Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

CH_Husband_Dad · Veteran Member

I don't know if I can accept the selfishness of recovery

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

I do hear you Ch and so understand Remembering that we are powerless over people places and things helped me to attend alanon meetings (for my own sanity) and pick up the tools offered,

Keeping the focus on myself I learned how to define my wants and need and then take corrective action to restore my self esteem and self worth,
Please keep coming back You are worth it.

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

The way I see it, she either will go astray, or she won't. Whichever it is, it will become apparent. And what she looks like when she's working recovery hard will become apparent.

I have heard that one thing that spouses do when they have cheated, under the direction of a therapist, is let the other spouse look through their phone, etc., to be reassuring. Full transparency. That's a matter that is agreed between both spouses, or offered by the one who has cheated, because he/she understands why the other one may feel suspicious or need reassurance. Not to give the non-cheater control, but just reassurance and transparency.

It sounds like your wife is not at the point where she wants to or can fully take in the impact of her cheating. The question is whether she will get to that point. I think the answer has to be: that isn't something you can know yet. You know she hasn't gotten there. But you don't know what will happen in the future.

I understand your anger and your impatience. When the A has been self-absorbed and hurtful for a long time, sometimes we get to the stage where we just don't have any patience left. Everyone arrives at that point at a different time.

If you want to give it longer, you may want to take good care of yourself in other ways that nurture you - taking up your favorite sport again, or hiking in your favorite spot, or buying box sets of your favorite shows, or connecting with some old friends. It's good to get a break from tension in the house. And you deserve some good stuff in your life even if she can't be the one to supply much of it now.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Sounds enmeshed. Alanon: what do you need from yourself? Why focus so much of what you "need" to be happy on someone else with such a poor track record? You don't own her like property. She will either become what you want or not
Your task is to be okay with you and your life regardless.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Great post...causing me to squirm that old squirm and then making me feel sooooo grateful to having come thru it with the help of the fellowship especially the old timers. I needed to learn so much and then practice it all or else I was toast forever. I was challenged into humility and recovery practices when I wanted challenge and when I didn''t. I learned to understand I was married to two different women; my wife and my alcoholic/addict and how to behave when around either. I learned truths within my own judgements of her such as "when she drank and used she would be sexual with every Tom, Dick and Harry" and after inventory work it became "every Tom, Dick, Harry and Jerry". Yes I was one of those guys and it got me to temper my judgmental attitude.

I didn't put up with the behavior and I didn't put all the responsibility on her either. I started to learn...a lot about me and the disease and while she did get clean and sober in rehab and we acknowledged our parts in the chaos of each others lives we came to understand that we loved each other without a justification to be married together. Love became a part of our characters and not the justification to cohabit.

We are selfish in Al-Anon also. WE have to be because my enabling characteristics are out of whack...to much on the them side and not enough on my own. Early program taught me the difference between selfish and self less. Today I love my wife and at the same time don't need her to be whole. ((((Hugs)))) smile

CH_Husband_Dad · Veteran Member

pinkchip wrote:
Sounds enmeshed. Alanon: what do you need from yourself? Why focus so much of what you "need" to be happy on someone else with such a poor track record? You don't own her like property. She will either become what you want or not
Your task is to be okay with you and your life regardless.

I know I don't own her but I have a right to expect loyalty from her and I think for a time I have a right to ask her to prove her loyalty. Not forever. I never asked that from her before. I can't force her to be loyal but I can demand/expect it.

Like most people things are messy. We have a low functioning autistic child who will likely need lifelong care. We need each other if for no other reason than to help with the child.

I don't know if being okay with me means being okay alone. I'll be the first to admit that I can't handle being alone. When I am alone I feel isolated, meaningless, irrelevant, lesser... This flaw predates my relationship with my wife so they're not related to that. I recognize 100% that this is a serious character flaw and one I wish I could correct.

geems · Senior Member

You have come to the right place CH. Glad you could join us. Swear to you as a person who's story mirrors yours very closely alanon promises serenity. From that place of peace and health I have been able to change what I can ie how I respond to life's challenges, and leave the rest to HP. Peace brother.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

