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I wrote a post last Friday that I could tell ABF had been drinking a little and trying to hide it. (he started AA almost 90 days ago) Soooo obvious to me but he thinks I don't notice. Sooooo badly wanted to call him out (as he WAS getting closer to 90 days sober) but I didn't. I stuck to my lessons and said nada. Came to his house again a few minutes ago and smelled cigarettes and beer on him. (bar or friend house) and again I know he thinks I cannot tell and now I KNOW he is relapsing and no I won't pat him on back that he at least has done good for most of the days (as he has said in past.. "no big deal, I am not perfect, so what if I messed up few times". Uggggggghhhhghhhhhh keeping myself from knowing he is sneaking but he thinks he's being slick is really annoying!!!! And I am not going to be understanding and compassionate about this alcoholism issue. Not saying anything AGAIN but really this problem is bs. sick of it
You've been saying the same things for awhile, where do you draw the line, what is your boundary. What is your bottom. You are very patient, but is this patience doing him any good.
I can so relate aerin as my RAH used to do that to me often. His gaslighting me was actually the thing I hated most about his disease. I still stumble over it. I asked him recently in this episode of sobriety if he thought I was stupid and he said no I just thought I was smarter than you. Ego smh
Suzann, your RAH gave me a chuckle. Didn't think you were stupid, just that he was smarter than you. I'll use this to reframe how I think about the times my late AH hid the alcohol.
I always knew he admired my intelligence and sometimes doubted his own, so it's kind of cool to think he may have had some moments when he thought he was smarter than me.
Linsc.. You are right. I keep giving him "chances" because he keeps saying he is trying and sorry for the slip ups and it is hard and AA is now helping but he still struggles and he asks God for help every day and that I need to know that relapses are normal. I have no real reason to stay (have my own place, no kids with him) but I feel like if I leave I am abandoning someone who needs help and who is stuggling and that walking out is cruel. :( But its been almost 5yrs and I am tired of being understanding, even though I have "personal" boundaries like not engaging with him while drinking etc. He even went to his meeting tonight with alcohol on his breath! Long timers HAD to notice. He said tonights meeting was about writing down people you have hurt and he said he couldn't think of anyone! smh
Fooled and Freetime.. My ABF must think he is smarter than me in this way. It really is almost a joke.
oh.. Linsc.. one more thing is I feel sorry for him because he had a hard life growing up with alcoholic parents. Not sure what this says about me
I think Jerry once told me there is no medal for martyrdom. very true. But I know if I leave he is alone. no family locally, no relationship with alcoholic family anymore. He doesn't want to be around that. So am I a bad person for saying his relapses are my rock bottom? He will for sure say he is not as bad as most men in his AA and that he is trying and every day is a new start for him. That AA still gives a chip for 90 meetings in 90 days even if he relapses. (as long as he shows up) Lin said is my patience doing him any good? He says yes, but now I question if it is. I am so sorry for repeating myself every few weeks. I just have no where to vent or ask questions as no one in my family or friends knows this about him. âď¸Only this board.
Aerin practice taking the focus off of him; his actions, his voice, his attitude ...Him. God as you understand God is your Higher Power and no one else. We know what he has to do to get and stay sober and he has to learn that. He has to get a sponsor which isn't you and a Higher Power which also isn't you. You are a kind, caring loving Child of God and still you didn't cause this, can't control it and will never cure it. You're not working for a medal. I believe you are working for your sanity as I was when I first found the doors of the program and decided to keep going back and leaving my alcoholic/addict wife with my Higher Power as the program suggested. "This is a simple program for complicated people" I was told and I had to learn how to stay simple, humble, following the lead of others until I could walk on my own. She would die or she would get well. She would have to do what your alcoholic also has to do and in the end she did and she lived...not for me for herself and her higher power.
