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Hi I'm new here. Hoping someone may have some words of wisdom for me. I'm late 30's, married 13 years, with three young children. The marriage has been tough the last couple years for various reasons. My wife has mentioned a couple times that she thinks she may be an alcoholic. I didn't take her seriously. I mean I knew she has been drinking more than is healthy but she knew that and was saying it without any pressure from me or anyone else.
There's none of the crazy s*** like I see with other alcoholics. I work in healthcare so I only see the bad cases. She only drank in the evening and only got drunk rarely although that was increasing over the last year I guess. But no drained bank accounts. No hidden bottles. The kids aren't neglected.
A few days ago she tells me she went to her first AA meeting and that she is, in no uncertain terms, an alcoholic. I was stunned. Partly by the reveal of the alcoholism and also that she would ever go to a group like this. She is very private and a hardcore atheist. Half of me was proud that she was able to take this step.
The other half is the problem. I am now furious. I've always had a slight temper but that's always just a quick flash and gone. I woke up this morning and was almost livid. Over the last couple weeks I noticed a shift in our relationship. She had mentioned that an old friend reconnected with her through social media. This is a man, she gave the impression he was an ExBF. Not that big of a deal but the way she told me raised an internal alarm. Over the next couple weeks when I come in a room she's on her tablet, I'm not snooping but a screen catches the eye, and she's frantically closing down the window she's in. I noticed its a messenger app. So that makes me feel even weirder and kinda s***ty TBH.
So I'm losing sleep over all of this and not sure what to do when she lays this AA thing out. Without giving up much info she said this guy had reached out to her. Maybe doing his 12 steps and making amends? Something like that. And it sounds like they've been talking and he's helping her somehow? Since then I've been growing more and more angry. Driving the kids to school this morning I actually made myself sick.
I'm not perfect by any stretch. The problems in our relationship are definitely from both of us. But I'm the one that's been here. Through the good and bad with all my strengths and weaknesses and stupid annoying imperfections. In spite of being basically ignored for what feels like years. In spite of her BS secrets, accusations and ridicule I've stuck it out and tried to make it work. And now this POS gets deep personal conversations late at night? He gets attention and I can't even get a kind word or simple friendly touch.
I guess I'm what? An idiot? Pushover?
-- Edited by hotrod on Monday 6th of February 2017 09:27:18 PM
Welcome WestMan You are not alone and there is hope. Living with the disease of alcoholism, many family develop negative coping tools in order to interact with the insanity of the disease. Alanon is a recovery program established to help people who live with or have lived with the disease. Here, I broke ths isolation caused by living with the disease found a supportive group who truly understood and was given several new constructive tools to live by. Face to face meetings are held on most communities ans the hot line number is in the white pages. Please keep coming back
Went to the Newcomers orientation last night. Wife didn't seem pleased. I can see where it can be helpful. Still upset though. So tired but can't sleep. I couldn't talk to her before without her blowing up. Now I can't talk to her because she'll blow up AND drink.
Hi West Man I am so pleased that you choose to attend a meeting and found it helpful. I know many partners are not pleased when we find help for ourselves and that is why alanon stresses the importance of" Keeping coming back"
I know that when I found alanon, I was so anxious to recover that I wanted instant change or to wave a magical wand and make it right . I was told that recovery is a process and that we aim for progress not perfection as we walk through each day.
We have two extremely important posts at the top of this page. One contains " "The promises of alanon"( which do come true if we keep coming back) and the other contains our slogans in a poem
They are extremely helpful and inspiring . here are the links :
Please do Keep coming back Try to pick up some literature at your next meeting and remember to keep the focus on yourself and that we are powerless over others.
I found reciting the serenity prayer over and over helped me to sleep
There's this thing I used to hear a lot.."No-one can make you feel anything, except for you". It never meant a lot to me before and now it's sort of my credo. See I've come to understand that people have all kinds of motivations and beliefs and needs and thoughts that I'll never know or understand. Even the people I am closest to. I could drive myself demented trying to analyse them and being what I am (a codependent person by default), I'll try to whittle it down to a neatly condensed story where a)everything other people do is because they want it to have a specific effect on me, and b) as a result, there is always an action I can do to change these feelings for them so that they feel the way that I think they could and should feel, which on my more benevolent days is 'happy" and on my less magnanimous days is "sorry" or ""she told me so" or...well you get the idea.
Thing is, I just don't have that kind of influence over what other people think, feel, desire, or do. Even when people react to my actions/reactions, it's their own agenda working and I cannot, really, ever hope to understand it. I can't make someone want to drink, for example. Or get angry. Or be nice. I can show that I am receptive to a certain kind of behaviour and then if that person wants to behave that way then, game on. Or I can be very clear about what kinds of behavior I am receptive to. Maybe they'll go somewhere else to get the reaction they are looking for. That's their right, I guess, and the price of serenity (for me). If I am important to them then it won't matter that I am no longer supplying their reaction; we'll find out equilibrium again. It's not a reason to panic.
All of that to say, you can't make your wife blow up unless she wants to blow up. You can't make her want to drink either. And she can't make you feel sleepless or insecure or any of it. She's going through some stuff, seems like, and she's shut you out. That hurts. It doesn't matter how hard you try to understand or tinker with it, you won't ever see or understand exactly what she is feeling or why. What you CAN do is get yourself as strong and healthy and grounded as you possibly can, and then with clearer, calmer eyes and ears, decide on a course of action. And, as a really cool side-benefit, when we stop trying really hard to understand and interpret other people's feelings and behaviour, they tend to get a little miffed that we are no longer turning ourselves inside out trying to understand them and once they've exhausted their repertoire of "hooks' they seem to have a habit of learning to state their intentions and desires a lot more clearly and carefully. And that makes life a hell of a lot easier.
Take care of you. It's literally the only really helpful thing that you can do, and you deserve it. And yay that you went to a meeting
-- Edited by MissM on Tuesday 7th of February 2017 11:07:22 AM
-- Edited by MissM on Tuesday 7th of February 2017 09:38:28 PM
Welcome, West Man. I felt very similar around my late alcoholic husband. I was often sleepless, like you are now. I was very angry, and I think anger is understandable when we feel betrayed. The question for me was, what to do with my anger so it would not be destructive.
After spending some time in the Alanon program, I realized I could turn that anger into energy for my own recovery. I turned it into a profound realization that I deserved focusing on myself and I became very determined to do whatever it took to heal myself. I realized that I was not an idiot, that I was among millions who have been affected by someone else's drinking, that some of those millions had found a new way to deal with their situation and that I could too. One day at a time. Our slogans may sound overly simple at first, but I found that they really do work.
-- Edited by Freetime on Tuesday 7th of February 2017 11:10:35 AM
Welcome to MIP Westman - glad you found us and glad that you shared. I am a double winner - AA (recovery for 29+ years) and Al-Anon (AH and 2 AS).
AH = Alcoholic Husband, AS = Alcoholic Sons.
As you can imagine, over the years, I've had many, many opportunities to better understand the disease and how it works. All that I really, really know is that it's progressive and impacts many of us - on both sides of the fence.
I am an Irish Catholic and anger was always my go-to emotion. When I was frightened, it manifested outward as anger. When I was sad, same thing. What I actually discovered in working Al-Anon is my anger was a defense mechanism I used often/always to deflect seeing the reality of my own life/emotions.
The disease is consider a family disease and seems to be super cunning, baffling and powerful. I applaud your wife for going to an AA meeting as it's very difficult to wake up, realize one has an issue and seek help for it. I applaud you too for going to a meeting. You both are embarking on a new journey, and I believe it's very 'normal' to be unsure of what's real and what's next.
My best suggestion is to just stay present. That was so very helpful for me in the beginning as my mind wondered to the past rehashing things or to the future - projecting things. Both were not productive and really not relevant to the here and now. Keep focusing on you and on your recovery. Keep things as simple as you can and seek to understand...
Please keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I appreciate all the replies. Truly. I know I can't control other's feelings, drinking and actions. I understand that I can't really understand what she's experiencing and shouldn't try to get in her head.
What is infuriating is we've been sacrificing and struggling for a long time. I've (stupidly I now think) jumped through all kinds of hoops to try to make this work. I've severed ties with female friends because my AW felt threatened and flipped out over it. Now, here's my AW. Who is also struggling in the relationship, probably feels trapped (I make all the money) and has been using alcohol to cope. This is a person who, I think, is quite vulnerable in many ways.
Now this guy appears and suddenly she's open to him in a way she may never have been with me. How nice for him <---sarcasm. How nice to have been able to destroy your life and relationship and then show back up 15 years later, talk a bunch of this AA stuff, and instantly gain access. Isn't part of the 12 steps that you don't cause injury? Because it is. He might think he's helping but he's hurting in another way. Just because an alcoholic is gonna do what they're gonna do doesn't mean you roll over and never stick up for what you need.