I think untreated alcoholism can bring lots of negative unhealthy behaviours. Cheating being one among many. For me it was much more important to see my own bad behaviour because it's only mine i have any control over. Once I got to know me better I saw that I had a lot of work to do and that there was only one person that I needed to trust and that's me. Building trust in me has brought me freedom because now I know I can do the right thing for myself regardless of the behaviour another person chooses. It's not about her. Never was. It's about you. Meetings and a dedicated working of this is all you need. Take your eyes off her. She's a separate person with her own path.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Okay CH... That was a hugely courageous response. Sooooo many of my problems came from my desperate fear of being alone. My relationship partners in the past knew that and so it was like a set up for them to treat me badly. Your wife knows this about you. How will she respect your "demand" if she knows you will cave because you'd rather be in in a crappy relationship with her than truly demand respect and honesty to the point you will enforce your boundaries? I did get over my fear of being alone. I did it through focusing on me, my hobbies, my career, my health, my fitness, and my recovery. So the best thing you can do it take care of you and develop as rich and full a life where you havr happiness coming from multiple areas. She will lose her codependent power over you and know you mean business cuz you got other stuff going on and you really will move on without her if she doesnt start mirroring the same attitudes and recovery. Your special needs daughter is a challenge, but feeling so low, betrayed, needy and afraid makes taking care of her harder I bet. When you invest time and energy into healing yourself, bettering your esteem...boundaries will emerge for your happiness and serenity. Odds are oddly better she will shape up if she truly sees you getting healthy and gets the message that you are moving forward with or without her.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

CH - For me, to find any joy and peace in the midst of all the uncertainty of the disease, I truly had to stay present in each day. Early recovery out of treatment in AA is stressful, frightening and full of pressure. The urge to drink pulls hard and for so many Alcoholics, the pressure of real life is almost new again. For me, I was in an altered state of existence for years. When I had to face the world as a sober person without my substances for support, I nearly had a mental break-down. I had not had a straight day since the age of 13. So - mentally and emotionally, I was 13....expected to act like an adult. It was tough and the saving grace for me was daily meetings (many days, I went to 2-3) and extensive discussion with others who encouraged and reminded me many times each 24 hours that a drink would not make it/me better.

As a person in recovery for 20 years, you'd think when my sons qualified for recovery, I'd have a leg up.....not true - way so not true. I was obsessed - would they use? Would they die? Would they go (back) to jail? Would they graduate HS? Would they ......

I again almost worked myself into a tizzy resenting where they were vs. where I wanted them to be and the self-destruction they appeared to be choosing. I truly thought they could just decide to be/do better, because I got insane again from the disease. I could not do anything about any choice they made. I had to change me - my anger, my resentments, my fears, my projections and quite frankly my expectations. I quit waiting for others to change, or to recover or to treat me as I wanted to be treated. I set up boundaries, and detached from them to work on me.

I will never, ever allow anyone else to have space in my head that affects my happiness and joy. I now know that happiness is an inside job and I can be joyful in spite of what others are/are not doing. Do I still get frustrated? Yes....I do - the program gives me tools to manage that in me. Do I still get sad? Yes.....I do - the program gives me suggestions and tools for this too. Do I still grieve for the dreams I had for 'the greatest family in the history of the US? Yes.....I do - but I now believe that the best is yet to come. I do not know the final chapter of my life or their lives. I don't know what miracle will happen today, tomorrow or another day. All I know is that my life has gotten 1000% better since I began putting me first, focusing on changing me and living one day at a time with the spiritual program of Al-Anon.

If you mind wonders to her or the future or the past, say a quick prayer or repeat some slogans. Bring it back to the here/now. I had to practice this just as strongly as when I was in early recovery from substance abuse. Our 'addiction' if you will is to the alcoholic. Al-Anon helps us understand that, figure out what's best for us and then work towards those solutions that bring peace/joy to our lives. I no longer want what I want when I want it now - I focus on what I can do today, just today to have a peaceful mind.

If you feel stuck based on past choices she's made, there is no shame in seeking outside the program support. We each have different value sets - I know in my 20(s), I felt adamant that any affair would be a game-changer - boot the guy out - it's over. Now in my 50(s), I can't say that's how I would roll. It's not because I've changed my value set - it's because I have more acceptance for all humans being imperfect and living with this disease is far worse than an affair (in my home).

So - we each have to find our way. We each have to find ourselves again. The biggest reason Al-Anon suggests no major changes for 6 months is so that we can get grounded or regrounded in what we are about, what we need/want in our life and what we can/can no longer tolerate from those we love. You're in the right place - for what it's worth - I was extremely promiscuous when I was active in alcoholism. As I worked the program and grew to love myself and found my self-respect, that was a behavior I was able to leave in the past. I know there are many who think, "Once a cheater, always a cheater..." I don't - I firmly believe in the power of change and self-improvement.

