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I told my sponsor that I no longer wanted them as a sponsor some months ago. Some weeks ago I shared in my meeting about letting go of a friend and the circumstances around that without naming the person. My sponsor was in attendance. I have not returned to that meeting and am not planning on it any time soon. The meeting is small and it feels awkward for me. I need somewhere new and someone new in order to keep growing in my recovery. I have shared about the ending of relationship with my sponsor in the past so no need to rehash aside from saying it was my sponsor's harsh behavior toward me that caused to end it so abruptly. It was the culmination of many ongoing and unresolved things my former sponsor vents about weekly at our meeting. I refuse to be the resting place for her unresolved anger. My share at the meeting was just about the realization of a misunderstanding between myself and a friend and hurt over such a confrontational response from the other person.
My old sponsor has now emailed me to rehash, to confirm that they were the one being shared about, to give their view of the what took place, to offer an apology and explain that it has taken this long because they felt they were owed an apology from me and were waiting for one. Hmmm an amends is offered without expectation?? The email that was sent was very long and looked like a business contract. It was paragraphed and then all the points of the conversation that had occurred between us that evening were in a list.
I had just walked into an open AA meeting because I was sorely in need of some serenity when the email came. I shut down my phone but felt sick to my stomach during the meeting. Later, I felt resentful that it had been sent to me. It took some time to refocus and let it go. I didn't respond and foldered it in my email account so it would be out of sight. I thought of deleting it but just put aside instead.
I had shared in the meeting because it was something I needed to release in a safe environment without repercussion. My former sponsor shared after I did. If my former sponsor had anything to say, I would have preferred it to happen at our meeting place. After an unsafe public conversation with her, future conversations need to be at the Alanon meeting only, even private conversations would feel safer for me if I were surrounded by other recoverying people. My share in the meeting was meant for the meeting and not to be carried out of the meeting to an email from my former sponsor. The email had no subject line. Granted I didn't have to open it but with no subject line I chose to read it. Because of her volatile behavior toward me that night and continued denial in her email, I am hesitant to even answer and tell her I don't want emails from her. It feels safer to not respond. With her apology, she affirmed again that she had been "right." It is very important to her to be right and have the last word. However, with all she wrote she will not like it that I am ignoring the email. I am choosing to take care of myself and not engage with her. I don't doubt that I will see her again at some point in person and hopefully we will both in a place of greater serenity. But my answer for now is, not now. I am grieving and letting go.
I am interested in any and all experience, strength and hope you may have to offer concerning those who will not be ignored or whatever resonates for your from this share. Thank you. TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
Oh....(((TT))) - it just sounds like so much 'drama' to me. I have let some folks go in my life before and they held on tightly trying to JADE their way back in. It is tiring, draining and perplexing at the same time.
It sounds to me that you said what you meant, meant what you said and didn't say it mean....I will admit that when I've been 'held hostage by the emotional state of another', I do my best to objectively look for my part in their pain. I believe it's necessary as I want to keep growing. So, I will assess as best I can with my sponsor or a trusted program friend. I process no different than if it were my child as I do believe we are all equals and that's why my HP would want me to do.
If I see no further need for amends or a discussion, I do a mental 'block' on that person. Even when/if they come to/at me which makes it 'personal', I work to not take it personal. It's truly not about me - it's about them and whatever is affecting them at that point in time. As I have aged, I've gotten more selective on who I consider a 'trusted friend'. I've got tons of acquaintances and many friends but only a select few are trusted friends.
When it comes to program friends, I have to be reminded sometimes that we're all here because we're sick/affected by this disease. It affects the body, mind, spirit, heart and soul and we all recover at different rates. We all have stages with good growth and good/bad days. I was told early on and still hear it often that when I am unsure what to do, I should write about it, talk about it and pray about it. I was told early on that I am to pray for those I resent. I was told all kinds of things that did not make sense, yet they do work.
I have tried different approaches to situations similar....I've tried to restate my boundaries as well as ignoring/avoiding high drama people. I can't say there is a perfect strategy but I do know that when I consider slogans - such as, "When in Doubt, Don't" most of these have resolved themselves one way or another. I go to the meetings I go to because they have change up of members and members who truly desire serenity. I don't need the social aspect, but see/support others who do. I don't need more friends, but see/support others who do. I just have to keep looking at my motives and seeing if I own anything and then take action when more is revealed.
