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Hi
Can you tell me a little about spontaneous recovery from heroin addiction? I'm so confused.Always thought opioid addicts needed treatment or some type of recovery support system like AA or NA in order to maintain long-term sobriety. I have a niece who was a heroin addict for three years and says she's now clean for a year, even though she hasn't been treated and refuses any type of support group or counseling. I'm purposely not allowing her back into my life bc I do not believe she's doing the work necessary, and feel it's only a matter of time before she gets sucked back in. Am I wrong to be setting limits? She swears she's clean. The rest of the family is embracing her and feels I'm wrong bc I won't "let it go" that she used to use, but I see it as I just refuse to enable her. Am I wrong? Is spontaneous recovery from heroin, without any form of treatment or recovery support system, possible? I didn't think it was....but maybe I'm wrong? She's been drawing on the support of non-recovery family members to stay clean. I just see this as a huge recipe for disaster. Am I wrong? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Everyone gets to choose their own reaction to things. I'm sure spontaneous recovery has happened in history, and I'm also sure it's not the norm. Who knows? The good news is that, as the saying is, "More will be revealed." If you're right to be cautious, that will become apparent. If she stays drug-free for the rest of her life, that will be revealed too. Meanwhile your skepticism is a perfectly normal reaction, just as other people's hopefulness is normal. You don't get to choose their reactions and they don't get to choose yours. Take good care of yourself.
Welcome to MIP Turbos....I have no experience related to your situation yet do feel that we all are allowed to set the boundaries we need for our own personal sanity/safety. If you feel your life is better 'from a distance', that's certainly your choice. When we discuss boundaries and detaching in Al-anon, we are asked to consider our motives and ensure they are for us and not punitive towards another.
There are some in my family that I keep at arms length. There are times when I'm in contact with my qualifiers and then times I am not. I do not ever close doors permanently as I do believe people are capable of change/recovery. Yet, when I step away, I do so as best I can with the intent of self-sanity-preservation and not to avoid the elephant in the room.
Keep coming back - another very important element of recovery is we try not to project into the future nor do we slam the door on the past. Instead, we live one day at a time and rely on a power greater than us to get through each day.
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
What about this notion of getting and staying sober by relying on family support alone, without a recovery support system? Everything I've learned about addiction has taught me that addicts cannot maintain long-term sobriety by trying to do it alone. That is the main reason I am so skeptical of my niece claiming she's been off drugs a year, cuz she refuses any type of help. Her and the rest of the family believe addiction is a choice, and not a disease, and therefore feel she doesn't need anything in place to stay off drugs. She can just will herself clean.
That just goes against everything I've learned... But then there is evidence of spontaneous recovery in alcoholics.....just never heard of it happening with opioids.
My experience - I had a grandpa who was a daily drunk. Every day, without fail, he drank to oblivion until he passed out. He did go to work M-F but the habit remained the same for years and years and years and years. Each weekend, he started drinking earlier since he had no work and the end result was the same.
My grandma threatened to leave him and this was a time when divorce was 'not acceptable' to our religion. He went up onto the alter, confessed his sins, swore off the booze and never drank again. He returned to the same alter each year on the same day and that's what worked for him. He never touched any recovery and passed away in the mid 70's from heart disease.
So - who are we to suggest formal recovery is the only way? I've known others with similar experiences - quit cold turkey and will-powered through it. I know for me, it would not work. I needed more - I needed support, a tribe of folks who understand, etc. But - I never judge another's journey - that's not my job. My job (I am a double winner) each day is to rely on my higher power to stay sane, serene, sober and of service.
HTH....
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I mean I guess it's confusing bc I was always taught that if you're a loved one if an addict, you want to look at the things they are doing to stay sober, when trying to determine if they are being honest or still using. "You can't trust an addict" when active in their addiction. But also, that they are good liars, and good at denial. So how else do we as loved ones decide for ourselves if someone is really serious about staying off drugs? Also, I thought alanon talked about how loved ones enable and participate in the disease..... Isn't allowing yourself as a family member to be the addicts sole form of recovery support the essence of a codependent relationship?
If fact, I thought alanon teaches that family members are NOT the best people to play that role, bc the family is sick, too.....is this wrong? I'm so confused.
