Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Jayla · Senior Member

Alcohol Before All

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Jayla and welcome to the MIP family and the Al-Anon Family Groups...we know where you are at and many of us have been in your shoes. I didn't worry about anonymity much cause I came to the realization that the disease was already so old or aged that people wouldn't care much as they did when the programs first started decades ago...so I went and went again and then stayed my last meeting was an hour ago and I'm glad for it being in my home town a mile from my house. Okay so the disease has you hurting and concerned and he is going to continue to drink in spite or to spite you and the kids...what are you going to do? He isn't tiptoeing around it might you consider doing the same. There are others there to help you as there are lots of us here to do the same. Please keep coming back there is so much more to learn and experience. ((((hugs)))) smile

sunmustshine · Senior Member

Jayla your post is so familiar to me. Keep reading here and posting. I don't have a ton of time for F2F meetings with work, child, and dog so this site has been a godsend. They have meetings on here too. As for your small town, does it help to remember, everyone in the room has the same issue somehow. Also I have never been to a more warm, welcoming, non judgemental place as an Alanon meeting. I've been with my AH for 20 years and was blessed about 10 years ago with the freeing realization that his disease is not my secret nor is it in my control. Who's going to judge me with these things being true? Also, I realized the secret wasn't a secret as much as I thought. When someone is always at the bar/club instead of with his family, he's let the cat out of the bag himself. I've learned so much from the experience of others here. Everyone has had my back during the hard times and helped me deal with the feelings you mention of anger and sadness. Be good to yourself. (((Hugs)))

Jazzie18 · Senior Member

Hi Jayla,

Just wanted to chime in and say I can really relate to your post. I have been with my AH for 17 years, we have two young boys (7 and 5 year old) and my AH was a functioning one (said with a wink) for many years. He was never abusive and was generally a jolly drinker until his disease kicked into high gear and I just couldn't be in denial anymore that he had a problem and it was ruining our marriage/family. I finally came into Al-anon about a year and a half ago and it has been a life savor. This website has been great but so has the meetings. I agree with Sunmustshine that you may want to look at the hometown meeting as a place where everyone in the room has the same issues....alcohol. These meetings have been so important to my recovery. Maybe there are other meetings a few towns over if you are really worried about running into someone you know. Welcome to the website and hope you come back and read more of the posts. You will see that you are certainly not alone. In addition to books, there are many webcasts on youtube and other websites that you can listen to to learn more about the disease. These were like face-to-face meetings for me at the beginning when I couldn't make it to a real one due to work, kids, ect. The ones I listened to the most were on www.therecoveryshow.com. Best wishes to you and your family.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome Jayla, As you can see you are not alone. I can readily identify with all that you are experiencing and urge you to please search out alanon face to face meetings and attend.
There is hope and help.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

I too send warm welcomes to you Jayla. I realize your fear of going to Face-to-Face (F2F) meetings....I too was concerned. However, finding the courage to go and learn and listen and grow changed me and brought me out of the isolation and shame this disease often presents to us. It is at meetings I found support and fellowship from like minded people who truly understood and listened without judgement or advice.

You are not alone - there is hope and help in recovery.

Junenine · Senior Member

(((Jayla))) you have come to the right place. i have to suggest you venture into a meeting and see what it brings you... it doesn't seem he's keeping his drinking a secret, so why should you? and even if he WAS, why should you? you are paying a price for his drinking and suffering from neglect as a result. the people in that room, from your town or elsewhere, all share similar struggles - there is anonymity, and there is commonality. you don't even have to talk - although it's often helpful, it's not required or necessary as a first step. you deserve the company and collective experience and understanding in that room. it is comforting and hope-inducing not to feel so alone. it's hard enough to deal with "keeping secrets" about a loved one's drinking when it comes to friends and family because you have to deal with their judgment - but in al-anon, it's a whole other thing. good starting place. wishing you well.

2HP · Senior Member

welcome (((friend))) you have wonderful replies already, pearls of wisdom for you to hold on to. I just want to add that I remember so well what it felt like to "believe" he was "choosing" to drink over me. That is a hellish feeling.

and an absolute illusion.

The truth is, alcoholics have an obsession and compulsion that takes over and they no longer have a "choice" to drink, they are powerless too. this is the explanation that helped me realize it was NOT PERSONAL, it had nothing to do with ME. It was about addiction. and he was merely doing what alcoholics do. they drink.

Give you and your children all the nurturing CARE you need, this is the power you do have. we pray God will take care of us... the steps taught me that I should cooperate with God.

(((peace)))

-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 27th of October 2016 09:43:47 PM

PatG1025 · Veteran Member

Welcome!

That's the problem with alcoholism, if your husband is an alcoholic, then it is not about the beer or whatever he drinks. It is about his alcoholism. He is under a compulsion to drink and has an allergy to the body that compels him to drink again once he has the first drink. Once he drinks the first drink he cannot then put it down and do something different. The only real recovery for him is no alcohol at all.

And an alcoholic does not ever want to abstain from drinking, until he gets help from AA to keep from drinking that first drink.

There is a chance that he is a heavy drinker and not an alcoholic, but even then his drinking is hurting himself and the family.

You might want to consider having a family/friend intervention for him to let him know how all of you feel about his drinking. How he is not a father, a husband or even a son to his parents. How drinking is getting in the way of everything in his life he holds dear. He does two things, drink and work. Family is out of it.

That's no way to live.

Anyway, glad you are here in Alanon. Think about the intervention and in the meantime, get healing in Alanon, you will need this support.

Lucy125 · Senior Member

I am new and I made up my own slogan. "No more secrets and lies." Only the ignorant ridicule someone with problems. I try not to be ignorant.

Mike B · Senior Member

Welcome! Nice to have you here. Some great identification here. Alcoholism is cunning, baffling and powerful. When in the grips of the disease it does become a priority but not by choice. The Alcoholic loses the ability to choose. Lack of power is his/her dilemma. I learned to get angry with the disease and not the person. This helped at times. They are ill, just like us. Fear of meetings is fairly common. I felt this way too, until someone brought to my attention, that if I was recognized in the meeting that person was there for the same reason. wink In the meantime, keep posting here. Alone we stay sick, together we recover. smile

Jayla · Senior Member

Thank you to everyone who has replied! I have read them all and even just that you said something at all makes me feel better--like I am not all alone and there actually are other people who understand this. The explanations of alcoholism are especially helpful. So many times I've wondered "how many hours does he have to keep drinking? When is it enough?" It's actually helpful to know that maybe he is not actually doing this by choice so much as that he can't stop. It's kind of hard to accept though because I guess I haven't experienced that type of compulsion. I've also wondered why does he have to stay out and drink? (He doesn't go to the bar. He drinks after work at his workplace with his friends there or at their houses.) I've wondered why can't he at least come home and drink here and be with his family? But it's because I don't drink with him right? Is that a feature of the disease that they seek out others who share it and then indulge together? A lot of times on his days off if he doesn't end up at a friend's house drinking, he goes to sleep like crazy early. I feel like he's not interested enough in our family life to even be awake for it. Because I'm not drinking with him? Does that happen to anyone else?

Jayla · Senior Member

There are two main reasons I guess I try to keep his drinking a secret. #1 is I'm afraid if my ex finds out current hubby is alcoholic I will lose custody of one of my children (the one with the ex obviously) #2 is because I've already had some disastrous divorces and it just shames me to have it be common knowledge how I've made messed up choices AGAIN. I'm sure it would not surprise anyone here when I say my previous husband was/is an abuser (domestic violence not alcohol). A friend told me my husband-picker-outer is broken and clearly she's right.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Jayla - you are not alone in the broken picker-outer. That's a common theme in our program. There is no shame in loving an alcoholic. There is no shame in leaving an alcoholic. There is no shame in staying with an alcoholic. I too was drowning in shame, guilt and remorse before Al-Anon as I thought I should have known better, should have picked better, should have....could have....

Recovery gave me the freedom to have my own journey and manage life on life's terms. Bad things happen to good people all the time - I just did not have the right tools to cope, deal and heal healthily. I instead had a distorted sense of self-worth and obsessive thinking that kept me from truly maturing and enjoying life in spite of the good, bad and ugly times.

I learned in recovery to respond instead of react. I learned in recovery that other people's actions and words are not a reflection on me. I also learned that what others do is not about me, it's about them. Lastly, I learned how to truly live life and thrive instead of just survive. All this from a free fellowship with marvelous people who truly understand my troubles, pain and experiences and help me with their own ESH....who would have thought it?

(((Hugs))) - keep coming back - you are worth it!

Mike B · Senior Member

What see said- Iamhere! smile Great stuff! wink

Jazzie18 · Senior Member

Yes As seek out other As. When my husband was drinking he would always be friends with others that drink a lot. They may not have been As but they were ready and willing to go out drinking with him. My husband was a bit different as he wouldn't stay out at night but he would drink a ton traveling home (our commuter ferry has a bar on it) and he would secretly drink more at night when either everyone was in bed or he would say he has to go outside but he would have drinks stashed in his car.

I remember finding it so hard to wrap my head around why he couldn't stop. I would take personal offense when he would try and quit and lie about not drinking when he clearly was.

I really liked what Lucy said "No more secrets and lies." . I feel like my whole life was about acting perfect when everything else in my life wasn't. I also grew up in the disease so I learned from a very early age that you put up this façade of everything being perfect to protect/enable the A which was my father. Once I got honest and really didn't make excuses for my AH that was just a turning point in my recovery. His secret was out of the bag and it was a 100 pound weight lifted off of my shoulders. I found that once I started to tell a few select friends/family, they were not judgmental but were supportive, loving and concerned for both me and my AH. I hope you at least have a few people you can talk to about what is going on as the isolation of this disease is just so crushing/suffocating. Wishing you all the best. I know how tough this on someone married to an A who has to essentially be a single parent.

-- Edited by Jazzie18 on Friday 28th of October 2016 10:41:40 AM

Junenine · Senior Member

my ABF only drinks in secret. like, in the bathroom or wherever he finds that he's out of sight. he has a lot of shame around it and has been like that for many years - the years of his openly social drinking are way behind him. plus they wouldn't drink in front of us knowing we would disapprove... for me on the rare occasions i've seen my partner with a drink in his hand i feel like he might as well be holding a gun to his head. so i think it's different for everyone, and i do believe it becomes a compulsion that is out of their control - but once they come to a place where they acknowledge it, then recovery is their responsibility (meaning, it's not ours - it's not within our power). and from what i've seen, if the A is not ready or willing to acknowledge they have a problem, nothing we do or say will further them along in that process. which can be maddening, because who wants to watch someone they love check out from life or their family and basically tank their life? i've also noticed a pattern with the sleeping (early and/or often) and heard similar stories in the rooms. i feel like it's all driven either by the desire to be more social or the desire to be sedated. all i can say is i'm learning the signs that show that the disease is active in my partner. it's been a steep and difficult learning curve with a lot of heartbreak. al-anon brings relief because everyone has experience and understanding of the phenomenon of addiction, and because it clarifies what is and is not in your power, as the partner of an A (or problem drinker on any level) to control. like my therapist said to me when i was talking about "but i can't MAKE him do these things" (like meetings, therapy, or whatever)... what i CAN do is decide whether i can live with the results of what he does or does not do. this program offers a really amazing place of wisdom without judgment. that is very hard to find around the topic of addiction, i think. people love to judge and demonize the addict, but those of us who love them come to the whole thing with a more nuanced point of view. that's not to say some situations are untenable or abusive and must be left behind, but as a whole, it's on each of us individually to decide what is or is not something we can live with in our lives.

-- Edited by Junenine on Friday 28th of October 2016 02:58:15 PM

Jayla · Senior Member

Iamhere said: I too was drowning in shame, guilt and remorse before Al-Anon as I thought I should have known better, should have picked better, should have....could have.... You nailed it right there! I think I will try to get to a F2F meeting somewhere if not in my town, then somewhere else. This board has already taught me so much. When I first started reading I was like "Why would I need to do the 12 Steps? I'm not the addict!" But it's because something inside me is broken right (probably from growing up in an abusive home)? And whatever that thing is it makes me pick out an abuser (in the past) and now an alcoholic to be with. And that thing needs to be fixed so I can quit doing this to myself.

Jayla · Senior Member

Thank you Jazzie. Sounds like we have some things in common.

Jayla · Senior Member

Junenine unfortunately my A is not ready to recover. He admits that he is an A but does not see this as a problem because he still works and generally does what he needs to do. His behavior toward me is deteriorating though (not abusive but rude and disrespectful). But it's all my fault. He tells me what I'm thinking (because he thinks he knows my thoughts!) and then argues with me about it! I have no say in the discussion no matter what I say. I don't harp on him about drinking bc I know he won't quit drinking for me or anyone. I have mentioned how he talks to me but that discussion goes nowhere fast. It will have to be a life change that HE wants (really it's like that for any life change isn't it).

