"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

FrustratedWifeofAlcoholic · Member

My active-alcoholic H expects me to cover for him.

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

FrustratedWifeofAlcoholic wrote:
My active-alcoholic H expects me to cover for him. He insists that Im being disloyal if I allow negative consequences to occur.
i have to admit, though, I will do what I can to stop him from driving while intoxicated simply to protect INNOCENT people on the road.

However, for example, when hes drunk and text-bombing me, he thinks I should protect him by making sure others dont hear the 100 text notifications. Or if he yells in front of others, he thinks I should tell people that I was bitchy earlier (behind closed doors) to excuse his obnoxious publ behaviors.

can you show me a link to show him that I shouldnt enable his bad behaviors or be co-dependent

A link that will show him he's wrong and you are right? A link what will show him that you shouldn't enable him or be co-dependent? Well, that's an interesting request. It sounds like you are trying to logically and intellectually prove a point or prove your case to him, with the hopes that he will see this (link) and understand it and agree with it. So, based upon my experience...the chances of that happening is tremendously less than 1%.

Alanon is not a program to arm a spouse with ammunition, proof, data, etc., so that they can go to their spouse, have their spouse understand and agree. That's not what alanon is about. Alanon is not about US getting the alcoholic to change. It is about US changing.

I'll let others comment on what alanon is and isn't, and I am sure others will comment about a healthy approach you should be considering and what alanon has to offer you.

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

In Al-Anon we come to understand that we can't change other people's behavior. However, we can change everything by changing our own. Right now your A is controlling your behavior and emotions by getting mad. All that you have to do to change the whole thing is not mind if he gets mad. It's like a rain blowing over just the weather something that happens exterior to you just let it blow on by. He can foam at the mouth all he wants to. In fact as soon as they see that we are no longer controlled by their emotions, they try a big burst of "Change back!!!" to try extra hard to control us. Just let that go on by too. You can leave the room, you can leave the city, you can sit there and smile politely, you can say "You may be right" there are many ways to respond without losing serenity. Then just let the temper tantrum blow on by. Then he has no more control.

Hope you will take good care of yourself.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Good Morning Frustrtedwife I agree alanon is a program that helps families of alcoholics develop new constructive tools to live by as they accept the fact that they are powerless over others, and that being powerless does not mean helpless. We then learn to focus on ourselves, and to understand that what others think of us or our family is unimportant and that everyone is responsible for their own actions. Covering for another's bad behavior are old tools that we learn are destructive to any relationship.
There is a great deal of literature to be found at meetings so i urge you to attend

FrustratedWifeofAlcoholic · Member

Ok, so what can I read to learn what I should and shouldnt do. I need a compass!

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

There is a Detachment and a Just for today booklet that will help, as well as" Alcoholism the Family Disease" all available at meetings

Freetime · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome, FrustratedWife! I am sorry you are in this situation and glad that you found us. Those above me have given great wisdom.

One concept that it's helpful, and a lot of us have trouble understanding it at first, is boundaries. The key idea is that boundaries are for us, to protect us by focusing on ourselves. So for example, if asked to lie about something that happened, we could say (or not say, just do it) "That's not true, I won't lie." Or if we are being bothered by texts or phone calls, to turn them off -- not as an action against the texter, but as a protection of ourselves. Just like we would turn our phone off during an important event -- it's not personal, we just have to do that so we and others won't be distracted. We don't have to announce our boundaries, just act on them.

It's not easy to make these changes. Finding a face-to-face meeting was immensely helpful to me in living through an insane situation.

PosiesandPuppies · ~*Service Worker*~

((((((Frustrated)))))

OK, firstly, I have been where you are. I also received answers that were quite similar. They all pissed me off b/c I wanted help RIGHT NOW! In time, you will see their responses are on point. But you feel as if you don't have time... I get that.