Hi Turbos02. I have known some people who have got free from drink and drugs without meetings. I'm a recovering addict as well as an alanon member and I needed meetings, I don't know if I could have stayed clean without them. I don't know if I will stay clean forever, even with meetings, it's a day at a time for every recovering addict and alcoholic in my understanding. I have seen people with years of recovery and meetings go back out and use. I believe that working a programme to the best of our ability helps us to deal with our feelings, our thinking, our pasts, and just life in general. They say that the dinking or the drugging are just a symptom of the disease. I think also that the spiritual awakening is what heals us and keeps us clean. I don't believe the 12 steps are the only way to a spiritual awakening. Maybe yor niece has found a Higher Power? As for the alanon bit, for me, it's about protecting myself from the insanity of the disease whether the alcoholics and addicts around me are drinking or using or not. I have a son who is in recovery, attending meetings, whose behaviour is still off the wall at times. I have another son who is using cannabis regularly who's a much more easy going, agreeable kind of lad. I want both of them in my life, they are my children and I love them both dearly but I have to be careful in my dealings with them and really take those relationships one day, one interaction, at a time. I try to detach from the disease, to look at whether I am enabling, either using, or unacceptable behaviour, but to still show that I love them. It's tricky, I know. I have two children who don't seem to have the disease too, and these relationships are so much simpler. Meetings help a lot. I don't think there's any right or wrong, I suppose we all just do the best we can in any moment to deal with the devastating consequences of this disease.
Turbos - what we learn in Al-Anon is to focus on ourselves, and allow others to do what they need to do. This disease, whether drugs, alcohol, food, shopping, gambling, etc. sucks the life out of everyone - family and friends included. By obsessing over what others are doing, we are as insane as they are. We learn that we are powerless over the addict, the alcoholic, all people, places and things.
We don't focus on what they are doing or if they are working a program. We let them go and allow them their journey. I have 2 sons - both addicts. I began my recovery, Al-Anon journey and my husband did not. It made for many, many challenges between us but they were already there. I could not affect any change in him just as I could not affect a change in my sons. Every person affected by the disease - directly or indirectly has to decide when they want to do/be different.
You are free to set your own boundaries no matter what others choose to do (in your family). You are free to attend recovery meetings or not. You are free to be in contact or not. I believe when the family unit is drawn together because of addiction, the dysfunction is magnified and it's chaos. Al-Anon gave me back the freedom to do what I wanted/needed to do for me no matter what anyone is doing.
It is worthy of mention that even addicts/alcoholics active in a recovery program relapse often. It's a disease that affects the thinking, mind, soul, etc. and it's an obsession that is stronger than anything else. So - attending and being active in a recovery program is not a guarantee for success - there are no guarantees and each person is recovery tries to focus on just one day at a time.
Again, I don't judge addicts/alcoholics - I am one... It's a disease. Recovery tells us that all are affected - family, friends, etc. I now know that I have no influence over others and they are allowed their journey as they see fit. It's a freeing piece of acceptance that I am so very grateful for. I do suggest you seek out local meetings and try to keep an open mind regarding what Al-Anon is all about. There is hope and help in recovery...
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thanks for your messages. Perhaps I have been too judgemental. I know relapse is almost inevitable no matter what is being done to prevent them, but it just seems like a person sets themselves up for success by having certain things in place, like treatment, or AA, or some type of recovery support system. What I was taught was that opiate addiction is too powerful to fight with will power alone. That it's a disease that must be treated, just like diabetes or heart disease. So, maybe it's not a disease after all....if someone can will their way out of it?
Hello Turbos,
I am a recovering addict/alcoholic, I did not require years of treatment. I was not addicted to opiates, but that should not matter. I would leave a place in your heart for your niece if she was an important part of your life. Alanon is a good place to learn how to set boundaries. No one can really say that your niece will or will not use again. Maybe she will, but maybe her family is just glad to have her back living a sober life for whatever time that it is. She is alive, and she is safe. For them, that might be enough for now.
I would say that if someone could will their way out of it, I'm happy for them. Sometimes people can "will their way" out of type 2 diabetes, by losing weight and being careful about what they eat. But that doesn't mean diabetes is not a disease.
I think it makes it easier on us if we put our attention on ourselves and let others follow their own paths. I know when there's an addict involved, there's a yearning to know what the future holds, so we know whether to brace ourselves or relax. And uncertainty is just the name of the game and what we have to live with. That's why we put the focus back on ourselves, the only person we can control. I hope you have a face-to-face meeting? Those are very supportive and helpful as we find our own paths.
I believe addiction is a disease. I also believe that each person who experiments with mind/mood altering substances is affected differently. I've heard of some who were addicted the first time they used a substance and I've also heard of people who had no affect when using a substance. My point is all we know is how it affects us, the individual, and we each get to decide if we need formal recovery or not.
I can suggest I was one who needed treatment. I needed to be in a controlled environment and taught how to avoid slippery places, people, etc. I needed a huge break from the substances as well as life because I'd never adulted without being in an altered state. I do not think I could have ever stopped using substances without treatment. Yet, I see folks who've been drinking for 30-40 years walk into AA and be able to use the program, fellowship, steps, suggestions and not drink, one day at a time, successfully.
I do 100% agree with what Sharon has shared....as a sober person with the disease all around me, I am grateful that my son has 6 days clean and is alive. That is more than enough for me, just for today. If he slips, I adjust accordingly. If he stays sober, I support as best I can. There have been moments in his journey that if it were an option, I would have run away, had no contact and just started a new life. However, that's not a realistic solution either. Instead, I've worked in Al-Anon to focus on me, and to protect me from the affects of this disease.
Trust is earned and there is no shame in doing what you need to protect you. Al-Anon is the gift that keeps on giving and I'm grateful I found it when I did (wish I found it earlier).
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thank you again to all who are sharing. It is so very helpful and appreciated.
Please don't misunderstand me. When I talk about how my niece is doing it all alone, I am not just referring to the fact that she hasn't had formal treatment. I'm also referring to the fact that she refuses supports like AA and other recovery support systems. I completely agree that people to stay clean through the help of AA and NA, without having undergone inpatient or intensive outpatient treatment. I've also read about people getting and staying clean through individual counseling or therapy. What has me so skeptical with respect to my niece, is the lack of any form of support other than family members who are not themselves in recovery. She's basically not doing anything other than sheer will. She has no real plan for preventing relapse. This is why I'm so skeptical. What I know if heroin, it's so powerful that even with all the treatment s and supports in place, people relapse....yet I am supposed to believe that this untreated addict, who also has undeying untreated mental health issues, is going to beat this disease basically by relying on support of family only. I just can't accept that, at least not accept it in terms if being evidence that she's "recovered" as the family claims.
I should mention that I'm a licensed social worker who concentrated in addiction during grad school and have spent a lot of time working in treatment centers. I'm truly not coming from a place of judgement with respect to my niece; it's more of an academic and research based place I am coming from in terms if what I know about addiction being a disease, what works (in most cases) and what doesn't ( in most cases). I am aware that there are always exceptions, and I am grateful she is alive today like others mentioned about their loved ones.
I wanted to add something .. I have a girlfriend who has been a childhood friend. She was the kid who literally tried everything (except heroin). She actually was a consistent user of crack cocaine. You have realize I watched a guy I wasn't dating him .. however he was a co-worker and I was young, 19ish young and he threw everything away for crack .. he had 25 years in to his job a really great job by the way stocker at a grocery store, owned his own home, getting married to a great girl and so on .. tried crack and in 6 weeks LOST everything. I remember him being gone and coming back from rehab .. went back out and I have no idea what happened after that. It was sad. He was a nice guy.
My childhood girlfriend .. anyway, she was actively using crack and told me the story later .. she just stopped .. no nothing .. no NA, no therapy, no nothing, just decided this is it and never went back to it. Her brain is just wired differently. Do I think that is the norm? No. Do I think everyone can do that? No. Do I think it happens? Probably less than 1% of drug users can do that.
We have had extensive discussions about why she never tried heroin. She doesn't like needles. Also why she doesn't care for 12 step programs .. because she quit the way she did she doesn't get why other people can't .. as I pointed out she married a very active A as well as drug user and he has never been able to quit. They are sense divorced and he's in prison at the moment.
So yes .. it can happen .. it's not the "norm" of recovery.
Hugs glad you are here :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Hi Turbo Welcome Since you have a degree in Social Work and have worked in recovery houses, I am sure you are better armed to answer this question.
Alanon and the Miracle in Progress message board are recovery space designed for family members of alcoholics. I do believe the addictions are different and I am not equipped to discuss the subject with you. i would just like to say that I salute your niece for her ability to stop and pray that it continue.
I am not sure quite what you are seeking. The real answer to your question of whether your niece can stay away from her addiction is: "Honestly, probably not. But there is an outside chance. At this point it is unknowable."
There is a saying in Al-Anon about the addict: "She's going to do what she's going to do. What are you going to do?" I think that is the real answer to your question.