-- Edited by WestMan on Tuesday 7th of February 2017 01:55:08 PM
Welcome to MIP. Hope you find something that helps you by reading shares here and maybe choose to find an in person Alanon meeting. My personal experience has been that working the 12 steps of the Alanon program really helped me to sort out issues related my husband's substance abuse and frankly issues in our marriage that were there irrespective of the drinking and drugging. Meeting members, a sponsor and a higher power helped me to sort through the emotional baggage I was carrying. Anger is one of our topics in this program. My own experience with it is that outbursts come from stuffing my feelings and denying and rationalizing until I'm carrying a storehouse of resentments toward a person, place or thing in my life. Thankfully, Alanon meetings, Alanon sponsors and a god of my own understanding can be safe places for release of such feelings.
There really is no way to know what your wife's actions mean unless you directly ask. Even with that there are no guarantees. I'm neither recommending nor dissuading you from that course of action. No one knows the inner workings of a marriage better than the two people who are in it. You'll take the course of action that is right for you.
In Alanon we don't really deem any emotion as either "good" or "bad." For instance, feeling of anger can be justified. Ultimately, what we do such feelings is where the Alanon program can be instrumental to our feelings of emotional and physical well being. It does mean focusing on ourselves and inventorying our personal behaviors. It doesn't excuse the inappropriate behaviors of other people such as drinking partners but rather gives Alanon members constructive tools based on self care for responding to such behavior.
I hope at least some of what has been shared by myself and others is validation of your right to your feelings and comfort in knowing that the Alanon program is there to help you with any internal turmoil you may be currently experiencing. We learn new ways - we learn to respond vs react in emotionally charged circumstances. Keep coming back, it works! TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
That anger sounds familiar! I kind of did the same thing when my husband stopped drinking. While he was still drinking I was too busy reacting to crisis after crisis so perhaps for me it was simply the calmer atmosphere that created space for the anger to come to the surface. One thing that I did learn from it was that some of that anger was directed at myself - I was angry with myself for not taking better care of myself. I was too busy getting my fixes from trying to save my home and my marriage to properly look after my own needs.
I don't have to react to all my feelings, but it was good to note them and listen to them and think about what my own needs are. I'm learning to take ownership of my needs so that I can express myself more clearly to others.
I'm really impressed by your reaching out and going to meetings. Am I right in thinking that your post implies that you don't think that your wife shares as much with you as you would like?
In my situation I thought that my husband was sharing everything that I would have liked our relationship to be with another person but in reality he simply wasn't very good at being emotionally connected with anyone - and neither was I. It is one of the skills that I'm trying to learn to do a bit better these days!
That anger sounds familiar! I kind of did the same thing when my husband stopped drinking. While he was still drinking I was too busy reacting to crisis after crisis so perhaps for me it was simply the calmer atmosphere that created space for the anger to come to the surface. One thing that I did learn from it was that some of that anger was directed at myself - I was angry with myself for not taking better care of myself. I was too busy getting my fixes from trying to save my home and my marriage to properly look after my own needs.
I don't have to react to all my feelings, but it was good to note them and listen to them and think about what my own needs are. I'm learning to take ownership of my needs so that I can express myself more clearly to others.
I'm really impressed by your reaching out and going to meetings. Am I right in thinking that your post implies that you don't think that your wife shares as much with you as you would like?
In my situation I thought that my husband was sharing everything that I would have liked our relationship to be with another person but in reality he simply wasn't very good at being emotionally connected with anyone - and neither was I. It is one of the skills that I'm trying to learn to do a bit better these days!
You are correct that what I'm mainly having a problem with is that she doesn't share much with me but is apparently sharing with her Ex. If it's who I think she has only talked about him a couple times and the little I know he was somewhat abusive. She has had a huge hangup about cheating for as long as I can recall and has leveled accusations a number of times over the years. Yet now it's ok for her to be in extended convos with this other man throughout the day and if I happen to walk in the same room for my own business I have to watch this ridiculous mad scramble to close windows. FFS if you want to have a private conversation then maybe have it in private.
Her MO is to be very guarded and private. To her credit she did share a bit. Like that she was in contact with this guy. While vague she did say he was sort of helping her and told me about the alcoholism and AA. I know this was a huge monumental thing for her to share with me so she gets credit there. But all that aside she barely tells me squat about anything of substance that's going on with her. On top of that she's very emotionally cold and distant but pretty much only towards me.
