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First post, I'm new here, but I probably should have been here years ago. I tried a few in person Al Anon meetings a few years ago but never came into contact with anyone I felt I could relate to. Maybe I'll find that here, maybe not, but if nothing else the massive wall of text I'm sure I'll be composing here in a moment is at least cathartic to put out there.
I met the woman who is now my ex-girlfriend online via a dating website in July of 2011. I was a recently divorced full time single father of two young boys (3 and 4), so online was my way to meet people. We hit it off incredibly well, she was here staying with her mother on Summer sabbatical from school in NYC where she lived. The only thing I found a bit odd was that she was always wanting to drink every evening, and some liquor that I had around the house (I barely had 1 drink a week myself, I've never been a drinker) seemed to be missing. I didn't think too much of it, I just figured she liked a drink to unwind, not knowing how much she was really drinking. She decided to stay in FL and moved in with me, getting a job and quickly becoming part of the family. Things were going well.
September 2011 is where things took a nose dive: she told me she had epilepsy and would suffer seizures from time to time, which I witnessed. She also told me that she had to go away for a 5 days to stay in a hospital for treatment. Little did naive me know, this was to go into detox and the seizures were actually alcohol induced. Sobriety lasted a few days after she got home, and she relapsed, hard, ended up having a massive seizure at her job (she was drunk), going to the hospital, and this is when the cat really came out of the bag. I was angry for being lied to, both by her and her family (who knew her problems very well but kept quiet) and I took her to treatment. She came home after 2 weeks and apologized endlessly, promise she'd be better, things I'm sure a lot of us had heard before. 3 weeks later we find out she's pregnant. With twins. At this point the choice whether to stick it out with her is made for me, I have to for these children.
She relapses again, once, in December, goes to treatment yet again, and then stays sober until two weeks after the twins are born at the end of June 2012. Thankfully they're both perfectly healthy. Two weeks later, though, she's back to drinking, and again enters treatment, once again with promises things will be better. She's staying home with the twins at this point while my older two are in school. My boy twin, I'll call him S, enters the hospital in late November for failure to thrive. Looking back now I see that it's because she was out of it most of this time while I was at work, but he wasn't gaining weight and the doctors are concerned. She stays with S in the hospital, hiding her drinking while she's there, and comes home drunk with him on Christmas Eve. This eventually leads to Child Services becoming involved, but that only lasts a few months.
Sobriety this time lasts until May of 2013, where she's drinking again and I'm feeling helpless as to what to do. In April of 2013 S is fit with a Mickey Button, essentially a feeding port in his abdomen directly connected to his stomach because he will not eat. This is the only way he is able to receive nourishment. She's baker acted by her therapist and another CPS case is opened when she's caught drunk at the hospital with S, this time with her being ordered out of the home and only allowed supervised visits with the twins. Apologies and promises once again become the norm, and by October she's allowed to come home, but still not allowed to be unsupervised with the children. She begins to use Kratom.
April 2014 this CPS case is closed and she's given unsupervised access to the children again. Almost he week the case is closed she ups the Kratom use, but with that starting to not work as much she starts ordering Herbal "happy pills" online in large quantities. From October 2013 through July 2014 she spends nearly $6,000 on these pills and various prescription drugs, primarily Xannax, from shady international sites. In July 2014 she is arrested for her first DUI, on Xannax not alcohol, and spends a few days in jail. From this point forward she is not left alone with the children at all any longer (with help from both my family and her's), something I had been fighting to do for a long time but the rights of an unwed father in Florida are flimsy at best.
August 2014 she relapses on alcohol hard and is taken to a treatment center, where she stays for a few weeks before attending outpatient for a few more weeks. October and November she's sober and then come December 2014 she has DUI #2, again on Xannax, this time running a red light and totalling the care. Through some miracle nobody is injured. At this point I'm beyond done and tell her she has to leave. She knows it's an idle threat, that I'd have to have her evicted and even that in Florida can be very hard to do. She drinks away the remainder of December, with me taking her to detox on Christmas Eve and gain on New Year's Eve. Thankfully New Year's was a more permanent thing, as she went directly from detox to a sober living facility, where she'd love until late May 2015.
Come late May 2015 she feels she doesn't need to be there any longer and simply comes home, with me protesting the whole time. She comes home on Friday, just at the beginning of the long Memorial Day weekend, and proceeds to get blitzed out of her mind no Xannax and, while out celebrating my birthday with the children at my mother's home, she trashes the house. Closets emptied, pictures off walls and broken, food all over the kitchen, the works. At that point I send her to a detox again (if for no reason other than to get her the hell out of the house) and go to a lawyer. I need to get sole custody of the twins and assert my legal paternal rights, a she's also stating that she's going to take them away. As crazy as that sounds, legally she could, even with her history, since we weren't married. I try to get things moving without the lawyer, but she's in and out of the house all of June 2015 and still expresses that she wants to take the twins, I finally file a paternity action in early July. When she's served she's angry, and a week later she files a false Domestic Violence Injunction against me, knowing full well that it would give her 100% custody of not only the twins, but my home. I, along with my two older children, then 7 and 8, had to move in with my mother for 5 weeks until we could see a judge and get the DVI thrown out as baseless. I had immediately called child protective services as soon as the DVI was filed and she was told that she had to live with her mother and that they "strongly advised" that she not be left alone unsupervised with them.
I had weekend visits with the twins during that time, and once I was back in my house and the DVI was gone I was doing everything in my power to get the legal process moving to get them back full time, but her lawyer was doing everything he could to draw things out as long as possible. I wouldn't have to wait too long, though, after her 3rd arrest in 3 weeks (one for obstruction, one for custody interference, and finally a third for batter for assaulting her mother while drunk) Child Protective Services finally involved themselves again and I had the twins back with me full time in mid October. During the shelter hearing I was finally declared the legal father of the twins (there was no objection from her), finally getting my full legal rights for them. She spent from October through mid December in jail, visited them once (supervised by her mother only at this point), and then relapsed for yet another month and missed a January court hearing before sobering up again.
So that brings us to where I am now. And wow, that was long, and even still I probably left out details. I'm now raising all four of my children by myself, she has supervised visits twice a week with the twins, and she's been sober since late January. Needless to say I'm done with her as far as a relationship goes, and that will never change. I'm far happier, and I know my older two children are. CPS will still be involved until at least August, and she's fighting tooth and nail to get the twins back. I'm honestly petrified that she'll succeed. Even with all of the above, even with her being broke and unemployed with no car without a place to live (she's in another sober living facility for the time being), even with one DUI conviction and one knocked down to reckless driving, I'm petrified that she's going to succeed. From my experiences the last few years I have zero faith in the system, a system that tries to give 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th chances to people like her.
I guess my biggest hope in posting all of this is to hear from someone who's had at least a similar situation, at least as far as custody. I look at her as a lost cause at this point, as cold as that might be. She's already claiming after a few months of sobriety again that she's a recovered alcoholic (not recovering) and no longer in any way at risk. I know there's no way that's true, but that's a fight with her that I no longer possess the energy to have. At this point I look at her as a danger to my children and I need to do whatever I can to keep them safe. She may be sober today, but there's no guarantee for tomorrow, and that's not risk I can take.
Welcome to the Boards. I do not have any experience with child custody but I am a parent of two young boys and know the sheer fear you have when dealing with an active alcoholic and trying to protect (both physically and mentally) your children. Sending you tons of positive thoughts and praying for you and your family.
Thank you for the reply, Jazzie. It helps just to hear something sometimes. It can be lonely enough being a single parent, sometimes it feels like life is just kids/work/sleep. Not that I'm complaining, I love them like nothing else. Dealing with the alcoholism on top of it though, and the repercussions of it all, can be a lot to take on.
I'm so sorry you're in this situation but glad you have found us. I hope you can find a local face-to-face group that you like too. The standard advice is to try six because they're all different. I have also found that often, we start out thinking we don't have anything in common with the other people in the room, but after a few meetings it starts to become clear that we have a lot of really important things in common despite our differences. One important thing is that the people in the rooms will understand your dilemma and your situation. Some meetings have childcare (if you call the central Al-Anon number for your city they should be able to tell you which ones).
I had a similar problem, but with only one child - but that was hair-raising enough, thinking of the idea of him being in the care of a drunk person. One thing that made me a lot more reassured was that I got a lawyer who had a lot of experience with this kind of situation and who was very reassuring. He told me to document absolutely everything, even if it was just writing down: "Saturday May 1, comes home drunk, goes to sleep in chair in living room." But having a history of being institutionalized for the drinking and all that is incredibly helpful. I would hope that a good lawyer would come to the judge armed with the statistics about relapse and the numbers of alcoholics who never recover, and the number who have DUIs and go on to re-offend, and so forth and so on. I think an excellent, well-informed, prepared lawyer is the key here. If your current lawyer is well-meaning but inexperienced on this front, it's possible that you could get a lot of good information about other local lawyers at local Al-Anon meetings (in the conversations after the meeting).
