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Well my husband is 22 days sober today and I am not making it easy on him. I was feeling very sorry for myself yesterday and let it all come out on my AH. If you go and read my bio it will explain all that I let out. The day started out upsetting for me and so I sent him an email and he didn't respond. I told him when my conference was so he could come and talk to me. He did show up. He doesn't share emotions or talk to me about what is going on with him ever, but he seemed to open up a little and it made a big impact on me that he came. The fact that he came showed he cared. I felt like our conversation was getting somewhere. I love him so much and want to feel loved by him. Last night we had an even better talk and I was feeling like I was getting somewhere. He fell asleep during our conversation which made me mad. I went and slept in the other room and when I got up today he hadn't even noticed that I didn't sleep in our bed last night. Needless to say I was infuriated because I felt that everything we had talked about meant nothing to him at that point.
The big topic for me was intimacy. He used to hold me every night and always commented on how he couldn't sleep unless I was in bed with him. He used to beg me to stay sleeping a little longer so he could hold me longer. He barely even looks at me these days. After having this talk with him he didn't even know I didn't sleep in the same bed. I was enraged and couldn't control myself and told him to draw up our divorce papers because I was done. He told me that I was crazy. He went about his business as if he didn't care anymore either. I yelled and I screamed like a child throwing a tantrum just to get some sort of emotion out of him. There was nothing. I shouldn't have yelled and screamed and the only way I can account for it is because I wasn't feeling heard. I know he is a newly sober and he is just trying to hang on, but I am too. I shouldn't have yelled and I am so sorry that I did and I am horrified that my girls heard me yelling once again. I apologized to them and they said it was fine because they are used to it. I feel like a horrible mother and wife.
I am feeling so alone and sad, frustrated and alone, scared and alone, unloved and alone, no ones priority and alone, undesirable and alone. I am going through recovery too and I am always the one that has to take care of everyone else and no one ever takes care of me. I cant ask my husband for help because he is doing all he can to keep himself together each day. He cries all the time and is depressed......He cries all the time and is depressed and I was yelling at him this morning and I just made it worst. I guess everyone else is allowed to make mistakes and I am not. I know we love each other, but is it enough? I made an appointment to go to our marriage counselor, but it wont be until next week, if we last that long. It will be nice to go to the counselor for the first time without having any lies hanging over the session. She thought that he wasn't drinking when he was. He isn't drinking now. He is to the point that he says he will not drink because he wouldn't give me the satisfaction. Whatever it takes, right? He hates me. We don't trust each other for so many reasons and I don't even know what to do every day. He wakes up with a purpose which isn't drinking. I wake up wondering how my life got this way. I should be working right now, but I dont have the desire. I keep calling him and apologizing for the way I acted and he says he forgives me. However, I think he hates me.
-- Edited by CEH on Tuesday 13th of September 2016 11:31:43 AM
-- Edited by CEH on Tuesday 13th of September 2016 11:33:59 AM
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Crystal
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. ~Mahatma Gandhi
We become very reactive when we've had a lot of pain I'm sure it's happened to all of us. It doesn't get us anywhere, but it's part of the picture. I would suggest getting to an Al-Anon meeting. You will find many people there who know exactly what it's like. We need a lot of care, but our newly sober A's are barely keeping themselves together, let alone us. Nevertheless you deserve support. I hope you'll look up your local meeting. Take care of yourself. Hugs.
First of all, you are not a horrible wife and mother. You are someone who has been affected by the family disease of alcoholism. It is almost impossible for anyone to cope alone with all of the emotions and situations that rise up. Hopefully your husband will seek support for himself. In the meantime I urge you to try to find an Al-anon meeting in your area . There is people there who understand and have been through very similar situations. When I find myself trying to apologize over and over again and I am unwilling to accept the other persons words that they forgive me its not about them forgiving me its because I have not been able to forgive myself. During those times I find it helpful to take a step back, read al-anon literature, do something for myself like yoga, read a book, go for a walk or sometimes just a nap and always asking my hp to help me . Be gentle with yourself.
(((((CEH))))) you are what is referred to as a "Newbie" and that simply means new to all of the subject of Alcoholism, The Family disease. It is insane until it becomes funny and we find ourselves laughing at how we use to think and act prior to finding our program. This disease is a monster and often not quite as monstrous as we are.
He actually was working your program by not reacting to you and your outbursts and it pissed you off just like they get when the shoe is on the other foot.
Sad you had the reaction or as I have learned to think of it; the lesson. You did great with the apologies and the children so do your inventory of the whole thing start to present and see your growth and areas of need. (((((hugs)))))
I've always said that this disease brings out the worst in people - what many don't realize is it applies to both the Alcoholic and the Al-Anoner. The disease sucks us all in, affects our emotions, our thinking, our souls and our sanity. We want change but we fear changing. We want them to see us change and they are focused on trying to make their own changes. Recovery together is very, very difficult and in my program, my sponsor suggested I keep focusing on what is working/good instead of what is broken/not so good.
I love PAUSE. This small but might word has kept me from reacting over and over and over again. If I just pause, say a quick prayer and try to see what's in front of me, and trust my HP, I can often see the human element that I missed for so, so long. It is a process and the only way to stop obsessing over what we think should be vs. what reality is to work the program. No short cuts, no skipping steps, no half-measures - work the program.
Because those I lived with were affected by the same disease, and had their own hurt feelings, pain and insanity I found that processing with trusted program friends or sponsor worked much better than trying to process with my AH or my A Sons. It seems strange and is not 'normal' based on what I projected marriage/family to be like but I've decided normal is very over-rated. For me, the goal was peace of mind and serenity not being understood or heard by those who just can't understand or hear me.
Allowing them to process their own pain and grow in their own way while doing the same brought about a ton of understanding and peace. We do NOT drudge up the past in my home. Hurt feelings and past events that were harmful or hurtful will never be resolved in a 'normal' manner - discussion, communication and/or agreement/compromise. I've been able to accept that and learn from it and grow from it. It is not anything I expected - I was the analytical one who always needed the facts, the answers and the resolution. I no longer need this. I can literally let go and let God and be satisfied in the here/now - without answers.
It's freeing to grow/change in the program. I can look at my husband and smile freely with no resentments. I no longer blame him or the disease for how my life turned out. I no longer fear if/when he will die and whether it will be from this disease or another way. The program has given me the gift of accepting all of us as imperfect humans doing the best we can in the moment.
So - the program would suggest what Jerry says - inventory the situation to learn from it. You've already written about it here and made amends. You are not a bad mom or a bad wife - you had a bad reaction to a damaging, deadly disease. We have all been there and we have all learned from it and come out on the other side. Before recovery, I would have done exactly what you did, and quite frankly probably been proud of it, felt like I 'won' and continued it for days justifying my actions the entire time in my mind.
It's always about progress and not perfection. Be gentle with you and find some meetings. All of what we say will have so much more meaning when you have local resources to tap into. (((Hugs))) - keep coming back!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
*(((CEH)) You are not alone If you were working the Steps you would understand that you have just completed a very powerful Step 10 None of usever become perfect so that we doneed to examine our behavior, own it and attempt to change what see find that is destructives Keep coming back New tools will help yu tremendously .
Thank you so much for your insights, encouragement, and suggestions. I have read and reread your posts and I know I have a lot to learn. First I need to get into these 12 steps I keep hearing about. I have read what they are, but I am going to get a book to really understand on a deeper level. As yesterday started out bad last night ended wonderfully. My AH and I were able to just watch TV and hold hands and not talk about alcohol. I think we have focused so much on it I didn't know how not to. We are learning how to be together without alcohol and this will be his 23rd day sober. I am so proud of him. I am going to make sure that I concentrate on the positives. Today my positive is I woke up to a beautiful family and a husband that loves me. We had a great morning together. No yelling, no anger, just the girls laughing and us being good to each other. I am very happy today. I found a meeting in my area, but they only meet on Mondays. I will go next Monday. I can't find a Al-Anonteen meeting in my area only one that is an hour away. My girls are so busy there is no way to get them there. Do any of you have any suggestions on online AnAnonteen supports?
Thank you all!!
Crystal
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Crystal
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. ~Mahatma Gandhi
Your post brings to mind an old memory of the very first suggestion from my sponsor, she told me to start a GOD BOX. I remember my initial thinking; this is incredibly childish. But I did it. (My God Box is a re-purposed Gift Box that I keep under my bed.) My sponsor knew I was like a wound-up toy running in every direction because of all the fear, fear, fear... I needed to "do" something...
She told me to write down on a piece of paper "Our Marriage" and put it in the box... And to write down everything else I was afraid of and just put it in the box. Putting it in the box is an ACTION of handing it over to God and letting God deal with it....
I handed over My Husband, His Drinking, The Future, etc. etc. To my great surprise, this exercise brought a great deal of relief, I was finally able to get some sleep.
I learned this, God wants to help me. But I have to let Him. I have to trust Him. I am powerless but God is not so I have to turn to where the power is.
Whenever you find yourself saying, "I hope he sticks to his recovery"... turn it on yourself, "I hope I stick to my recovery...."
And put him in your God Box, again and again. God can handle it (((peace)))
Alateen is part of the Al-Anon Family Groups so if there are no Alateen meetings available, as long as they can mind meeting behavior they can sit in on the groups. I have a sponsee who use to bring his two kids into our Wed. Night Turning Point AFG where they would just sit and listen or do their homework or comfort him at the discussion table. The character of the father and the children today years later is so awesome to witness even when knowing that their mother is still deeply entrenched in her addiction experiencing courts and prison and all of the other unacceptable issues which come with it. I will not expand on what he is going thru as each of us have similar experiences hopefully including our own recoveries. It's amazing that you have come and stayed and listened and learned. ((((hugs))))
This post hits so close to home for me. I also feel alone in my wife's recovery. I feel that way because I see her being intimate with people who understand the alcoholic side of her and we are not as intimate as I had hoped. I know it is my issue but I am jealous that I can't share certain experiences with her.
I also found some messages from her to a guy in rehab. She referred to herself as a Cougar and said to him, "I don't know how you do it. I'm not talking about your good looks but your optimism." It was mostly an innocent conversation but there was a hint of flirtation there and it hurts because I know that she's shared things with these people she will never share with me (and because of her history with infidelity which may or may not be a result of her drinking). I sent her a text in the middle of the night telling her I know it was mostly innocent but it hurts. I did it that way because I didn't want yet another argument. I just wanted her to know how it made me feel.
I have also gotten mad on a few occasions and I feel that I am not offered the opportunity to make mistakes. After years of her doing all the things alcoholics do (lie, cheat, drive drunk with our child, ignore her family, etc.) I feel like I deserve some room to make my own mistakes too.
I don't have a lot of advice because I am so new to this but I will learn from the responses to your post. Hang in there.
Jerry, thanks so much! I will talk to my girls and see if they would like to go with me after I go to the first one. My girls a retirement extremely intelligent and mature they are 17, 16, and two 14 year old olds and I think it would be good for them to choose what they would like to do. Thank you.
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Crystal
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. ~Mahatma Gandhi
CH_Husband_Dad,
I understand completely. I read my AH's posts and responses to others that have gone through what he has gone through and I find myself jealous and extremely uncomfortable when women post and encourage him because I not only don't trust him, but I know that they can give him something I can't. They can connect and support him because they have walked the same road and over came. He is emotionally closed off to me, but I am afraid he is going to emotionally open up to another and find the comfort and solace within someone else instead of me. I am here, but he doesn't want to talk to me. I understand his need to talk to someone else because we have been through so much. So so so much. I will be watching your posts as well to find answers from others. I feel like we are already friends. ((Hugs)).
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Crystal
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. ~Mahatma Gandhi
You really don't want to be is sponsor or therapist. Ideally you both get healthier and maybe have a shot at a marriage with shared joy and freedom rather than wanting to bond over suffering and fear/insecurity.
CH_Husband_Dad, I understand completely. I read my AH's posts and responses to others that have gone through what he has gone through and I find myself jealous and extremely uncomfortable when women post and encourage him because I not only don't trust him, but I know that they can give him something I can't. They can connect and support him because they have walked the same road and over came. He is emotionally closed off to me, but I am afraid he is going to emotionally open up to another and find the comfort and solace within someone else instead of me. I am here, but he doesn't want to talk to me. I understand his need to talk to someone else because we have been through so much. So so so much. I will be watching your posts as well to find answers from others. I feel like we are already friends. ((Hugs)).
Wow, you get it 100%. I think both of us would be more open to our spouses getting the support they need from others if they would just open up to us as well. It doesn't even have to be in the same way. For me, I would just like her initiating an "I love you" every once in a while or giving me a massage every once in a while instead of it always being the other way around.
One funny thing is that while my wife was in rehab, we had a short family counseling session. I was so happy with how well my wife was doing and I was so sure that we would have the same relationship we had years ago that I really didn't have anything to discuss. I thought the hard part was over. Boy was I wrong!
