The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I have a rather personal issue I wish to address and discuss, if anyone is willing. I realize everyone is different so I will completely understand if no one has had the experience (or is willing to discuss it).
Background: My RAH of 20 + years married and 36 + years drinking (started age 10) (now sober 13 months yesterday and working a program) is doing very well in so many areas. I'm afraid he has stalled in others and is in a sort of sobriety funk that is seriously affecting his behavior and the overall feeling in our home. Mostly I believe this is related to the fact that attending meethings most days is impossible (but he does attend every day it is possible). There is no need to discuss this further, as he is literally doing all he humanly can to work and attend meetings. He says he has to and will have to forever and I am truly grateful for AA and AlAnon (and certainly for MIP).
We have had major ups and downs, which is to be expected, so these are of little concern. I also am doing my best, but I am still a miracle in progress and slip myself on occasion.
Point of my question: Our once very active, but very unfulfilling, "intimate " life is virtually nonexistent. He has little to no interest and has been like this for the entire time he has been in sobriety. I mention this and am concerned only because I feel intimacy is extremely important to marital happiness and success. I will not pretend that I was happy or interested when he was drinking, because I literally felt like a human trash can on many occasions over the last several years. I would do all I could to dissuade his interest, but we did still have intimacy. It was never forced or anything like that, but guilt played a part in my personal reactions and in my participation. Often I just wanted it to be over quickly so I could go on with my day/night and he would be satisfied. This is sad and pathetic, but honest. It was not always that way, but I am certain many of you will understand how I felt. Alcohol stinks and makes intimacy feel gross after a while (in my personal opinion).
My RAH had started to suffer with ED prior to his sobriety and I'm certain there was a physical and a psychological link to all of that (especially considering he was drinking 30+ beers per day on good days). He has been to both a psychiatrist and to a urologist to deal with the issue, but nothing really helps. Medications have not been successful and the psychological meds he has taken have made his interest much less. Before sobriety, he would paw and grab at me all the time and I HATED it, but the attention was at least something. Now there is virtually NO interest and, even if there were, there is virtually no way to accomplish the "task". I am OK with the situation most of the time, but feel very strongly that a marriage without intimacy is not a very satisfied one in the long run.
We spend a good deal of time together and seem to enjoy each other (most of the time), but I am having difficulty knowing how or what to do. Basically, do I initiate? Should I leave it alone? I know asking him about it is not a good thing (from experience). Do I talk to the doctor about it?
Please understand that I do not wish to control this area, but do wish to have some intimacy with my husband. I am certain he is ashamed and upset by his inability to perform and that he does want this part of our life back, but I also know he feels quite defeated because he seems to be getting worse and, despite doctor visits, no answers have come forth.
I do know he has not discussed this with his sponsor as he has shared that much with me. Though he has never said why, I am certain it is embarrassment and shame on his part that he can not yet openly discuss with anyone. Oh how I wish he could overcome the rest of his reservations to trust, but I feel it will be years before that happens, if he ever does. This is his burden to bear though and one over which only he and God have control so I will just leave that alone.
Otherwise, we are a typical married couple and are thankfully starting to travel some and do things we have never been able to do before. They are not the same things we used to do for enjoyment and I do miss those things, but his sobriety is more important to me than some of the things we did before that were a lot of fun and made us "feel" like a real couple.
I realize this post seems about my RAH, but it is not really. It is about me and how I feel. I feel like I am missing out on a part of marriage that makes it whole. I am not highly sexual myself (as in frequency needs and I do not enjoy more risqué behaviors), so those are not issues for me. My issue is the closeness that I feel is missing because of his insecurity and inability in this area and I am concerned (like a true AlAnon member lol) because this is causing stress on me, on him, and on the marriage in general.
After living with and loving (and hating) an A for so many years, I have finally found a place in myself and in my marriage where I am happy (mostly). It takes quite a bit of work to be sure and I have to work the program hard everyday so I can be at peace with myself. I have a lot of issues myself to deal with and I am trying very hard to concentrate on me, rather than on my A, as I am so inclined to do. I know I can survive on my own if I ever have to and can even thrive, but I choose not to. I am very glad now that we didn't go ahead with the divorce I really wanted, but I still wonder if we are so damaged inside by both of our isms that it may be too little to late for us to really find deep, satisfying love, trust, and serenity in each other.
I have a disease that may not give me a long life and I am very bad chronic pain with other physical issues. I do not look disabled to most people, but it is very obvious to those who spend time with me because I have many physical limitations and must take medications and use medical devices often. I never abuse my meds and do not drink at all (I used to drink but my health/medications do not allow it). I even honestly feel alcoholism would have been in my future if I had not stopped. I had many blackouts and certainly could not control myself when drinking). Perhaps God knew best as I had no problem giving up drinking after I saw what my H was becoming). I know (myself and through my doctors) that stress has a very serious impact on my physical health. This issue with our marital intimacy is the "elephant in the room" and is wearing away at the closeness I truly want during my last years. Any attempt to discuss it brings serious personal stress,because it is very hard to relax and just "be" when there is something too taboo for discussion with your husband.
Any ESH on this issue would be greatly appreciated, whether it relates to me and my thoughts and behaviors or to the overall issue of ED in alcoholism recovery. I will listen to any point of view and try to keep an open mind.
I do want to ask to "keep it clean" so the thread does not get pulled & so our younger readers are not exposed to more than they may be ready for.
DoingmyBest The first few years of sobriety are difficult for both partners. Re- Learning how to interact in an intimate manner, without alcohol, after years of alcohol fueled relations can be a highly charged topic.
You mention that you have a physical condition and at times in the past "merely tolerated intimacy" and your partner also has some physical limitations.
It might be time for you to be honest with him about your desires, and talk things over. There are prescriptions that can address his physical limitations and if you are interested in meeting him half way the discussion could be very beneficial .
This conversation can be held without blaming or judgment with an open mind to finding a middle ground that is acceptable to you both
I know after such a talk with my hubby we reached an agreement to be physically intimate at least once a week With one or the other initiating. It worked--- Good luck
(((DMB))) - my best experience with this subject is more from the A side vs. Al-Anon. When I first got sober, there were many 'firsts' - things I had never done without being under the influence of alcohol/substances. Each one brought about a huge amount of anxiety, fear and apprehension. Some things - riding a bike, water-skiing, playing ball, etc. came easy and gave me the courage to continue with firsts. Other things - not so much - intimacy, shooting pool (could not get my groove sober, and still can not do so well...), socializing - very, very difficult and required much more practice and effort.
So - as Betty suggests, the first few years are difficult for both and their is much more thought put into firsts. I agree a conversation might be helpful, and an honest assessment of what you truly need from him. There are also specialists who work on physical intimacy with couples - nothing wrong with seeking help from an outside party if desired.
It is a difficult subject and I believe you posted well to share your needs/wants. Hopefully others will have more ESH for you - there is always hope!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Doingmybest, your post has really hit home. All I can really say is that Alcoholism is a disease, a disease that seems to have tentacles into the A's life and into the lives of all around him. When my AH stopped drinking, he actually said "We had (HAD???) really good sex". He knew (though he denied it later) that alcohol was the only way he could have sex. So for the next 20 years, we pretty much had no intimacy. He had ED, meds didn't work, he developed a porn addiction, and was unable to acknowledge or talk about it.
I denied that it had anything to do with his still being alcoholic, even though he wasn't drinking. It was very hard on me and my image of myself. I finally had to say that sex was a part of our lives that was gone, and I had to find some way of coping with that. Thanks to my HP, I was able to shift all my passion onto my art and through that, keep my sense of self. Without my knowing it, my HP was leading me to detach.
The ESH that I have to offer is that in my case, my HP "had my back", and when AH abruptly and without warning left me for another woman (telling me they had "had sex and it was good) I was able to feel relief. (He had found a drinking buddy in her). Shock and grief, of course, but an amazing strength, that I never knew I had. Only looking back, can I see how my HP prepared me, taught me and led me.
I am not saying that things are hopeless for the two of you, but I know that I was able to put my focus elsewhere and trust my HP, even when I had no idea of the path that I was on!
Steps 1, 2 and 3...and face-to-face meetings, a sponsor - Alanon has buckets of wisdom, buckets of empathy.
