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Hi all. Where do I begin? Well my alcoholic partner has been dry again for about 6 weeks and things were going ok for a while. That seems to be the usual pattern, a bit of a honeymoon period, maybe he's just relieved he's still alive or relieved he still has a partner after the binge or whatever, I'm not sure. He disclosed quite a lot of painful childhood trauma to myself and other close family members while he was drinking, things he had never really talked about before and I thought that might have helped him and helped us be closer as I was there for him and he seemed to really appreciate that.
Things have gotten difficult again over the last couple of weeks though. I had an old friend move to our area, she is also, I think, an active alcoholic and while I haven't been seeing an awful lot of her, active drinking is just too difficult for me to be around, I am also in recovery, my partner has turned against her. He has his reasons which I won't go into here, though to me his reactions are quite extreme and negative but it's been a hard situation for both of us, my friend is oblivious to what's been going on!
The other night my partner and I had words about her, it didn't get too heated, and I thought we had gotten it sorted. The following day was his birthday and we had arranged to go someplace and I had said I was cooking him dinner and making a cake later. We don't live together. Next morning when I texted he didn't want to go where we had arranged but said he'd come up for a cuppa later. When he came up he said he might be babysitting for his daughter that night. I said I was going to make you dinner. He said he had forgotten but he would come up for dinner. I won't lie, I felt like saying 'don't bother', I didn't believe he had forgotten, I was making the cake there when he came up. Anyway I went ahead with dinner because the last 2 birthdays have been ruined, along with Christmases etc, due mostly to his drinking and my reactions to his behaviours.
When he let I turned my phone off because I was tired, angry and just wanted a break from it all. When I turned it back on he was angry and didn't want to speak to me because I had turned it off without telling him so hadn't seen a text he sent and he was waiting all day for a reply. I apologised, I said I had felt hurt because he said he forgot about dinner and also he knew I had a doctors appointment that day which he didn't ask about because he was in angry, withholding mode. I didn't say that bit. I have been really working on trying to keep communication brief and respectful. He didn't acknowledge really that I said I felt hurt. I asked how he would feel if it was the other way around. He told me to stop texting.
I got very angry because this is what he does if I challenge him on anything, shuts me down, turns off his phone, he can stop speaking to me for weeks on end and it drives me mad, I know it shouldn't and if it drives me that mad I should just leave and not tolerate it. Its one rule for him and another for me. It's ok for him to express hurt and anger and in fairness I usually can apologise and try not to keep making the same mistakes. But I don't get the same back at all and it's me who keeps texting trying to sort things out. Last night I lost it and packed a jumper I've been knitting him and my key to his house and left them outside his door. Ihad texted to say I can't take the way he pushes me away anymore.
I'm sorry this is a long post, I'm venting, and thanks to anyone who has stuck with it. What I want to know is, would other readers be upset if partners forgot they were cooking dinner on their birthday? If they didn't ask about visit to doctor about health concern? Sometimes I find it hard to know what are reasonable expectations and whether I am over reacting. I know we probably can't really have any expectations when dealing with an alcoholic, one of the mistakes I make is expecting things to be better because he's not drinking. And sometimes they are. But there's the Jekyll and Hyde thing. From loving to stone cold in the blink of an eye. And I really feel I've had enough. But still it hurts today. It hurts to be treated like I'm so insignificant every time I challenge him in any way. I would love to hear other's ash. Thanks for reading.
I really hear where you are coming from .. however I have one question .. you are asking for someone who is an active drinker to think about someone else .. there is an alanon slogan that states you can't go to the hardware store looking for a loaf of bread and boy you are digging in the sawdust for that bread at the moment .. now that's my opinion. Ok that wasn't a question that was a statement .. I guess what are you getting out of asking for something he can't give you? Is he incredibly selfish .. well yes of course .. he's an active alcoholic and the disease of alcoholism is horribly selfish.
So my next question is what are YOU going to do? Are you attending meetings? Reading any lit? Or the harder thing is are you expecting some lightening bolt to come out of the sky and he'll see how totally wrong he was? I am asking the harder questions because nothing changes if nothing changes .. that's not slam the door on your relationship .. that's what are you doing to work on you?
I really do encourage you to do the work .. there is no magic fix there never will be outside of doing the hard inner work.
Yes .. it does hurt and it should hurt .. again back to the statement of this is who he is today and why are you expecting something different .. one, two, five weeks of changed behavior doesn't change the last however many years .. years of changed behavior doesn't change the difficult times however it makes going forward easier.
Keep coming back. Take what you like I know that it is painful to live with active alcoholism in a partner.
Hugs S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Hi Serenity, thanks for your reply. Yes I am going to meetings, reading, trying so hard to do things differently, to keep the focus on me, to work through my own feelings instead of trying to get him to fix me or fill me and a lot of the time I am doing well with all of that. He can be very kind and thoughtful until he's not! And then it's all about him and everyone else is wrong and he's the innocent victim. And I know I'm expecting him to be able to be something he's not probably and yes I do wish for that lightening bolt that shocks him into seeing his unreasonableness and what a great woman he has! But really I think I am just so tired of it all, and wishing for a relationship where the understanding and respect were more mutual. Or even the strength to stay out and be single at the moment.
(((Sarah))) - my experience is that active in disease or dry without recovery, my qualifiers are still negative nancy types and difficult to spend too much time with. They all have their moments of lovely, yet under the surface and as you suggest, in the drop of a coin, they can go to the dark side. When they go to the dark side, they are often self seeking, self serving and 'dismissive' of me. I use the word dismissive because they can act like I'm not there and they certainly can suggest and act as if I am unimportant in any way.
I've had to do a ton of program work to accept this is truly part of the disease and about them. No change in my actions, moods, etc. will make them better, kinder, more attentive, less selfish - it is what it is. I cooked a whole dinner for my son's birthday in March. He not only forgot - turned off his phone and ignore me/us until it was 'evening'. He then called and was angry that we ate his birthday dinner without him. I don't do drama any more so I just listened to him, told him Happy Birthday, suggested we were hungry at dinner time and offered to bring him some. He declined meanly.
The disease has the drinker believing they are the center of the universe and all that they do is ok, normal, acceptable, etc. This includes most things that rational minds would believe was less than normal/acceptable. Mine are so self-absorbed because of the disease that they don't recognize my birthday or mother's day or any important event. I used to be hurt/offended - then someone wiser than I in recovery suggested I had every right to take charge of my special day and do whatever I wanted. I now make plans and just do what I want to.
It took me a long while to realize --- I'd much rather spend time with friends who accept me as I am and I enjoy dearly than my family when the disease is active & ugly. I have a 'new family' in recovery, in softball, in golf, etc. and have learned how to just be in the moment and enjoy what is vs. what is not.
Keep doing your program work - it does get you to the other side. Be gentle with you and all will be as it should be. (((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Hello Sarah,
My ex-A was always unpredictable. There were a lot of ruined dinners and family holidays. Things did not get better until I started making plans without him. It was hard but worth it in the end. Things do not have to be like that, there are other people out there that can make plans and stick by them. That is great that you are working on your own recovery. Try to work on your serenity, things will seem clearer when you are calm.
((Sarah)) Funny I just posted earlier about my AH having a Jekyll and Hyde personality when he's drinking now. He's also extremely self-centered forgetting my birthday and Mother's Day, not wanting to spend Christmas with me and my family etc. He is EXTREMELY dismissive to me when he's drunk, telling me he doesn't care if he loses me, loses our kids, goes to jail--you name it he doesn't care. I guess this is a symptom of alcoholism. It sucks. Best of luck to you. I'm in the boat with you.
I get it. All of it. It's very corrosive is what I've found. But its part of the process I think to start looking at the situation and asking questions. Its very hard to figure out up from down with an alcoholic. I wonder sometimes what parts are alcoholism and what parts are just plain old rudeness. Either or, I am learning I don't care for it. And must always remind myself I'm powerless over it. Which is difficult, I won't lie, to accept, and I hit step one repeatedly with almost every interaction I have with my ex even in my mind. That's actually key though. I used to be bamboozled and try to be rational with insanity. It can't work. So now, no matter what scenario pops into my head regarding how this could still all work out, theres step one smiling at me. "Back again, Darling? I'm still here." Lol.
Alcoholism is a fourfold disease so even when one aspect isn't active, like actual drinking, the other parts will still be impacted. Like the blame game and avoiding all responsibility for everything, minor and major. We're told to listen with our eyes, but gee, even listening with my ears now that their not blocked by my own agendas, even that is pretty horrifying. You just keep coming back, remembering progress not perfection. you are not crazy to perceive something's not right here, because something isn't. Work your programme and you'll find the right actions become clear.
