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My own fault, I let my Al-anon behaviours slip. Without thinking I spoke freely and spoke the truth to AH.
In response I was told what a frigid and unstable person I am. That i should be happy with all the wonderful things I have. That i should walk around with a smile on my face at all times. Not to be unhappy as AH find it irritating.
He also played the victim role and tried to make me feel guilty.
I found him passed out this morning in just his underwear. Not the best start to my day.
Oh well, I touched the stove and found it still to be hot.
I feel battered and exhausted.
His particular beef was that I wont have sex with him. He can't actually perform, btw, but no doubt that is my fault too. He was saying 'we' could do other things instead. Which I took to mean him laying there while I perform certain acts. No way.
Also compliants that we don't hug. Yes I avoid hugs as hands grope.
If any of this content is inappropriate, lovely moderators, please adjust it. Thanks.
A relief to put this out there. It normally runs so nicely and pleasantly here, I forget it is due to our program guidelines that i use.
AH is daily drinker. So basically is never sober. Even when not physically drinking, his brain and thinking patterns are being affected by it. I am writing this to get it clear in my mind. I still, stupidly, sometimes expect him to think and act like a normal person.
I am in need of kindness please. Feel crushed.
I know it is an A doing what an A does but it was painful.
((Calm Lady)) I am sorry that you are feeling low and so glad that you came here and shared. This disease is indeed destructive to intimate relationships and once I stopped pretending I too experienced the same responses.
ODAT, trusting HP gratitude and asset lists helped me to become centered again.
Positive thoughts on the way
(((Calm Lady))) - I can tell you that as a double-winner, I have absolutely no interest in have relations with anyone that smells of booze, let alone is under the influence. It is almost more appalling to be than body odor - and I honestly don't know if it's because of sobriety or just because.
I am sorry that you touched the stove and it was still hot. I can so relate - the conversations I think might go OK often end with me just SMH (shaking my head). I hold on tight to something I heard as a teenager - it takes two to get along and it takes two to not get along. We don't sit alone and argue/process over anything - when communication breaks down - it's not just one person's fault.
You are kind, worthy of love and loving. It's enough. Be gentle with you and do what you can to right-size yourself spiritually. For me, this is so darn necessary when I am feeling less than. I usually end up angry with me vs. anyone else as I put my trust beyond my HP and my truth.
Sending you loving (((hugs))) and positive mojo my friend! We're here for you!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
In my view, speaking the truth is not a slip. It is an act of authenticity. Expecting the A to respond with truthfulness or rationality - that is certainly unrealistic. But when I began to speak the truth calmly, instead of going along with my A's pretence that everything was just fine and dandy, I began to get my own sanity back.
I don't think there is anything wrong with stating how you feel, as long as you are doing it without expectation for change.
A lesson I'm learning well this week.
I've stood up for myself a few times and have been told I was playing the victim, I was dangerous, I was toxic etc. I've been very mindful of my words and my tone just to make sure that I don't give them any ammo, but that doesn't matter when you're dealing with people in active addiction.
The other day I had a conversation on the phone with one of my qualifiers. I made sure going in that I was soft spoken, and used soft language. I did get teary. Sitting on the couch with my snoring dog and a blanket, drinking tea.
I said a few things that I wanted to get off my chest and was told I was "lashing out". I looked at my dog snoring away in that deep, chasing animals in a dream, puppy sleep and thought "if I was truly lashing out, my dog wouldn't be asleep on my lap right now". I have to keep those kinds of things in the front of my brain when I am talking. I have started referring to them as temperature checks. A sleeping dog on my lap indicated to me that I am calm and I didn't need to believe the A when they tell me I am not.
When you try to speak up for yourself to someone in active addiction, you will get told you are 12 kinds of crazy. I've learned to accept that and translate in my head to "You are not enabling my behaviour. It is making me uncomfortable and I don't like it".
So with that in mind, I think it's perfectly reasonable to stand up for yourself if it brings YOU closure, knowing that you said what you needed to say - even though it won't be heard.
Do not expect them to care, understand or even be respectful of your feelings, it won't happen. But yes, say it for you.
Hugs CL, I hope you had a much better morning and did something for you even if it was something simple. Sending prayers and positive thoughts your way. Stating your truth quietly and calmly is ok. Forgetting the stove is hot .. Painful. A good reminder that active in drink or mind they don't get it. I needed this today. Thank you for sharing. S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Kindness is what we do sister(((((hugs))))) for you. You sound rational and the occasional relapse in behavior is understood as a part of recovering. You are right on about the presence of alcoholism with out the presence of alcohol. I learned that in my own journey under the subject titles of "Dry Drunk" and progressive illness. Don't let go of that awareness it will help your expectations and support your own recovery. Keep coming back. ((((hugs))))
We are not saints. Living with an alcoholic is too much for most of us.
From what I can tell, you have some boundaries for self care. When I gave myself permission to install boundaries, I experienced hostility. after I learned that I could say "no," people no longer had "their way" with me anymore and they wanted me to go back being the go-along-to-get-along girl.
But Al-anon told me I didn't have to let anyones REACTION to my boundaries change me, control me, stop me, or otherwise influence my decision to take care of myself.
It is a difficult situation. It wears on our hearts and minds. We see an opportunity to speak our truth, and we do it quietly and without hostility and it still blows up in our face.
I love all the ESH given on this thread. The stove is still hot. Next time maybe we can remember before we touch instead of after.
I feel your pain.
__________________
Bethany
"Folks are usually about as happy as they make their minds up to be." Abe Lincoln
When I gave myself permission to install boundaries, I experienced hostility. after I learned that I could say "no," people no longer had "their way" with me anymore and they wanted me to go back being the go-along-to-get-along girl.
Big big thank you everyone. So much support and love here. Has helped me a lot. I feel much better. Fantastic esh. I had nice long chat with my sponsor too.
I suspect what is happening is that as I work my program, I cannot CANNOT keep pretending. I am just no longer able to put a false face on. So there truth comes out. Also I CANNOT do the things I used to to smooth things along at the cost of my self esteem.
I had been quietly setting boundaries too. AH doesn't like that either. I need them for my protection.
Of course AH wants the old me back. The obliging doormat, keep the peace at any cost to my self respect person.
I am powerless over people, places and things. I am very thankful about that.
I am seeing reality a lot more. Don't like what I see. Glad I can see it though. I had an idealised vision of AH.
I am very good at detaching with love. I am back in that mode. Safest way to be.
Onwards, lovely people.
-- Edited by Calm Lady on Wednesday 9th of November 2016 03:51:22 PM
Something that had become very much my focus from my learning today is -
NO is a full sentence.
This was where I fell down. AH demanding explanations. Not that he actually wanted them, it was so he could tangle me in knots and twist what I was saying to try and guilt me into doing what he wanted.
May I state my truth here - I realise I don't like AH. There is nothing there to like. His disease means he uses people to get what he wants. He gives nothing.
Addiction made my xah a liar, cheat, thief, and a drunk. Honestly I still don't like the man he became nothing in his behavior has shown me anything is different. I hope someday I can view him with some compassion and pray for him. I have others pray because my prayers tend to goo sideways. Dear HP if there happens to be a lightening storm in that area I'm really Ok if it's in your Will to zap MCP possibly he nasty see the light in so many ways .. Apparently my sponsor told me while it's a prayer not an appropriate one for recovery .. I told her at least is graduated from the car epically exploding off a cliff .. for now he's a sick man and I choose not to have contact with him. It is what it is. And I gained a very warped sense of humor. ;)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Thank you for that, Serenity. Sadly addiction has done the same to AH. All part of the disease.
Thank you, your post is a comfort.
I find ah is 'nice' when everything is going the way he wants. But now find that I don't like this 'niceness' as it feels fake and uncomfortable. Like he is just saying what he thinks I want to hear. A trait I have used a lot in the past and work not to do now.
Being able to be honest how I feel is big step forward for me. I spent my whole life pretending that everything rosy! I also disliked my parents for similar reasons.
I can feel fakeness in my tummy now. I listen to my body. it tells the truth much as my head may try and deny it away.
Calm lady, I know just what you feel. I had to stop having sex with my AH for a few years because of his daily drinking. He couldn't do it at night so he wanted to interrupt my mornings. He couldn't keep it up so he wanted me to do it all. Oh, there was a lot that was wrong so I learned to say no and mean it. After he was without booze for a few months I initiated it again and all was well. But it wasn't fun to live in my house for those years. Lots of anger and lots of detachment. Indifference was the best I could do. I also found that I Had an idealized version of him in my head and he just wasn't that person. I was wrong for setting him up for failure in my head.
Sometimes I read posts and think, WHOA is my AH double timing me, because I could have written your OP. I bet many could. You are not alone. (And I am sorrier than sorrier that it is true, but it is.)
And the post from Calm Lady - it almost makes me wonder if I was the one who blacked out and typed that because OH my gosh that is my mindset.
My AH has to beg me for intimacy. And even then I spend the time fantasizing about someone else. The saving grace for me has been that as my AH has drunk more and more, his ability to perform has become a little irregular. At one point, when he was abusing narcotics And booze, it totally went away. As hellish as my life was, that was a nice little vacation for me. Now he's off the pills and so he wants it more. He's totally confused as to why I don't really want the smell of booze in my face, ever.
(Did I mention that I'm sitting here typing, waiting for him to pass out? And he just did. Yay! Free time for Fedora!)
(Minute later update: I just heard his big pitcher of booze fall onto the bedroom floor. Oh fun times.)
I'd also echo what maryjane said. I realized that I had a pretty picture of this guy in my head (left over from dating days when he had ambition and didn't get drunk) and he didn't turn into that guy. It is almost like him being disappointed that I didn't have another growth spurt at 30 and turn into a super model. I need to let go of that illusion that he's going to change. That's really hard.
Just yesterday we were talking and I casually pointed out that his whole family is made up of people who don't reach out to other people; that everyone has to come to them. That sometimes I get tired of being the one who initiates every conversation, every gesture. Sometimes now I just want to be still. He acknowledged that I was right, but it he also pointed out that no one was going to change, and since I'm the only one who is "good at reaching out", it should be me because, well, that's how things are. This just made me sad. I wish he (and his family) could pretend to be social but they aren't, and I really Do need to get over it. What I am trying to do NOW, however, is claim my need for "stillness". Like, "ok, I get it that you need me to be the life of the party (or whatever). But you haven't asked me how my day was in 9 years and now I think it's going to be ok with this awkward silence because that's what I've got to offer today."
Layers of my denial falling away. Yes, in am just a bit part in AHs theatre production. As I was in my mum and dads. A prop. Supporting actor. An extra. They wanted me to be Miss Smilie and happy face and full of gratitude for them!
Gosh, when it starts to fall away, it really tumbles off quickly.
I had conned myself.
Fedora, I laughed at you waiting to hear him pass out. AH in chair drinking whisky right now (5.30am here) teetering on edge of passing out. When he does, he usually drops the rest of the whisky over himself. Then there is an amusing fuss of him leaping up in shock. I just laugh inside. The old me would have rushed over to clean him up. I just sit now. Calm and cool.
I expect he had been drinking all night. I have just got up. We have a weird hand over system in the house. He finishes his drink, then goes off to bed while my day is starting.
It rather suits me.
-- Edited by Calm Lady on Thursday 10th of November 2016 12:27:46 AM
-- Edited by Calm Lady on Thursday 10th of November 2016 12:49:22 AM
"I feel it is impossible to be authentic around an A unless you want constant abuse from them."
With many A's that's certainly true. What that means is that you live a life of pretending. Or you can be your authentic self, but not be around them. What in the relationship compensates for the pretending? There must be something - it is always good to remember that we have choices.
"I feel it is impossible to be authentic around an A unless you want constant abuse from them."
With many A's that's certainly true. What that means is that you live a life of pretending. Or you can be your authentic self, but not be around them. What in the relationship compensates for the pretending? There must be something - it is always good to remember that we have choices.
Good question. We do have choices indeed. Divorce for me is not a choice that is viable at present. So I stay and I grow, I work my program to make darn sure I don't get hooked up with an A in the future. AH is my third. Which is on me and my distorted thinking and behaviours.
I realise I have never a partner I liked. It feels normal to me to dislike them. Very sick.
I have no idea what I like in other people, I am merely pulled towards dysfunction which feels like a smelly but comfy pair of slippers.
Working on this. I can now detect it and instead of mindlessly going toward it, I move away.
Im sorry the stove is still hot. I understand how it feels and we cant always be detached and it does hurt sometimes. This too shall pass and the good news you have a pretty good tool belt.
You have been working a very strong program! You are very insightful and reflective on your relationships. Be gentle with you and any slips into old ways. That is why alcoholism is so cunning- it can blindside us with no warning at all! You are doing great and I always look forward to reading your posts!
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this topic and all the replies. Very helpful and insightful. Calm Lady, I hope you have a peaceful, serene and amazing day!!! You deserve it! And thanks to all of you for your wisdom! And Serenity thanks for the laughs in regards to your prayers!!! I can so relate to those prayers!!! LOL
I don't think there is anything wrong with stating how you feel, as long as you are doing it without expectation for change. A lesson I'm learning well this week. I've stood up for myself a few times and have been told I was playing the victim, I was dangerous, I was toxic etc. I've been very mindful of my words and my tone just to make sure that I don't give them any ammo, but that doesn't matter when you're dealing with people in active addiction.
The other day I had a conversation on the phone with one of my qualifiers. I made sure going in that I was soft spoken, and used soft language. I did get teary. Sitting on the couch with my snoring dog and a blanket, drinking tea. I said a few things that I wanted to get off my chest and was told I was "lashing out". I looked at my dog snoring away in that deep, chasing animals in a dream, puppy sleep and thought "if I was truly lashing out, my dog wouldn't be asleep on my lap right now". I have to keep those kinds of things in the front of my brain when I am talking. I have started referring to them as temperature checks. A sleeping dog on my lap indicated to me that I am calm and I didn't need to believe the A when they tell me I am not. When you try to speak up for yourself to someone in active addiction, you will get told you are 12 kinds of crazy. I've learned to accept that and translate in my head to "You are not enabling my behaviour. It is making me uncomfortable and I don't like it".
So with that in mind, I think it's perfectly reasonable to stand up for yourself if it brings YOU closure, knowing that you said what you needed to say - even though it won't be heard. Do not expect them to care, understand or even be respectful of your feelings, it won't happen. But yes, say it for you.
SarahGee ~ I just love reading your posts and replies. You are so young but yet wise beyond your years! I have learned a lot from you! Thank you!
