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Has anyone had the issue of..."I snooped and now I know condemning things about my A." I listen to him lie and lie and lie and the whole time I'm sittting here with questions that I can't ask. I strongly feel like if I brought up what I know he would become very angry. and I'm always afraid to make him upset. I feel very depressed about this. It's very hard to watch him keep secrets from me, and when I casually offer an opportunity for him to be honest he won't.
What helped me a lot under the same condition was my experienced sponsor. I learned new stuff and practiced and got better over time. Keep coming back. (((hugs)))
What helped me was learning that the behaviours you describe are common traits and behaviours in the disease of alcoholism. An A doesn't do things personally to other people, it is the disease doing what it needs to do to keep active and to keep the alcoholic in denial.
I discovered the more I kept out of my A hubs business and worked on myself, the happier I got.
Also what helped me when he started to lie, I didn't engage. I maybe left the room, changed the subject, whatever it needed not to pull me into the crazy making behaviours.
Alcoholics lie. Its just what they do.
I also put measures in place to make sure his reckless behaviour couldn't impact on me financially. So separate bank accounts, he has no access to my money etc. This helped me a lot. I can't be made homeless or put in debt by him.
This is all rather stark and painful but it is what helped me.
UGH, this entire deception/lying/hiding the truth thing was one of the WORST things for me in my relationships with alcoholics. Truth being optional really robbed me of my spirit, it was possibly the most damaging of all the trials and tribulations. Trying to adapt and stay sane, solid and centered in that kind of atmosphere is challenging. SO confusing. Very ungrounding. It's very unnerving to be shunted out of your integrity, out of alignment with your inner truth, to slip off axis and be out of touch with your ability to say what you know, acknowledge the truth and act on it. It creates enormous internal anxiety and pressure as our common sense and honesty doesn't have an outlet. Our identity becomes disfigured and that has major ramifications and ripple effects through every aspect of life. We end up like contortionists, trying all sorts of strategies in a losing game. We get in the habit of ignoring our alarm bells as they ring louder and louder. I truly think it is one of the worst symptoms of our para-disease, or one of the worst experiences of living with an alcoholic before our recovery has begun.
I was always quite impatient with the lies and insanity and would just blurt things out confrontationally. Obviously the punishment was swift and severe so for a time I was too scared to, and I was also convinced to second guess myself and abandon myself. That was a DISASTER psychologically.
I didn't have to snoop though - everything is always so blatantly obvious with my alcoholic family members that blind freddy could see it from a mile away.
I feel for you. It's a rough situation. I know now that nothing is worth compromising my self for, and I love the feeling of being true to myself and not having to betray that any more. But, I don't live with them and am not married to one. My personal life is very separate now. Calm Lady's advice is great: establishing some independence so that we don't have to be so invested in what the alcoholics do is really freeing.
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You are young, my son, and, as the years go by, time will change and even reverse many of your present opinions. Refrain therefore awhile from setting yourself up as a judge of the highest matters. Plato
I was the queen of I Spy around my home with my two sons before I came into recovery. Good lord, I spent hours of days doing the search and discover in my home. They were quite good at hiding many things; I felt badly at times for them, as I was better at finding stuff than they were at hiding. They were careless and sloppy with their 'stash' and stuff so I was absolutely obsessed with finding and getting rid of substances, etc.
When I got to Al-Anon and was told to mind my own business, I truly thought they were crazy. After I, I was entitled to know the truth in my home. These were my sons and I had a right to ...................................................
It took me time to realize that the snooping and worrying and obsessing was a huge portion of my insanity caused by the disease. Yes, they lied often/always. What I learned is when I stopped asking questions and following them around with ideas, suggestions, directions, etc. they stopped with the untruths. When I learned to set boundaries, I found more peace. They tested boundaries and it was not comfortable, but doing the right thing at times is harder than living with the predicted chaos/insanity of the disease.
So, fill your life with activities you enjoy. Fill your time with your own recovery. It's reasonably safe to assume that without some type of recovery, the insanity will continue and you have the choice to engage or not. When I stopped talking, questioning, following - they did not know what was happening. It feels uncomfortable and unnatural at first, but it then feels good/necessary.
I no longer look for evidence of using/drinking/etc. I just assume it's happening and so long as my boundaries are respected, I've let it go...
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I found that simply saying 'I'm sorry, but I don't believe that' allowed me to say my truth, so I wasn't lying, without engaging in any more arguments. Alternatively just saying 'oh!' and carrying on with what I was doing seemed to deal with it as well.
I did find that I came to like my husband a lot less when I saw his lies and lack of responsibility so, if I want to stay with him, I have to accept that these things are the workings of his disease.
I also reached a point when I decided that, instead of snooping, I would prefer to think about my life, what I was doing with my time, was it relaxing, rewarding or stressful? Snooping was something that I found stressful and with a load of self-restraint I learnt not to bother any more. The saying 'more will be revealed' helped me to accept that whatever was going on I would learn what I needed to learn in due course.