Jayla · Senior Member

Junenine unfortunately my A is not ready to recover. He admits that he is an A but does not see this as a problem because he still works and generally does what he needs to do. His behavior toward me is deteriorating though (not abusive but rude and disrespectful). But it's all my fault. He tells me what I'm thinking (because he thinks he knows my thoughts!) and then argues with me about it! I have no say in the discussion no matter what I say. I don't harp on him about drinking bc I know he won't quit drinking for me or anyone. I have mentioned how he talks to me but that discussion goes nowhere fast. It will have to be a life change that HE wants (really it's like that for any life change isn't it).

Junenine · Senior Member

Jayla, i understand. it's maddening to watch and be on the receiving end of such treatment. still figuring out where i stand with it all myself. meetings and this forum have helped me feel less isolated with the many problems generated by my partner's addiction and his (and my!) behavior around it. and yes, he has to want it because we have no power to make a change or a decision for another person. all we can do is make decisions about our own lives. (((Jayla)))

Green and Gold · Newbie

I am in the same position as layla, my husband doesn't accept he is an alcoholic, he says he is bored, depressed, he has drank every day of our marriage, he thinks because he doesn't drink spirits, or in the house then he isn't an alcoholic. He just wants me to leave him to it, so I have tried ignoring him and letting him make his own mistakes, but this doesn't seem to work either, after a few weeks he has another meltdown saying he doesn't want to be here and claiming to hear voices, all this is said when drunk mind you. Then the next day when I'm beside myself with worry he claims to have no knowledge of saying it and insists he's fine. I don't know what to do any more, I'm exhausted, resentful and unhappy.

Green and Gold · Newbie

I hope I've not committed a forum faux pas by using the wrong terminology, I'm still working out what AH and other abbreviations mean. Also I'm English and am not familiar with some of the phrases terms used.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome Green and Gold You did not make any mistakes in posting . Keep coming back there is a post at the top of this page with" Frequently asked questions" that might help

Here is the link http://alanon.activeboard.com/t13820090/frequently-asked-questions/

Green and Gold · Newbie

Thanks hot rod. I need some advice on consequences, my AH...see getting the hang already...and I were/are due to go away on the 28th Dec, we recently cancelled a holiday in November due to him being more out of control than usual. Now we're in the same place again, I know he wants to go, but he's been so completely vile recently that I'm not sure I can let the resentment go, I also feel like he still gets a "reward" even though he has been horrible. Do I go away with him? He promised to stop drinking until we went away, then engineered a huge incident which then gave him an excuse to go drinking again. I just can't imagine being in a foreign country with him when I struggle to be in the same room with him at the moment.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

G&G we do not give advise in alanon but do share our own experience , strength and hope with each other. If you have alanon face to face meetings in your community, I would suggest that you attend, pick up some literature ans learn a few new tools to live by. Then you might be able to decide to go because you need to get away. If you decide to go you need to accept that alcoholism is a chronic progressive disease over which we are powerless. and that being powerless over his actions means that the only power you have is over your own self and your responses.
Pray about it and keep coming back here as well

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Lynn there Is no greater devious and cunning and powerful thing than this disease...when you're not paying attention to it for any reason it is working overtime for ways to get the next drink. It is described in part by the American Medical Association as a "compulsion of the mind and allergy of the body". It will even work for the next drink when the body is screaming "No!! leave me alone...it hurts too badly". Alcohol is anesthetic and if it wasn't the pain of being alcoholic might have ended much misery long ago and then it doesn't happen the way I learned it in college or the bars. Keep coming back sister and keep participating. ((((Hugs)))) smile

Green and Gold · Newbie

I have been trying to find a UK equivalent of this board but cannot seem to find one, I know the problems we share are universal but I do feel the relationship we have with alcohol and our drinking culture is somewhat different in England, I'm not sure the spiritual aspect will work for me, however the support you give each other is amazing and the strength you seem to get from some HP is lovely but I don't see myself benefiting somehow. I suppose I'm after more practical coping skills, rather than relying on a Higher Power to guide me, that may well come, in time, but for now I need help before I go mad.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Green and Gold - welcome to MIP. We are world-wide here on MIP - many from UK as well as beyond there. This disease doesn't discriminate and many are affected....I understand some of the terminology varies from region/country to region/country but we do our best to share ESH (Experience Strength & Hope) to help each other recover from the affects of the disease.

Keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery!

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene