"I don't care what you think, you're here to change your behaviors because that is what is causing you problems."

hahaha!!! That is GREAT.

Yes, if our thinking is sick and we're in to seek help with our thinking, then many we should stop thinking and start listening.

Good share, Jerry,

                           I went to a treatment centre reunion this year. It was great since AA, Alanon, ACA, NA, CODA OA and others all get to share together. We all get to experience our commonality.  ...

Is it the same in the USA? Alanon and AA here have joint assemblies- but none of the other 12 step traditions?

There is a lot I could say abou my own experience in the treatment arena. What I think about it in general.

In theory the clinical scene and 12 Step groups should work together, in tandem- that being true- it is always a good topic of discussion in our groups...

our old treatment centre in AoNZ is long closed down.... Dealing with the illness- in terms of policy, resources, liasion, networking... is really important- essential. And Alanon plays a part in this- as a self help organisation.

I don't think we talk about it enough- maybe because people are uncertain of the boundaries...

...so then- we may have to create the boundaries.

6 or so years ago we had the CEO of Alanon over here- and he met with members of the southern most Alanon assembly. The way he approached this task- gave me a bead on what the boundaries might be... I learned heaps... so i am not scared...

of what to talk about and what not to...

he miharo ki a koe; ata marie.

Ata marie is 'good morning", or peaceful morning...

 

PS I lived close to the homeless when ah hit the city... getting out of that hole- I became a volunteer- saw it all... still looking for solutions...  ...

 

 

I was like everyone else coming thru the doors of Al-Anon and then I just had no idea how anything worked...I had to sit still and listen listen listen and then practice practice practice.  The elders were right when they talked about changing behaviors first and then the thinking and feelings would change after.  Still I didn't believe deeply and came to understand more after college and then joining the practice of Group Therapy as a therapist.  Wow the Changes!!  The elders were right.  (((hugs)))  

Thank you Jerry for this post,and your service,
I can so relate to all that you have shared here with behaverial health therapy,
It's great to know I only got to be willing to change my behavior the rest will follow,
A bht told me one time ,I could act my way into thinking,if I couldn't think my way into it

lookingup wrote:

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A bht told me one time ,I could act my way into thinking,if I couldn't think my way into it

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thank you lookingup...Love this!!! soo simple yet hard....i'm doing the cognitive behavior therapy on my own..researched on the net, etc., can't afford a real therapist, so I research and just practice practice better behavior..hoping my mind will follow...for the longest time, I thought I could "change my thinking--change my life"  well the 12 steps helps with the thinking, but I see, now, it is ACTION that is gonna get it for me...like Pavlov's dog, I must train me like I do my dogs....and that is repitition over and over the better approach...reading this thread has given me a new and hopeful perspective on how to change the undesirable parts of me....

Jerry, thank you for this insight and reminder. I am remembering the times, when living with alcoholism and its fallout, that I acted in ways I didn't feel. I did not feel loving, yet I tried to do the right thing by the person and not act on my hateful thoughts. I "acted as if" I loved them, even though I didn't feel that way at the moment. I took care of myself, even though some of my beliefs said this was wrong. Those actions in time proved to be the right ones, eventually getting me to detachment with love and self-love.

I didn't know at the time that it works if I work it... but it did.

 

 Hmmm... I really do think it comes as a package.

Emotions came first for me. And "Altered Attitudes Aid Recovery".

And the spiritual dimension- favoured by AA- depth psychology- Carl Jung.

We do need to act on all these things- make changes... willpower. We are power-less.

I believed that AA replaced the camaraderie of the bar. So Alanon helped break down the isolation and the stigma of the disease.

So group work is essential too.

 

 

I will be on this thread for a while because it is filled with experience I had after I stopped fighting the elders and sponsors and spirit of our program...I remember the night I just gave up fighting this and the whole body, mind and spirit change I felt a second later.  Jerry F was done...completely done and I became ready, willing and able to practice "Acting as if".  I was already good at walking any form of convenient bs which was a personality type of the alcoholic and alcoholic family and switching the focus became a no-brainer.  All I had to do was not want to die insane.  I had enough.  Mahalo ke Akua...Thank you God so very much.   (((hugs)))  

 

 

Thank you dear brother Jerry. I have been doing the same thing of late. Finally! I am done fighting life and the karma and all the BS that comes at me. I have dropped my sword and decided to stop resisting. I see now that resistance is hell. What I resist and fight shall persist. It has only been in the recent few months that I have seen this and just made the conscious decision to stop fighting things to step back, call for help, step back and approach it later. I, too, am done with fighting life and unwanted events and challenges or whatever I want to call them, I am done fighting it. I still catch myself going back to old patterns of fighting and protecting and resisting, but the good news is, I see it now and I stop and I make myself breathe, and I make myself literally freeze and rest so I can look at it from a seat of observation rather than judgment and challenge and threat. Life is getting better and calmer and more manageable because I am not fighting anymore. I made that conscious decision Only recently and I can see the results already. Im not as angry, I am not as stressed out, I am more at peace and therefore more open for my higher power within to give me a clue or a prompt or whatever to either solve the problem or walk away from it. I no longer think of walking away as a defeat. I am doing more Stepping back or even walking away and I feel much better