I did find that I came to like my husband a lot less when I saw his lies and lack of responsibility so, if I want to stay with him, I have to accept that these things are the workings of his disease.
Yes to the above. Thank you for saying how I feel.
The lack of responsibility is the more irritating of the two traits, in my opinion. Yes, I know I am judging!!
What motivated the snooping for me was to validate the BS. Once I validated it, I often told him.
What motivated me to do that? I wanted him to apologize. And change. I wanted his words and actions to match up because every single day he would tell me, "I love you." The words and actions NOT matching up made me neurotic. But I did not understand alcoholic behavior then.
You're right, he did blow up most of the time, a manipulation to keep me from challenging him and it usually worked. He knew I was terrified of his anger. But sometimes he explained it away with more BS.
I am powerless to make anyone be honest with me... powerless to demand loyalty and respect.... powerless to get my husband to view marriage as I do.... powerless to get him to view me as an equal partner.... powerless to make someone wake up and see what they're doing..... powerless to make anyone change.
My power comes in giving MYSELF what I need. No longer looking to others, outside of myself to get my sense of security. I cannot trust the alcoholics in my life. However, I CAN TRUST MYSELF... the guide within me always.... I can listen to.... I can trust... and I can nurture that guide. Al-anon shows me how.
What I say today to obvious lies is, "Is that so?" or "is that true?" And even if the answer is yes, I understand alcoholism today, their need to protect their addiction. My psyche kinda feels better though when I validate my inner knowing, uttering something like, "okay then."
And daily prayers for him, absolutely. The prayer always being for God, not begging for what I think I need....
"God, please bring him closer to YOU."
How grateful I am to have a fellowship walking with me, we never have to do this alone (((hugs)))
-- Edited by 2HP on Tuesday 3rd of January 2017 12:17:43 PM
This is a place for growth in my life right now too. My partner had been sober for almost ten years. We have been together for four and in the last six months he made the decision to start drinking again. Not only is he a different person but the lying feels like it's non-stop. He says he can't tell me things because of how I react. I wouldn't want to deal with my reactions either-it sucks and I get that.
I struggle with finding out he had kept things from me when he was sober as well. I don't know how to be in a relationship with someone I don't trust. I don't know how to respect someone I don't trust, and while i can empathize with the fact that he is sick, I struggle to forgive him for it and for his actions.
I find so much strenght in hearing other people share their maddening experiences of dealing with their A lying. I immediately turn around and shame myself though for not being okay. My first response is to fight or to leave. My life as a result has become an unmanageable emotional yo-yo. I suppose the lesson I'm having to learn (and re-learnand learn again) is that reacting makes it worse. I don' mean for him, I mean for me. While it may seem vindicating to point out how sick and ridiculous he is being, I'm the one who suffers when I do.
I still don't know how to be okay with my situation. 8 fight against it daily-hourly-constantly. My heart goes out to you and everyone else who has ever experienced loving an addict.
Sometimes the less i know the better. Snooping never ends well for me. But neither does believing anything a liar says. I can tell when someome is hiding something. Or lying. I get that urge to convince myself im not crazy by going digging. But these days i rely on my recovery friends to find validation without going down the rabbit hole. Some people will steal your shoes, wear them in front of you and swear they bought them from the shoe shop years ago. Leave crazy to itself is my best suggestion, it gets contagious! Take care.
I remember how important it felt for me to trust myself and be true to my own values and also how reassured I was when I read others saying that we don't have to decide everything all at once - we can take our time. That kind of freed me up to explore what I wanted to do 'regardless of anyone else's drinking'. Good to see you looking after yourself and keeping the focus on you and your feelings.
Honestly, what helped me was this: I stopped spying. I stopped following his iPhone on our account: I had him change his Apple ID password. I stopped looking for empties around the house. I knew he would lie anyway so I stopped caring about whether it was truth or it was a lie, because I already knew. It was who he was and I decided that I didn't want to be that kind of person who snooped and spied and tracked and pointed out all his wrong doings because I'm not so sure that what I was doing was all that honorable, either.
Keep the focus on you. If you do that, you'll soon forget to look for what he is or isn't doing. There will be peace for you because you will honor and respect yourself. Let the alcoholic decide when or if they want to focus on recovery or honesty for themselves. We can't change anybody but ourselves! HUGS to you. I snooped and spied and cried and tried to believe the lies for years. It wasn't an overnight process or a lightbulb moment. It was hard work and recovery and honest conversations with my sponsor(s).
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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
Oh, I just had a case of "I Spy" last night. I knew something was up when my husband turned on the light in the room he usually hides his stash in and then he started guarding his mug when I went into the kitchen to get something. Then he got "tired" and went to bed at 7:30 right after eating dinner, which is usually the indicator that he's been drinking. Instead of just letting all the flags be there, I felt like I needed "evidence" because I was uncomfortable with how I was feeling and was getting mad that the next day (today) was my birthday and how could he...we made an agreement that he wouldn't drink between Christmas and my birthday.
So I went snooping and in like 10 seconds found the flask of vodka in the file cabinet. I didn't approach him immediately about it (which is what I'd usually do). Instead I watched the Golden Globes and when I was ready to go to bed went into the bedroom and when he woke up briefly I explained that I was mad and found the bottle of vodka he was drinking when he was on the phone with his father. He asked me where I found it (which makes me think there are others probably hidden somewhere.) He said, "Well, I guess I'll sleep on the couch," and I answered with, "Yup." He snores incredibly loud when he's drunk and I'm almost 7 months pregnant, so my rest is paramount. He doesn't work, so he can sleep all day if he wants when I'm at work.
I had an okay night's sleep. I'm still in a snit of a mood today and I think I'm going to cancel our dinner that we were planning on for my birthday tonight because I'd rather just be home. It's freezing here, I'm tired and I don't really feel like celebrating. He asked me if I wanted to open the birthday presents he got for me and I said not really.
I saw him at lunch today and we were civil to each other but there was an air of each of us being angry at the other. I probably shouldn't have looked for the bottle, but I did and I need to live with the consequences. We constantly have discussions about trust and until he works on dealing with his addiction, I need to just come to grips with the fact that there won't be any. Until he wants to recover, the lying, drinking and all the rest of active addiction will continue to be there. What I need to do is figure out how much I'm ready to live with and how to just let go. The 3 Cs come to mind - I didn't cause it, I can't control it and I can't cure it. I did repeat some of the slogans and the serenity prayer last night to myself when he was guarded over his glass and it helped for a bit. I even thought maybe I was overreacting for about half an hour until he looked blitzed and said he was going to "lie down." I even thought to myself, "What is finding a bottle going to get you?" and I held off looking for a bit. But that nagging feeling inside just took over and I went searching.
Usually I'd want to talk it over with him to get him to say he's sorry and he's going to do this and that, blah, blah, blah. It's all talk. He says what he thinks I want to hear, I think he's going to change and everything stays the same. He'll say that I'm shaming him and I'll say that he's not being honest with me. "Letting Go and Letting God" is probably in order. I don't know if I have the ability to do that, but I get that the cycle just isn't working for me anymore. My goal is going to be to go home tonight get in some comfortable clothes, figure out something to eat, knit and keep to myself. I'm not going to try to search for the rest of the bottles even though deep down I really want to. I get that's my disease. Hopefully he won't be drunk for our birthing class tomorrow, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.
I honestly think it's baby steps. A year ago I would've been screaming and waking him up and I'd be planning on scouring the rest of the house to make sure there wasn't any more in the house. Heck, I even thought about asking him today if there were more bottles, but I know he's not going to tell me if there are. And if I do find them and dump them out, etc. he'll just go buy more.
Happy, Happy Brithday SDB - hope you found some joy in the miracle of being born and living life! I love how you 'see' your growth - that's all we can expect and hope for....progress always, not perfection. (((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I have been dealing with this same conflict. It got brought to my attention before the holidays that my ex was not doing so well. I saw a picture of him on Facebook and he looked like he had not been taking good care of himself and a friend that lives with him brought to my attention some strange behavior. I started spinning and then I snooped oops. We are still on the same phone plain so I can see his call log and I found that he was calling his dealer on a regular basses. I knew that if I brought this to him he would feel violated and it might push him even further then hes already gone. I called him told him I saw a picture of him and was concerned. I also told him I was coming from a place of love and there is no judgement and that if he needs help I'm here for him. He lied said he was just not eating well and thanked me for being concerned that it meant a lot. I realized there is really nothing I can do after that. That hes not doing anything that directly effects me. That its my choice if I let it effect me and that I am the one that made the choice to find this information. I'm still struggling with it but I pray about it every day and it does seem to help. I also remind myself of how powerless I am over this matter and all matter attributing to his addiction. This helps me put the focus back on myself where it belongs.
I hope you find the answers you are looking for <3
What everyone is saying is really hitting home for me. I am new here and will be sharing my story soon, but through browsing the boards to find my way around, I stumbled across this thread and I can really appreciate what everyone has said. Thank you for sharing!
Aloha and welcome to the board Rick...stick around and take in the shares of the members...There is no pressure to share your story. You will and can do that when it is more important. It took me a long long time to let the fellowship know who I was because of the sick emotions I carried with me into the rooms. When it was time I was treated and accepted beyond my expectations. I was blessed. Take it slow and keep coming back. (((hugs)))
I'm going through something like this now. It is not with my RAH but with my stepdaughter. I really want to discuss it with my H but that rarely ends well.
I decided, for myself, I'm going to sit with the knowledge and pray about it for a few days. I need to check MY motives first.
Welcome Rick - so glad you found us and are gaining some peace from the messages here! (((Hugs)))
Jaeger - BTDT - Been There...Done That - the power of prayer amazes every day...(((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thank you all for your replies. I'm glad I'm not alone in this. I've recently let go of the snooping to an extent. Sometimes it gets the better of me, and sometimes I have to realize it does no good.