Abandon yourself to God as you understand God....(more follows) (((((Aerin)))))
Aerin, if nothing has changed in 5 years. That to me means you may not have made any changes in your life to move forward and follow your dreams and be the person you want to be. Please be sure you attend meetings and immerse yourself in Alanon literature. And keep coming back here to read and post. I would venture to say that 3/4 of the people on this site come from families of alcoholism. But we must move on and not pity ourselves as that is self destructive. Pity allows us to sit and whine and moan about our lifes situation, instead of giving us energy to think of solutions for our problems. There are things I don't know about you and I hope I am not being to forward with my thoughts about your situation. Take what you like and leave the rest. linsc
Its a frustrating disease and I can relate to that.
You say 'And I am not going to be understanding and compassionate about this alcoholism issue.' Why not? It was getting understanding and compassionate that got me free of the anger, bitterness, resentment. Becoming compassionate through understanding the disease and how it effects not only him but you is the actual key to serenity and peace.
Imagine being able to let go of the expectations we have of another human being, allow them to be exactly who they are and live exactly as they chose without judgement or feeling like they are doing this to me!!! Taking his disease as a personal attack on you or taking a hurt from it is a lack of understanding of the nature of the disease of alcoholism and that for me is the merrygoround of denial that I was on for 20 yrs. I hope you can get some recovery for yourself because in my experience this scenario you are in can go on forever and life is way to short.
Just read your further replys Aerin. I felt the very same way and your right to call it Martyrdom, I was just the same. I felt I was his saviour, im the only one who understands him, if he didnt have me he will die. This was my huge ego. Im only one wee person with no power over another. I can also tell you what happened to my ex A when I left him and really left him to his disease, never took part one bit. He got better!!! what a shocker, lol. I was part of his problem through my being there for him. What irony. When my family left him to his own devices completely without judgement or as a punishment but solely as self protection and acceptance of powerlessness then the miracle happened. Hes been in AA sober for 4 yrs. I am not in his life but our grown up kids are to some extent and thats great, as good as it gets.
Dont sacrifice yourself for your faulty belief that he needs you, he really doesnt. Sorry to sound harsh but to stay at least stay within the truth of it and not with the lie that he will die without you or he has noone. He may have noone in his life and this is most likely the proper state of affairs for him. Its hard being in the life of an alcoholic and it doesnt mean we dont love them or care but we accept the power is in the hands of the drinker and if they are allowed to fall right to their own bottom then there is hope.
I learned that my 'sympathy' was very dangerous for the drinker, in fact life threatening because when I felt sorry for them then I became a first class enabler, I did for them what they should do for themselves, very dangerous because then the disease has room to grow. Go to Alanon, find out why you feel this need to be needed. Its not good for you or for him.
-- Edited by el-cee on Wednesday 7th of December 2016 05:17:32 AM
Before I found AlAnon, I had become consumed with the feeling that I was responsible for the actions, decisions, and behavior of my qualifier. I felt it was my duty to search the house, count drinks, measure bottles for indication of setbacks, and let her know I knew and call her out for it. If I didn't, who else would? She didn't seem inclined at times, and I wanted her to be sober so desperately.
AlAnon helped me realize that she had to find her own path, develop a relationship with her own higher power, and that my monitoring, guiding, controlling and preaching was me overstepping into areas I cannot, nor should not try to control. 'Chances' are not mine to give, they come from her higher power. All I was doing was interfering and delaying her development, and making her feel even worse than she already did.
By turning the attention towards my own need for recovery, I was able to turn hers over to her higher power, regardless of where that took her. I found tremendous comfort when I stopped focusing on where she was at or not in her recovery, counting meetings, bottles, and remembered that she was a person who was ravaged by a terrible disease, who was scared and struggling mightily. It was not loving, or helpful, to have me riding her in addition.
AlAnon is working for me, but I must keep the focus on me, not my qualifier. Work the steps, read and meditate daily to keep my focus and perspective in a healthy place, and attend meetings. So much better place now because of it, and so is my qualifier, who made so much better progress when I stopped trying to show her how smart I was and 'fix' things.
