My mother is an alcoholic as well.
I've learned through Al Anon and my step work that having any expectations of an alcoholic will only hurt me in the end.

You're not alone.

-- Edited by sarahGee on Tuesday 1st of November 2016 12:09:43 PM

I agree with SarahGee

I know for me I'm making living amends to my kids. My attitude has changed dramatically. When I do make direct amends I hate to tell you but it's about me. It's about me growing admitting facing up. All about me. It's not about pacifying anyone's long held grudge. Even our own kids have no right to sit in judgement of us. If my direct amends aren't good enough then so be it. That's on then to decide. I still get to grow from letting go of guilt and having a life that's free of past mistakes. I feel a bit for your parents. What exactly do you want from them? They are human will always make mistakes just like you.

I wrote about this not long ago. There are lots of people in and out of AA I think should apologize to me. But they don't and thinking about it too much just pisses me off and makes me sick as I think they are.

I gave up on thinking my Mother would ever make DIRECT amends to me. WHAT pissed me off is the ivory Tower she has built around herself and judges her kids as if she has earned the right by being sober so long.

I have to realize that just because I am at the place in my journey where I am willing to accept an amends, does not necessarily mean the offensive person is at a place in their journey where they are ready/willing/able to provide it.
It is far less painful for me to not obsess about past wrongs and to instead find the beauty in this present moment.

Unfortunately, the recovery world being full of recovering persons on different stages of recovery and in different levels of spiritual awakenings, I can't expect anything from anyone. My job is to get comfortable and truthful to me about me, and to be of service to others.

My mom is not an A however not the parent I felt I deserved .. She did parent the best she could with given tools. I spent a lot of money trying to make her rewrite my childhood so my present outcome was different .. That was a lot of wasted energy on my part .. Money as well lol. It's unrealistic for me to demand an apology from someone who honestly doesn't see the part they played in the dysfunction that was my childhood. Not to mention she honestly doesn't see things the way I do about my childhood. She believes still I'm the problem because I complicate everything. Maybe I do .. I haven't sorted that out .. What I do know is her approval of who I am is no longer required. I would love an apology from my xah and the hell he put the kids and I through. My kids deserve that apology even more so than I do from him. Will they ever get it?? Probably no. He also doesn't see an issue with his behavior past or present. So they will have to learn to see him where he is at and accept the apology they will never hear for their own sake. That doesn't mean they have to tolerate bad behavior from him either. Best of luck in your healing effort. Hugs s ;)

Yes. AA & Al-Anon both discuss and suggest living amends if/as wanted/desired. The amends process is for the person in recovery, not for the person who wants an amends. This might help you - http://newlifehouse.com/making-living-amends-12-step-recovery/

In theory, the first answer to your original post should have been, "No - we learn in Al-Anon that expectations lead to resentments."

No imperfect person living in an imperfect world will make any of us happy.  Happiness, forgiveness and healing come from the heart, not outside ourselves.  This is not program speak, just my own experience. 

Sportgear,
I have read through all your others posts as well as this so I think I know where you are coming from. I have seen "the program/the 12 steps" used as a club and manipulation. Remember, you are dealing with sick people and not all of them recover. They are all in some stage of recovery... and that stands for those in AA and in AlAnon. We have all been hurt.

I, too, wanted "amends" from my AH when he started AA. After a few years, after I was really pissed for not getting any, I started to think of what I would say if I ever heard the words "I'm sorry". None of the things going through my head at the time were coming from the person that I knew I was. I was so disappointed in him and his sobriety. I had the expectations that he would again be the man I married in 1971. That was my fault. I had my ideas of what he should be. And there was nothing in my power to make him that way. Oh, and by the way, it has been 16 years and neither I nor any of our 4 daughters has ever heard an "I'm sorry" from him. He was talking once about some other guy he was sponsoring and he brought up the idea of living amends, but he wasn't talking about his own family except tangentally. I didn't comment in any way to him. I, personally, don't think he should get kudos for being/doing what decent human beings are/do. The rest of us do it automatically.

I understand the disappointment you have with your parents. I don't blame you a bit for feeling the way you do. However, you have to stop knocking your head against that brick wall. It is only giving you pain. Your dad is dead and his HP will sort that one out. Your mom is stuck in her ways and she will never quit being who she is. You are powerless. You do mention that Christmas will be split in your family. Maybe your way to make you happiest is to start a new tradition. You have to decide if you want to detach from that part of your family. You are powerless over them. They are powerless over you.

Please take care of yourself.

Serenity I like that post about viewpoints. Its very true. If I don't see something I can't be sorry about it. Nor can I expect it of others. Thanks. Sportsgear, There's some good and incredibly patient people here. Who are somehow able to both accept they can't change others yet still manage to have relationships with those same unchangeable people. I'm not there anymore in terms of family. Too long a relationship. And thanks to this programme I'm OK with that. Don't be robbed of personal growth by staying stuck in your predetermined family role. Read some literature. Google acoa. Make up your own mind. Wish you all the best.

((Sportgear)) I agree," Letting go "of family is very difficult. I am pleased that you had an open mind and did obtain some insights from the Message Board . Please do keep coming back and connecting as there is help and hope.

Positive thoughts on the way

My family has not done the best they could because they fall back on detachment as a tool to avoid confrontation. Confrontation is just an aspect of lifeatures but Alanon makes you believe you are right, the other non meeting goer is always wrong so isolate from them....in my cas they ostracized my family over assumptions that were entirely wrong.

If you look.at most of the posts about detachment it's assumed the other person is the problem so you have to detach.....what if the problem is not them? In my case my family assumed me wrong but they don't have the facts and assumed the problem was alcohol and it was not. EVERYTHING to them is blamed on drinking.

I must admit I blame everything that went wrong with my family on alcoholism, not the alcoholic. I did blame the alcoholic for everything for almost 20 yrs. Then I learned that alcoholism is a family disease and so we were all effected, then I learned to look at myself and I got to see all my own shortcomings that were most likely coping mechanisms that had gone crazy. I was full of blame, criticism, anger, resentment and most of it was aimed at the alcoholic.

I didnt know i could take responsibility for myself and thats what detaching gave me, a seperate view of me, seperate from my loved ones. So if they were angry or bitter or showing any of the symptoms of alcoholism I dont have to take responsibility for how they feel or act. I am a seperate person and to be honest if you are in your fifties??, dont you think it could do you good to forgive your parents, not for them but for you. They dont really owe you anything surely, I mean my kids are in their twenties, adults and I don't feel I owe them anything really, im not living my life for them thats for sure. I love them and im in their life but its not my job to make them happy or fix out their problems or take the blame for any of their choices. I know some of where I went wrong during their childhood and Im working on making those direct amends. Im making living amends and for me that means Ive stopped harming them, I dont judge them control them, disapprove of their choices nor approve. I love them appropriately, for who they are now, or thats my goal. I have a right to a good life and Ive got the right to make choices about who I spend time with and if its people who help0 make my life better then thats what I do. The drinker in my life I have found I can actually still enjoy their company and love them but I cant be within the chaos of alcoholism for too long, it makes me sick, ie my own isms surface and i lose my serenity and peace of mind.

From here I am out....I appreciate you who ate open minded, I found my answers on the group thought process and understand my frustration and why it is I don't get this kind of thinking. Take care all. This is not for me, I am an individual with my own thoughts that have been very successful for me in life. MY family is very brainwashed and militant program people....its sad state. My mother will not be seeing us again due to detachment, her choice but I see where it comes from. Sick stuff.

I sympathize with your suffering ((Sportgear)) and I relate to you. from where I sit, some of your suffering may be caused by the thought you keep repeating over and over, "my family is torn forever."   "permanently," you say.

This is a very painful thought, my friend. I know that when I think thoughts like this, I can barely function.

But it is just a thought. Thoughts are NOT facts and yet they produce emotions that follow.  I can see you are very angry and I understand because my family is torn as well.

But you and I simply cannot KNOW that our families will look like this "forever." The truth is our families look like this JUST FOR TODAY.

Another painful thought is families SHOULD love each other... SHOULD get along.. ..SHOULD apologize.... SHOULD forgive... these thoughts are simply untrue. I know they are untrue because it is not happening. If my thoughts were true it would be happening. I have learned to question my thoughts and to stop believing everything I think.

A few years ago, my daughter detached completely from my son, she kept saying she NEVER wanted to speak to him again, she would NEVER forgive him. It went on for years.  Life went on, things changed, and suddenly my son wanted to bury the hatchet.   Yet he could not get her to forgive him. He was very upset about the situation.  Finally he just decided to act "as if" she was still in his life. He began texting her and leaving voicemails even though she was not replying at first, he was "powerless" to get her to respond.  But he did have the power to take care of himself and "act as if." Finally she did respond and today I am pleased to say that they are close again.

I have siblings.. many do not speak to one another today. I am powerless to get everyone to get along. Alcoholism is so destructive to relationships, it is too much for most of us. I personally used DETACHMENT as a way to put myself at the top of the list of "WHO NEEDS CARE."

From the looks of it, YOU have done this too. I see you have detached from your family as well.

So it appears that everyone in your family is detaching... which for an alcoholic family looks about right to me, looks exactly like my family too .. JUST FOR TODAY.

I also have military personnel in my family and know how difficult it is for them to enter back into civilian life, so far it has NOT been possible. Dealing with their PTSD... coming home to a country that appears to care less...and a family who has had their fill of the anxiety... It is very difficult for everyone.

At some point, I embraced the philosophy that we are all on separate journeys in this life, a journey to Higher Power. We are EACH responsible for how we do that as individuals. Recovery programs attempt to assist us on that journey. such programs are only made up of imperfect human beings trying their best... hopefully to get to Higher Power....

Our fellowship is not unlike some families or even churches which produce "spiritual pride" among members.... recovering can feel like finally "becoming somebody," part of having to prove we are "special" because we so desperately want to believe that we are... which is a spiritual failure our part but we didn't know what we didn't know. Good or naughty, we're all God's "kids." We are not saints. just everyone doing the best they can, all in a constant state of constant change....

and for that reason, you and I can remain ever HOPEFUL about our families... using this time to just watch ourselves and where we are expecting perfection. because only God is truly perfect. only God can heal our woundedness. God can fail in nothing.  that is an amend (which is "a change") that we, ourselves, can make.

As you know, our fellowship is for anyone who has been affected by someone else's drinking. We aren't perfect. this both frustrates me and relieves me because...... I'm not perfect either.

(((peace))) to you my friend

-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 3rd of November 2016 12:29:12 PM

That was powerful esh 2hp. It helped me. Sportsgear I hadn't realised you were the brother. I do hope you give the program a go. It's good for my own growth to get different perspectives.

If you truly want a loving relationship with your family,and can let go of the anger from the past then why not: "let it begin with you" and reach out to them .?