One helpful thing was that my lawyer said that I needed to set up a pattern - like, I had full custody and my ex could see our child under supervision every Sunday between 12 and 2 - and that the courts' tendency is to confirm the well-established pattern, not to change things around a whole bunch. So setting up a pattern would help get momentum toward the decision that protects your children.
What happened in my case is that my ex was intimidated by the amount of information I had, and started to back off from the claims he was trying to make. Part of them were just "You can't tell me what to do!" And part were "You can't say my drinking is a problem! I refuse to acknowledge that in any way! And you having custody would be an acknowledgement! I won't acknowledge that!" So it wasn't really that he wanted custody. He just wanted to "win" and "not be told what he could and couldn't have." Because let's face it, for an alcoholic, alcohol is their primary motivation. Taking care of kids requires organization, self-sacrifice, self-denial, exhaustion, planning ahead, and living for others instead of primarily for oneself. Alcoholics are terrible at all of that and they don't even have any of it as a goal. They may have some pipe dream of being surrounded by loving kids, but they have zero motivation to do the hard parts. So my guess is that your A doesn't really want to be signing up for any of that. She's just going for the illusion. I'm not saying she doesn't love her kids. I'm just saying that alcoholism doesn't allow anyone to take precedence to alcohol, even kids.
Anyway, my ex backed off, and we went through mediation, and that got us to an agreement. We set up visitation (by this time our child was no longer young and helpless, so I felt safer allowing some visitation), and I got it written in the agreement that I could refuse visitation if my ex was drunk, and that he could also take action if I was drunk. (There's zero chance that I will be drunk! But this provision helped him feel like he wasn't being spotlighted as a drunkard [even though he is].) Fortunately he is not the kind of person who would make false accusations about me, or that would be a risky provision.
For the first 14 years of our child's life, my ex lived one block away, so that he could come and see our child, and take him home for an afternoon, without having to drive him. I think it also helped my ex feel not excluded. But despite being an alcoholic, he is rational and non-vindictive, so such closeness wouldn't be so advisable with some alcoholics.
I have also been close to another situation where the father won custody rather than an unstable ex. So I am happy to give you these precedents to encourage you. I know this is a stressful time. I hope you can continue to get support here, and find a good local meeting. Hang in there, and take good care of yourself and your precious little ones.
Chris - welcome to MIP - glad you found us and glad that you shared your story. It shows how the progression of the disease is damaging, chaotic and so aggravating. I also did not have custody issues ever to deal with, so can't help you there. While I realize the local meetings you attended didn't click, I really encourage you to try again - maybe a different group or a different day or both. Local support through the program can certainly help you with the isolation we often feel as a result of trying to manage around the disease and the diseased.
I can relate to the chaos that you describe - I have an AH and two sons who also qualify for recovery. More than 10 treatment centers, courts, lawyers, state custody, etc. - that is a nightmare to go through. I came to Al-Anon about half-way through the worst of ours, and am so grateful I did. I truly learned that if my 3 guys (we call them qualifiers) want to self-destruct, there is not a darn thing I can do about it. It was a relief and a grieving experience all in one, but the program got me through it and to the other side.
Hopefully others who've gone through custody issues will give you some feedback. It sounds as if you love your kids tons and I applaud your efforts to keep them safe. I too will send positive thoughts and prayers for you all.
Keep coming back - you are not alone!!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Welcome Chris Thank you for reaching out and connecting. Alcoholism is indeed a dreadful disease over which we are powerless. Alanon face to face meetings can provide a huge support as you walk through these difficult days . Positive thoughts and prayers on the way.
I'm so sorry for what you have been through. I do not have experience with custody issues as I stayed in my alcoholic marriage for far too long hoping to actually protect my son from the potential fallout of emotional abuse, etc that I knew my ex would throw his way. My ex never got to the point of where she was and your story actually sounds like my sister's story with her husband's ex-wife. Almost identical actually but they are in CO and both of them are remarried. She and her husband are raising 4 children together (2 are his and 2 are hers) and his ex does not have visitation anymore over the children. It cost them tens of thousands of dollars and serious emotional turmoil for the children.
