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I'm sure everyone here knows what I mean. My AH and I have been fighting a lot lately about him staying out drinking. I'm not giving him heck about drinking bc I know he won't quit that until he's ready. I'm asking him to come drink at home instead of staying at his workplace all the time with his friends. He reacts though just like I'm telling him not to drink, with complete resistance and stubbornness. I know that I am trying to control someone else's actions (which is a no-no) but I can't accept what he is doing and what else I'm hearing rumors about going on at his workplace after close. So last night he was really drunk and just started laying into me and he said he feels trapped and he doesn't want to be with me and he is going to move his stuff out today. I just sat and let him go on. So today he's acting like nothing happened at all. I'm sitting here wondering was that crazy drunk talk or was that drunk truth coming out? Anyone have ESH regarding drunk talk and how seriously to take it? Cuz if that was truth then he needs to go. I am planning to talk with him about it too when I can catch him sober.
Drunk talk is meant in the moment and most of the time it is blocked out or it is black out based upon the severity of the drinking.
I think right now the better question is he's going to continue to do this so what do you want to do? Are you attending meetings and as important do you have a sponsor? Working the steps and knowing me in a healthy way .. what did I want in terms of my XAHs drunk talk .. he found out the hard way. I really meant what I said and said what I meant .. I wish I had said it nicer .. LOL .. on a good day at least.
So what do you want, and are you willing to do the work to get healthy regardless if he is drinking or not or better yet .. regardless of the drunk talk? I do not engage people in drunk talk .. because it is drunk talk .. means nothing except in that moment.
Hugs S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I do not attend meetings bc they are held only once a week in my area and at a time that I am obligated to be doing something else (I cannot get out of it). I'm hoping to get to some meetings in a bigger town but that hasn't worked out bc it would be several hours drive time. So no meetings no sponsor.
I have been thinking along the lines of what you asked and specifically with regards to setting boundaries--because I keep saying I'm not ok with what he's doing but I keep letting him get away with it. I know what my response should be. I'm just not strong enough to do it. This has been an issue for us the entire 5 years we've known each other and it never gets resolved.
There are meetings here online and I know people do online sponsorship although it is not the same as a face to face sponsor.
I highly recommend the podcasts that are available on youtube they used to also be on iTunes .. the youtube ones are great too. The other thing is the lit .. there is a book that I think would help a great deal it is a powerful little book that is packed with information about alanon and how it works she's a very no nonsense person about it. Getting them Sober .. do not let the title fool you it's about the non A. Toby Drew Rice or Toby Rice Drew ... I get the names mixed up .. lol .. I love her book .. it's very good in terms of understanding the Non A and what the dynamic is, boundaries are not about controlling the other person .. they are about what is and is not ok for you. At the moment my boundary is with my XAH that if nothing changes nothing changes .. so I choose not to engage him while I know he's in crazytown. Same behavior .. no response. I haven't spoken to my X for about 2 years now .. and I just saw him with the attorney's last July .. lol.
My X is an X for a reason .. lol .. we were awful together .. I can honestly look back and I do not think I really ever loved him or maybe the right thing to say is I loved him with my very limited understanding of what love meant to me at the time. I can also honestly say .. knowing how I define love now and what I am capable of giving to someone else .. I would not have chosen him if he were before me now.
My point is my relationship in the words of his attorney .. we have no business speaking to each other and since he doesn't want to talk about the kids ever .. there is no point of having contact .. umm ouch .. that was HIS attorney. It is what it is.
So there are ways to deal with a lot of what you are going through .. it really does come back to are you sick and tired of being sick and tired .. if you are there is help available regardless if you can get to a meeting or not .. the information here abounds there are many wise people around here far more apt at expressing themselves than I am .. lol .. I try to talk alanon I just stick to my experiences it is what works for me. DO keep coming back and DO keep the focus on you .. you will find a whole lot of ESH around here like I said before .. it's really up to you and what you are ready for.
Hugs S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I sort of tune it usually. I have stated many, many times that "I will not discuss this with you if you have been drinking" about any serious topics and I have stuck to that for long enough that it has sort of sunken in with most of my qualifiers; that's my boundary. Otherwise it's confusing and I end up getting all upset over something that turns out to be untrue or no longer relevant or...it's just not worth it.
I talk in my sleep sometimes and I can appear to be completely awake and the things I say are utterly bizarre, apparently. I look at drunk talk like that; the mouth is moving but the brain is just firing randomly and who knows where any of it comes from...there might be elements of truth the same way there are elements of real life in my dreams but that doesn't mean any of it is "my truth", it's just random craziness. I don't hold someone accountable for things they say when they are asleep, and drunk, at a certain point, is basically the same as being asleep.
Boundary no.2 for me is that if someone is abusive towards me/around me when they are drinking then they cannot be around me when they are drinking. No exceptions. That means that if I cannot make the person leave or stay away from me then I leave the vicinity. When you turn "i shouldn't have to" into 'I will not" it's easier, I think. My boundaries are not flexible and they work much better that way.
Asking him for clarification is of course your right though. Although I find the only response i ever get is "I don't remember saying that" or "you must have pushed me to make me say something like that". Ugh.
I have a non-negotiable policy of "I will not talk to you when you are impaired". Period. If he continues, I walk away. I just drop the rope. This is to preserve my serenity, not to protect him in any way. I don't think anyone becomes more truthful or enlightened when they are drunk. I will be there when he's sober if he's really interested in a heart to heart. When he does spit out something mean I tell him in a boring tone the next day..."you were drunk and this is what you said to me"...or this is what you did or this is what your children witnessed....then I leave him to sort it out.
You need to decide what you will tolerate. What is your deal-breaker? This is not an easy question I know - but I ask myself in my head all the time so I am sharing this with you - we teach others how to treat us by what we will allow.
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Kelly
"Go placidly amid the noise and haste and remember what peace there may be in silence...." Desiderata
I also remove myself if AH gets drunk. During my childhood I was taught I had to sit and tolerate drunk rubbish. In Al-anon, I learned that I was allowed to remove myself from the room, or off the phone, or from replying to drunk emails or texts.
If my AH starts, he finds himself in an empty room.
His verbal abuse has dropped right down. He rarely tries to do it now. He knows what I do if he does.
I have set firm Bounderies also regarding drunk talk,
Don't call me in the afternoon while drinking,if you want to talk call in the mornings while your sober ,I've kept that boundary also,
It's worked so far for a long time still today ,also they know I'll hang up on them quickly should they call me drunk.
Wishing you luck ((((Jayla)))),,,,,step work ,meetings,sponser,reading dailies,courage to change and odat,meditation,serenity prayer,list goes on,have all helped me to cope and live a serene life ,,,it works if you work it and your worth it,,,,,,hugs. LU
Thank you everyone. There are so many good points here that I need to consider and decide on. But one thing I know right away is that I should start doing the online meetings on here since I can't go to a f2f meeting. And I need to get some of the literature and podcasts that you guys mentioned. I also have a rule of not talking to him when he's drunk but that night I did not realize how drunk he was until we were already in the middle of things (he has to drink ALOT before he shows the affects). I can see now that instead of just sitting there listening to his drunk ramblings it would be better to remove myself from it. The pain from all this crap he pulls has become unmanageable, and I am sick and tired of feeling (and being told) that I'm crazy. It's amazing to me how much this information dovetails with what I learned about domestic violence and amazing to me that I am just now seeing the parallels between the two.
I don't like labels so the term used here doesn't do anything for me.....I prefer to just keep my program, life, thinking, etc. as simple as possible. I don't have any discussions with impaired folks - anybody at any time. I don't treat my AH any different than others - my personal boundary is I just don't do 'it'. If someone calls me or corners me and is under the influence, no matter who, where or when, I do what I need to do to distance myself.
Boundaries are for me. They are not just for my A(s), they are in effect across the board. Our Betty here (hotrod) has a signature that discusses treating everyone with kindness and respect and that's my goal. When I am inconsistent in my actions/responses, it causes me pain, confusion and typically some amends-making.
So - working this program gave me enough sanity to not label events, people, etc. It gave me the strength to discover what I need most in my life. It gave me the courage to use the tools and steps to align my actions, thoughts, responses in a spiritual manner that aligns with my needs. When I first started out, the most important tool I was given was PAUSE. Pausing just long enough to realize my own insanity was kicking in and wanting to answer, respond, justify, argue, defend, explain, be right. NONE of these align with my new strategy of serenity first no matter what.
As we recover, we learn to focus on our needs and wants and as our sanity is restored, we can make decisions that are in our best interest. (((Hugs))) - keep coming back.....there is hope and help in recovery!!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Oh man I am so quick to want to justify and prove my "rightness" all the time. I can see how the program could be helpful all across the board too not just in dealing with the A.
(((Jayla))) - you are not alone!!! We have a slogan - JADE - Don't Justify, Don't Argue, Don't Defend and Don't Explain. What you realize is exactly how powerful recovery has been for me - it's my way of living my life now - not just my way of living with my qualifiers...
Good on you - we also talk about the 3 A(s) ... Awareness, Acceptance, Action. (((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
The other beauty of the program is take what you like and leave the rest. Sometimes it takes some time before what someone else has shared to click. In the meantime I'm licking my wounded ego that needs no additional inflating until I'm ready for the message. My sponsor always shared when she came into the program she was married .. Unless you were married to the A still she silently muted the person talking. She got over that habit about 4 years into her 20+ years in the program. It takes time to figure things out. Hugs Keep coming back .. You are worth it.
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I've been in recovery almost 30 years and can share that the more I focus on me and what I can do, am doing or am led to from my HP, it's really none of my business what other's are doing/saying/not. The freedom that comes with truly letting others be who they are and do what they are doing is beyond words. My own sponsor said to me once, and only once - who are you to suggest ..................................... She was spot on. Just because I think my qualifiers are using, lying, manipulating, deceiving, etc. - so what? Who am I to pass that judgement or even discuss that school of thought.
Walking away from chaos/drama with grace and dignity is a lovely gift this program has given me. I wasted so much time trying to reason, rationalize, explain and change others who didn't even remember the next day!!
I am blessed to have found a group that does NOT talk about qualifier's and what they are/have doing/done. We talk about ourselves, our set-backs, our successes, our use of tools when we face challenges/chaos, etc. Newcomers are accepted openly and anyone who needs more attention or is 'in crisis' is offered a one-on-one.
Serenity is correct - we are always reminded to take what we like and leave the rest behind - stepping away from uncomfortable discussions in/out of recovery is also a gift. We always have choices....
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I tend to agree with IAH. Meetings where we focus on ourselves, steps, slogans and traditions are very powerful. They give me great practice in learning how to keep the focus on myself.
Before entering program I was "other" directed and thought I was perfect. Entering program and learning how to keep the focus on myself, live one day at a time, examining my motives proved otherwise. Now I am much too busy to focus on others and judge them. This is indeed a powerful program and one that has saved my sanity. Live and let live is my motto
Now I am much too busy to focus on others and judge them. This is indeed a powerful program and one that has saved my sanity. Live and let live is my motto