Yes, making a meeting IS the absolute best thing in Al-Anon. The physical connection with others in the rooms, the absolute palpable feeling of unconditional acceptance, the meeting of others who have walked in your shoes - and have come out the other side - all those things are good. More than good.... great. But sometimes we cannot make a meeting. Or we go and can't walk in... yet. But you need some sort of help.

At Al-Anon, we do not give advice. We share our experience. So here is what I did... take what you want and leave the rest: I read ALL the stickies here on this forum. I connected to a couple of "veterans" of this site and went back and read their personal journeys. I found another alcohol/addiction site and read the same there. I then read all that I could about the addicted mind. I began to understand the crazy (almost). I came to understand what DETACHMENT was. But the biggest take away for me, was that I didn't Cause It, I couldn't Control It, and I couldn't Cure It!

These things helped me to get a hold of MYSELF. Once I felt like I wasn't swirling down the toilet bowl with my AH, I began to think more clearly. With all the information I had, I began to see that I WAS THE ONE THAT NEEDED TO CHANGE. Yuppers. That's right. What that looks like is up to you. For me, that meant learning how to detach while I was living in that situation. After months, I came to realize that detachment was only a temporary way for me to live. I needed more than that. So I began to explore what I wanted and needed - sounds easy right? It wasn't for me. For 29 years I don't think I every really thought or implemented things just for me. It was always about another person. Their needs, wants, etc. So in this instance, can you see how it was me who needed to change?

Figuring out yourself may take awhile. But coming here will help you navigate the "crazy" you are currently living in. So don't give up. Keep coming back! They say here, "It works if you work it!" That is very true. Just know that "working it" may be different for each person. There is no one "right" way. Just keep coming back, do the next right thing, try living One Day at a Time. You will then come to understand.

I wish you Peace today and into your future.

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi... sorry to hear this, but I'm with the others.... I don't think you need a link to justify why you should do "x or y", I think you need Al-Anon, and a program of recovery for yourself, so that you don't have to feel like you need to defend insane requests like the ones being thrown at you.

A couple of sayings come to mind:

Why do we keep thinking that sick and irrational people will behave in healthy and rational ways??

Bottom line, active alcoholics are often taking actions to protect their addiction, and it ends up dragging those close to them in, thus getting that whole enmeshed blech that he is currently asking of you. The solution - simple but not easy - is to choose to get yourself healthy, regardless of whether he chooses to or not. That is the whole premise of the "Getting Them Sober" books, and so much of our program - if we change, and get ourselves healthy, we are better off for it. Sometimes this can even influence our A's to choose healthier paths for themselves, other times it does not. Either way, we come out of it in a much healthier mindset.

Take care, and give yourself the hugs and love needed to choose recovery for YOU.

Tom

FrustratedWifeofAlcoholic · Member

canadianguy wrote:
Hi... sorry to hear this, but I'm with the others.... I don't think you need a link to justify why you should do "x or y", I think you need Al-Anon, and a program of recovery for yourself, so that you don't have to feel like you need to defend insane requests like the ones being thrown at you.
A couple of sayings come to mind:
Why do we keep thinking that sick and irrational people will behave in healthy and rational ways??

Bottom line, active alcoholics are often taking actions to protect their addiction, and it ends up dragging those close to them in, thus getting that whole enmeshed blech that he is currently asking of you. The solution - simple but not easy - is to choose to get yourself healthy, regardless of whether he chooses to or not. That is the whole premise of the "Getting Them Sober" books, and so much of our program - if we change, and get ourselves healthy, we are better off for it. Sometimes this can even influence our A's to choose healthier paths for themselves, other times it does not. Either way, we come out of it in a much healthier mindset.

Take care, and give yourself the hugs and love needed to choose recovery for YOU.

Tom

While I agree with what you said and what the others said, my husband does seem to accept when an authority says something. So if his therapist were to tell him that his wife is not supposed to protect him or enable bad behaviors, he would accept that. If he hears something simply from me, he thinks Im just making that up

-- Edited by FrustratedWifeofAlcoholic on Thursday 21st of June 2018 01:30:21 AM

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

Yeah, I hear you for sure.

One of the many challenges in living around active alcoholism is that we have to get back to relying on our own sense (or trusted others) of right & wrong, and stop being guided by the insanity of the active A....

Your A can ask/demand/expect many things of you, but in the end, it is going to be up to you to determine where YOUR line is, and what you are willing (and not willing) to do for him. One of the best simple explanations that I used over and over again, when trying to understand whether you were being simply a good person, or were you being an enabler - is that enabling is best described as:

"Doing something for your A that they could do for themselves, to your detriment" (it is those last three words that are the key, in my opinion). So if your hubby asks you to do things that you are uncomfortable in doing, whether that is lying for him, stretching the truth for him, etc, (all designed to protect his disease), you learn the skills to say and mean "No is a complete sentence", and not allow him to guilt you into doing things simply because he wants/expects you to.

Tom

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

What Tom has shared is what has worked for me not just with the issue of the A in my life even if he's on the outskirts .. it works in aspects of EVERYONE in my life. Where am I helping to the point of detriment because for my kids (as an example) they need to know how to do things for themselves .. I am only a guide and I won't be here forever.

There are a million ways to say no and say so completely without having to justify, argue, defend or explain ... the kindest thing I can do for others is to allow them to experience the consequences both good and bad of their choices without coming to the rescue that I know better .. sometimes that's true .. you know what .. I don't need to draw a line from A to B as to why I'm right. They need to travel that path on their own.

Hugs S :)

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

FrustratedWifeofAlcoholic wrote:
While I agree with what you said and what the other saId, my husband does seem to accept when an authority says something. So if his therapist were to tell him that his wife is not supposed to protect him or enable bad behaviors, he would accept that. If he hears something simply from me, he thinks Im just making that up

This is part of the reason all of us are in alanon. You are so focused on him that you are trying to prove something to him, trying to be right, and doing it to meet his standards. You are immersed in him, what he wants, what will get him satisfied, etc. You are trying to change him and searching for authority, allies, support, data, etc. We've all been there and we've all learned that is the unhealthy, fallacious, can't win, and frustrating approach. Even if you could -- and I am not saying you can -- it would accomplish nothing.

This is about YOU. You shouldn't be justifying anything to him. You shouldn't be proving anything to him. You shouldn't be trying to convince him of anything. That, all of that, right there, is why you need alanon.

Go to face to face meetings and learn what alanon can do for you.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome to MIP - glad you found us and glad that you joined right in....My AH (Alcoholic Husband) and my AS (Alcoholic Sons) also listened better to others than to me. They didn't always accept or take action but they did listen more. This disease is cunning, baffling and powerful. It's larger than one person and there is no real cure. AA is one method of recovery for the Alcoholic and Al-Anon is for friends and family affected by the drinking in another.

We often end up with distorted views of right/wrong because of the disease and denial is huge for all. We end up reacting to the insanity of the disease and most of us become someone different than desired. What Al-Anon gave to me was the ability to put my first, take care of myself and detach from the disease and diseased. In time, my sons have found recovery for now (we've had some slips/relapses) and my AH has cut way, way back due to health issues.

I've been able to find my peace by working on my recovery. I have learned how to use what Tom shares above with kindness and empathy. I no longer react but respond and sometimes, the best response is no response at all. I stopped allowing the disease and the diseased the manage my life, days, to-do(s), etc. and slowly returned to saner living.

We focus on One Day at a Time only and the program is designed for everyone to work on recovery at their pace using whatever tools they can to return to sanity and find peace and joy. I hope you can find and attend some local meetings to see if it's of help to you - it has been a game changer for me. Keep coming back - you are not alone!

a4l · ~*Service Worker*~

I had totally forgotten the extreme annoyance of " the bum down the street " knowing more than me . lol. Like you OP it drove me nuts. I can say honestly that with time actively spent in recovery, my world view began to expand. It wasn't so much that the behaviour of the other person changed, it was that gradually I came to see the actions and words within a wider context of alcoholism. Words and actions of both of us. It is said that alcoholism is cunning, baffling and powerful. And it is. I know I found it absolutely frustrating to confront what was so obvious time and time again to be met with the most incredible denials. Come to some meetings and ask for a newcomers pack, you can ring your area alanon in the white pages/ or google the number. Good luck and take care.

FrustratedWifeofAlcoholic · Member

hotrod wrote:
There is a Detachment and a Just for today booklet that will help, as well as" Alcoholism the Family Disease" all available at meetings

Thank you!

FrustratedWifeofAlcoholic · Member

Reading thru older posts and someone posted the following in a stickies thread....

Don't try to protect an alcoholic against alcohol.

This is what I meant.

Conflicted · Member

Hi!! I don't have a lot to say, other than I understand your desire to want to show him that you're not doing this to be stubborn or mean, but because it is what is best. Just because he doesn't like it or doesn't agree with your choice, DOESNT make you wrong, your choices or your actions wrong. He is going to try to make you feel bad for beginning to make changes that may be better for you, i.e., not lying or covering up for his poor behavior and choices. He has the right to disagree with your choices, but that doesn't mean your wrong. I totally understand how you might feel like that "bad guy", but our feelings are not always accurate. Have faith you are making the right choice, walk away and read a page in our books to get recentered and then stick to your decision whether he understands your reasoning or not. I hope my words help and you are not alone.

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

I can't add much to the great replies you already got, but to say RE-read Bo, Canadian Guy and Hotrod and the others.......in fact , if this were me, I would print out all these responses and meditate on them..find a recovery mate and share what you shared here and what replies you got and see what THEY say...I am willing to be if they are a real "Al-anoner" they would agree 1000% with all your responses here..........Get to a meeting ASAP and find someone whom you feel comfortable with and see if they can guide you through the steps...I've been where you are: so focused on HIM that I forgot ME....Al-anon is to fix/change/help ME....I am divorced now, but if my daughter came to me with this issue, I would tell her exactly what these others told you above........You can't help anyone but yourself and "pleading/proving your case with him" is gonna get you zero results...the merry go round will just keep goin round and round and round....Time to get off, jump into Al-anon and fellowship/share with others who are either in the same boat or WERE in the same boat who can guide you.....you can only change yourself....what he does is his path to walk...His lesson....If we don't let them fall, they will never realize that they have a serious problem....letting them face their consequences is the greatest gift you can give to him.......Please keep coming back and do it for YOU!!!! its time to love and save you....IN SUPPORT

PosiesandPuppies · ~*Service Worker*~

Glad you found the "stickies." They helped me so much when I was first having to deal with my reality of living with my Qualifier.

I hope that this weekend, and the upcoming holiday will be peaceful and fun...holidays were tough in my house, so I am feeling compassion for you.

Peace, FWoA!!

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

It's so ironic when something like this occurs. It's such a typical picture of the sickness. The alcoholic wanting someone else to "cover" for them -- clean up the mess, help with the mess, bail them out of the mess, be involved in the mess, whatever it is -- is simply the means to the end, where they can accuse us and shift the blame to us. We get blamed and accused of -- disloyalty, abandoning them, giving up on them, not loving them, changing, not wanting to help them, and so much more. It's sad. Not true, but sad.

After I found recovery, I looked at all of the things I faced from the alcoholic -- all designed to keep me "in it" with them -- anger, rage, blame, guilt, sadness, martyrdom, victimization, love, hate, even love, and more.

Getting out of the day to day drama, chaos, turmoil, and havoc -- the day to day back and forth -- that's when I started to get better.

Tude · Senior Member

Yep, I had to look at me again this past week+. I let up on the boundaries of having alcohol in the house so he wouldn't drink and drive......we discussed this and ............he's drinking and driving again. So I'll use that serenity prayer Bo! I really did just let it go till I saw the post. I'm smiling because the program has helped me know I can't change him even if I am the one that slips back into trying to control events, him whatever.

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

Tude, I hear you...keep up the very good work on YOU. You are doing what you need to be doing for you. I struggled with the driving thing. In the end, I set my boundary -- and had to make it a real stand -- and made it clear that my wife could not drive the kids. Period. She went crazy, yelled and screamed, did everything. It wasn't up for discussion. It certainly wasn't up for any negotiation. None. Did I have to take off time from work? Yes. Did it require more time on my part? Yes. However, it didn't. Why? These are my kids. Period.

When there was a so called discussion, I made it clear that because she had driven drunk before, I could not and would not take any chances about her driving. She was free to go out and drive whenever she wanted, wherever she wanted. I couldn't do anything about that. Legally or otherwise. I made sure the car was in her name, I had her with her own/supplemental insurance, to the extent I could, and I did talk to her about what could happen. But, she was not driving the kids. Period. She insisted. I told her to go see an attorney...and I would go see mine...and I was not giving an inch on this, and if we ended up in court, so be it. It wasn't even a decision as far as I was concerned.

Keep doing it. It works if you work it.

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Reading through"How AlAnon Works" helped me tremendously. I had a lot of light bulbs light up when i read it. I had also gone to some meetings, and I think it was finally time for me to start understanding how it worked. so, for me, I needed meetings along with the resources mentioned above -which are available at meetings!

Kenny

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

hey Posiesandpuppies, i am amazed and overjoyed at your growth...I remember when you first came and look at you know...I just wanted to say that --Recovery looks GREAT on you....what you said above was awesome.....I am glad we are sharing this journey, and to "frustrated" I would re-read all the responses you got and meditate on it....and I could not agree more: you NEED to get into meetings..find a sponsor who can guide you on the steps and slogans and direct you how to get in a habit of focusing on YOU and YOUR needs and that you can only change and help YOU...Alcoholic has to learn his own lessons.....and like Canadian guy said when he referred if doing something for someone makes you uncomfortable, then it is a detriment to you...you don't owe anyone the selling out of your good integrity.......IN SUPPORT

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

Tude wrote:
Yep, I had to look at me again this past week+. I let up on the boundaries of having alcohol in the house so he wouldn't drink and drive......we discussed this and ............he's drinking and driving again. So I'll use that serenity prayer Bo! I really did just let it go till I saw the post. I'm smiling because the program has helped me know I can't change him even if I am the one that slips back into trying to control events, him whatever.

By the way, just another piece of experience...I tried to control and eliminate the drinking and driving, originating from home. However, she then was drinking and driving coming from and going to other places -- work, the bar, happy hour, friends, etc.

Drinking and driving is drinking and driving. Period. I remember telling her that if she chose to do so and hurt herself, accident, injury, jail, whatever, that was on her and her consequences to decide on and face. However, for someone else!!! No way!!! That's when I put my foot down and hence, she could not and would not drive the kids. I was more than prepared to go to court if I had to. Period. She continued to drive drunk, coming from friends, a bar, etc. When she was home, I had decided that I would -- point out she was intoxicated, point out that she could hurt or kill someone else, perhaps a child in the neighborhood, and if she was relatively coherent, I would attempt without any bolidy harm or contact, to take her keys. Once I did and she attacked me. I called the police. Another time, she tried to take my keys and my car. I took those keys as well and she attacked me. I didn't call the police that time, but simply left the house in my own car. Once uber got popular, she was fine, LOL. She regularly called friends, cabs and car services.

There were times I couldn't get her keys. And, she drove. I was scared, but there was only so much I could do. I did what I felt was "right" and made all the right moves given the circumstances.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene