The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
This is going to be really long, sorry. I’m very confused at the moment – I’ve been going to Face2 face meetings for about 4 weeks(?) now and things have been better at home. He is still drinking everyday, and still drinking throughout the day at weekends and passing out, but we are not at each others throats. I’m not counting what he drinks, or asking him to go back to his alcohol counselling, or having big talks about how things can’t go on like this anymore, and he hasn’t been nasty when drunk, or aggressive – I don’t know if this is because of a change in my behaviour, or because he’s on best behaviour because I’m going to the AA groups and he doesn’t want me to “report back” what’s going on (he has no idea really what does happen there because I haven’t volunteered the information and he hasn’t asked) and that at some point this honeymoon period will end…
Any way the reason I am confused now is many fold….
1) I’m not counting what he drinks, I can’t ask him because he lies, so I have no idea how safe he is to be looking after his son, do I just have to assume that he is never safe to be looking after our 3 year old? This is going to cause immense friction, If I tell him that is what I am doing. If I don’t tell him, then I’m lying and covering up and I don’t see how that is better than before (except that I’m not obsessing over going through bins and the like to count his alcohol intake), anyone have any suggestions? we both work, some evenings he has to do a bit of childcare (1 or 2 hours) until I get home from work and if I do want some time off for myself, how the hell do I explain to him that I am taking our son to a baby-sitter even though he is sitting at home, without it ending in tears and anger? Quite apart from the fact that the only people I really know to drop him with are my A’s brother and sister in law, and that’s a whole conversation that I’m not ready for.
2) I was so filled with righteous anger before, I think it was all that held me together, the feeling that his behaviour was out of line and I was justified in wanting to scream and at times wanting to do him violence, and was waiting for him to do something, pushing him almost, that was so over my line that I could just walk out without looking back. The anger is subsiding, but nothing is filling that space, I feel like a robot, I don’t understand why I’m not happy that things aren’t quite so chaotic.
3) the f2f meetings, I don’t really understand what the rules are, what I can and can’t say – everyone is so polite (the vast majority of them are married to alcoholics who have been in recovery for a long time), I don’t feel that the rage and anger and my complete lack of compassion has a place there. I know that they are compassionate and loving and won’t judge me, but I want to swear and get all the anger out and I think this may be against the rules as they are all so calm – and talk about how they used to do/feel things a long time ago and wasn’t it silly. But these are the things I am saying and doing now, I feel like a wild crazed child wanting to shout and scream in a room full of aristocratic ladies eating cucumber sandwiches. I don’t feel like I can say all the horrible ugly things that go through my head, so I’m putting on a mask there, and I just don’t need anther one – how do I find out how to go about it?
4) I don’t know what actually to do, practically, to make me better – I am aware I’m not right, but all the slogans that people talk about as tools – they’re just words, they don’t mean anything to me, how do I put them into action? I am hopeless at this.
I'm glad you are here and have to say I really liked your post. it made me think and laugh, I have those pictures in my head sometimes too ... like the ladies eating cucumber sandwiches
i don't really have any answers but here were my thoughts as I was reading, please forgive the typos and if it'a a little confused I have to hurry to get to work, lol.
#1 I am not sure of I have no children and the thought of trying to decide when it is safe to leave them with an active A scares me. I can only imagine how difficult it is.
#2 I too have holes where anger used to be, some have been filled with other feelings some have stayed holes, some even fill back up with anger sometimes. When I feel something good inside I close myeyes and try to make it bigger (not in a psycho way) just expand, not let it be a moment but try to make it a part of me forever. Anger seems to do that on it's own, happiness is more subtle for me and needs help.
#3 I was reminded of how every generation thinks it invented sex .... well I have a Grandma so it's not a new thing. I imagine that the ladies in your meetings have felt as you do at some time ... I am not sure but maybe if you asked if anyone there would be willing to listen while you swore and vented even if it were privately?
#4 The slogans did not mean much to me at first, I felt each was good advice and could see the logic in them but they were just words. They are beginning to mean more to me now that I see how they relate to my life and my actions. It used to be that I would wake up and think I have to get through today ... now I remember that Just For Today. When I was so overwhelmed and would tell myself I can't deal with this ... now it is Let Go. Thinking in these terms allows me to make decisions about my attitude and life without having to reach high frustration levels and keep my self respect.
Hi there! I too am pretty new, so I can’t really offer much, but maybe this will be helpful.
First of all, I think you are doing the right thing. I felt that I didn’t really necessarily understand what was going on with me by attending f2f meetings, and in fact some of them I didn’t even like, but I always seemed to have more patience with the kids after going to meetings and being a person I felt better about.
As far as #1 goes, my A was abusing a drug that I could tell in my gut that he was on but sometimes just could not be sure or prove (he always denied it). Then there was an occasion where he used it excessively, drove the kids, I could easily tell and he admitted he was on it. So after much internal angst I told him I didn’t want him driving the kids anymore. It did lead to hurt and tears, it was hard to organize and implement, but I do believe it was the right thing to do to save mine and others lives, and I no longer have to worry about if he is using.
#2 – I think we get comfortable with something, even bad stuff, and it takes a while to feel comfortable with something new. I think you need to give this some time.
#3 – did you get any phone numbers at your f2f meeting? If not maybe you can ask for some. I was given some numbers but it took me a very long time to use them. But after I started it is very helpful. It is one-on-one that you get to the details, the real inside stuff, where you can let it all out and get some real honest listening and responses. It has been one of the most helpful things for me.
#4 – I think you need to be patient with yourself. It sounds to me, from you post, that you have made amazing progress already.
Well I wish you the best of luck, I think the key is to just keep the program going even if sometimes you are not sure where it is taking you.
Here are some things that have helped me since in the program.
Go face to face meeting
online meeting.
post on the board here on the site. I have gotten a lot of good feed back.
· Set up a support system. People that I can call that have helped me through good an bad times. These people do not judge me, which is very important.
Have a sponsor. Someone that I work one on one with.
Meeting schedule: meetings are in here and run approximately 90 minutes from: Monday-Friday, 9 am and 9 pm EST, Saturday: 10 am and 9 pm EST, Sunday: 10 am and 7 pm EST. Topics are selected by participants at meeting time. UK +5 hours, central -1 hour, mountain -2 hours, pacific -3 hours. Open chat all other times.
come and chat we be glad to meet you.
__________________
Hey everyone watch me grow. I go thru good & bad times. each day i am getting stronger.
I'm totally new too and have had the same questions in my head. So I'm glad to see someone else have them as well.
Have you tried different f2f meetings? I went to one where there was lots of swearing, which was a good thing for me. If you can, check out a different meeting and see if you feel more comfortable there.
last week was my first meeting and all of this week my A has been on his best behavior as well, probably for the same reasons yours has.
Also, with the practical application, I purchased The courage to change today and kind of skimmed through it. It doesn't so much TELL you what to do, but gives you plenty to think about (not just slogans). With this thinking I can look at my own actions, how they affect me, and how I can change them.
Does that help? Also, this board has been a life saver. I can read other posts, and see how that person responded or the thought process that person went through. Also the chat board has been great as well. Although I rarely say anything (don't feel I have anything to contribute at this point), I get a lot from it.
Even though these ladies seem like aristocrats, they all started out the same way as you, not knowing where to turn and finding answers within Al-Anon.
hi, I see you really working you program!Your questions are very relevant and worth thinking over.
#1. I always listen to my intuition. For me the fact that a question is there at all about the safety of your child, tells me the answer.To be honest, I would not leave my dog with the A. I am not kidding. All it takes is a door left open, a knife left out, three year olds are looking for an adventure.
If I questioned my childrens safety for one second, I would protect them, and accept the fallout what ever it was.
#2.When we do not deal with our anger, it comes out as depression. Detaching helps us with this. There is no use being mad at a disease. It does not care, in fact it loves to upset you. It loves to be in control of you. I got to where I did not respond or get mad or anything.
Kept busy in what I wanted to do. If the disease was feeling sorry for itself, angery, sad what ever, I left the room and gave it no attention. It starts giving up when you don't play anymore.
Maybe you could go exercise in another room, go for a run or walk. Take a shower. Picture it as something else other than your A. I see a wad of cancer yapping. Why get mad at that?
#3. Well you might go to our meetings here to get a feel of what goes on. Heck I have heard or read about everything in our meetings. I guess I don't believe you have to use profanity to say how you feel. We all vent in the beginning. We almost have to. We want to give a back round. After awhile we start being able to use program skills. It is all a process.
You might be surprised if you open up, that it may open some others up too. When it is your time to share, think about this, say I feel: and say how you feel. Focus on you and not the A.
#4.You crack me up! You are not hopeless at all. I am so glad you are here. It is a process, it takes as long as it takes to get it and when ya do, ya find out there is so much more to learn.
Believe me you are on your path. Just the fact you are making so many efforts to "do it right" shows this. I say the serenity prayer and put my life into it. accept the things i cannot change. Ok A is A, he is going to drive, he is going to not come home, he is going to lie....change the things I can. I can live my own life and quit waiting for him. I can take care of me by going and goofing around at a thrift shop, I can go brush my horse, I can just accept the A how he is and not have any expectations. wisdom to know the difference. hmm well I cannot handcuff A to me, I cannot make him not drive, but I can take care of me and allow the A the dignity to do whatever it is he does.
I don't want anyone watching me, trying to control me, etc. I am sure they don't either. By taking care of YOU it takes a big lift off them. Becuz believe me,no one feels as guilty as an A. So if they see you not affected by their disease, it really does help.
So pretty lady take a breath drop your heavy elbows. "Getting Them Sober" is an excellent book. Easy to read, I am not kidding, it changed my life. The more you take care of you the easier all the alanon skills will come to you.
Glad you found Al-Anon and this website. Keep coming back!!!!
About your ftf meetings. I love the image of those "proper ladies" eating their cucumber sandwiches with their pinkies sticking out! HE HE HE
I will tell you though, I have been to many meetings with those same ladies. But you know what...all of the stuff you are feeling there is a very high degree of probability that most of them felt all of the same stuff you are feeling. That's why they started going to Al-Anon in the first place.
In the beginning I did a lot of angry, emotional venting (still do on occassion!) and yes even though I try very hard to keep my language clean, sometimes the occasional off color word comes screaming out of me. No one made me write sentences or stay after the meeting to clean erasures or anything!!!!
Don't be afraid to get it out, Elf....... you need to do that for you! If you cross any group rules they will let you know, hopefully gently.....but remember two things. Al-Anon is for you...a safe place you can say what you feel where no one will judge you....and if you do cross a group "rule" and someone says something, DON'T take it too personal.
One last thing, you might be surprised what you hear back from those cucumber eating ladies after you get through venting. Newcomers can add so much energy to a group that has not seen anyone new come into it for a while.
For me that new person coming in is a hugh part of what Al-Anon is all about! Reaching out and wrapping the loving arms of Al-Anon around someone who is confused and hurting.
About the kids - I would use past actions as an indicator here. How responsible is he, usually? Does he drive while drunk, is he violent, how old are the kids ... I seldom had a problem leaving the kids with my A, mostly because they were older when he started getting really bad. Looking after an eight year old is a very different thing to looking after a two year old.
About the 'holes' where all the feeling about him used to be - for me, what happened was that I had focused all my emotion on him for so long that when I tried to focus on me, there was no 'me' to be found. I didn't know who I was, I didn't know what I felt, except as a reaction to him. Take your time wiht this, get to know yourself again - who were you before you met him? If you start doing the things you like, without reference to what the effect will be on him, good or bad, you will start to fill up with your own feelings and concerns.
About f2f - there are a couple of things you might try here. You could look around for another meeting, one with more people living with active A. But, and this is what I would suggest - when sharing at your meeting, say exactly what you have said to us. Let them know that you feel uneasy sharing the raw stuff you are going through, and see what their reaction is. You may be surprised. At our f2f , when someone new to the program comes in, we make a point of telling our own stories, (qualifying, I think they call it at AA) We find that this puts the new person at their ease a bit more - they see the raw emotion that brought us here, rather than the serene 'ladies' we now are (ha!) Your meeting may not do this, but if you showed that you needed it, I'm sure you would get some useful feedback. I would not be afraid to say anything I needed to say at a meeting - at the very wordst, you would see that this meetingis not for you, and that is useful too. As I said, I think you will be surprised, if you open up to them.
Slogans and readings. I dunno, many will look at this as almost sacrilege, but for me, it was nearly a year before I got any help at all from the daily readers, like Courage to Change. They were too much like a church service for me, empty words and platitudes. I found a lot more help in the stories of other alanons. In All Our Affairs is still my favorite book, also From Survival To Recovery, and the big book, Alanon Faces Alcoholism. Maybe you could try this stuff as your reading for the moment, and the Forum magazine is great, too. Eventually, the slogans and the daily readings will come to have more meaning - it will become part of your life, almost without you meaning it to.
In fact that is, for me, how the whole program has worked. I just kept reading, coming here, going to meetings, and eventually, I realized that I had changed. Things that seemed useless in the program to me in the first year now give me so much hope. I spent so much time at first thinking, "Yeah, but what am I supposed to DO?" and now I know - I am supposed to do what is right for me. I had to find 'me' before that made any sense. I'll admit, I don't really 'work' the program very much the way you are supposed to. Instead, I sorta bathe myself in it, and it seeps in through the pores.
As I said in my first "Newbie" post, my husband just stopped drinking a couple of weeks ago. (17 days actually).
Your post really struck me...the day before he stopped drinking, I came home from my office at 11 am to grab stuff for swimming lessons for my 4 year old. Husband pulled in from work, bombed, and sat himself down in a chair. When I saw he was drunk so early in the morning, a feeling of rage began at my feet, and worked its way up...before I knew it, I had my hands around his throat. I was so angry at everything he was doing to me and our family, I swear I could have squeezed the life out of him.
I spent lots of time over the past few years playing what I called in my head "The Dead Game". I would imagine he was dead, and I had the life insurance policy and social security. I'd get pretty elaborate with it...au pair in the guest room, being able to come and go knowing the children were taken care of so I could focus on clients...etc. I HATED him and the stupid, vacuous look on his face when he was drunk. (Every day).
The minute he said he was ready for AA, I swear the hate went away. I haven't played "The Dead Game" since he's been sober.
I'm sure there will be some kind of delayed reaction, but it seems all strong feelings have drained out of me. I don't love him anymore than I did, but I don't hate him anymore, either.
I need Al Anon because I have no tolerance for failure. I still can't believe he will succeed, but I'm hopeful.
Well I have not yet made it to a ftf meeting although my sponsor encourages me to do it. I am a veteran of many 12 step programs. I do not necessarily think ftf is easy although I think having people who can see you is helpful and building relationships helps. At the same time I am going to meetings here and would dearly love to do 90 in 90 days if it were possible. I think Al-anon has helped me in ways no other program has. At the same time this time I was "ready" for it. I went to ftf alanon many times in the past and I was not ready to surrender and I did not identify. Of course I did not identify with much then as I was terminally unique. I was also incredibly dependent on the A on many levels and not ready to admit to it.
I think anyone who has had a lot of recovery can hear a lot. One of my recovery partners is a recovering a who certain listens and gives me feedback and attention in ways other people cannot. He is aware of what life on life's terms is which is not always what we want. I need people in recovery to listen to me. I would encourage you to get a sponsor and get recovery partners, have people around who are interesed in you and your progress and who will be there for you. Of course that takes time doesn't it but you will find such people here in these rooms if you want to let them in.
