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So I've been thinking a lot about forgiveness today and how it has allowed me to let go of so much anger and resentment. For me, forgiving is acceptance, then detachment and then compassion. If that makes any sense, I don't know it does in my head anyway. Forgiving myself and others has been a necessity in my path to recovery and serenity. I would like to know others thoughts and experiences with forgiveness?
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- Carrie
Stress is caused by being 'here' but wanting to be 'there'. Eckhart Tolle
Forgiveness for me is coming to the realisation that anger/resentment/feeling endlessly hurt isn't working for me; it's actually making me more miserable. So the next logical step is, how can I reconsider my thoughts and behavior about this so that it does work for me?
I don't like to be angry or resentful, but at the same time, I don't like to feel that I have compromised my own integrity or behaved like a doormat to 'keep the peace". Forgiveness for me is finding the sweet spot in between and then defending my right to be in that serene place where I feel that I am respecting my needs and others needs sufficiently that it doesn't keep me awake at night. It's not a moral issue for me now (it once was); it's just about what I am comfortable with- accepting that people are who they are and also taking appropriate action to ensure that their actions don't harm me any further. If someone has done a great deal of harm to me, the best way that i can achieve that is to have no contact with them, not as a punnishment but to maintain my own serenity and sense of integrity.
Great Topic I found that in order to embrace recovery, forgiveness is extremely important to that process. I needed to be willing to first let go of my anger over the situation, move to acceptance of life on life's terms, and let go of my expectations of others . Then all of a sudden there was no need to be forgiving at all.
The Steps helped me to recognize these defects and to shed them willingly especially when I saw how they were hurting me and keeping me frozen in the past
There is a reading in the ODAT that suggest that we should not judge, and if we don't judge itwould not be necessary to forgive . I find that to be true. Letting go of expectations and living in acceptance has improved my ability to love unconditionally, which is such a gift of this program/
I agree with all you say here. These were the gifts for me. Forgiveness and compassion replaced anger and resentment and made the world a much brighter place.
I love how you have outlined forgiveness as a process. It makes good sense. Some of those parts may take longer than others and i do believe each one needs the other. One can't leap straight to compassion without acceptance, acceptance needs the balm of detachment when the hurt is deep. Thank you so much for posting this! Im going to bookmark it, having wavered between detachment and tiny compassion for too many years.
Great topic - and lovely shares. I did not realize how deeply held my perceptions, attitudes, values and resentments were until I worked the steps in Al-Anon. For me, forgiveness is a process. I don't believe I need to be submissive nor do I need to dominate. Recovery gave me the gift of just being me....at the same time, accepting me and others exactly as we are - imperfect has truly been the gift that keeps on giving.
I had to stop assuming others were acting towards me, because of me or to spite me. How others act and react, what they say and think has nothing to do with me - it has to do with them. Forgiveness for me is like love - it's got to start with me, and then can reach beyond me. My biggest 'gotcha' is feeling as if I am being used. With 2 qualifiers being my children, they can truly touch my heart and have me question my boundaries faster than anyone. What I am coming to realize is loving them at times can be a double-edge sword - I always want to give them another chance to show me they can be 'real'....and yet, many times it doesn't go as I thought it would. I've had to come to realize that this is life on life's terms. It doesn't make them bad for being unable to do what they hoped....and it doesn't make me a failure for giving them a chance. It just is...I am learning slowly in recovery that if I don't take risks, my rewards are also limited.
I love what Betty said about expectations - that's what gets me wrapped up in trouble all the time. Forgiveness is certainly a process, but it's not a choice. If I want to benefit from a spiritual life, I must do all that I can to forgive - and it's for me, and not for anyone else!
(((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
"For me, forgiving is acceptance, then detachment and then compassion." - Bunny/Carrie I totally agree with you, Carrie. That is exactly what happened to me and in that order toward my RA dear husband of 39 years and my A son and many of my friends who are A's.
Until I accepted that alcoholism is totally beyond their control and mine, and that it is a disease, I was angry and resentful 24/7. I even got to the point of disliking being around any of them. These feelings really made me feel guilty too. "Let's just heap on more junk upon myself". Insanity to the maximum. I was always scared when my DH would lay down for a nap (which was about 5+ hours worth a day) because I was afraid that he wouldn't wake up. I'd check that he was breathing constantly. I dreaded phone calls from our son's phone number because I was afraid that he was dead or in the hospital with another seizure. Past experiences with him tainted my conversations with him.
It wasn't until Al Anon that I began to understand and internalize that my life was "unmanageable" and that I was "insane" because of alcoholism. I wasn't the alcoholic, they were. Why was I living like I was insane and they seemed fine swimming around in their bottle ? Al Anon and my group have opened my eyes and my heart.
I have fallen in love with my husband again. He is a sweet, compassionate, hysterically funny man and my soulmate. We had always done everything together, and it was very hard the last 5 years because we quit doing things together because he was always drinking and incapacitated. (Today is his 5 month anniversary of sobriety, 39 years married yesterday & we celebrated.) I asked him yesterday if he was truly happy with his life now. He just gave me the softest smile. He is.
I can talk with my son and love him like I haven't for a long time. I am no longer afraid of the phone calls, nor do I condemn him for all that he has done in the past (caused bankruptcy, stolen from us and stole our ID, run up credit card debt in our names, etc.) The past is now just that, the past.
I do have to say that I have always had my HP, my Father, who has watched over and protected me and mine. And I trust that He will always continue to be there for me and mine. So it wasn't hard for me to allow Him to restore me back to sanity. What I needed was Al Anon to guide me to the forgiveness, compassion, and understanding that I have today. And my HP Father led me right to them. (I'm a newbie, 5 months in Al Anon, but my, how I have grown...progress and by no means perfection.)
Funny....I sometimes wonder if I am crazy now because the "old me" felt very justified in my anger and resentment, and a lot of people would have probably agreed with the "old me". Now the "new me" doesn't feel any of that...just love, excitement, and a lot of serenity. I really like the "new me"!!!! I just have to get used to her.
Aloha all...topics like this are so valuable and helpful when I remember to keep and open mind and why. My first reactions to the subject, early on was "No Way"!! I won't do it and then I got a sponsor wiser than all who knew what the consequences were on my refusal to do so. The on going fear and resentments were deep pitfalls after I gained some portion of piece of mind and serenity...I rode the roller coaster and it was killing me.
My sponsor taught me that it wasn't that I couldn't forgive and that I wouldn't forgive. I refused out of fear and anxiety and my ego was in the lead. We worked on the reasons for why I wouldn't forgive and arrived at being able to forgive the person and not the offence. I would not justify and don't today justify the behavior. Justifying the behavior is what my enabling does which put me in program. I will not to the best of my ability do that any longer and I forgive myself for doing in in the past. ((((hugs))))
I struggle with this topic; I am still in the "angry and resentful" state but I am trying to work this out. So far I have not been able to figure out a way to detach completely without getting a divorce. In my mind I am already divorced from him; we live in the same place and parent together (sort of) but I depend on him for nearly nothing anymore.
Recently he decided he would quit this current job before they fire him. Strange as it sounds, it was the most sensible thing I think he has said in months. It's not a position that suits him well, and the stress gives him more excuses to drink. (Not like he needs any, but it's so convenient.) He also said he was going to do something about a thing in our lives that has been a financial black hole. This was the 2nd most sensible thing he has said. I got quietly excited that maybe there were vestiges of his old smart self coming through.
Then tonight he called while we were at the grocery store (he's away on a business trip) and was clearly loaded, and clearly taking back all the sensible things he had suggested earlier. My son was trying to tell him about some nice things that happened tonight and my AH managed to ruin it for my son. I took the phone back and asked him straight out, "are you drinking". Believe it or not I have never asked him this before. Mostly because I never wanted to hear the truth out loud. He got a little peeved and of course insisted Everything Is Great but I am thinking that tomorrow he won't remember a thing about this conversation. And then all the Angry Thoughts came flooding back.
I found myself wandering the aisles of the grocery store just saying "why why why why" over and over again. It's not a useful question. I got to thinking about the whole Higher Power, it being the holidays and all. I just can't bring myself to pray these days. What do I say? There isn't anything that I can pray for that doesn't eventually have an answer that I wish I could have, and that I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get. My christian education would say that this is a poorly structured prayer, then - if it's just a demand/request for my wishes. So if I can't have that, I've got nothing in the prayer box. Or at least nothing more than, "Hey, HP, as you and I know, my AH is real busy killing himself slowly (maybe you could speed this up because the tempo of it is really sucking) and ruining my life. I just wanted to wave my hand over here and say Happy Holidays, apparently you've Got This, and I'm just the lucky bystander/collateral damage. Well, Merry Christmas to you." I really want to start a club called "Job's Kids". You know, the family Job had that got killed just because Satan and God decided to play checkers with Job. No voice, no identity, just collateral damage.
Anyway, the one thing that I Have been hanging onto is that I understand that alcoholism is ultimately a disease. I can't be mad at someone for having cancer. Even if their treatment were to bankrupt the family and cause all kinds of stress, you never blame it on the cancer-stricken person. I need to somehow apply that to the alcoholic in my life. I promised to stay married to him in sickness and in health, and holy cow we're definitely doing the sickness part. So when it gets really bad, I try to just meditate my way into a place where I can look at the whole picture with some detachment and say "he wouldn't act like that if he was in control of himself, he wouldn't want to hurt you and the kids like that if he could help it. He's not in control, and he can't help it."
I think about that and I try to forgive him. I think one of the previous posts was very interesting: forgiveness first, Then detachment, then compassion. I'm wondering if I should really think about that order. I may have skipped over forgiveness in my haste to protect myself; to detach has been key to me feeling like I'm not drowning, but I think I've got some work to do in the "forgiveness" phase.
I am all too familiar with the anger/resentment cycle, especially when there are children involved. I did it for almost 39 years with 2 children, one of whom is now an A. I have an RAH, an AS, and the whole maternal side of my hubby were A's and addicts. I wouldn't be able to count how many times I said, "Why can't they see what they are doing to themselves, to me and the family?" And "Why don't they just stop this?" And "If they had more willpower, they would stop this!!!!" Living in that state of mind made me angry, resentful, and disliking them as people (WHEW, I can't believe I just said I disliked them.)
It wasn't until I found Al Anon, started attending meetings, and started embracing the literature that I started to fully accept that the A's in my life suffered from a REAL disease: They could no more help themselves and stop drinking than I could make them help themselves and stop their drinking. They are not in control of it, and I was not in control of them, the situation, or the alcohol, hence everything was out of control.
Bunny's statement - "For me, forgiving is acceptance, then detachment and then compassion" fit me to a tee when it came to being able to forgive the A's in my life. Once I accepted the disease as just that, a horrible, debilitating disease, I was somehow able to "detach" myself from the alcohol/drinking & situation (hating the sin not the sinner), and look at my A's and love them dearly. The "dam" of my anger and resentment burst and compassion just seemed to flow on its own.
I am no longer hurt BY them, now I hurt WITH them. I hurt that they have no control over the bottle, that they suffer from the guilt of not being able to stop, the guilt of knowing how they have hurt us, and that they suffer from alcohol-related physical illness & mental instability.
What a hard life the A's of my life live and have lived. So... I will leave them to my Higher Power because "I can't, they can't, but He can."
Fedora, I hear you. I felt the exact same way. The alcoholic was ruining my life and my families life too. Then I learned that I was not completely powerless over my life and my families life. There was something I could do for me and that ultimately led to great changes in my whole family. I got help at face to face alanon meetings. I learned the philosophy and I am applying the new thinking every day and I have a life beyond my wildest dreams today.
((Fedora))) i hear you about prayer and then I found that prayers for courage, serenity and wisdom never when unanswered so that is how I pray now .
Acceptance of life on life's terms and being willing to let go of the anger and expectations helps.
Sending hugs (((Fedora))) - prayers and positive thoughts too.
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I haven't even gotten to the angry stage. Is anger a must in recovery? I just feel sad and numb. I know that my AS is sick and I can't get mad at him for being sick. Yes, he has taken advantage of me; but that comes with the sickness. Am I not there yet? Am I delusional?
Beth I believe you are in the right place and by no means delusional.
I covered my sadness with anger because it was easier for me to express and i felt in control. If I felt the sadness, it was overwhelming and I would feel hopeless and defeated. Feeling the powerlessness and sadness enabled me to surrender , accept the reality of the disease and attend alanon in order to develop new tools to live by.
(((Beth))) - just as each situation is different that brings us here so are we. Our bottoms differ, our stories differ - we just try to keep an open mind and learn from the program and each other. I don't think you are delusional and recovery for me hasn't been linear - like grief. I've been where you are - extremely sad & numb, and then other times, I've been made as a hornet - mostly at me. I too had a hard time feeling my feelings and anger was my go-to reaction to most people, places and things.
You are just fine and doing just fine. We try to keep our focus on just one day at a time, and do the best to work the program in the same way. (((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
because the "old me" felt very justified in my anger and resentment, and a lot of people would have probably agreed with the "old me". Now the "new me" doesn't feel any of that...just love, excitement, and a lot of serenity. I really like the "new me"!!!! 
I just have to get used to her.
