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I think this is off topic b/c my son is not my qualifier. But I am needing some ESH, b/c a lot of Al-Anon tools help me with my actions with all the people in my life.
My son just finished his junior year, but is 16, not quite 17 yet. My AH and I have been allowing him more freedoms. Our boundaries regarding parties is that parents must be present, and no drinking/drugging (knowing he will probably anyway). We've had the talk about making smart choices and calling us if he gets in a jam - no matter what. Our son knows about his dad's drinking issues, and while he refuses to go to teen-anon, he does see a therapist twice a month to help with that and other issues. He has been told and understands the genetics and dynamics of addiction.
OK. Enough background. This is what I need ESH on: He had asked to go to a friend's party earlier in the week.
1. It was an end of year slumber party "hosted by a band member's parents" who happens to be a girl.
2. Both sexes were invited, and parents were "cool with guys and girls having a sleep-over."
3. It began at 10:00 pm.
Now all three of these things put up alarms for me. I told my son that. But I agreed to wait for more information until I gave my answer. I did some research with my peers. All but one said that there was no way their sons would be able to do this. Party yes, sleepover no. Now there were some mitigating factors....
1. I know the parents. Not well, but good enough to make me doubt my intuition.
2. I know the girl. Very well-rounded, straight A student, who is very polite with a long standing boyfriend.
3. My son had come out as gay last year, but this year feels more bi-sexual.
4. We (especially me) have been allowing our son more freedoms and specifically to me, trying hard to not be so suspicious. Due to my circumstances with my AH, I no longer have trust in ANYONE. Yes, that is sad, but all too true. Sometimes it makes it very, very hard on my son. But I have learned over the years to trust my intuition.
So tonight I took him to the party. A car was in the driveway, but it didn't look or sound like a party. So I drove a short distance away and parked... and waited. When nothing happened, I texted my son about the other people. He told me that one person couldn't come, but the others would be there soon. I asked him the girl's mom was there and he said, "Yes." So I reluctantly drove home. About 10 min. later I drive up in my drive way and get a text from my son. It read, "OK, so Jasmine told me the actual party is at her cousin's house, her family is there throwing the party and her mom will take us and back and we will sleep where you dropped me off." "She just now told me this btw." So I asked him to text me address of party. As I figured, it isn't in the best part of that town. Certainly not a place I would've originally said he could go. My AH said to tell son to have the mom call us. Son's response: "OK, she's not here yet, I will when she gets here - they went out to buy food."
I told him that if she doesn't call us, we're coming to get him, b/c this whole thing doesn't make sense. His response was "This whole thing does make sense, you just don't get it." A button pushing statement for me btw. So I told him, "Who has a family party that starts at 10:00 pm at night and are just getting the food?"
Anyway, a person calls and explains just about what my son has told me, but when I questioned her about the sleepover, she said, "Yes, I will be taking them to Jasmine's house for the sleeping." Now, I know there are language issues (native Spanish speaker), but wouldn't a mom say "MY house" or "My daughter's house?" So I thanked the mother and I then texted my son and told him I did not believe that was the mom and the reason why, and that I was coming to get him. He started texting me in all caps..."HOW CAN YOU BE SERIOUS?" "English is not her first language. I am going to be mature and let you come talk to her, even though that's MASSIVELY embarrassing and NOT trusting. "I'll text you when she gets here." Unbeknownst to him, I was already outside of the house waiting in the car. I waited 30 min. and no one showed up!
My AH texted me to not go to the door but to tell him to come out to the car so as not to embarrass him. But I was to tell him I was taking him home. He came, but so did the two girls "to vouch for him." I explained my problems with the situation not the least being there were no other boys there (they couldn't come) and that he had to get his stuff and come home. What ensued was a littany of you nevers, and how are you going to trust me if you don't let me do stuff, and on and on. But the WORST... the WORST was him yelling at me that "This is the reason I am never invited anywhere mom, because you are 'THAT MOM!'I quietly told him, now wait a minute! I have asked all my mom friends about this situation before I said you could try it, and NONE of them said they would allow their sons to attend... NONE! But he kept arguing. I finally took a deep breath and asked myself how much of this insanity is worth all the arguing - and I decided none. My AH wasn't driving all over late at night (by this time is was after 11 pm)... he wasn't the one getting chewed out by the son, I was. So I told him just go. But this type of "bait and switch" thing will NEVER fly with me again!