What others have said has been quite helpful. AL Anon helped me tremendously but I'm sure your schedule probably doesn't allow much free time for meetings. Keep coming back here and maybe get your hands on some books we offer. I honestly believe that Al Anon saved my life. Sending healing thoughts and prayers your way.
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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
I've had two big problems with local AlAnon groups that I've been to.
The first has been an age factor. I'm 36, not exactly young, but in the 4 to 5 groups that I can make it to in my area (this is FL after all....) I've been the youngest by at least 20 years, more often 30 to even 40 years. Everyone is either dealing with their adult children who have issues or their spouse, and it's nearly impossible to relate to. The set of problems I'm dealing with, while stemming from the same issue, are entirely different.
The second is the religion aspect. I personally have an active dislike of religion and that aspect of the meetings is impossible to overlook and get past, and it's tied into the entire program.
These things may sound minor, but it makes it very difficult for me to feel any kind of fellowship or understanding with anyone I've come in contact with.
Hi Chris That is certainly understandable To address the meeting issue we do have on line meetings here 2xs a day They are held in the chat room Here is the scheule:
Al-Anon Family Group
Meeting/Chat Room
Meetings
9 AM EST Mon-Fri
9 PM EST Mon-Sat
10 AM EST Sat & Sun
7 PM EST Sunday
As for belief in HP I believe many of us can easily identify with your experience. When I entered, I was told that it is a spiritual program and that belief in a Higher Power can be any Power that I choose. Some choose: Good orderly direction (GOD) and I choose the principles of the progam and the tools . It worked.
I would like to add that dealing with alcoholism in a child partner, or friend, the feeling are very similar and the tools are interchangeable. I have used program while interacting with a spouse, parent and child who were active in their disease and I am grateful to program for the tools.
My F2F meetings have been the same. Many of them are the children of A's or parents of adult A's. Plus, they were much older. At one meeting I attended, I felt there was a connection with one woman in a similar circumstance to me. However, she only lasted two weeks and never returned.
MIP is a wonderful solace for me, as there are so many people, with so many different situations. Yet, we can help one another with our experiences and encouragement.
Please keep coming back. Sending you hugs for peace and comfort.
I will certainly try to make one of the online meetings, it can't hurt. I feel like such a tightly wound ball of stress sometimes. I know deep down that I shouldn't still let things get to me, that I shouldn't believe the threats, but there's a part of me that just says "what if she's right....?" and that nags at me.
I am in a similar situation. My boyfriend has two daughters. Both daughters have different mothers. Even after all the hell we've been through, they are better off here than with their mothers. The youngest (5), her mother lost custody of her in 2013 due to neglect and allowing her then husband to abuse her (left handprints). She has not seen her in over 2 years. The older child (7), her mother doesn't make her a priority. She doesn't make sure she takes her medicine, bathes, feeds her, and talks about "adult things" around her that no child should here. She only goes there every other weekend.
I have been the rock holding everything together. I alone have made these girls responsible and respectful kids. I am their PARENT. I did not give birth to them, but they are my life. I would do anything for them. Their father is in rehab right now. We are keeping everything normal for the kids. "Daddy is at school right now."
Their father is a great man. But, he has made some bad decisions and I do believe he can fully recover. Its 2 weeks since he's been gone. I am new to this group as well and I can get all the support I can get.
-- Edited by bran11606 on Thursday 12th of May 2016 04:21:48 PM
Welcome to the board! Alcoholism can certainly mess with
Ones thought, feel, response pattern for all involved. It sounds like youve had a rough road. Legally I'd say make sure you have a good attorney, good to me is someone who listens to you, likes to win and can handle themselves
Well in the courtroom. An organised lawyer who isnt always "getting around to it". I spent seven years fighting custody in court, and in that time I had one fantastic lawyer who sadly left the profession when I was one year in. I had another good one but by that time I was six and a half years in and done. From what I'm reading, your situation has lots of obvious red flags. That's good for your case as long as its documented and your lawyer presents it. That's all the legal esh I can share. In terms of alanon though, I really hope you can keep coming back and get thoroughly aquainted with it, because alcoholism affects everyone it comes into contact with. Your children's mother is definitely an alcoholic and that alone is going to impact them, and has already, even if they don't know why or how. You are in a position to be a bridge of healthful guidance for them, and they will need that. On a final note, I beleive that recovery and legal proceedings are like two streams running adjacent without mixing. I didn't know that then. I'd found my answers I figured the rest of the world must have had them all along, only to discover they had not. Don't know if that fits your situation, but as we say, take what you like and leave the rest. Take good care.