Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Anon111 · Member

Deciding whether to stay in a relationship or not

Jaeger · Member

Hi Anon! Al-Anon tells us to hold off on any major life changes for awhile. BUT it also speaks of abuse in the book How Al-Anon Works. Verbal, emotional, physical abuse is all just that.....abuse. Only you can decide when it is enough to leave. In my experience, my AH was not physically abusive either but he was a very angry, mean alcoholic. This resulted in verbal abuse. Although my husband is now sober, I still struggle every day with the guilt of raising my children in that kind of home. Sunday's Courage to Change daily reading really hit home to me. It's still a work in progress for myself to forgive myself and I hope my kids can forgive me also.

Skorpi · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Anon111.

The story of my beginning in Alanon is similar to yours, minus young children and plus dogs.

My wife wanted me to help her, but help equaled enabling her behavior and giving up on myself, my hopes and my dreams. She readily admitted that she was an alcoholic, but was convinced that she would never be sober and that she would be able to use moderation management to cut back and still drink. (In my experience, though, moderation management suggests no more than 9 drinks a week, not 9 drinks a morning...) There was one night when I really was afraid that she would hurt one of our dogs, and I locked myself and that dog in the basement bathroom all night. That was my rock bottom with the disease. I didn't know what to do, I knew I couldn't hold it together anymore, and I knew I couldn't continue to live like I was. I posted here and dragged myself to a face to face meeting. I was shocked when I heard that as long as I am not in danger of harm, it was suggested that I come to as many meetings as possible and not make a decision about staying or going until I was ready. (The time frame suggested to me was 6 months to one year. Of course, if domestic violence is an issue, if you or your children are in danger, it is important to do what you need to do in order to be safe.) Someone in one of my face to face meetings said also that not making a decision about leaving right now is also a decision, and it is a decision I can make. These things helped me take the pressure off myself and work my program for me.

The fast version of the last 2 years is that we did separate for a while, she did go to jail for a while, we lived in different counties for a while, and we tried reconciling as she worked her program and I worked mine. The space and distance was very healthy for us. It helped us to break out of the co-dependent pattern and establish a new normal. We are still together right now, but our time apart and my willingness to leave, to let her work out her recovery on her own, were all instrumental in getting to where we are today. I wonder sometimes if I will ever get to the point of not being ready to leave her, and I think probably not. Knowing that I can and will leave if she starts drinking again is good for me and my recovery. Knowing that I am not going to "save her" has been good for hers.

I am certain that you will know what to do when the time is right. Maybe it will be helpful to remember that deciding not to make a decision yet is also a decision. Maybe it is useful to think of your choice as: am I going to stay today, am I going to leave today, or am I going to decide not to decide yet today? I ask myself that question every day, and I let myself answer that question for the day. Focusing my attention on today helps me to stay in the moment and dealing with what is happening now. It also takes the pressure off until I am ready to make a decision.

Keep coming back. This group was a life-saver for me, and I am confident that it can help you too.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Skorpi's share speaks volumes. I came to recovery wanted to fix, change, cure and help my qualifiers. I just wanted the insanity to stop, and truly thought that would happen if the substances were removed. I was in denial about the affects of the disease on me, my thoughts, my reactions, emotions, etc. I was also torn between staying/leaving and decided that I was worth enough to try to work the program and gain as much sanity I could find before making any knee/jerk decisions.

Things are far from perfect in my life, but they are much improved. The disease is far-reaching and the affects are often 'acceptable' to us until they are no longer. More has been revealed for me as I've leaned into recovery and I've found 'my place' for now - have joy and serenity and did not leave my marriage.

The beauty of recovery is the personal journey portion. Staying/leaving is a unique decision that we each are allowed the dignity, time and ability to decide as we need/want to. I do agree - if there is any concern/events that include abuse, it is wise to research all assistance for your area and protect yourself and your children. Nobody in recovery would ever suggest one stay if it's an abusive environment.

Keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery and you are not alone.

2accept · Member

Welcome Anon111. You are amongst fellow hikers on this journey called Alanon recovery. In Alanon, we don't give advice whether to stay or go in reference to our relationships. However, we do share our experience, strength, and hope with each other on how we were able to gain detachment and peace whether the alcoholic is still drunk or sober. For a "real" alcoholic, there is no "cutting down" or "tapering off" from alcohol... complete abstinence is where sobriety is found. Without AA and complete abstinence from alcohol with the help of an AA sponsor and the 12Steps of AA, most alcoholics can't stay "dry" very long. We are not to blame for the alcoholic's insane behaviors. We do get "falsely" blamed or accused because the drunk doesn't want to take responsibility for their own behaviors. In their sick minds, they make us the problem, that way they never have to change. Too bad for them... they become a victim of their own disease. No human being or human power can rescue or relieve the alcoholic from their alcoholic disease of insanity... only a spiritual intervention seems to work. It's not our job to play god, therapist, sponsor, or rescuer in their life. It is our job to learn how to take care of ourselves and protect our little ones from harm's way. That's where the Alanon program comes in to rescue us from our old behaviors, our old thinking, and our old emotions that seem to destroy us and keep us in the victim role. Getting to face to face Alanon meetings as often as possible is a life preserver when you're drowning. Go to as many meetings as your alcoholic is drunk. For me, that was at least once a day, sometimes as many as 10 per week. I was like a "sprayed roach" when I first arrived at the doorstep of Alanon. The Alanon's warmly welcomed me in and gave me immediate "cpr" -(Caring, Promise, Recovery) for a better life. Remember, you are loved here. We never shoot our dying. Bring the little ones, in toe; most meetings are "little people" friendly or they have daycare for the hour or so. Each meeting is different and a great place to find a female to sponsor you. A sponsor will field your calls, texts, emails, arrange one on one get-togethers over coffee, lunch, etc., to discuss your issues, wipe away your tears, crank you through the 12 Steps, and hold you accountable for progress on this journey to a better way of life. Do you want to be bitter or better? We always have a choice, though it doesn't always feel that way. Let us, in the Alanon program, love you until you can learn to love yourself. Warm thoughts and prayers to you and your family. P.S. - Online meetings are great, but harder to find a sponsor.

Anon111 · Member

Thanks all - it's really useful to hear your stories and words of support. It is nice to find people who understand it so well because family and friends are very supportive but I think it's hard for them to imagine why I would want to stay with him. Jaeger - I too have that guilt of allowing my kids to live in a house like this but for the most part he hides it from them - even so I really worry about the impact as I am clearly stressed and there is a tension that they must surely pick up on.

A lot of the face to face meetings are at difficult times for me but I will try my best to get to one - I went to one that wasn't very good but there are others I could try. My worry is that 6 months is a long time to wait to decide - I worry that in another 6 months, the situation will have taken its toll on me and I want to remain strong, especially for my children. It's such a tough decision but I do like the advice of not rushing into the decision and also that deciding not to decide today is also a conscious decision. Thanks again.

Curlyblu · Senior Member

((Welcome)) your story has touched me and I can totally relate. This group has many amazing shares. Just being here for me, has been a start. The road has been rough, each I'm trying. One day at a time.

Jazzie18 · Senior Member

Welcome Anon

My husband also hid it from the kids but the tension in our household was so great that they picked up on it anyways. My then three year old wouldn't talk to or go to my husband, he could just sense that something was wrong. It wasn't until my husband stopped drinking that he saw a huge difference in my son who started to want to hang out with his dad. I understand how stressful this is on you as a wife and mother. Face-to-face meetings were a life saver to me when I had reached my bottom. If you can't get to a meeting there are plenty of videos on youtube and there are podcasts that you can listen to...my favorite is www.therecoveryshow.com which has a number of different podcasts on different topics.

I was at the point of leaving a few years ago. My husband knew how serious I was and finally sought help. You leaving may be the catalyst for him to reach his bottom and to finally get the help he needs.

Many prayer to you Anon.

a4l · ~*Service Worker*~

I can readily identify with parts of your post. Being told you're an awful wife and mother is emotional abuse. It has a terrible effect on ones sense of self worth and confidence. I would like to suggest you make an assetts list to counter this. I personally write down everything i do when i can, journalling is now part of my self care. The journal is well hidden. If someone tells you something long enough you start to believe it. Not just verbally either, the very experience of living with alcoholism is crazy making. It tries to convince you the grass is blue and the sky is green. Keep seeking out alanon for yourself, sanity is possible. Take care.

BellZ · Newbie

recovered addict for one 3 years and counting. My SO was as well except since quitting our drug of choice hes picked up xanax and alcohol THE WHOLE 3 YEARS. we have a toddler daughter as well. Long story short about 7-8 months ago i left him for violence infront of my daughter while under the influence and moved in with my mother. Who had bought me a house in NC originally for my family until he went off the deep end. Long story short i got a restraining order and when it was time for the court date i cancelled it because i fell for the abusers famous line. i told him to get help go to counceling for abusers and ive been gone since october. My happily ever after or so i thought. ive never once denied them a phone conversation or video chat but 98% of them are her screaming in between his nod outs or her just leaving him on the phone while she plays. Hes gotten crazy again threatening to get her taken away from me. threatening to kill me and my mother as well as kidnap my daughter.

That being said i feel like our "guilt" of leaving them is enablement. He couldnt live without me. What about my child without a father? how could i do this to him and not fight for him?

Answer is thats not our job. i should know better than anyone he has to love him self and get clean for HIMSELF before hell ever be able to be honesly a good man to me or my child "everything you put infront of your recovery you WILL lose " including kids wife ect i honestlyl think a year of sobriety ALL ALONE is the only way to make it now i see why all those silly rules are in place in AA im hurting more than im helping or else im carrying his baggage he doesnt get to feel pain or repercussions because i absorb all that by lying to his family and mine making them think everything is peachy thats enablement. helping him take care of responsabilities and whatever else

i can dish it but cant take it. God has now made the decision for me .. time to let him go a big fear was " in a year what if ive moved on?" then that is whats meant to be!

thanks for sharing and letting me vent

Jazzie18 · Senior Member

Bellz, a lot of strength in your story. Prayers to you and your family.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

Hugs Anon,

I had to leave for the sake of my children and my sanity. It's ironic because I didn't leave because of the drinking .. I left because of the affair/s. It was devastating on many levels.

One of my biggest fears in leaving was this .. what if there was something seriously wrong with me that I was not loveable and I was really the one who was broken. That sounds insane now however at the time it was really very real .. what if he got sober for someone else and got his life all together and there I was picking up the pieces of my own broken life. Again the irony was not lost on me that my biggest fear was he would leave me for someone else (this is an issue that has played out in my childhood and so on), .. well my biggest fear happened he left for someone else supposedly and guess what .. it didn't workout .. his life didn't get better right away .. I think he's doing better unfortunately he's still a jackass .. sometimes you take the alcohol out of a drunk a$$ and guess what .. they are still an a$$ through and though.

So honestly I guess nothing has really changed, well that's not true .. I have changed and I have healed on levels I would not have realized if these events had not played out the way they had .. I went through a time I thought I wanted him back and I realized something along the way .. I didn't really love him as I really didn't love myself. So he only got a small part of me if anything at all because I had no concept of what love truly is .. love doesn't hurt, love doesn't lie, love doesn't feel bad .. healthy love is always good. Me believing I wasn't good enough, me believing I could beat the bottle, me believing I could save him at the expense of myself and my kids .. that's not good.

My kids are 12 and 17 when I started my journey they were 6 and 11. He missed out .. I did not.

There is no one answer fits all solution .. my situation was starting to degenerate at a rapid pace .. I had to take out a TRO after I left and I really saw how little I actually loved him or was capable of loving him .. I don't know what would have happened had I had more Alanon behind me .. I can tell you for me and the situation I was in leaving for me was the right answer .. that was not a decision for anyone except me to make. Stay or go .. both are incredibly hard situations at times both have their own positive and negative consequences .. and sometimes time has to take time.

Keep coming back .. hugs S :)

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

BellZ - Just wanted to send a warm welcome to you - glad you found us here at MIP and glad that you shared! Keep coming back!

Bettertomorrow · Senior Member

Hi Anon,

You are not alone. I too am very new and recently joined the wonderful Al anon family. I too have a similar question to you - stay or go and others here have given some great advice which I will also apply to my own situation.

What has helped for me is putting boundaries in place. At first I said he couldn't be drunk in front of the children and set-up a room for him downstairs. But then I realised that I was still enabling him and saying it is OK to be drunk so long as he was in that room, which the children were fully aware of. It was a bit like having the proverbial dead body under the patio - we tried to pretend he wasn't in there drunk, when we all knew that he was. Recently I have strengthened the boundary to be that he is not to be drunk in the house / in front of the children. He asked me where he should go - I said that was up to him (kindly). I also put some emergency plans in place - a safe place for me and the 4 children to go to if we needed it.

I also thought about where the line would be drawn in hypothetical situations where he / I would have to go. For example hitting me or the children would be a definite leave but working at trying to say sober was a stay (still with the boundaries in place). I appreciate there are grey areas in between, but it helped me. I also found in the few short weeks I have been attending Al Anon and therefore looking after myself, I can feel parts of me becoming more compassionately assertive about what is and isn't OK. We also looked at a flat for him to give some physical detachment - not a divorce, just so that we each had a 'space' to recover while also building some good memories when he is sober. At the moment money seems too tight to do that - but it is a possibility in the wings so to speak and knowing that there are options helps me cope.

Finally, as we are no longer sharing a bedroom, I have turned my bedroom into my own private sanctuary complete with a very cheap indoor fountain and other calming objects. It helps me to know that there is a place in the house I have claimed as mine alone where I can still detach physically when I need to.

Lots of hugs and thoughts coming your way. Better today (my new name!)

shrnp · Senior Member

Hello Anon,
Welcome to the forum. I did not have any children with my ex-A, but dealing with his aggressive behavior effected my moods and relationship with my adult son. It did not matter if he was violent or not. They want to say the most horrible things to you because they dislike themselves. Then they go off and get drunk as if it never happened. I am an adult child of an alcoholic, and I grew up around an angry drunk man. I have wondered if I was so use to the emotional abuse as a child that I felt I was not good enough for a normal relationship. I am saying this because your kids maybe little but they pick up on a lot, and you should not feel bad or conflicted about wanting a life for yourself and your children free of alcoholism. I have often heard it that you grow up and become involved with people like your parents, and I did. Sometimes that is a good thing but for me and many like us it can be very bad. I am glad you found us, and keep coming back.

-- Edited by shrnp on Thursday 2nd of March 2017 09:47:44 AM

-- Edited by shrnp on Thursday 2nd of March 2017 09:48:52 AM

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene