The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I ask questions here because I feel many of you have good insight and experience on the alcoholic mindset. No advice needed.. just trying to understand...
I've stated before that ABF is in AA now for 6-7 months. But although he goes to meetings and loves what he is learning.. I am still dumbfounded how he can come home (once a week now) mildy buzzed and talk about how great meeting his meeting was and how much he is changing. I just kinda listen. There is no more judgment from me. But it is weird that he can drink and yet talk about how sober he has been since September. Can anyone shed some light on this?
P.S. I did ask something similar a week or so ago, but I mainly ranted about other garbage. So this one is simple. And no, I am not putting the focus on him and not me.. I just am curious
Is he skipping the meeting by any chance? He must act straight enough to participate in a meeting. I don't know any policy where they would ask someone to leave, unless they were really drunk and falling down or arguing with someone. Each group is different, some have a lot of member while others are very small. Maybe, his group it to large for anyone to notice.
Good for you for reaching out, we never have to do this alone (((hugs)))
I relate to your post and remember so well my confusion when his words and actions did not match up. It was very common for him to say one thing... and do another.
It sounds like he may still be in denial but at least hes attending meetings and learning even if he isnt putting it into practice, who really knows whats going on with another human being? How is your recovery coming along?
-- Edited by el-cee on Wednesday 29th of March 2017 06:05:20 AM
"I ask questions here because I feel many of you have good insight and experience on the alcoholic mindset. No advice needed.. just trying to understand... I've stated before that ABF is in AA now for 6-7 months. But although he goes to meetings and loves what he is learning.. I am still dumbfounded how he can come home (once a week now) mildy buzzed and talk about how great meeting his meeting was and how much he is changing. I just kinda listen. There is no more judgment from me. But it is weird that he can drink and yet talk about how sober he has been since September. Can anyone shed some light on this? P.S. I did ask something similar a week or so ago, but I mainly ranted about other garbage. So this one is simple. And no, I am not putting the focus on him and not me.. I just am curious"
I always find help with my thoughts when I am able to grab an extra meeting, an AlAnon book, or some prayer and meditation. Hang in there, keep working your program, and you will find your way
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Paul
"...when we try to control others, we lose the ability to manage our own lives." - Paths to Recovery
There's a reason that alcohol is deemed "cunning, baffling and powerful." It has the power to make someone believe that an untruth is true, justify almost any behavior, rationalize any action. What you describe is a good example of the disease at work.
The effects of alcohol can be so subtle that it leaves those of us dealing with the effects scratching our heads, leading to resentments, feeling irrational. The saving grace is our group here, our f2f and other groups, the literature, and slogans. I have learned so much from the wisdom of my fellow Al-Anoners who understand like no one else can. I benefit so much from our feloowship and the wisdom so freely shared every day. I thank you for reminding me of the sheer insanity alcohol can leave in its wake.
(((Aerin)))
-- Edited by Suburban Denizen on Wednesday 29th of March 2017 07:34:47 AM
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"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the little voice at the end of the day that says 'I'll try again tomorrow.'"
I have decided that I cannot understand an alcoholic's mindset. At least, not my wife's mindset. I just don't get it, and I am ok with that. One thing I notice is that spinning stories (or telling lies) was so natural to her when she was drinking, that she is still doing it sober. Only now, instead of spinning stories about how much she is not drinking, she is telling tales about what she does not eat (fast food), what she does not drink (pop), and her progress in recovery. The thing is, I don't think she knows that her stories are not actually the truth. (No, I didn't have dinner yet, I just grabbed a cheeseburger and tatter tots on my way home. No, I'm really not hungry.) Which brings me to perceptions. We all experience life in a slightly different way, and we think what we believe, or we believe what we want to think, or however that is best said. Anyway, I think that we can decide how we want to think or believe or feel about a situation. It is raining. That might be the worst thing ever, or really great, depending on how we feel about storms, rain, what we had planned, and how much water our garden needs. The rain isn't different, our perspective about rain is.
So, where I am going with this is that from where I am sitting, I can easily see that my wife is spinning tales, but from where she is sitting, she might really believe what she is saying. And, what she is saying might really feel like the truth to her, despite the fact that I am sitting over here thinking, "If you would just get a sponsor and work the steps, then you would actually be really "in recovery." She might really be benefiting from showing up, and she might really be helped by whatever it is she does with her program. And, I really am seeing changes in her behavior. So, maybe she's working her program at the speed that feels right to her, and where I have settled is that it isn't my job to tell her she ought to be moving faster. (But, believe me, I wish she was moving faster, lol!)
On the other hand, alcoholism is a sneaky disease, and denial might be in place. A friend of mine swears to his wife, child, and friends that he has been sober since whenever, despite also sending those people photos of his food with beer in the shot and clearly at his place-setting. Lots of denial there.
I guess my question for you would be: What are you going to do? Is ABF crossing one of your boundaries? How important is this to you? It sounds like you might have decided that you are just going to ignore it, and let him work it out himself. If that's the case, I'd just chalk it up to the mysterious workings of an addicted brain, and let it go at that.
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Skorpi
If you are depressed, you are living in the past. If you are anxious, you are living in the future. If you are at peace, you are living in the present. - Lao Tzu
This disease is just so baffling. My husband did the same thing when he started AA. It took a few months before he really got sober. He showed up at a few of the meetings completely loaded and once one of the members had to drive him home. I just can't understand the disease so I chose not to focus on it. I think it is a real positive that he is going to meetings and hopefully one day he will also walk to the walk. All the Best.
I have a loved one who is in AA. He's mentioned from time to time that a person without identifying who showed up smelling like alcohol. Hopefully, this isn't prevalent but it happens. Only the person themself can know why they do the things they do. I do understand you're curiosity and that you care about him, I really do. It can be tough sometimes to sit in powerlessness concerning another person's drinking.
Even if recovering alcoholics respond to this question, who can really speak for ALL alcoholics? I'm not of the belief that there's a particular "mindset" that dictates the actions of alcoholics. In my humble opinion, all of us in any program of recovery can be said to be in varying stages of honesty about ourselves and our recovery. When I feel myself crossing to the other side of the street, I've found the Serenity Prayer to be helpful for guiding me back to focusing on myself. ((hugs))) TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
I can share the mindset of the A, only because I've experienced this in others for years (as a double-winner). The disease is cunning, baffling and powerful - we all hear this and we all read this. For an A, driven by denial and the disease, it's the most frightening thing in the world to think that we can NEVER DRINK again. Many who come to AA are hung up on 'this' as most have rarely, if for a long time, gone a day without a drink or another mind-altering substance.
If you consider the program principles for a moment, either side (AA or Al-Anon), the requirements for membership are simple. For AA, the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. Notice - desire ... stop ... drinking. Nobody will ever be turned away for relapsing or appearing under the influence at any time for any reason.
Both programs consider progress as the key goal, not perfection. For anybody who has battled this disease, going one day without a drink or substance is truly a miracle. Going from daily drinking to one day per week/month/year/??? is also a miracle and certainly aligns with progress. In the case you describe above Aerin, to the AA community, he is a miracle and a success and that's a fair/true statement based on what our program(s) ask of us.
I have spent a huge part of my life thinking/processing/living in black and white. One is either sober or not. One is either in recovery or not. One is either honest or not. I could add 100 more here as to how my brain processed. I have two sons who went from experimenting with pot to shooting heroin in a very short amount of time. Both have OD'd and both have been to countless treatment centers, counselors, meetings, etc. I was frozen daily in fear for their safety and more importantly their lives. We all see the epidemic around us and the odds are not good at all...
What Al-Anon has given me is the gift of progress, not perfection. Currently, one is smoking pot and drinking and the other is only drinking. I can sit here and be upset that all the effort of treatment, meeting, counselors, etc. have not worked and they're not sober or I can be grateful that they have set aside the H just for today and are reasonably productive. For me, my sponsor asked me straight up - who are you to assume pot is bad compared to what he was doing before? Who are you to assume/know that alcohol is bad compared to what he was doing before?
My sponsor helped me focus on what was better now than then. She also helped me stop focusing on what they were doing and focus on why I was so obsessed with it. Lastly, she helped me see that serenity comes with total acceptance and unconditional love. If I want peace in my mind/heart, I really need to trust my HP, and love those in my life exactly as they are - imperfect persons doing their best today with what they have. I also have to accept 'me' as I am - a work in progress trying to be/do/act differently with grace and dignity always.
So - he is making progress. He is doing better than before. He is a walking miracle if he's able to set aside the alcohol for a while. We often say in AA that the program will wreck your drinking completely - takes away the fun because one now knows what's at stake to continue....possible death, institution, etc. I am grateful that each time I've considered drinking/drugging, I've done what's suggested - called another before taking the first drink or go to a meeting. I am in the minority though and am truly grateful.
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
For a while a few years ago, it was pretty clear that my wife was stopping at the liquor store for a bottle of vodka on her way home from AA meetings. it flabbergasted me that she could do this. Then I had more Al Anon, and discovered the real [power of alcohol to change one's perception of reality (aka denial) in her and in me. I wasn't much better with other things I was in deanial from.
So I loved her the best I could, until she finally hit another bottom to get into some real recovery. And I have been in recovery as well, trying to shed my own denial.