Bless you my friend for starting this thread and for telling us that you are going to stay on it for a while. I am going to be very interested in all the posts that will be on this thread forthcoming. I am learning so much, I am excited and hopeful. I do see positive change in me and to see you validate it by doing this thread is so awesome

Big grateful hugs

 

 Jerry,

         this is a different topic, Jerry- related to the thread about- about children's intuition-

not taking away from the share up there...  ... as a kid I believed that the adults around me were drinking poison!

This was based on the end result- they went into a funk and a stupour... and their behaviour changed- sometimes markedly.

Drinking was supposed to be suave and sophisticated... but I my world I saw no dancing, singing, or merriment at all.

When I hear a race meeting being called [like an auctioneers call] it reminds me of those days- the most music I heard.

Not to say i am opposed to drinking, smoking or horse racing. They are all a lot of fun for a lot of people!

And that other stuff- smoking at about age 9- drinking at 15 or 16... buying an old car- and waiting for the girls to turn 16!

That was the world of the 50's and 60's. Lots of my generation wanted a different world- and some of that has been achieved...

"that will put hairs on your chest" is something someone told me- about beer. That is what I remember- time to man UP!  ...

Kia miharo... ae... -yes...  ...

Aloha Jerry,

Thank you for this post. So many need to hear a frank statement such as this but so many think that they don't want to hear it. I've been one of the many who didn't  want to hear the truth even as I knew I needed to.

(((hugs)))

Jerry- I wrote this years ago- a true story. When I was 12 I got a paid job as a carrot boy. Our foreman was the local policeman. People said he never had to draw his police pay. I wa sin his car one day- and he got beer and whiskey- at the pub- for nothing... ...so there was no hope for my parents coming home and cooking a meal. In those days the law was pubs had to close at 6 pm.

At age 15 an AA member came to school and talked to us boys. I remember him fondly.

The last line of the poem- I did not realise the irony of the words- until much later...

 

WAITING FOR MY CHANGE.

 

 

On the high hill top we liked to stop

seeing for miles from the car's front seat-

from the town far down we could see the cop

as he cruised on his weekend beat.

 

If you paid your sub you drank at the pub

with the folk who stand at the bar

but you get the shove if you can't peer above

the steering wheel of a car.

 

So you go round the back, it's all right jack,

and gently knock on the door-

you pay your dough but the beer comes slow

in a crate unblessed by the law.

 

When the car next stops the tops come off

and the young guns set the pace.

The backseat skite blows out his light 

 in a sand flat drinking race.                                                                

 

With youth at its height we drink by night

by the light of the pine fringed moon-

then we go to a dance where the sheilas prance;

where the cop checks the car park soon.

 

He checks all the cars- those teenage bars

to see if a bottle can be found-

with his chore well done he spots not one-

-back to town to the old eiderdown.

 

There's not much fluff, nor a cheek that's rough

on the face of a small town boy-

the girls gad about so well turned out

but beer is the young man's joy.

 

Well the years go by- how time does fly

from the days that have gone before-

but my heart waits there, at the pub's back stair

 for my change at the pub's back door.

 

 

 

 

JerryF wrote:

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This tells me that you had vision David and the ability to express what and how you saw life, and at so young an age.   I am going to save this and copy it with your permission and keep the copy in my literature.  Thank you much.  

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  Yes, Jerry- surely- you are welcome...  ...

 

Alanon slowly evolves, and so does this board. I try to get back to the basic principles.

Here- it seems the person who starts the thread- moreor less chairs the topic...

changes in behaviour are essential, along with other basic shifts, along the way...

...how does this happen? Seeing other people modelling better behaviour is one. Willpower is another...

 

Alanon members could be divided into three broad groups- newcomers, middle stepper, and old timers.

in big cities old timers can club together and attend meetings where this is little disruption and change.

In our neck of the woods we have to cater for all three groupings. And after all Alanon will not survive without new members.

For me the bottom line is suffering. We do need to reach out to others who are still suffering.

Thank you for the poem I'm writing it down <3

Hi Jerry the best advice Iâve gotten has been from Jan like I stated above and my therapist who helped me get through my teen years. I was able to connect with my teen therapist after he retired and he was just so happy for me that I didnât turn into a drunk or a drug addict(the family curses). I love Alanon itâs helped me grow so much.