I should have known when I drove with my son 3 hours to be there and she sent us on our way about 2 hours before visiting time ended. I told her the next time I talked to her that that was a really insensitive thing to do. It was kind of a sign of things to come.
You are correct on that. However, isn't a marriage a partnership of love and sharing. I don't want to be his therapist or want to bond over the suffering and hardship. I think we have gone through those things already and that didn't bond us that broke us apart. I would like to bond over the recovery and good times. I would like to be the one that he opens up to about the good stuff. His slogan is "Didn't drink yesterday and not gonna drink today". He shared the good stuff and everyone was super supportive. I understand not sharing the bad and how bad a day was, but if he shared that I could show some compassion. I don't want to start making other norms in our relationship where our habit is to pretend everything is fine when it isn't. I want to be the person that he can look back at and say I am so glad she was in my life to help me through this tough time, considering she was with me through the bad and horrible times. I worry that he is going to find someone that he is sharing all the good stuff with and that is what he will associate them with (the good stuff) and since he isn't sharing the good stuff with me or talking to me at all he will always associate the bad times with me and not the recovery.
Crystal
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Crystal
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. ~Mahatma Gandhi
((Crystal)) We really are powerless over people, places and things It is impossible to predict what a person will remember and associate with events. I found that it was important to examine my motives, and to act on my principles of treating each person with compassion, respect and empathy, then I knew my efforts were of some value.
When my hubby attained sobriety he said he did not remember the last 2 years of our marriage(convenient for him -- unfortunately I did!!!). His sponsor was invaluable to his recovery and my sponsor was my rock. I could not save him but I could love him (after working the alanon program and that was enough).
When he was sick and unable to attend meetings they brought the meetings to our home and how grateful I was for that effort. I believe that we walk side by side in life sharing all the pain and joy but one person cannot be our sole survival tool.
As an aside and on the same subject of people remembering events-- My son, when he all was grown up told me that he held several deep resentments toward me They were: I did not tell him he was Irish and so the class laughed when he did not know what Irish meant in Kindergarten and that I told him there was a Santa Claus-- He told his friends" MY mommy said there is a Santa and she does not lie " this was First Grade
I feelt terrible when I heard this and was completely stumped by these as there were many events that I could remember that might have caused him to be angry with me Who would have singled out these very innocent ones out ? Everyone processes life differently so that accepting powerlessness over people is very freeing
I understand that too. I just like it when I get those simple things as well. I am getting those things back now. He told me he loved me today and is starting to hold my hand again. He is really trying. I was scared the day before because in the past whenever I was nice to him he was horrible to me. He would punish me in anyway he could. We seemed to do that to each other a lot. When he was being good to me I wasn't good to him. It is childish and ridiculous that we are grown people acting like children. I hope a lot of that is behind us, but I am sure it isn't. I am happy today and that is what matters today.
CH, you have to keep going to counseling. I remember starting counseling and feeling like there was a light at the end of the tunnel and when we would quit going it got really bad again. We really didn't know how to communicate and still don't, but we are still going to counseling and figuring it all out. I don't have any of this figured out, but I do know that you can't get the answers if you aren't asking the questions. If your session went really well then maybe she feels more comfortable in that sort of a setting. I know I did and do. I like going to counseling because I can say whatever I am feeling and thinking and it doesn't end up in a huge fight or more resentment because we work though things and are at a good place when we leave. I know he usually feels attacked when I talk to him and rightfully so because of my approach. I don't think my message is always the problem, it is usually my delivery and I told him that the other day. I am going to work on my delivery.
I can't imagine going through all this with a special needs child. I have so much guilt with what we have put our girls through. I want them to get counseling and at least do Al-Anon Teen online, but two of them already said they didn't want to. I know your child is feeling all of what you are and then some.
Did your wife ever tell you why she had you leave early when you went to see her? I know one thing I always do is think that everything that my AH does has to do with me and a lot of the times I find out later that it didn't. There might have been a good reason even though it still might hurt. Another thing I know is that when I find out it wasn't about me I get upset because once again it wasn't about me and he didn't care about my feelings. I am sure he thinks I am crazy. I am so sorry you are where you are right now. I decided to start concentrating on the good things. Are there any good things that you can concentrate on today? I know one good thing is you have all of us and we are here for you. ((Hugs)).
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Crystal
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. ~Mahatma Gandhi
In early recovery, I was on the phone with my sponsor and she interrupted me while I was talking. She shocked me by saying
"stop. stop. stop. stop. stop."
I have shared this many times at the Al-Anon tables, banging my hand on the table just like my sponsor did. Everyone understood because this is what we do. Many thanked me later because it helped them too.
It was explained to me that while the alcoholic had a drinking problem, I had a thinking problem. I had to stop thinking so much because over-thinking causes further suffering, for me, yes, but also for my loved ones. Once I'd get started, I could not get out of my head, it was like picking up speed on the highway ramp... and then, I project all my fears and insecurities onto my loved ones, like rapid-fire, causing much suffering. I just could not stop. Not until someone said, stop.
Al-Anon taught me to stop letting my frightened mind control my life. I had to take action. I had to join my real friends in Al-Anon where I saw with my own eyes, how this stuff really works. I invite you to do the same because you are not at ease, sweetie, and your life is too precious to be taken over by this dis-ease (((peace)))
I can't imagine going through all this with a special needs child. I have so much guilt with what we have put our girls through. I want them to get counseling and at least do Al-Anon Teen online, but two of them already said they didn't want to. I know your child is feeling all of what you are and then some.
Did your wife ever tell you why she had you leave early when you went to see her? I know one thing I always do is think that everything that my AH does has to do with me and a lot of the times I find out later that it didn't. There might have been a good reason even though it still might hurt. Another thing I know is that when I find out it wasn't about me I get upset because once again it wasn't about me and he didn't care about my feelings. I am sure he thinks I am crazy. I am so sorry you are where you are right now. I decided to start concentrating on the good things. Are there any good things that you can concentrate on today? I know one good thing is you have all of us and we are here for you. ((Hugs)).
It's a mixed bag with my son. He is not in tune with other's emotions. If we yell in front of him he laughs hysterically because we're being all animated and funny. However, I know that he understands more than we know.
My wife said that she wanted us to get on the road because we had a long drive. I tried to convince her that we wanted to stay but when it was clear she didn't want us there we left. She did say she wanted to unwind before Sunday evening sessions so she admitted it wasn't all about a concern for our drive. I could tell that our child was wearing on her. He can be very hyper and is a runner. She had had a few weeks without having to chase him around constantly and I think she wanted to get back to her temporary life without having to deal with the stresses of having a child with special needs. The cynic in my thinks she wanted to get back to her BFF's.
-- Edited by CH_Husband_Dad on Thursday 15th of September 2016 03:20:32 PM
Eventually the focus must be taken off the alcoholic andplaced upon ourselves because this is where we have the power to affect change;.
I found that it really did not matter what the alcoholic said or did that mattered it was what I said and did that counted. Meetings, steps, sponsor all helped in that process.
I once drove a couple hours away to visit my son in a rehab. I was there 10 minutes and he asked me to leave. There had been no conflict, no nastiness, nothing really - we barely had time to talk about anything. I left very hurt and angry (before Al-Anon). When HE was able to express himself, he explained to me that he'd been nervous, anxious and overwhelmed for the meeting to the point he had not slept hardly the night before and felt sleepy and stressed when I was there. He made the decision to ask me to leave as he felt he was going to be unpleasant towards me. It was his attempt to protect me from his disease.
This powerful explanation was the start of my wondering why I took all things personally? His request was all about what he felt was right at the time and not about his needs or wants at all. It was my own thinking that told me he was being selfish, self-centered and dismissive. Again, for me, I realized that I too needed some support and recovery as I took this and almost everything personally. That's not a great place to be in - I was miserable and always on a perpetual pity pot.
Al-Anon helped me see that it is rarely about me and we each are doing the best we can at the time...
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Eventually the focus must be taken off the alcoholic andplaced upon ourselves because this is where we have the power to affect change;. I found that it really did not matter what the alcoholic said or did that mattered it was what I said and did that counted. Meetings, steps, sponsor all helped in that process.
I get that but what do they say about letting out frustrations? I know we have to focus on ourselves but is there a place for just letting it all out? I mean that with all seriousness.
I feel like I may be taking over a thread that is not mine. Sorry about that.
Hi Ch I do understand and have followed your difficult journey since you entered the forum.
You can certainly start a new thread and share your experience and pain Then others will post responses to your topic. The idea is that we have all experienced pain and disappointments in dealing with the disease- My son passed from this dreadful disease. Alanon offers hope and new tools to live by so that after venting, we can then pick up the tools and move forward .