Hello Sorcha - like Jayla I am also in the same boat with you.
Yes - my AH has 'forgotten' birthday meals - most recently our son's 13th birthday celebration. He 'forgot' to buy him a present (brought himself alcohol instead); forgot how old he was and was 'sober' just long enough to grab some of the food before falling asleep again.
My personal experience is that it is emotionally better for me (at least from a short term coping point of view) - not to have any expectations as far as my AH is concerned and that way I don't get disappointed. I was retelling this at my alanon group and added that was a very low bar and that I am worth more than that. I realised there and then that having a husband where my expectation is that I can rely on him for nothing is no marriage for me or a father for their children. I have told him I want a separation and meanwhile am doing the very best I can to focus entirely on me and my wonderful children with the help of alanon.
I also get all the various dysfunctional behaviours from him - ignoring, trying to make me feel guilty etc. If the behaviour is negative I now simply state that the behaviour is unacceptable and remove myself from the situation and do something nice. If his behaviour is positive I am positive back. This provides a coping mechanism until we separate and for me protects my self esteem.
Thank you all, so good to get the replies this morning as I am finding it a struggle being back in this place where it all seems to have fallen apart again after all the hard work of the last few months. One thing I do know, when he puts this distance between us, it triggers all my fear of abandonment stuff and I have a lot of that from childhood and other relationships/losses. It's been so bad in this relationship due to a bereavement and empty nest when I met him. So when he does this pulling away, 'don't text me again' stuff, in the past it has really had me panicking so I would be trying really hard to talk, fix, etc, anything to not have to feel that fear, that aloneness, even though I wasn't always sure I actually wanted him, and I certainly didn't want to be chasing him when I felt he was treating me badly but that is what I did. I have done a lot of work over the last year, especially in the last 6 months around that fear of abandonment and around rebuilding my life after loss and change. Still, I can feel it. I don't want to stay or go back because of these feelings. I don't want to accept or condone unacceptable behaviour because I don't know how to soothe my own fear. He had huge power over me because he learned to manipulate me through this fear. I'm not saying it's deliberate or even conscious, maybe it's just another manifestation of the disease, the ego boost of having more power than the other in the relationship, I don't know. Like A4l said I'm not sure what's disease, rudeness or actually something else entirely, personality disorder maybe. And I just need to say that this man can be so kind, thoughtful, considerate too. He's not selfish all the time. Its when he's challenged, angry. But this morning I was thinking he starts doing things that he has to know I'm going to challenge, says something really off, stops making any time for me etc. Is he trying to start rows? Does he need constant dramas? Does he want breaks because it all just gets too much and it's simpler to focus on work and money? Anyway here I am obsessing about him and trying to figure him all out again.I don't want to contact him at the moment. I don't know whether I actually want the relationship any more unless he is prepared to do some work on himself and I don't believe he is or will be for along time. I feel he's dumping all his unresolved stuff on me. So today I want to focus on trying to help myself through the fear and the intense feelings that are coming up. Any suggestions for letting go of obsessive thinking and trying to work things out please?
Sarah - for me, when I am troubled in my own brain, I tend to either talk it out with my sponsor or a trusted program friend or do some writing in a journal. I do still almost always talk it out after I've done some writing as both help me to let it go. When I keep things in my head, I feel like a tennis match is happening - back/forth. When I write, I feel as if the writing is a brain purge of sorts.
Meetings always help me to feel less alone and less insane. I'm always gifted with ESH when I can attend and support if needed. (((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I find questions are often very helpful for getting my mind to consider possibilities rather than lock down on my opinion. So far I've found answers in AlAnon for every question I've had; the wisdom of the program is truly a blessing.
Many good points above from those sharing their ESH: meetings, literature, fellowship and sponsor are great sources for clarity, returning the focus to ourselves, and guiding us to more healthy decisions. When I am struggling, I ramp up meetings to hit every one I can accommodate, and my reading, beyond my daily readers I hit up the index in the back of Courage and ODAT to dive into particular topics I am wrestling with.
One topic that really helps me to review is 'Expectations', particularly in Courage, p. 153 is one of my favorites. I also found that trying to decipher reasons or motives behind my qualifier's actions was unsuccessful, frustrating, outside of my circle of what I can/should control, kept the focus and my thoughts on someone else. What was much more productive was simply determining what was acceptable or not, no matter the reason behind it.
In Step 1, I admitted I am powerless over alcohol, and my life had become unmanageable. It is a signal to me when I am feeling things are unmanageable that I am most likely trying to exert power, or control, someone/thing outside of my control. Rather than try to practice my program over the top of this (not really possible for me), I try to go back to Step 1 and identify what I'm trying to control that is causing the fear and anxiety, turn it over to my higher power. Then it is with a much more peaceful mind that I can return the focus to myself and the program, on what I can do, not what I wish/hope my qualifier will.
Hang in there, you will find your answers
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Paul
"...when we try to control others, we lose the ability to manage our own lives." - Paths to Recovery
Hi Sarah.
On one hand it's important to let go of trying to understand or analyse the actions of another person but on the other, when someone seems to be actively trying to derail us, it can be helpful to understand that it could well be about them and their own insecurities and is very possibly a sign that they feel dependent on you (and thus benefit from keeping you "off balance" or insecure). Sometimes a person is caught up in their own addiction and all of the pain and dysfunction that comes with it, and sometimes they are actively trying to manipulate others into thinking they are dependent on them for affection, and it's really unlikely that he treats you this way because he thinks you deserve it or he thinks lowly of you or any of that.
In my case it was really pretty clear that my partner was actively playing on my insecurities and abandonment issues to keep me around. He's even admits this freely, now (after several years of me working this program and learning to detach). When I understood this to be the case, detachment got a whole lot easier. Since you have expressed that you wonder if he is enjoying the power-trip etc, I wonder if it might be a similar scenario.
There are some good books on the topic that helped me to stop obsessing and move forward with my own path and growth.
Taking some time to do some reading and getting a grasp on the very likely notion that his actions aren't about you and probably don't even accurately reflect how he feels about you might be helpful if you are feeling stuck obsessing about what he says and does (and thinks). "Codependent No More" and "Getting them Sober" are 2 non-CAL books that really helped me to let go of obsessive thinking and start focusing on myself. Even the act of finding books on these topics and reading them I found to be empowering and a good way to look more objectively at the obsessive thoughts that were plaguing me.
Sarah - you are welcome.....my friend Paul reminded me of another great go-to tool! The daily readers all have an index in the back....when I am troubled with acceptance, patience, obsessing, etc. any program type topic or step, I can go to that index and read some daily reflections from others - their ESH about the topic. While it doesn't provide answers, it does always give me a brain break long enough to start considering my own scenario and what to do, if anything - prayer, response, etc.
I realize we each have different schedules and meetings aren't always as easy to find/get to - so the suggestion of YouTube Al-Anon speakers is also very helpful....You're doing well - keep coming back!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Enigmatic and MissM thank you both for replies, great suggestions and insights from both of you. I am doing ok considering it's a bank holiday weekend and I've had no car to help me run away. I've managed to do everything I needed to do and I let go of the obsession a bit yesterday through prayer and walking. I found saying the step 1, 2 and 3 prayers from the as big book really helpful. And a bit of escape into Netflix for a while was good too. I also reached out to my sponsor and asked if she fancied going to a meeting we wouldn't normally go to. So we are doing that tonight. I've just had a call from my friend who I mentioned in my first post and she is all over the place at the moment, said she called my partner(ex-partner?!) this morning to ask him to help her get a removal van. That has left me feeling uneasy, there has been so much hassle between me and him about her over the last couple of weeks and I've felt like piggy in the middle in it all and I don't know, it just brings up anxiety but I realise it's another thing I am powerless over and I really see how strong my instinct is, and has always been, to keep everything nice and make sure nobody gets hurt including me. What huge responsibility I took on, growing up in a dysfunctional chaotic home. I am learning so much about myself. Thank you, Iamhere for that message too.
You sound pretty self aware Sorcha. One other thing I'd like to suggest is journalling. It really was very confusing for me to have a partner with split personalities. Mr nice guy would say and do ABC, while mr nasty would do xva. Journalling helped me to see what was happening and what I was feeling. I also use assett and gratitude lists. Its hard to heal old hurts when a new irritant is rubbing the wound. I hope your meeting is uplifting tonight, take good care!
Love that you practiced action and self-care.....hope your meeting tonight is awesome! (((Hugs))) - one day a a time really helps me settle when there is unrest around me!!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