I have certainly let her down in the past. But I'm a pretty easy person to talk to and would love to be there for her in some way.
Definitely angry with myself. Knowing that just makes it worse. I'm mad that I've put aside so much of myself to try to keep her happy. Mad that I don't speak up for myself more. Mad that when I have spoken and the inevitable meltdown ensued that I apologized like a sap. Mad that I've learned from her to not apologize when I'm wrong because it's not accepted or reciprocated. Mad that I start these posts with a succinct message that turns into a hot mess. Ugh!
Ok I'm against the norm I think .. I think it's perfectly healthy reaction that you are having .. I'm very glad you are reaching out to talk to others in Alanon. Something I heard around the tables was my spouse got sober and I got crazy .. Crazy equals angry .. Acting out and so on. This is crazy making x100000. I would not like it if my xah decided to get sober and was talking to an ex because in his case he was cheating .. AND no sobriety. Something that did help me and he actually said to me was because of the history between him and I there were situations of disappointment duis and so on .. He was looking for his feel goods where he could get them. He couldn't get them from me. I created guilt .. Just because of the history. Something I do look at in my current relationship is do I want to be right or do I want to be happy. It is soooo easy to fight to be right. I hear you are confused and angry. I think what I'm trying to say is you are in the right place to work through all of those emotions regardless of the outcome of your relationship. I get what my x was looking for because I wanted it too. In my case it wasn't with him because I honestly needed to be right. I have to fight the urge even now .. In my current relationship I think about how do I want to be treated and am I treating my bf in that way. It has been a learning curve and without the safety of Alanon I don't think I could have expressed myself as I needed to. Hugs .. Just keep coming back it Will become clearer for you.
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Hang in there Westman.....it's so difficult when recovery starts - for both sides. One thing I learned in Al-Anon is to say what I mean, mean what I say and not say it mean. In your last post, the very end of it sounds loving to me - suggesting to her that you are here for her if she wants/needs to talk and you want to support her, but just aren't sure what that looks like. This gives her the knowledge that you do care, you want to support her and are willing to listen. It took me a while to get here, as I was still so angry about so many things (at myself and them) that I would want to JADE (Justify, Argue, Define or Explain). My sponsor had to help me process the anger, realize that much of it was fear and to practice just listening without judgement....it was a slow process as listening was a defect for me, big time!
Good for you that you're still processing and wanting to support!!! One Day at a Time is how we roll. (((Hugs)))
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Better to have the hot mess here on the board Westman!!
I agree with Iamhere - despite your anger your post does sound loving to me as well.
I too tried to do my best with my husband but my anger at the way his ex turned up got in the way of my being able to say some of the nice things that you and Iamhere have suggested (and to be fair, my husband's shame and self loathing made it difficult for him to hear anything nice as well).
We don't know everything and there is a loving saying on these boards along the lines of 'I didn't know that I didn't know'.
When I came to see how I had been treating myself the first person that I needed to forgive, absolutely top of the list, was me.
Like you I was mad at myself for most of the same things that you've expressed here! Plus I carried my own small slice of guilt which had me keeping my defences up as well.
So I forgave myself by visualising a younger more optimistic me and I promised that little girl that I would take much better care of her in the future. She had been doing her best, but she didn't need to fend for herself alone any more. I know that she was just scared and simply had never learnt how to express fear or even anger without unleashing tears and looking like a cross between a raging monster and, at times, a damp doormat.
I started small - for example I practised keeping my mouth shut when I would normally blurt our sorry unnecessarily (which I had done just to keep the peace I guess, but that little girl in me probably died a little every time I betrayed her). I gifted time to myself every day to dedicate to pastimes that I enjoyed and that I had missed out on over the years. Now I'm trying to learn how to say how I feel without using the word 'you' in my sentence - oh boy, that is a tough and difficult lesson for me when I'm upset!!
Getting better gets to be good fun and it feels really empowering and liberating to me, and at the end of the day if I'm happy then I'm a much nicer person to be around as well!! Be gentle with yourself!
I do love her which doesn't feel very good because as best I can tell she doesn't feel the same. I feel a little better today but just a little. Still getting kinda sick at times.
I went to the newbie orientation on Monday. Wasn't able to stay for the real meeting. But the Chair person did give me her number and I called her yesterday and was able to vent some of this negativity. I got home and got kids ready for bed so my AW could get to her meeting. I wanted to talk to her a little about all this without trying to pry into her.
So I just asked her if the meeting was good. Does it feel weird? It's unfathomable to me that she is able to go. She is normally very shy even in normal social situations. Has a tough time making friends. And even being married she has a very difficult time opening up about anything personal. Anyway after I asked her how it was and what it felt like for her she said it was really nice. That she feels very relaxed there.
This is obviously good for her. Hearing that really stung though. Because obviously she doesn't feel that way about me. I was still upset so I changed the subject to more superficial topics. I really need to say something about these conversations she's having with this guy. I don't think it's appropriate. But I know when I bring it up all the other junk I'm upset about is right behind it waiting to come out.
Sorry for multiple long winded posts. But her starting AA has been like a wind that's blown away my denial. A new light is being cast on all these F'd up dynamics in our relationship. I'm continuously saying to myself
"Ooohh. That's what that was." Which is immediately followed by "How did I not see that? Why did I go along with that? Why am I still going along with that?"
West Man I assure you that you are not alone. When I experienced the removal my denial and began to see life on life's terms. I was astonished that I had been able to fool myself for so long.
My sponsor explained to me that because of daily facing the insanity of the disease many of us develop the tools of denial and pretend,in order to cope with the daily assaults of the disease. Using the steps, meetings and the slogans. I was able to abandon my destructive tools of denial and pretend and slowly begin to use acceptance and facing life on life's terms. The program works and so please do keep coming back.
Thank you Ms. Hotrod. I think I have my work cut out for me in figuring out which of our problems are related to her drinking and which are not. I've obviously been much better at denial than I realized.
We did finally have a good discussion last night about some of this. I told her how bad it felt when I come in a room and she's hurrying to hide her screen. I also told her why I thought aspects of this renewed relationship with this guy was inappropriate without trying to pry or shut it down. Afterwards I do believe this friendship has been helpful to her, he convinced her to go to her first meeting. But, I think she is downplaying how personal their relationship is. I said mostly what I needed to say and have to live with it for now.
I'm also realizing that much of this anger comes from fear. We've been at odds for sometime and have been unable to break out of it. I've wanted to stay together and have put much of my effort there. She's been unsure or leaning towards an amicable split. I feel like AA could finally be the thing that is going to lead to major changes. Possibly those changes will lead to the end of this marriage.
(((WestMan))) I can identify with the fear and anger I too felt that my marriage might end if he found sobriety and then I ended it because it became obvious that I could no longer live with the insanity.
Alanon suggests that we make no major changes for the first 6 months to a year in program That is because we are often so confused that it takes that long to put the focus on ourselves, determine what is best for us and develop the self esteem to act.
Please trust the process you are not alone and the new tools that alanon offers will help to restore your feelings of self worth and purpose. Keep coming back and living one day at a time - it works
Hi WestMan, I had a lot of denial as well. Even when my wife got her first DUI, I stayed in denial of many hard facts about alcoholism. it wasn't until her second DUI, and consequent second rehab that I went to a family day session and found out about Al Anon. I had known before, but the denial kept me out of readiness for it, so only went a couple times. Once the denial had large cracks in it, I started going to Al Anon.
At one of my first meetings, the topic was "unacceptable behavior". I thought "what's this going to be about, I know everything that's going on now, and there is no unacceptable behavior". Then the meeting commenced, and about 15 minutes into it I was floored. So many things that I had accepted from my wife, that normally there was no way I would accept them from anyone else. Then another 15 minutes in, I realized how much unacceptable behaviors *I* had! No way!! I was told I didn't cause her alcoholism!! But that doesn't mean I didn't have my part in it, and that I'm the easiest to live with person in the world either!
Keep on going WestMan, the path for me has been full of surprises, and the outcome has been great.
Hey Westman - so glad you were able to talk and speak your truth. One of the best suggestions I got early on was to just stay in the here and now. Try to not consider the past nor the future as my thinking was very distorted from the disease. Staying right here/now helped me see that I am upright, healthy, etc. and OK. I wasn't even able to consider One Day at a Time when I found Al-Anon but I could do the exact present moment...
I'm with those above me - keep focusing on the program and you and trust the process. It's brought me to a place of peace and I am way better today at coping with life on life's terms than I ever was before. (((Hugs)))
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Try to pick up some literature at your next meeting and remember to keep the focus on yourself and that we are powerless over others. 