When I left, I drove by the party address... it was indeed in a sketchy part of the city (which has been having some gang issues of late), and it was a large front yard party with many people who looked way older than high school. To top it off, my son later texts me that they are leaving the house for the party, but it's not his friend's mom driving them but her cousin. That angered me so much that I traced back the earlier call to try and talk to the mother. A sleepy man answered (I am assuming the dad) and does give me to the mother. She basically told me that she took them and will be picking them up later. I then let her know that my son just texted me that they were driven by a cousin, not you. I then asked if she was even at the party. Her English gets a little worse and I make out that she is at a house "nearby." WTH?
So now that you all know the story, I am trying to figure out how to navigate this. Because, I know that I have been in situations as a teen where you tell your parents one thing that's legitimate, but all of a sudden you are in a position that isn't what you said, but you can't leave (or don't want to leave). I also know that I can't control what the mom said or did. I can't even control what the friend told my son. For all I know, she may have told him the bare minimum. So it may be an issue of my son was invited to something that turned into something else that he didn't have control of. But, teens lie. I mean, I was the golden child, but I lied. Not frequently, but in instances where I really wanted to do something and I knew the chances of me getting caught were slim, I bent the truth. I went over to a trusted friend's house whose mother allowed her to go to parties. Stuff like that. Thank God they didn't have GPS back then! LOL!
Anyway, since I have HUGE trust issues, and I feel my son was using sentences that would push my buttons, I thought i would get an outside, calm perspectives on this... b/c my AH was fuming mad... anger-texting my son, yelling at me (but not drunk btw). So I know his outlook on this is skewed by anger. BTW, he was passive-aggressively yelling at me about letting DS go, even though I called him and discussed it briefly with him and he agreed with allowing him to go and dealing with this in the morning. Sigh!
If you are still with this long post, thank you for bearing with me!
__________________
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
I am a little confused by the end of the story and by what happened, whether you let your son go to the thing and sleep over or what. So I'm sorry if I make any mistakes in talking about what happened.
I am with you and your friends that I would never allow my son to do this. It started off sounding sketchy and got sketchier by the minute. As soon as it was clear that my son was going to be someplace where I didn't know the parents and had had no chance to sound out the situation beforehand, that would have been the end of it. No sleepover, no party for him. If he had said, "But you don't trust me!" I would have said, "I am not required to trust you."
The truth is that even good teenagers get influenced to make bad choices. Even good teenagers find themselves in over their heads sometimes. Even good teenagers get swept along with the crowd. Even good teenagers have impulses they don't have the experience to control. Even good teenagers think that they're more mature and capable than they are. That's where we the parents have to step in and set the boundaries.
The whole thing you describe is chaos so who knows what the original plan was or who changed it or whatever. The way I see it, if I agree to a certain plan, I am in no way obliged to agree to any change of plan. Especially if the plan gets sketchier. Especially if I can't even talk to the other parents because of a language barrier!
In my experience, kids don't get "not invited" to things because their parents are too strict. They get invited but they're not allowed to go. Does that mean you're too strict? No. It means your teenager is trying to push boundaries. In a way, that's a teenager's job. He pushes to see how far he can go, and we parents show them how far they can do. Not past a point of safety, is how far.
They are like alcoholics in that they will keep pushing. And if we give way, they will think, "Right, I got away with that one, I will know to push next time." So we have to stay on the alert. However, unlike alcoholics, it's not dysfunctional of them to push boundaries. It's part of growing up. So we shouldn't take it personally. But we should hold firm.
I see your teen pushing and pushing, and the situation changing so fast that it was hard to keep up. Frankly, after the first change of plan, I would have said, "I have not approved any of this. You need to come home, I am picking you up in X minutes, we will discuss this tomorrow after everyone has calmed down." Of course at first there will be a big fuss from him. But when he sees that the rules are clear-cut, he will know where he stands. And from someone whose parents set no boundaries, I'll just say that he will secretly (he will never admit this!) be glad you know how to keep him safe.
PNP,
My son is 34, and his sister who I raised just turned 40. I was very lucky that I lived in a small town and everyone knew everyone else. Kids grew up doing a lot of activities with church groups, and school things. I think that in the future if anything like this comes up again, you should talk to the parents face to face instead of over the phone. From what I have been reading from you about your son he sounds pretty responsible, but as you said things happen. We have had a lot of gang activity in the cities near me. Don't feel bad about the way you acted, and what your son said about him not getting invited to things was most likely not true. Kids say those things. You have to remember that even though your son is a certain age, you are still the parent. Maybe, you could give him a choice if he ask again, something you feel safer about.
PnP - My boys never gave me credit for that which I did 'right' in their minds, but certainly did get into the button pushing mode when they did not get their way. You have every right, as a parent, to know where he is at all times. It's the law in our area - if my kids get busted doing ANYTHING illegal from curfew to worse, the parents get the ticket/fine/etc.
So - part of being responsible is to be able to share with me ALL the details. If things change, it's their job to update me. The first time I caught wind of shenanigans, consequences. We are not their friend - we are the parent. It's our job to make sure they make it to 18 in one piece!
Mine were on a short leash for disrespect. I have no issue with polite differences of opinion and/or perspective but the disrespect always made me believe they were not as mature as I hoped. After all, it is their job to build trust and to convince us they are mature enough to handle the life situations they desire to participate in.
Mine wanted to have the privileges of a young adult without demonstrating the maturity. I spent a ton of time teaching them right from wrong - and handling disappointment with dignity and respect....
I would have said No. Mine did a ton of sleepovers in junior high and I heard that at the HS level, most sleep-overs are far from innocent. So, I just said No more sleepovers - I wanted them home in my house each night just to avoid as much trouble as possible....
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Mattie and IamHere - Thank you so much for staying with this long, convoluted post!! As I thought, I got what I wanted... some ESH on how to keep my boundaries! Also a little pat on the back that I wasn't crazy for having the feelings I have for these plans.
Why is this important? Because as a relative newbie to Al-Anon, and living with addiction for a good length of time, you get conditioned. The qualifier CONDITIONS you to stop believing in that little voice of reason in your head. They gaslight you until you can't even think straight.
Thank you!
__________________
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
I don't have kids myself, so I can only share what has worked in summer camp
I think laying out clear expectations is key: It is ok with me if you go to this co-ed sleepover at this house, and while you are there, I expect that you will stay there, the parents will be home, whatever else, and that you will text me if any of these expectations are not met. I am hesitant to let you go, but I trust that you will do the right thing and I know that this is important to you.
Then, at the first sign of expectations not being met, I'd pick him up: My expectations were that you would stay at the house, that a parent would be home, whatever else. That is not what is happening, and so I am picking you up in X minutes.
Beyond that, I think of J.A.D.E. - no need to justify, argue, defend, or explain. You set clear expectations, your expectations were not met, and so the activity ends. It takes two to argue about the sleepover. Nothing wrong with not participating in that argument
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Skorpi
If you are depressed, you are living in the past. If you are anxious, you are living in the future. If you are at peace, you are living in the present. - Lao Tzu
I think we can only ever do what we know to be right and confusion comes when we doubt ourselves. You weren't cool with it, alarm bells were ringing. Your his mum, you have a right to say no. If one can't honestly bring ones self to say yes to something because its uncomfortable, a no from the outset probably saves a lot of hassle all round.
I had one best friend as a teenager. Our parents were extra parents to both of us. Not to say our parents were saints because they weren't, mine gambled and drank, hers smoked a lot of weed and held good jobs, but the basics were always covered, our families shared some values, like loving us. Not all of my peers had that. I remember as a kid, going anywhere, mum had to meet the parents and I always took food into the house for the host family, even for an afternoon. If she didn't have a good feeling, she'd come collect me early and i didnt go again. She also knew all of my friends who were bought home for a feed. My best friends parents were the same. We all congregated there because there was always food. They never really questioned us, but there were rules my friend and her brother had to follow regardless of whether mates were there or not. Like washing the dishes, feeding the dogs. Us friends knew the family hierachy and we slotted in to it naturally. Her parents were pretty awesome really. Not much spoken but plenty said, food is its own language.
Its not true that our parents always knew where we were, but they were around us enough to get a sense of who we were. I guess they trusted us based on what they observed. Respect and trust were and are two way streets.
As ever, take what helps, leave the rest.
Even though I was not happy with the way things flowed, because of all the GOOD experience shared here, I was able to sit with my AH and son and let him know the good and bad for what happened. How I was feeling, how his angry words made me feel and why, and also what was my part in all the crazy. Thankfully, my husband had not been drinking yesterday at all, so he was clear-headed and able to weigh-in on his feelings - mostly that he thought our son's words disrespected me.
I also was able to calmly and thoughtfully re-explain our "conditions" or expectations for his teen freedom, and let him know exactly what you said Skorpi, if these expectations weren't meant, I will be picking him up and there will be no J.A.D.E. 'ing. At all.
That being said, as parents, we did commend him on keeping us updated via text, and pointed out that it was something he could've easily not done.
This ended up being a good lesson for both of us.... My son got a lesson on how to stay safe and deal with his expectations that weren't met (and possibly being used as a means to go to an "older" party by these girls), AND my lessons were of Letting Go, Letting God, how to re-establish my boundaries in a loving manner, and to deal with JADING in a calm manner as well. I also got a lesson on how to be a little more flexible and the world not coming to an "end" if my plans or expectations change.
Maybe next time I will do better! Progress not Perfection, right?
__________________
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