It is one of the hardest things that I have done, to step back and see things that I believed were harmful to someone I loved. But sometimes that is what they need: room to find their way, whatever that may be, on their own with their higher power. Just my thoughts, take what you like and leave the rest...Hang in there
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Paul
"...when we try to control others, we lose the ability to manage our own lives." - Paths to Recovery
Before I found AlAnon, I had become consumed with the feeling that I was responsible for the actions, decisions, and behavior of my qualifier. I felt it was my duty to search the house, count drinks, measure bottles for indication of setbacks, and let her know I knew and call her out for it. If I didn't, who else would? She didn't seem inclined at times, and I wanted her to be sober so desperately.
AlAnon helped me realize that she had to find her own path, develop a relationship with her own higher power, and that my monitoring, guiding, controlling and preaching was me overstepping into areas I cannot, nor should not try to control. 'Chances' are not mine to give, they come from her higher power. All I was doing was interfering and delaying her development, and making her feel even worse than she already did.
By turning the attention towards my own need for recovery, I was able to turn hers over to her higher power, regardless of where that took her. I found tremendous comfort when I stopped focusing on where she was at or not in her recovery, counting meetings, bottles, and remembered that she was a person who was ravaged by a terrible disease, who was scared and struggling mightily. It was not loving, or helpful, to have me riding her in addition.
AlAnon is working for me, but I must keep the focus on me, not my qualifier. Work the steps, read and meditate daily to keep my focus and perspective in a healthy place, and attend meetings. So much better place now because of it, and so is my qualifier, who made so much better progress when I stopped trying to show her how smart I was and 'fix' things.
It is one of the hardest things that I have done, to step back and see things that I believed were harmful to someone I loved. But sometimes that is what they need: room to find their way, whatever that may be, on their own with their higher power.
I definitely agree with you Paul and others who have said this too. I think I have been very (almost overly) patient and understanding for 5 years now. We are 45yrs old. I have a life I want to live and things I want to do. And I would like a partner that can do some of those things with me. Only in the last 8 months has he made attempts to "slow down" the drinking (his words) and finally turned to AA. (still with the intent that he can eventually drink in moderation some day) Unfortunately, I think that stepping back, FAR BACK as in discontinuing the relationship may be what is best for me. I am exhausted. I have learned there is nothing I can do to change HIM. And I don't have it in me anymore to watch or deal with these relapses. It is reducing my quality of life. I have used all my Al Anon "tools" and learned a lot of things (even about myself) But I am becoming resentful of having to even use them. I am sort of shocked (but not really I guess) that he is starting to try and hide it. If I am not there then maybe he won't have to "hide" it from anyone and will have to face it all head on if he choses to drink. Thanks for listening.
I want to clarify something .. Lol .. You don't get a 90 day chip because you show up to meetings .. You are suppose to be rigorously honest in your recovery. 90 day chip is 90 days sober .. Period .. End game. I thought My xah had Some Good justifications lol .. That One takes the cake!! He's not done with his ride yet. .. Again back to he's going to drink or not drink .. What are YOU going to do. Hugs .. S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Serenity.. thanks for clarifying.. I know he will pick up that 90 day chip because he feels he did "good enough". His view is that in almost 90 days he hasn't relapsed "often" so it counts.
Taking a 90 day chip and the justifications of taking it are more examples of the mental gymnastics that an alcoholic brain will perform!
I agree with the others, your own sanity hinges on you taking your eyes off of your RBF and placing him in your HP's hands. Now your eyes are free to focus on the one who requires your attention most...you.
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Bethany
"Folks are usually about as happy as they make their minds up to be." Abe Lincoln
Maybe walking about of his life would be the best thing for him. It would certainly be a consequence to his drinking that he would have to deal with. My AH drank the first few months he was going to AA. Here I was thinking he was sober but in fact he was still drinking on the side. I can relate to how pissed you get when they blatantly lie to your face. I had a hard time detaching with love as I just wanted to point out to him all the time that he wasn't pulling anything over on me. Thank god I found meetings to go to and this site. Sending you positive thoughts and prayers.
pinkchip thank you.. I feel this is true also. By now he knows what he is suppose to do. I stayed at my place tonight. I explained simply that this is another boundary of mine. I will not see him right now. I said I have to put myself first. His choices, his consequences. He says he understands why I am doing this. Maybe he does (from what I have told him of AlAnon) or maybe he is just happy that he doesn't have to see me either. oh well, it is what it is
Aerin you talk about using your tools and being resentful about it and nothing has changed in five years, have you tried working the steps?
My story begins with me joining the fellowship of Alanon while my RAH was in rehab for the first time and my goal was to learn how to make my husband stop drinking. No matter how many tools I used, cried, got mad, threatened to leave he would do the same things, drink. He went to jail, he crashed vehicles, hospital admissions, dui's, you name it. It wasn't until I actually conquered steps 1 2 and 3 did it allow me to turn it over to my HP and let my HP guide me did my AH get the full consequences of his disease. My RAH will be sober 90 days on Christmas. Truly sober. Not "good enough" Sober. But Sober. Your A will not get sober until he has met the full consequences of his disease, maybe that is losing you, I don't know. It wasn't enough for mine. What was enough was me saying to God-my HP, Ok it's on you, you have way more power than I do and I completely surrender this to you. Then blam 2 days later he is in the hospital with a broken leg a crashed motorcycle reeking of booze and no job and no way to support his family, facing surgery and the possibility of never being able to go back to his line of work. Consequences. he's been sober ever since.
Alanon is a spiritual journey that you get to recover you. Separate from your A. It doesn't mean you have to leave him, break up, or you wasted the last 5 years of your life. You have goals you want to accomplish, dreams you want to fulfill, there is nothing stopping you whether you are with your A or not, if he's drinking or not. If your HP wants to use you for a certain purpose, to help you achieve a goal, he will make it happen. By turning it over to your HP it eliminates the guess work on your part, should I or shouldn't I. He will make that decision for you.
I will forever be grateful for those first steps and step 3 was a blinger.
I never relapsed since going to AA. Relapses are OPTIONAL...not normal. Only people that relapse and still want to drink make that excuse.
This is my reality as well. And - it's got everything to do with One Day at a Time. I had a huge response written and my system froze up.
My biggest lesson always was and continues to be "Acceptance is the answer to all my problems today....." You can google this for the full write up and tweak it as necessary for your own scenario. The bottom line for me, just for today, I don't have to like what's going on around me, but if/when I accept it, I can then begin to take the best next action.
(((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
As Fooled said asked above: Have you been working your steps?
The steps and working them honestly with my sponsor was what set me free and gave me the courage to find my own path. My first sponsor was a bit like you: putting up with bad behavior for a while and attending meetings for like 4 years BEFORE she actually started to rigorously work the steps and make the decision to find peace for herself. It took her 4 years of waiting, 4 years of enabling and thinking that she had it figured out just by attending meetings every so often, until she finally dove full in to recovery for herself and got free.
My own journey was ridiculous and what I learned was that we aren't ready until we're ready and sometimes that means we must hit our own bottom, as well. You will know when you've hit yours and you will change and you will grow and the program and your sponsor and MIP, etc will be here with you along the way! HUGS!
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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
Hi Arien,
The deceptive behaviour that accompanies the disease of alcoholism is maddening. If you make that your higher power in the sense that you look to your ABF to determine your own actions it will make you crazy. I know because I had been doing that for YEARS with my AH. The worse he got the worse I got until I lost myself in my AH and the disease. When I came to Al anon I could tell you all about what my AH was doing, what he wanted, needed, expected, did wrong etc. But I couldn't answer basic questions about myself. What do I need right now? What do I like to do? What is my favourite meal? I spent a lot of time focusing on him and putting my life choices in his hands by waiting to see what he would do so I could decide what I could do. Working the steps with my sponsor was what helped set me free. I learned through the steps and my program to let go and let God with my AH. I use a God box as a physical way to hand things over to my HP and try to take my hands off it. And as I decided to leave him and his drinking in God's hands it freed me up to focus on me. I am learning a lot about myself. I'm pursing things that I want to do for myself. I am leading a more fulfilling life by working this program. My AH may never find true sobriety and I have come to accept that now. Truly accept it. No more counting drinks, monitoring his behaviour, trying to figure out if he is drunk or holding my breath when he says he's going to cut back his drinking. There is nothing I can do the change that only he and his HP can do something to change that. I wish him well and I move on with my day. One of the things that helped me was whenever I was spinning about my AH and focusing on him over and over again a member in my face to face group would ask me " what do YOU need right now?" It was such a simple question but often I couldn't answer it. I use that tool often now when I'm spinning about someone or something else I cannot control. I ask myself that question and then try to do something to meet that need. I know it's really hard to shift your focus. Keep working your program and keep coming back.
My wife had her first start at recovery about two days after I read a pamphlet from a group similar to Al Anon. I suddenly didn't get all consumed with what she did, didn't worry about her so much, and she went out and got a DUI.
Her real start at sobriety was when I wasn't around, on a business trip in Canada. Wife went to pick up our son from Christian school, and was busted in the parking lot, cops saw her weaving on the way there. She was in jail without bail for 10 days, they said they would release her to rehab.
At rehab, she finally said "just tell me what to do and I will do it" And she did.
Until I left her alone and didn't make sure she didn't do this, or make sure she didn't get the consequences for that, she hit bottom and determined to recover.
I also took my vision completely off of my qualifier and was able to focus on my own life and recovery. One night at work at the Highway Patrol I got a call on the dispatch board to check the info on a 23152 drunk driver and that was my wife. All I reported to the patrol officer was that the "person is known to me" and we finished up after his shift. She was taken from her car off the highway and the rest is none of my business. Last time I hugged her she was clean and sober and lovely and still none of my business. Our program works....when you work it. ((((hugs))))
Can I please tell you if this is not a marriage to go. I am in a ten year marriage and miserable and going through this. I didn't have any idea he was an alcoholic when I married him. Occasionally drank socially but we didn't live together. He is now out of control drunk. Risks our home finances jobs all for that drink. I am searching for a way out and praying for one. I wish someone had warned me.
Julie we don't give advise...we let you have your own choices and consequences; that is how we did it when we got on to this merry go round and it is part of the lesson. No one could have talked me out of getting into the relationship with my addicts andalcoholics yes I made those decisions more than several times because marrying the women I drank with was natural...I was born and raised to this disease way before I found out what it was. If you are not attending face to face meetings I am suggesting that you do that and continues for a while before visiting this question again. You can revisit this board 24/7 also and go back over past discussions to learn more. Keep coming back. (((hugs)))
I know I have a real issue with being needed because I have abandonment issues. I felt not feeling the abandonment issue was the primary focus of my life.
Certainly I wanted a partner but what I got was a burden. There was not even the remotest evidence of partnerdom in there.
I just made it a #relationship# The relating part was true. I related to their every need. If I didn't have to experience abandonment I would go needless.
Of course no one can be needless for ever but certainly many an alcoholic O know demand that. In some ways it is a great marriage one being needless and the other one having all the needs
Eventually the al anon program started to work for me. I can't say I was around any alcoholic who got sober when I.was with them. In fact one of them was sober but he was submerged in other issues.
For me it's so much easier to submerge myself in other people's problems than in my own
I got plenty of problems right now. I could very easily get off track but these days I am first. That doesn't mean I have no time for others. I do. I just don't submerge myself in them. All the time, every day, I am working on getting a better life. Some days are better than others. Most days are better, very much better
Maresie25