Let me clarify what I'm asking... We come from a very large family. When my niece was active in her addiction, she did a lot of things that hurt people (no kidding, right?). For a period of time, pretty much all her extended relatives made it known that she was not welcome in their homes (bc she was using, and bc of some of the hurtful things she had done). After a period of time (6 months or so), she told everyone she was off drugs, had turned her life around, changed her ways, etc. The family (aunt's, uncle's, cousins) welcomed her back into their lives and allowed her to come around again, to birthday parties, family functions, etc. Everyone welcomed her back, that is, except me, bc in my mind, knowing what I know about addiction, and feeling that it is a serious disease that requires some type of support, treatment, or just SOMEthing to recover, I feel everyone is being kind of ignorant about things. I feel they are setting themselves up to get hurt by her again. Basically they believe she is off drugs now bc she says she is. But we all know addicts lie, and she has lied many times before. She's never apologized for any of the things she did to people, and does not evidence an ounce of humility. To me, what I see, is an untreated addict with no plan, relying on the very people who enabled her for so long as her primary support....someone who is just winging it basically....and yes, if I'm honest, I have to say that I think the family is being really stupid about it, and I feel it's a form of enabling. They don't understand my point of view...they don't believe it's a disease...they believe ever she tells them, and haven't educated themselves at all. But the fact that it's all of them embracing her, and then just me setting very clear, hard boundaries, makes me question myself..... Makes me feel like maybe I am wrong to be assessing this situation the way I am. So I was looking for input here, objective feedback.
And yes, I realize relapse is almost inevitable regardless of the situation....but,I feel there's a difference between someone whose trying to get well having a relapse, and someone whose unwilling to do anything and having a relapse. I just feel that with so many people dying, the family is enabling her by not encouraging her to do more about her addiction. To just welcome her back, take her word for it that she's off drugs, and think that she's totally "recovered"... I just worry so much for everyone. But I also feel bad if I'm making a mistake about all this....
I will bring up my addiction to add something to a conversation that might help someone or prove a point but I have to agree with Betty. Sharing with family members and regular people is a lot different than a clinical discussion with a professional. You are being to analytical and you have that right, but we come to Alanon to heal ourselves and is this making you feel better?
-- Edited by shrnp on Wednesday 3rd of May 2017 05:45:06 PM
I do understand your point and believe that Naranon would probably be a better place to solicit objective feed back as alanon is dedicated to families of alcoholics and I do not feel the addictions respond in the same manner. .
Turbo,
You do not have to agree with your family. You can learn through a program like Alanon or Naranon how to have your feelings and still be a part of your family. We learn to detach with love. Maybe you just need to understand what a program like this does. I am sorry you are having a hard time accepting your families decision to accept your niece back into their lives. There are boundaries that you can have for example, like not lending your niece money or not having her in your house because she might steal something, but you can go to someone else's house and be around her. There are many ways to keep your opinion and get along with your family.
I guess I thought I was doing the healthy thing by not allowing her back into my life until I see evidence that she's willing to work at real recovery. I thought I was doing what alanon would support, which is to not enable her to do it "her" way, cuz I thought all addicts try to do it their way until they it rock bottom and realize they need help. I wanted to pose this situation to people in alanon to see if they thought I was wrong since I'm feeling so confused.
Shnrp...that's exactly what I've done. I've said she can't come to our home, but I have no problem if we go to someone else's home and she is there. I just keep my distance is all. That's an example of a type of boundary setting that I feel is wise for myself. The family does not understand this though, and gets upset with me about it Everytime we have something at our house and she's not invited. This has led me to question myself: Am I setting healthy boundaries, or am I just being unforgiving?
Turbo:if you were talking about an alcoholic alanon would state that we are powerless over people places and things. Each person must decide how to respond to a person who states that they are recovered. There are no hard an fast rules in alanon. We should keep an open mind, honestly look at the reality of how the person is living now, what they are doing and saying and then pray about our decision. We believe that it will become evident quickly if the person is sincere . Good luck
Turbo,
Some people use Alanon for a loved one who has a drug addiction. The 12 steps and program principles are basically the same. Some people prefer the fellowship of one group over the other. I know people who would rather go to AA instead of narcotics anonymous. I think your original post got side tracked by the clinical aspect of your question, and the specific relationship of opiates. If you make it to a face to face meeting, it is recommended that you try different home groups until you find one you are comfortable with.
Thank you. I will keep that in mind. Just posting to a board was a big step for me, so I'm not sure if I'm ready for a f2f just yet. Will definitely keep it in mind though. Thanks again.