I DO NOT believe that program people should get special consideration if/when they violate my boundaries. For me, consistency helps with my moral compass and my serenity. I really try to be consistent with my values, expectations, motives so I don't confuse others too.
Not sure that I've helped you at all - there is never any shame in seeking a new sponsor. I'm grateful that when I've switched up, it's been supported and encouraged. I'm sure sorry that this is 'hanging over your head' - recovery is hard enough when people are behaving nicely....it gets more complicated in my brain when people are behaving badly. Keep doing you, and I am sure it will resolve as it's suppose to!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thank you (((iamhere))) for your wisdom and insights. I especially like what you said about taking ownership of what if anything we as the other person in the situation may have contributed and if an amends is necessary. I am going to sit with my feelings awhile, pray, meditate, journal and continue my meetings and sharings. With time, I hope my higher power will guide me to what's next concerning myself and my old sponsor.
"I DO NOT believe that program people should get special consideration if/when they violate my boundaries. For me, consistency helps with my moral compass and my serenity. I really try to be consistent with my values, expectations, motives so I don't confuse others too."
This stood out for me in your share. The behavior my old sponsor exhibited by violating my personal space in a bullying manner, they have exhibited before. To me, this is clearly unregulated anger and is paramount to allowing oneself to be physically and or mentally abused by an active alcoholic. We are in recovery, we have tools if one has willingness to use them. What happened that evening conversationally has little relevance to me. For my former sponsor to tick off the points of the conversation and not take ownership of this behavior makes me all the more assured that I made a decision that honors my dignity and self worth by permanently removing myself from this situation.
In no way do I feel like "the bad guy" in choosing to move on to someone else as a sponsor. My former sponsor's expressed indignation and taking a verbal shot at me for choosing to move on is hers to wear and keep. I don't need to absorb this kind of negativity either.
Honestly, I feel a bit of sadness but mostly I feel a sense of freedom and relief from my uninvolvement. Your opening sentence in your response is spot on. It is a lot of drama. Something I absolutely don't need in my recovery support system. I just want to keep my serenity and keep recovering. I believe you understand, thank you. TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
(((Hugs))) TT and I do understand all too well. Good for you for putting you first - I love that our gentle program gives us permission to matter.
I had a sponsor/sponsee experience a long while ago. I was shamed and tormented for making a decision to move on. I realized then and there that as soon as I see ego leading our spiritual discussions/meetings/other, I must be cautious. For me, it's my ego and my 'self-righteous' that did a ton of contributing chaos/drama in my own family. So - if I see it or feel I hear it, I begin the process of prayer/meditation seeking guidance for what's next.
What I love about recovery that many forget is that it is a gentle program and we should always build each other up. I didn't know that when I first arrived and picked 'like' people....guess what? They were not the best fit for me as we were too much alike and I needed something different to grow. The gentle people that are working this program do NOT take it personally when one puts self first. The spiritual people in this program are more likely to say, "Good for you - may your journey be great and find me if you need me." It took me a while to find exactly what I need (Thank you God) - a 'Betty-Like' gal who's so spiritual, you can just feel it.
So - put you first. Honor you, love you and keep moving forward. We are all equals in recovery and each has the same right to recovery. It is real though that what some seek from their spiritual journey is different than what I/we may seek and that's OK too. Keep doing you - you wear it so, so well! Grateful you're here!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
From my perspective -- you handled this very well. Sharing in the meeting -- when she was there -- was a decision you made, and she reacted the way she reacted. Her email speaks about her, not you. Move on. Let it go. Forget it, LOL. Now, if she keeps contacting you, different story. Then you can think about taking action -- in order to have the contact stop. But until then, you feel the right thing for you is to let go and move on.
She thinks she's right. Let her think it. LOL.
For you, about you, just focus on you -- you would have preferred to have your sponsor "speak" at your meeting place. While this is about you -- I am not hearing that she wants to speak...I am hearing that wants to be heard. Big difference. Like you said, she wants to be right. It is important to her. Let it be. You do what's best for you -- and if you don't want any more discussions, don't have them. That's your choice. It's safer to not respond -- so go with that.
She will not like it that you are ignoring the email? Sounds like a personal problem. Her personal problem. That is nothing more than obnoxious, arrogance and entitlement. For me, that's not a person I want to be around. They are not healthy for me. I like what you said about "take care of myself and not engage with her." -- great for you. Keep it up.
All the best.
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Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
((TT)) From what I gather, her being right is very important to her. In my experience with people who need to prove something, they are not open to another perception... the more I would engage, the more the situation escalated. I check my side of the street and can choose if a response is needed or walk away from someone else's fight.
I've had this exact same sponsor problem, where she became critical and harsh.
The benefit of the whole experience (painful as it was) is nearly identical to the benefit of my alcoholic relationship... despite my perception of devastation, which was part of the "drama." Once again, the opportunity came for me to work it all over again.
Self inventory got me to the other side. where I can now say I'm eternally grateful for the whole experience with her, the good, the bad and the ugly. It is a lesson finally learned that I could never have learned any other way.
Self-inventory is the gold mine. So I offer the suggestion for you to keep digging until you get your lightbulb moment. For me, it feels as though the earth shakes when that happens... when I come out of victimhood... I found that my sponsor didn't harm me after all, she actually helped me gain what I was meant to gain. Nothing in God's world happens by mistake.
Afterwards, I predict your experience will be like mine, you'll be able to face her without incident. I no longer "trust" her for she has proven to be trustworthy like a rattlesnake. but God didn't bring me this far to drop me on my head. I now trust myself not to "mingle" too long with rattlesnakes because they might bite me. Now I can smile at rattlesnakes and mentally sidestep the FEAR of being around them.
I change. Not the rattlesnake.
May I suggest your sponsor is defending herself from a perceived attack. It's very "human" to defend and attack back. only YOU can know your motive for allowing her ears to be in the room as well.
Everyone wants to be "right" and we all dig in our heels. The 12 steps are the way out of the attachment. I sincerely wish you, and our fellow sister, the peace you BOTH deserve.
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 31st of August 2017 11:05:57 AM
Thank you ((iamhere)) Yes, a gentle program that gives us permission to matter. That's a beautiful way to state it. I realize that this also includes my former sponsor. I'll know when I have the words to communicate with her. I don't foresee myself emailing her. Sometime down the road either our paths will cross or I reach out to her to meet in person. Only God knows when. Funny how that works with choosing sponsors who are like yourself. Honestly, who would know how to choose someone healthy when they are new and unhealthy. Of course, some people do make a lucky pick lol. I like what you've expressed about moving on as a sponsor or a sponsee. To me that openness and wanting the best for one another is healthy. Life changes and we change with it and our needs change. I guess a person might say that the 12 steps don't change and or how to work them but sometimes a new sponsor or sponsee can bring a new perspective.
Thanks (((bo)))) for your support. It really is true that I need to do what is best for me in this situation. For now, not doing anything concerning what happened between her and myself is what feels best. I'm going to honor that feeling and keep moving forward until my hp guides me to another action.
Thank you (((bud))) for your support. Yes, you pretty much nailed it. I shared my experience which was at odds with her own experience. It was simply my experience. I've found some people feel everything should include a challenge, a debate, a squaring off. I don't get my jollies this way. I compete with myself instead. What I mean by that is I try to improve myself personally. I am not out to prove anything to anyone, prove I can improve anyone etc. This kind of behavior coming toward me tires me out and makes me want to run for the door. "You may be right," is my go to with situations like this. Yes, it is her fight and not mine. I don't have to show up to every fight I'm invited to. I choose not to engage this way.
Thank you (((2HP))) for your es&h. I have had some time to inventory concerning her because I have wanted to end this relationship for some time. This happens. People reach a point of knowing they are either growing in different directions or apart. Both are happening in this sponsor/sponsee relationship. I know I'll see her again and I am hoping this separation will lead to increased growth in each of our recovery programs.
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
I hope I am expressing this without seeming to criticize when I say that I think sharing your experience at a meeting where she was listening might have been predicted to stir up her emotions - don't you think maybe? I think expecting her not to recognize herself in your share, or to react calmly (especially if she is already an emotional/critical/volatile kind of person) may have been too great an expectation. I am wondering if there was a little bit of anger in your decision to share your experience there with her listening. You are the one who will know if that is true or not, of course. I think expecting her to respond to your share in the meeting (when she didn't know yours was coming), if she responded at all, was probably too great an expectation.
I discussed cutting off contact with my mother, with my therapist. She pointed out that when there's conflict between people, there's intensity. Cutting off someone is just another version of the intensity. She said that's it's kind of like waging war by other means. Obviously this doesn't mean we have an obligation to stay in contact with people who are physically violent, or who are painful to be around. But (unless the person is a physical threat) how we stop contact with them is a different question. For that reason, to lessen the intensity rather than heighten it, if I were in your situation I think I would send the person a short email that says, "I'm grateful for the good things you gave me. [Or any other good thing you can acknowledge truthfully if there are any.] Right now I am processing and trying to take care of myself, so I'm afraid I just can't get into any further dialogue about it. I wish you well." That would be a less intense response than "ghosting," which has kind of a hostile element to it. (Once again, of course that doesn't apply to physically dangerous people.)
Those are just my thoughts - take what you like and leave the rest. And take good care of yourself.
Thanks for your response ((mattie))) I appreciate what you've shared. I'd like give some insight about sharing at my meeting. It was not my intent when I came that evening to do so. Another member suggested the anger as our meeting topic. I felt guided by my higher power to share how another's anger had affected me. I was nervous doing so but felt I should open up and share. My share was for my own healing. I shared with an emphasis on shared friendship and meaningful connections between friends as well as my feelings of sadness as well as a the physical uneasiness that occurred when the other person became so angry. I shared that my being ill at ease came in part from old feelings of being around active alcoholism. As I shared, I did hope something that I shared might resonate with my former sponsor. I am not angry at her for what she did. I am saddened by it. Admittedly, I hoped sharing how such behavior affected me on the receiving end might be helpful for both of our recoveries. Fully aware of her presence, that was my only motive. My aim at meetings is for greater understanding and growth. When the topic was suggested and accepted, I felt my higher power inviting me to share with honesty, openness and a willingness listen to others and gain more understanding. I come to Alanon meetings for support, to give and receive unconditional love and get healthier. I am respectful of the anonymity of others when sharing. I believe I was respectful as well as kind in how I presented the situation and my feelings around it. It was heartfelt and expressed how I had valued her place in my life as well as my grieving the loss of a friend. How else can I say this, Mattie? It was a nice share. My plan has been to send her my thanks but I am not going to do that through email. This would be best handled by mail and with simple thanks only not the promise of further discussion. Her anger is affecting her other relationships and her work life. Her job is conditioned on her seeking help. She had been ordered to do so many months ago. She wasn't always like this. Her life has become unmanageable in many ways but by her own admission, she has trouble asking for help. I have tried to be there for her but there are limits to what she is willing to receive from me because despite the fact that Alanon tells us we are equals, this is not her view. She has to reach her own bottom. There are consequences unfortunately for mistreating people repeatedly. People get tired of mistreatment and go away. Thank you again for your insights. I am in no way out to let her wonder, punish her, make her suffer. I have not loved her behavior but I do love her. She just can't sponsor me any longer. I will send her my thanks very soon. (((hugs))) TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
This whole situation reminds me of the issue of say yes when you mean yes and no when you mean no or no becomes maybe.
I don't believe guilt or weirdness needs to be attached to that it just is what it is. Sometimes the less engagement is the better. I like attitude of the statement with no promised future engagement attached to it.
Some people do not understand the word no .. partly because as I have mentioned no actually has been taught to be maybe and they wear others down to get what they want.
Hugs S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
(((TT))) - great share. I too share from the heart in my meetings. It's about my recovery and my healing/dealing. If I ever have to filter my shares based on who is present, I will be looking for a different meeting immediately. What I love about Al-Anon (not the same in the other side) is when we speak from our heart and use I statements, nobody has a clue who might be affecting our serenity. I was one before recovery that always 'thought' they were talking about me or it was all about me - not any more!
She chose to take your share and make it more than it was. When I begin to wonder how what I am going to do is going to affect someone else's feelings, I have to go back to Step One as I have forgotten I am powerless and my EGO is getting in the way. Keep doing you, your program, your healing and your recovery. You got this and whatever comes next will do so when it's time for it.
(((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Hmmm an amends is offered without expectation?? The email that was sent was very long and looked like a business contract. It was paragraphed and then all the points of the conversation that had occurred between us that evening were in a list.