I will hold you in my heart.
((DMB)) My ESH doesn't come with a ton of experience with my AH's sobriety. It's fairly new. However, I can share that we were doing a couple's devotion, that tapped on intimacy, and we had a discussion. I learned that because he had felt so much shame over poor choices he had made while drinking, he didn't truly feel desirable. He felt so much guilt, and actually wondered if I was even interested in being intimate. I realized then that I needed to take the initiative, for a while, until that feeling goes away.
I hope that helps.
I've had similar experience and we've got some work to do. In the meantime here are a few thoughts
A light chat, letting my husband know that I liked his hugs.
Getting my self esteem met by learning new skills and returning to old ones.
Acknowledging that intimacy doesn't have to mean sex - touch, shared giggles, simply learning to play again through silly games like Crazy Golf for example. It is a bit like early dating!
Acknowledging that it is ok to express a need.
Sensate Focus (google it) was v. good.
Hey DMB, nice carefully thought out share. Agreed with Iamhere, "intimacy" ((loose term) came very naturally in the days when we were drinking . Inhibitions much lower and the motions more fluid. Enter sobriety and not so much. Much anxiety, awkwardness, self conciousness, the gamut of emotions/obstacles. Our minds and bodies were young then so my husband and I fought through that emotionally and physically as our desire was strong then.
Now older, he has ED and takes a med for anxiety and high blood pressure both of which killed his drive. Thankfully, he was not willing to give up our intimate life (he=55 and I +49)
and sought ED meds until one worked. Awkward and sometimes frustrating trial and (I won't say error, but you get the picture) to figure this out. Timing is best early morning when testosterone is naturally high in men and before fatty meals are eaten- both of which make a big difference. Not to be graphic but the ED meds do not create an instant response.
"Participation" is needed to get things moving.
But that all starts with conversation, willingness to work through the tough parts of both that conversation and the fore mentioned trial and error. Intimacy in sobriety is so wonderful, nothing to cloud the intense emotional and physical feelings. He just doesn't know that yet : )
I hope you will both keep trying and I'm sure there are lots of others that will read this thread with interest. Glad you shared.
Thank you all so very very much! We have honestly discussed this issue several times and have also sought help with medications, which simply don't work for him. We have tried several and I hope he will consider trying more later.
I just miss a part that perhaps wasn't really there to begin with (I mean the ability to be truly and completely trusting of another person) like you really need when you are working through a condition like this.
At least I do not feel alone and others here have real ESH on this issue! It truly helps me so very much!
I knew I could turn to you wonderful friends for ESH.
I will continue to read any info you are willing to provide and work on "my" parts, but I honestly believe talking again on this subject is too much for him right now, so I won't push him. Perhaps time will help and he will seek his own ESH.
I honestly don't think I would feel able to deal with so many things without you wonderful, wonderful people and the kindness and love right here in MIP and AlAnon.
Emotional intimacy is such a huge issue in
Where my marriage failed. We had a very
strong marital bond, trust, faith and belief
In one another.
Somewhere it died, he stopped validating
Me and listening. That got old after awhile
Its hard to get that level of intimacy back.
The sexual aspect was not an issue for us
but the Marriage was dying slowly from
lack of Emotional connectedness. That
Included cuddling, hugging and just plain
bearing Your under belly to the each other.
Being vulnerable, walls down, being open and
loving, not being fearful, non judgemental,
Honest, forgiving, giving and receiving of
Healthy recipicol love.
As i wrote that list its all the things I am
learning in Alanon. How to be truly emotionally
Intimate myself.
im not sure if this will help, but in my case, I had lost alot of self esteem etc. I thought i was broken because i didnt feel anything for years especially after my hysterevtomy and the fact because of genetics i could not take hormones to bring those desires back. I was bullied and coerced to preform sex acts on XAH.
After left and started seeing boyfriend, realized that i wasnt broken, all my desires and joy came back to me. I realized i had stopped loving XAH a long time ago and had just hung around in a stale scary situation with him. I realized that I probally had never loved him but wanted security which i thought he could give me. So not true! i ended up taking care of him and sacrificing myself in the process
