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Ever since I got into recovery, I have slammed, cursed, wished death upon active alcoholics ALL because My mother was one of the worst kind...Instead of 30 pieces of silver, she sold me to my bio sire, HER husband for a quart of Seagram 7...That is all I was worth..."Trafficked" by my own bio mother...and what a cheap price...One Lousy Quart or litre (you all know what size I am talking about) was all I was worth to her......She would get "loaded" and , I guess, angry at him for something, and yell at him to "go get your daughter, now" and she would slither back in their bedroom and drink herself into oblivion....SOMETIMES she would awaken, get her .22 revolver and come into my room, catch him there and guess whom she wanted to shoot....ME!!! she aimed that thing at me a few times...the last time she did, I told her to aim straight, if that was possible...and I FACED her and her gun....I already at 15, wanted to die!! I had had it with life,,..he scataddled out of there and left me, of course, to either be shot or not.....when she left my room, I crawled out my window..I remember running through the moist, cold wet grass and leaves around our house, out into the road where I could run behind neighbors houses, keeping out of sight, because at times, he would come after me to bring me back... I ran till I got to the main road and there I could hitchhike to my safe place....This family in the next town over who adored me and wanted to adopt me.....Dad "G" was an alcoholic, too, but he never frightened me or hurt me or did ANYthing but love me and when I would wake up at night having nightmares, HE would come upstairs to where I slept (Older sisters were usually out with their boyfriends) and he would tell me stories...and Mom G would bring up the milk and cookies (always homemade and great)......
I see, now, that not all active alcoholics are purveyors of the evil I had to endure and cope with, by shutting down, dissociation, "going away" in my head, all the things I now have trouble with as I don't need these "coping skills" anymore
Dad G was kind..playful...protective...yea, he drank...every weekend when he didn't' have to work the next day...he would get his beer and watch sports on TV, play with me and brother "H" who was a year younger than me, take us fishing or play ball outside with us, (busted windows from a foul ball were par for the course) and Dad would just get out the pieces of glass he kept in the basement and the putty and brother "H" and I would help him fix the broken windows...It was repair or mom would go on strike in the kitchen till we fixed her windows.....
I guess , practicing my mindfulness , and doing other behavior modifications and reflections has brought up these memories...
Not all practicing alcoholics are monsters and freaks of the kind I had to grow up with...I remember mom and dad "G" trying to adopt me....So did my Aunt Harriett and Uncle Dick..THEY wanted me too...
I must have been a lovable child to have these 2 wonderful families want me...One related...the other not..But it did't matter...they sustained me and left me with wonderful memories that keep me to this day..When I get down on me, I think back to these 2 lovely families whom I adored and wanted sooo much to be with...
I truly believe that the booze did not make my bio sire and dam (can't call them parents) be the selfish, self indulgent and "dark" souls that they were...SHE wanted to pay any price to "marry up" she was an OK girl, who was daughter of a pharmacist, a nice guy, middle class, but she always wanted MORE..She wasn't satisfied with her middle class existence....she was engaged to a fella who wanted to work for the newspaper when he graduated..they dated in college and even got engaged, but SHE wanted the material things that a rich fella could offer and "marrying up" would to that....
She goes to MA to visit a college friend of hers and meets Mr. "Harvard grad" with a rich mom and dad and hes a bastard from the word "go" but he had money...He was a weirdo (according to my Aunts/Uncles whom I queried) in that he had ZERO morals, nobody thinks he knew what decency and morals and honesty were, much less practice them, his way of having fun was to put others down IN PUBLIC for better affect and he was all about him...his wants..his desires...his his his..and he had a "taste" for the innocent, young girls, waaay too young to be dating a mature guy...13 to 17 was his "soup du jour" ...he was spoiled by "nanny" who probably felt that was the best way of coping with him....Grampa died when I was a baby and before that, he worked long hours to provide his family with beautiful homes, clothes, all the creature comforts they wanted..trips to EU, the finest of things.....so my dam, seeing this, took off her engagement ring, threw it in the Ocean off Cape Cod where she was "yachting" with her husband to be and they got married in 1940, July, I believe...
My good, moral, decent maternal grandparents, after meeting this new SIL, were horrified at the beast their daughter picked...Granddaddy had great instincts about people and he knew this guy was bad....how bad?? IF they only knew!!!!! I didn't start talking about what was going on until the 1970's when granddaddy asked me about him and why I was so terrified of men and WHY I would not let my granddaddy hug me goodnight when I went to bed...(I visited him and mamaw often ,until they both passed on)..I finally broke down and told granddaddy....my poor granddaddy with his health going down hill from asthma and emphysema just lied in his bed and wept when I told him WHY I did't want him or any man hugging me or getting too close.....Granddaddy muttered "I had a chance to kill him--Oh God, why did I let her (my dam) stop me??? I am sooo sorry" and he just wept....He didn't live long after that...I think his heart broke because I was his favorite of the children..no Doubt that had a horrible impact on him..
Another reason why I can "grow some" compassion for the active alcoholic is my brother---he is a total sweetheart...if he owes you a dollar, he will walk 10 miles to pay you...if you owe him, he will walk that same 10 miles to collect....honest as the day is long...NEVER has lied to me about his addiction....and when hes loaded, he is not a freak or sex deviant or an abuser/beater, he is just a drunk...his g.f.dumped him over no AA, and that tossed him into a binge....IF a leaf falls off a tree, wrong,it can cause him to go on a "80 proof sabbatical) sad.......sometimes he cries because he knows what his drinking does to his loved ones....Sometimes he is so funny, I laugh my butt off at him....yea, he knows not to call me when plastered, but at times he forgets....as long as he doesn't get "weepy" I am OK for a while, but I gotta go after a while, NOT because he is offending me, but because I just don't want to be around alcoholics...it isn't healthy for me...
The hate and animosity I have shown towards the alcoholics, here on this board and at meets, and other places was unfair to the ones who have a decent heart, but are afflicted by a horrid addiction to a substance that will eventually kill them if they don't stop....Would I date another one??? No!!! would I marry another one??? HELL NO!!!! but that is because I don't want to go through the chaos and drama and potential financial and legal fall out that they usually bring with them.....
I was unfair, lumping them all with my abusive AH#1 and , worse, the monster and his bride...and the monster , even tho he drank, he controlled it...2 big high balls and he was done...he preferred food any ole time , what I have learned, looking back, he drank, but he wasn't hooked like she was....
I was unfair judging all of them based on the horrible people I had the atrocious bad fortune of having in my life....
Dad "G" would never have hurt me...My brother would defend me to the enth degree.......
I see alcoholics as folks who have an addiction...Well?? I am addicted to control...I have to be in control or I am terrified and helpless...I get fearful and angry when i am not in control...that old "helplessness" rears its ugly head...Back then I WAS helpless, but I am not now...OH yea!! Tell that to my messed up head....I am a recovering Codependent....I can't buy Oreo cookies without eating the whole friggin bag....and forget butter fingers in the soft cups---I'll eat till I burst---there are other "trigger" foods that I just cannot have in my house or I will indulge till I can't eat anymore.....so I have my "isms" too....should I be cursed and condemned and judged??? NO!!! So why do to another what I don't want done to me????
No!! I wont date or hang out with an alcoholic because it just isn't healthy to do so....not just because of the triggers, but once I got into the car of an alcoholic, long ago, and we were in a wreck....I mean I can feel compassion which I see coming into my heart, but I don't have to put myself at risk being around them, hanging out with them....it is just common sense protecting me....
Anyway, I admire and hold in the highest esteem the alcoholics who "belly up" to honesty and the realization that they are killing themselves and destroying other lives around them and they quit!! get into AA and they work their asses off getting sober, changing their thinking and staying sober...the ones who "make it" past that sort of trial time of (they say) 5 years sober/clean, they have a great shot at staying sober and....I admire these people for doing the right thing by themselves and their loved ones and their communities by getting into AA and other 12 steps communities (I see a lot of them in Al-anon) I think that is awesome....My daughter is a recovering cocaine addict and 5 plus years clean...I can't and never did judge and condemn her...so why the hell should I the Alcoholics....Not all of them (VERY few, I get) sell their daughters for a bottle of booze....not all of them beat their children (she did ) not all of them lock their kids in dog crates so she can drink (my brothers and I had to soil our selves because she wouldn't even let us out to the restroom) not all of them take a gun and want to "kill their competition" that was FORCED upon me...Not all of them do despicable, unforgivable evil to their own flesh and blood.....I think all that darkness was already in her...I know it was because I talked to folks who knew her when she was NOT drinking..Before she married her "rich boy--monster"....She was OK to put her children at risk....Not all alcoholics do that.....
My sponsor and best friend I EVER had in my life is a recovering alcoholic...Yea she made mistakes with her daughter, but NEVER the evil I was put through, all she did was get wasted and be MIA till she sobered up, basically she was an OK parent, then she got into recovery in the early 80's and I say "BRAVO' to her and this lady, I love more than I do my own sister....
I also have "come against" those who choose to stay with their active alcoholics...That was wrong too....Its not my business...Not my path to walk...AND maybe some folks are married to guys like my REAL dad, dad "G" ...Just maybe the sober spouse sees more good then bad in their alcoholic...Again, I was unfair in some of my posts, almost TELLING someone "oh you gotta dump your active alcoholic" again...NOT my right!!! Even when I see abuse, Yea, urge the victim to get help and support from the authorities and shelters, et al, and to me, abuse and adultery would be a deal breaker, but again!!! that is ME....For the others?? It is THEIR path and THEIR lesson to go through....NOT mine!!!!
I will never be a "fan" of staying with someone who refuses to get into AA, but that is just me and I won't change ME...but what I AM changing is this unfair hate and condemnation to the alcoholics who ARE'NT child offenders/incest aggressors or those who traffic their own children to get their drink....I most likely will never forgive folks who do horrid evil to the innocent, but MOST alcoholics, I am willing to bet , do NOT do the evil that was done to me...
Anyway, I guess this is yet another step in MY recovery.....Looking at the whole picture---not just the ugly one that was forced upon me....
as my friend Jerry would say "Mahalo" for letting me share....
Mama that was very moving and reminiscent of how I arrived to this place of my own recovery. I "feel you" literally having been there and done that including the runaways and the fighting against and hate and anger. I feel healed having read your story here and realizing that I no longer have those old toxic, sick thoughts, feelings and actions. I have those experiences and have no need to have them again after learning how to understand and forgive "them". Listening to the angst of those who abused me gave me an indication of where they were are, what happened and how they became where they were and listening with compassion and empathy acknowledged in me that we were not much different ...I felt as they did and more.
I came very close to killing my alcoholic/addict one night as I took my animosity out on her and she afforded me justice when she mentioned "I deserve that"...I've cried over that statement often as the program taught "we don't beat a sick person"; I was just as sick and unknowing.
I don't slam alcoholics or addicts anymore either. That ended when I became a therapist with them...Oh God what a change of spirit and behavior. Just recently one of my former clients spoke of how his life has changed; and it has been dramatic, and what he gives away to others in places all over this world and I thank God for having been of use in it.
Keep on keeping on Mamma...and MIP...others will be healed from our recoveries. (((((hugs)))))
Yeah there comes a point when we have to stop people living rent free in our heads and take responsibility for our own happiness.
Adversity's a part of the human experience, everybody's had problems.
Gratitude for the gifts of each day, no two sunsets are ever identical, nature paints a new landscape portrait each dusk if we only take the time to look up and see.
Take care Rose.
Hi, I'm Grace a grateful member. I see this is the most recent post, sorry. I'm in the meeting room I thought there was meant to be a 9pm meeting. I'm overseas so perhaps I have got my timezones wrong? Are Alanon meetings still held in the meeting chat room on this website? Thanks
Grace, welcome to MIP and NO!! this is a thread that I started...a share....the chat room is another part of this board....not sure what you were asking, but i hope this helped....We have this board for sharing and giving our experiences and strengths and hope when a person posts a thread....meetings are you talk...noone comments on your share, its different scenario....this is a community type thing.........I hope this helped
a4l, " stop people living rent free in our heads." I like that, I use to obsess about the past and it made me a very angry person. At times, I could not get along with other people when I needed to just let things go.
Rose, thanks for sharing your story. I use to lie in bed at night when I was a child and wish I belonged to another family. I would think that maybe they lost me and were going to come and take me somewhere nicer. Of course that never happened. I was lucky that at age 70 my father had to stop drinking because he was getting sick. I got to spend a few years with him sober and I felt very fortunate. He was a different man. I have seen some of my friends and family members battle with the disease of alcoholism. Some of them stopped drinking and have good lives, others were not as fortunate. My journey to get alcoholism out of my life only changed when I was willing to make the changes. It did not happen overnight, and I still have anxiety but it is not that bad. I hope working the program keeps bringing peace and serenity to your life.
hey a41...Thats what it is...I just did not want to give these people anymore free space in my head...AND to quit judging/condemning alcoholics , lumping them in with the kind of people that I got stuck with....there are GOOD folks who happen to be alcoholics, is what I am saying.....I want to just bury them entirely, OUT of my head....I am taking responsibility for my happiness starting NOW.....
hey Betty, its about time: My making a good decision re: my Program/recovery...Not all alcoholics are creeps and degenerates..Some of them are good...probably MOST are NOT evil like those 2 but just sick.....It took a while for me to come to this...I just don't want them to exist in my head and emotions anymore.....working on my mindful exercises and being in my "innards" ...HUGS
I think this post was a "global" amend to the alcoholics who DONT do hideous and degenerate evil but for those who are just caught in the vortex of the drink, and who don't do crimes against children....those folks like my brother and so many others....I think what I meant to say is that I was lumping them ALL in with the freaks and degenerates that I was forced to grow up with...People who did willful evil and were never sorry for the lives that they destroyed......growing up with them really caused me to hate drunks...ANY drunk....for a long time...but I remember dad "G" now they were in my life before, during and after the abuse, I was too afraid to tell them because my "trafficer" "enabler" mother condemned me when I begged her to get him off me.....Also the threats , veiled and subtle from him...shut me up for a long time....
But even still...I want to cast away that evil out of my head , my life, my emotions and I think this practicing being in the now, by default, I will do that...I just don't want them to exist for me anymore...the vast majority of alcoholics are folks who are addicted...ill....and the active ones just have not comes to terms with the fact that recovery is their only way to a happy/ healthy life....I was judging and condemning them all and that was UNfair to say the least....even AH#1 as abusive as he was, was not the evil that my dam and sire were.....I can even forgive him to a point in that if I saw him ever again, I could just walk by and not even think or say anything to him or about him.....I don't wish him ill...he just does not exist to me anymore.....thanks to al-anon, i arrived at being able to forgive a lot of stuff.....child predators?? NO!! let them go to their maker....the rest?? most of it i can work through the hate and anger and can and did release me from the hate and the bitterness and revenge, (i.e., AH#1 and a few others) as to the spouses who choose to stay??? I have no right to judge and/or tell them what they should do...Maybe ,just maybe they are married to folks who have a lot of good in them despite the chaos, drama and financial/legal ramifications they can bring with them.....My brother is a classic example of one whom people just stick with because in spite of his legal issues, being homeless b/c he drank up his rent, or his going away with no heads up to his loved ones on his 80 proof sabaticals, causing lots of worry and concern for his many many friends, in spite of the fact he is a "walking disaster" I can see why folks dont' dump him to the curb....The only issue I have had with his loyal friends is "dont' enable him..You may be helping him die....let him fall...face his consequences....and MAYBE he will see he needs help" his friends agreed...they were enabling him....
anyway, that is what I was basically saying.....
JUST saying
-- Edited by mamalioness on Sunday 23rd of July 2017 10:01:32 PM
Welcome to MIP Grace - glad you found us and glad that you shared. The meeting times and a link to the meeting room are up to the top, left hand side for future reference....the schedule is posted and meetings do happen when there are enough attendees and a chair. If there was not a meeting last evening, give it another shot - keep coming back!!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Rose...thank you very much for the insightful and very open and honest post. I understand how you feel. In face to face meetings, often, a newcomer comes in and is in crisis, struggling, very emotional, etc. Sometimes, you get a hint or even a very direct, clear -- us vs. them attitude or mentality. I get that as well. After many years in this program, of course I understand giving support and encouragement to the alcoholic et al. While I won't go into all of the details, practical application, day to day, real world, and so on -- this disease can lead to that type of feeling. My AW would lie, steal, cheat, manipulate, and whatever else necessary -- to get what she wanted/needed, to get me to do what she wanted/needed me to do, and so on. When dealing with an alcoholic, or addict, sometimes -- the analogy of the ping pong match, or the tug of war -- allows us to think about ourselves. No, not punish or harm the other person -- no, they are not the enemy -- but this disease can make me feel like it.
I view my boundaries as mine -- and that another person will violate them, not like them, will fight them, and so on. There can be an adversarial element there, perhaps with the person, perhaps with the attitude, environment, or something else. Confrontations can occur. Early on, I sometimes viewed detaching as a bit of a battle -- inside of me, between old behavior and new behavior, old thinking vs. new, old reactions vs. new, and so on. Sometimes, I felt struggles with and against enabling.
That said, some of the so called battle was with myself, and some were with the disease the other person was suffering from, and some were directly and indirectly with the other person.
Have I been angry or frustrated with the alcoholic/addict? Sure. Of course. When she stole money. But it was the disease. When she forged prescriptions. But it was the disease. When she bought drugs on the streets. But it was the disease. When she lied and didn't come home, when she cheated. But it was the disease.
Forgive, don't forget. Forget. To each their own. But the slam part -- the battle, the opposition, the enemy, etc. Well, the other part that has been mentioned, and to me, it's a big part -- who is the alcoholic/addict being? Where are they at? Do they want, truly want to get better and are now ready to find and live recovery...or not. To me, that's the telling part. Actions speak louder than words. That's just me.
Thanks again Rose.
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Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
Hello Rose.
Words can build up or tear down. This site is meant to share Experience, Strength, and HOPE.
I have stopped coming onto this site as often as I did previously due to the negative comments and venom being spewed out
It has gotten to the point that reading what is shared by many has left me feeling heartbroken and negative.
I do value those who have stuck to the program in their postings.
I do hope that things get back on track.
Best of luck to you.
I am sorry that you have been put off by the many posting here on MIP I understand that recovery is about sharing our ESH in order to solve our common problem.
The more experienced members, who share their recovery with us all help us to grow,as we can readily identify with the pain that a new comer feels.
I felt as you did at a few alanon face to face meetings and i was advised that if I wanted the tone of the meeting to change, that I needed keep coming back and sharing and" be the change I wanted to see"-- They were right- It worked.
Please keep coming back
Dear Bo......what a great post you made on my thread...and I agree, the battle was with myself...and I also related to your comment that basically it was ME against THEM...the Alcoholic....I basically arrived at this decision that I posted about as a gift to ME, and to also illustrate that not all alcoholics are the same.....I was judging them all the same way....I tossed them all in the same trash bucket.....UNfair...UNrealistic...yea, I get frustrated with my brother, but I see the good in him because I can still see where his heart is at....And I shall forgive most of them and forget NOT what they did (hence my need for boundaries and rules by which I live my life to take care of me)....I also view., WHO is the alcoholic/addict being??? and where are they at now?? and yes, do they WANT to get better??? what you say is the telling part for rme, too....I have an older male sibling who when I got into recovery (found out he was a wife abuser) he actually WISHED that I would either die or go insane so I would SHUT UP about my sharing in recovery, he even threatened to "help me in my death".....He still feels that way and wishes those awful things on me to this day....my boundary??? Hes out of my life...He does not exist in my life as a brother, as a bio relative.I want nothing to do with him, nor do I claim him.......but do i return his ill will??? NO!! that is bad karma for me...DO i hope HE dies or goes insane which is what he wants for me?? NO..that is HIS energy that he will reap for himself...
I , when I hear about him cursing and condemning me, I just light a candle and speak to my angels and I ask them to confine his hate and ill will for me into his own back yard and to protect me and mine from his dark energy...his ACTIONS did speak louder, yes, it was words, but he did threaten , if he got his hands on me, to my other , beloved brother, he WOULD harm me...my GOOD brother told him he would "take him on and it would be bad" if he harmed me in anyway......
I just told my loved brother "ok, thanks for the warning-I will take care of me" In Texas we have a stand your ground law where one is lawfully able to take whatever force is necessary to protect themselves......I found out he was driving through TX to get to CA to see my now dying sister and was going to "stop by and see me".., upon finding that out, I issued a warning to sister (she was not so sick then) and to my loving brother, to make sure they tell him, that I will take whatever force I need to protect me and that he was NOT ever welcome to visit me or step on my property and that I was going to give the cops a heads up about him and his threats towards me..., I will do what I have to do to protect me....
I called the police and told them this possible threat and they told me point blank (I am neighborhood watch co-captian and i know the cops here) and they said, if he comes onto my property and is threatening in anyway, to call 911 and if things get serious, I have the right to use what force necessary to defend me.....I told sister this, and I told my loving brother this and obviously they warned him because he made a few choice remarks about me, but he did stay away....I am glad it turned out that way but I would have defended me....
so yea, I know where he is at...his actions speak loud and clear....I STAY AWAY..I don't think about him but every now and again when sharing in recovery room and it comes up ...so yea...where is he at??? NOT where I want to be....could I forgive him if he were to sincerely apologize??? Perhaps, if I saw sustained "good fruit" on his part...would I want him near me??? NO!!! threats against my life and his hideous fantasies as t how he wants to kill me, I could never forget nor let him ever come around me.....
Its sad but its the reality of my non recovery family....Some of them I love, the others, I use the al-anon "take what you want and leave the rest" mind set...many of my relatives I just cut loose from my life because I deserve to be happy, safe, healthy, free, and at peace and free to pursue my goals as long as I do not harm another creature....
I can eventually forgive quite a lot, but to reconcile?? that is another issue all together...forgiveness is releasing ME from the hate and revenge and negativity that only harms me....
but back to my original thought----I do agree with you about it WAS "me against all the alcoholics" even the ones who ARE fighting to recover and reach a good place and it was unfair of me to lump those folks in with the ones who willfully are in a dark place and dont' want to come out of it...Those I avoid.....that said, I still dont' have the right to condemn them...I make judgement calls each time I make a decision to do or say something so "judging" in that respect is human...but to condemn someone who is trying to be in a better place is just not right.....
Hi Alf..thank you for your kind response, and I so agree..WORDS are sharper than the sword they can rip someone to pieces or bless them....and i agree, on my post here I was sharing my experience and my HOPE for a better mindset...and it took strength on my part to open my self up to better thinking....I hope , anyway...I do hope I was not part of your not wanting to be on this site, due to negativity and venom...if I did, I was in my sickness which I fight each day to lessen and/or mitigate and hopefully recover from....I am so sorry that your experiences here hurt your heart...I do my best with the tools I have today..perhaps tomorrow, if I make good energy today, will continue on moving forward...I have had a lot of pain to process and to grieve and to work through...Anger off the charts...and I had the RIGHT to be angry, but not to direct it at another fellow recovery traveler...to keep the focus on me which is what I believe that I did...
I do hope you keep coming back and let me tell you, this program has resurrected me from the walking, spiritual dead, to someone who wants to embrace life and the positives of it....I want to put out good energy...not bad...not anymore...I want to burn and throw away,the hate, revenge, resentment, et al...as an AMEND to ME...I've poisoned myself long enough, carrying these ragged, wretched thoughts and emotions...in my current life, there is no place , anymore, for these unwanted energies....its time for me to be good to me...
Thank you for your share....Blessings!!! please come back
A little lady named Grace showed up on my post, attempting to be acquainted with the site...Someone on here , I believe , posted a reply to her...Grace I am glad you happened to find my thread, and I do hope that you will give us a try...kind of a heavy post to "visit" LOL but glad you found us and I hope to see you come back....
