...but suffering is optional. I had the choice, I could decide to suffer or not suffer. While I had to take the focus off the alcoholic...I also had to change my mindset. I had to consciously make a change, a paradigm shift, in my thinking, my entire thought process. While my wife was addicted to alcohol...I was addicted to...wanting to get back what we had before. I was addicted to getting her to stop. I was addicted to wanting what I wanted. I was addicted to trying to fix it, her, and so on. That was my disease, my sickness...and that was my addiction.
I had to clean and sober from my addiction. So, while I didn't need to go to AA or NA or anything of the like...the alanon program gave me a track to follow...and I did follow it. I did what I was told. I went to meetings. Meeting makers make it. They told me to try 90 in 90...90 meetings in 90 days...and I did it. I was told to do the readings, and I did. Every morning, every evening, and during the day, I read CTC and ODAT. I was told to get a sponsor. I did...and that accelerated my getting better exponentially. I would not have gotten better without having a sponsor.
I hope you can get to the meetings near you. Where I come from, including beginners meetings, there are about 45 meetings a week in the county where I live. I am lucky, and grateful.
That said, this program is also take what you like and leave the rest. It took time to get to where you are, and it will take time to get out of where you are. Little by slowly. Little by slowly. Change. Progress. It works if you work it, so work it, you are worth it.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
When I saw the title of your post I thought 'oh that sounds familiar!' I remember how confusing and painful it felt to be loved and accepted one minute and then rejected and seemingly loathed the next. I am so sorry that this is happening to you.
As I read your post I had a sense of your ability to see what was going on and also a sense of you connecting with your own feelings really well, even though it may not feel like it right now as you stand in the midst of crazy making behaviour. I very much doubt that you are crazy by the way!! I spent years rationalising what was happening with my husband, or at least trying to! Mostly it was all irrational!! I had lost touch and trust in what I was feeling and experiencing myself. Reading posts here and listening to others in Al Anon has helped me to reconnect with myself and to take care of myself - regardless of what others are choosing to do.
The most surprising thing is that my journey to recovery became fun!! It seems that I'm allowed to enjoy life - who knew??!!!! I'm allowed to laugh and dance and rediscovering those things that make me happy. I had no idea where to start at first so I started small and brought myself some nail polish. Within eighteen months I enrolled myself on a University course and loved every moment of it. The journey has been empowering and energising. It is not always easy, it feels very counterintuitive for me to put my own self care ahead of others, but I really do value these lessons so much.
Be gentle with yourself, and know that you are soooo worth looking after. I used to tell myself that since I can't control another person's behaviour, and why would I want to by the way, I can at least show them how much is possible and that life is fun and full of enjoyment by doing it for myself. . (Note - It is still easier for me to to do it for another person than it is to do it just just because I'm worth it!! )
I hope you keep coming back - it is good to see you here.
-- Edited by milkwood on Wednesday 15th of August 2018 12:14:40 AM
It is not always easy, it feels very counterintuitive for me to put my own self care ahead of others, but I really do value these lessons so much.
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