You're in the right place. Choose you. Work on you - what do you have to loose? Keep coming back!

a4l · ~*Service Worker*~

It is hard. With some deep inner work and alanon, what happened for me was I started to see my ah as a person, his own person, just as I am my own person. As I admitted my flaws, forgave them and worked on them, which is ongoing, so I could allow him the same treatment. Its hard to explain....over the years my expectations got higher and tighter in direct opposition to his behaviour. The more he screwed up as I saw it, the tighter the ropes around my being felt. I demanded to the point I didn't recognise the miserable creature that was me. His behaviours were rubbing a sore point he never created. The demands of parenting are very real. The expectation it will be shared may or may not be realistic. Does this expectation help or harm you? Is there respite care available in your area? I suffered the isolation of a partners alcoholism and consequently missed out on a bunch of support services until now, and sons six early next year. Disability is hard, I've had to reinforce over and over and over again what my boy needs, down to the tone of voice people are to use with him. (He responds better to neutral tone, not harsh nor singsong.) I too expected his father to be an equal advocate for him. But realistically, its not within his capabilities. Supporting me by listening without offering solutions, following care directions, and simply holding his hand when we go out are things I have needed which he can give and freely does. Sometimes you have to start simple. It took me a very long time to truly accept my son was disabled. I don't know what's going on for your wife. It could be many things. On cheating. I was never calm about it. It sent me off to the stratosphere. Now, its a day by day thing. Expectations versus capabilities, letting go of ideologies that didn't serve me, having boundaries around important things, respecting myself and expecting it. It does all fall into place with practice, it works when we work it. We are never truly alone in this life CH. Even when it feels like we are, angels are everywhere. (However you conceive of them, some of mine have been the right people at the perfect time). Hang in there and keep coming back.

Aerin · Senior Member

IamHere... I hope one day I can feel how you feel.. putting myself first. Which seems so hard because like you CH, I feel so alone now since I left, it almost seems easier to deal with his drinking days! But I know that's not what I really want. He refused to try AA until i left. and since we are not communicating I'm not sure if he's even going. he had said he would update me but I haven't heard anything. as Iamhere said, we have to start focusing on ourselves instead. I just keep coming back here and figure at some point more and more of my recovery will stick with me.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Aerin - it's a process. I had to start really small. Before the program, my mind was perpetually consumed with thoughts of 'others'. The only exception was when I was sleeping. I woke dreading the disease and the day. I went to bed dreading the disease and the night. Looking back, I don't know that I had much of a choice any longer as the anxiety, worry and chaos/drama was affecting my health.

So - one moment at a time, one day at a time, I did small things that were different, more me focused and went to tons of meetings. As A4l suggests - my place today is a direct response to working on myself with this program.

(((Hugs))) to all...

CH_Husband_Dad · Veteran Member

Wow, what great responses. Thank you each and every one of you.

I went to a family group session yesterday. It was about 2 hours and the first of eight that we will be attending. It was amazing. I think it is going to help me a lot.

I will of course keep doing al-anon as well. I need to find the right time/group for that.

CEH · Veteran Member

CH, You and I are alike in so many ways. I am so glad you posted because I was not only able to feel some sort of comfort in the fact that I am not alone in what I am going through and how I am feeling. I also am learning from posted made toward your post. Thank you for your posts. So many on here have been here a while and I know I am saying and acting the wrong way as I am totally new to this I too. I felt so alone, but not so much anymore. ((Hugs)).

CH_Husband_Dad · Veteran Member

CEH wrote:
CH, You and I are alike in so many ways. I am so glad you posted because I was not only able to feel some sort of comfort in the fact that I am not alone in what I am going through and how I am feeling. I also am learning from posted made toward your post. Thank you for your posts. So many on here have been here a while and I know I am saying and acting the wrong way as I am totally new to this I too. I felt so alone, but not so much anymore. ((Hugs)).

Yep. I thought the same thing when I read your post about having better days.

I read your story. One thing that stuck out was that your husband's BAC was .395%. That struck a chord with me. While I was out of state for an aunt's funeral, I got a frantic call from a friend. My wife had an accident on the way to pick up my child and her BAC was .36%, .34%, and .32% on the three readings the police took. She was nearing lethal levels of alcohol and she was in a car on her way to pick up our child. (We are so lucky my son wasn't in the car because she or we would have lost custody of him.)

I was so irritated. To make matters worse, I hadn't seen my sister in 5 years or one of my brothers in 3. I had plans to spend the weekend with them. Instead I had to fly home immediately to attend to my wife.

That's one reason I was so upset after her 3 1/2 weeks in rehab. While I spent the time shuttling my son 3 hours a day, trying to work, trying to get him registered for kindergarten, taking him to his IEP meeting, etc, I just didn't feel I got the appreciated. Meanwhile, she couldn't handle four days with our child while I was at a funeral without losing her mind.

That's why I say that we deserve to be able to make some mistakes. We've earned it.

-- Edited by CH_Husband_Dad on Wednesday 14th of September 2016 08:05:57 PM

CEH · Veteran Member

Wow, yep I get it. BTW I am a special education teacher and understand your child's needs and what a huge stress that is. I am so proud of you for doing what you need to for your son. Hang in there.

gabigail · Senior Member

CH- I can so relate to the anger, lack of trust, and more than your share of the responsibility. I, like you, got REALLY angry when my A stopped drinking and went into recovery because she had checked out/ passed out most nights, so we were living separate lives. Plus, the lying (and suspecting cheating) was really hurting my trust in her. I get it!

I've found during this time to focus on my recovery. In this, I attended Alanon and still do. But I also attend CODA meetings because my issues started long before these issues of drinking were out of control, and I recognized my role, as well as my addiction/ lack of control when it came to people. I'm afraid of being alone (and have stayed in this relationship longer than I should have....mainly due to my codependency). I've found the Alanon meetings help me understand the disease better, help with support in dealing with all the phases of alcoholism, and having people who understand what I'm going through like no other. On the flip side, my CODA meetings are all about me (though I know my A also has those tendencies, too...but it's not for me to fix her). The CODA end is helping me with past issues, relationship addiction, and many characteristics that need my attention. In getting involved with the meetings and the work of recovery, I'm better able to handle things at home, especially by not dwelling on her. This has worked for me, and perhaps could be a solution for you. Keep coming back!

Link to CoDA:
Coda.org

gabigail · Senior Member

Oh, one more thing- with your child, do you have some trusted friends/ family that would be willing to help out occasionally? I've had to do this taking care of a sick A (liver failure) and it has been a lifesaver and sanity saver for me. Don't be afraid to ask (even though easier said than done!!). Hang tough!!

CH_Husband_Dad · Veteran Member

gabigail wrote:
Oh, one more thing- with your child, do you have some trusted friends/ family that would be willing to help out occasionally? I've had to do this taking care of a sick A (liver failure) and it has been a lifesaver and sanity saver for me. Don't be afraid to ask (even though easier said than done!!). Hang tough!!

We don't have anyone who would do it for free. We don't have parents or siblings in the area and my father is the only one of our parents left alive. We do hire baby sitters quite often and he's going to an Autism weekend camp this weekend so we'll have a short break. The problem is she lost her job and she made quite a lot so it's going to be a huge adjustment once her severance expires in December. If she can't find a similar job (and she might have a problem because she lost a stable government/university job) we won't be able to afford sitters or camp.

It's good to have another person who really gets what I am feeling.

-- Edited by CH_Husband_Dad on Thursday 15th of September 2016 01:37:43 PM

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

I had to accept that a 15 min coffee break with a sober alcoholic was worth more than a day with a drunk .. keep your expectations low and enjoy sobriety the marriage will take care of itself . Her meetings are what are keeping her sober try not to resent them . oh yeah and it's only September don't worry about December Louise

jitsuka · Senior Member

Hope you're OK CH_Husband_Dad, sounds like a tough situation.

My A partner ... she's nowhere near rehab, still actively drinking every day, in denial, not going to any meetings.

I know what you mean about loneliness, but quite frankly, right now - I don't care. I'd rather be entirely on my own (well, I am every night actually so it's no difference).

I 'd rather have that than the continual stress every evening of living with an A.

I have pretty much zero expectations these days. Borne from experience and realism.

CH_Husband_Dad · Veteran Member

jitsuka wrote:
Hope you're OK CH_Husband_Dad, sounds like a tough situation.

My A partner ... she's nowhere near rehab, still actively drinking every day, in denial, not going to any meetings.

I know what you mean about loneliness, but quite frankly, right now - I don't care. I'd rather be entirely on my own (well, I am every night actually so it's no difference).

I 'd rather have that than the continual stress every evening of living with an A.

I have pretty much zero expectations these days. Borne from experience and realism.

I understand where you are. I was there just a couple of months ago. Good luck.

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Abbyal - Thank you so much for posting this 'I had to accept that a 15 min coffee break with a sober alcoholic was worth more than a day with a drunk ..'

I'm going to keep that one - it is a really appropriate reminder for me as my husband learns to live without alcohol.

CH - I'm sorry that you've been through all this. I think that part of the process for me has been learning more about what I can and can not live happily with and accepting my needs and values as my own. My own happiness and self esteem matter to me above all else these days and I used to get my self-esteem from the emotional mountains that I chose to climb so it was a really a big change in my life when I refused to slog up and down those slopes anymore.

I had to learn how to honour my boundaries (what boundaries? was my first response on hearing the boundary word!!) and take good care of myself. When I didn't rest, eat well, or find enjoyment at some point in my day it felt as if I was leaving a gap in my brain that allowed space for resentments to build up - and that never ever turned out well!

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene