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As I get that part of the recovery process involves a HP of any sort, I'm coming to the conclusion that I need help in this area.
I came to be a religious person relatively later than some (college). I liked the pageantry from a very early age but I didn't really buy into the message for a long time. Anyway, fast forward and in the last 20 years you can say that I've become a mildly religious person. My AH is an extremely religious person. His family is even more religious than he is.
However, a couple of things are muddying the waters. Completely not-connected to me, my MIL's church recently went crazy (really, no other way to put it) and did some extraordinarily cruel things to her in public. Which she did not deserve. To say I have been angry with that group of people is a minor understatement. They disgust me. Second, my loss of respect for AH as a person because of the stupid things that have happened under the influence of alcohol has made me really not want to have anything to do with anything he supposedly values - like his church. He thinks I should pray more. I would only have one prayer - that he would never touch booze again. But since that seems not to be high on the list of Miracles Being Granted, I'm not eager to start spending a whole lot of time praying for that.
Sooooo ... I have issues with religion. And anger.
He said to me, "you want justice for all kinds of things that a) you're not in a position to judge and b) aren't going to happen in our lifetime anyway, so you should let it go". This was a remarkably clear statement from him, I will say. He was right. I want to punish him like crazy for being an alcoholic and putting me and our family through this. I have fantasized about waking up some Sunday morning and downing a few glasses of wine before we head off to church. Like, I'd like him to see what it's like to be embarrassed by someone, to worry that suddenly you have much bigger problems than you ever thought you could possibly have, to start to have to think about ways to "explain away" your spouses behavior and worry that the kids might actually be in danger. etc etc etc.
So then I come to al-anon and boom, there it is: lean on a HP. I really want to, but I don't know how anymore. I wonder if I am just trying to do "too much too soon" with this whole recovery process. Maybe I just need to be angry for awhile.
Like, I know that the serenity prayer is probably the tool that needs to be called upon for now. But what do I do with all this anger? Do I just say, "Self, your anger is actually a childish vestige of an immature worldview in which there is fairness and justice for all. You need to accept that the world is a crazy, random place. Some people get cancer, some people get alcoholism ..." How do I sign myself up for a Buddhist monastery when I have to live in this world that includes him and JackDaniels?
I know that eventually, alcohol will punish him more than I ever could. Knowing that has not stopped me from wishing I could get a couple of punches in.
Thanks for listening to me. I have not been able to get to a F2F meeting or my counselor in recent weeks and this place is a life raft in a sea of Crazy.
-- Edited by Fedora on Thursday 5th of May 2016 02:20:49 AM
Fedora When I arrived at he doors of alanon I felt as you have just explained . I denied the existence of God on one hand and then also stated I was angry with this God and not talking to him. Thank Goodness alanon suggested that I could select a HP of my understanding. I saw the Power in the rooms in changed lives and attitudes and elected program , tools and principles as my HP That worked. Spirituality instead of religion was my savior.
My sponsor helped me to let go of my anger at God as we worked the Steps 4 through 12 . She pointed out (much like your hubby) that I thought that I knew it all and was demanding that God do my will . Life did not work that way. We ( small imperfect human beings) could not see the big picture and could only ask HP for guidance, courage and wisdom as wewalked this road called life. It made sense finally when I arrived at Step 11 and prayed of HP's will and the Power to carry it out. Here it was-- If-- I did HP's will I would be given the power to do so. I may not like my assignment (and I did not) but I could do it and learn and grow in the process.
I did finally return to the religion of my childhood and used the same philosophy found in the rooms Take what you like and leave the rest. I know and accept that many religious people are flawed but that is no reason for me not to participate . It works for me
Fedora - I was raised with organized religion and being a rebellious person, rejected all that when I began imposing my will on the world. It did not work well for me and when I arrived at recovery, I was thoroughly baffled as to what I was going to do next....I felt that my choices, actions, attitudes and evil angry thoughts had set the stage for me to be doomed to hell for all eternity....
What I learned is that the program doesn't care about organized religion, but does suggest a spiritual solution. We are allowed and empowered to define our higher power as we see fit. I've seen folks use the literature, the slogans, the group, a sponsor's guidance, nature, etc. - any power greater than our own will work....it's about realizing the world goes on and on and we are not the center of it, nor can we fix, change, influence, heal everyone and everything. Coming to believe that I was not the judge, jury and execution squad was very freeing for me, and allowed me to become one among many, imperfect in so many ways and trying to be and do better.
So - it's not about who you believe in as much as what you believe about all that is or is not in our world. After time, I have chosen to call and believe my HP is God, as it's just easier for me. I now view religion as organized worship and praise and my spiritual journey as my personal relationship with my HP.
Hope that helps a bit.....
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Hi Fedora, You're not alone. Many come into The Program with Anger issue. The HP issue is also very common. I didn't understand Anger until I got a Sponsor and we sat down and worked the 12 Steps of Recovery. I saw Anger in a new light. I learned what my part was in my Anger. I had a much larger part than I realized. I realized where I had been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and afraid. Anger is really Fear turned from the inside out. Today, I learned that I can deal with Anger and be done with it. If I continue to be angry then I CHOOSE to hold onto it and it becomes a Resentment. Then, I'm the owner of the Resentment, not the other person. One thing that help me was learning that like ourselves everybody is to some degree Spiritually ill, frequently wrong, make mistakes and imperfect human beings. From this attitude it was much easier to let go of resentments.
The HP issues is one I struggled with and still can. I'm not religious. Never was. It was a process for me. I had to Believe to See and then See to Believe. Basically, act as if there was a HP out there. I soon saw results that I couldn't explain. Things changed within me that I always wanted, but never could achieve under my own devices. It started with a belief and then began a faith over time. I work on building that faith one day at a time.
Being hurt by those who are supposed to be Children of God is extremely difficult. What we need to remind ourselves is that Children of God are humans...imperfect humans, just like us.
It happened to me. I was extremely devoted to a church...helped with children's ministry, youth group, Praise and Worship Team. Then, when I learned of my Ex-husband's most recent infidelity (after many infidelities, and many promises to change), I went to our Pastor and asked for advice. He was appalled at my husband's behavior and said he wanted to meet with the two of us. We had a meeting, where he confronted my husband's behavior. We went into counseling, and had an "in-house" separation. Nine months later, another infidelity occurred. It was time for me to leave. The trust was no longer there. Our Pastor told me that I could no longer be involved in the ministries I served. He also took my husband's side on the issue, when I said I was leaving. Many women, I considered friends, told me that I was wrong for leaving him. I left that church. I tried to go to another one, but found myself so angry with God, and His children. I didn't trust anyone.
I was away from the church for about six months. I moved back to my hometown, and started attending with family. It was difficult, because I had been married in that church, and I was concerned about how I would be perceived, because of the divorce. Guess what! My home church family embraced me. I learned so much about mercy, God's love through people....people being Jesus with skin on.
Whatever your beliefs, you are in the right place...here! Religion is one thing. Spirituality, and faith, are another. I truly hope that you find some peace. (((Fedora)))
Thank you Sweetness! Your post reminds me why I'm turned off by organized religion. Each denomination makes their own interpretations and rules then shames people for not following them. Like living with infidelity and dishonesty is okay and acceptable? That's ridiculous! You did the right thing. I had a similar experience with my wife. My Spiritual friends taught me that I no longer had to accept unacceptable behavior. I no longer had to live with betrayal and the insanity that comes with the disease of Alcoholism. I no longer had to settle for less.
This is so true in my mind- Religion is one thing. Spirituality, and faith, are another. I'll live in the Spirituality, and faith, are another category.
It took a long time for me to realize that I did the wrong thing. Some organized religions are better than others. When I returned to my home church, and told my Pastor how I felt, he told me this..."Jesus was more of a Liberal than most Christians would like to admit. He didn't surround himself with perfect people. No one is perfect. Everyone has their own troubles and baggage. While God may not condone divorce, you are His child. He doesn't want you to hurt, and he certainly doesn't want you to be a welcome mat for someone to continually step on". That meant so very much to me. (((Mike B)))
Thank you all for your responses. I can't begin to tell you how affirming it was to read the words "being hurt by those who are supposed to be children of god is very difficult".
Anyway, after reading your responses and chewing on them a bit, this week I've been saying to myself, "self, you are angry at yourself for marrying a drunk, for not recognizing the signs, for being stuck in a hell hole of a situation where all I can do is watch him go down the tubes and wonder how much of our lives he is going to take with him". "Self, you are angry at him for being a drunk, for being stupid". "Self, you are angry at god for never answering the prayer to make him stop drinking" (among many other things); "self you are angry at religious people in your life for talking the talk, but when it really counted, not walking the walk". "Self, you are now angry at EVERYONE for not doing anything you want." "Self, this is not a sustainable way of living and if there is any way to get out of this state, we have got to figure it out."
I decided I could try this much "thinking aloud" in "front of" you all.
1) I did marry into a family where alcoholism is a family trait. However, I didn't know at the time that this is that serious. I knew he was bad at money management, but I didn't know how serious that was either. I did the best I thought I could do at the time. As much as I regret things now, I should not beat myself up for that part.
2) I am angry about him turning into an alcoholic. I'm going to claim this one and not pretend otherwise.
3) No one has ever been cured of alcoholism by their spouse just praying for it to happen. (Oh I assume there are those random lucky folks, but for all intents and purposes, this is not something that the HP is in the business of doing. Kind of like people flying without being in an airplane or without having a parachute. A "natural law" as it were. Once your brain is screwed up by booze, it is screwed up.) Thus, being angry at God for not providing a miracle cure is a slight waste of time and energy.
4) Religious people have issues. That's why they found religion. It is not because they grew wings and became perfect. It's a way to cope. If this is the case, then it is still possible that there is a HP who is not as screwed up as the people who channel it. People are just doing the best they can. Nobody has the total picture, nobody has all the answers. Maybe instead of damning people for not having the answers, I've got to figure out how to give them credit for trying to figure stuff out with what they've got available.
5) I do want people to do my will. On the surface I'm a sensible, pragmatic person. In most situations, you would do well to be on my boat. However, as nearly every day goes by I am realizing that nobody cares that I'm driving said boat, and there might not actually be a rudder underneath said boat. Crappers. Boat may actually sink at some point even tho I think I am Captain SmartyPants. This makes me mad. Although just this evening I am thinking that I just need to pray that I can stay focused on me and my kids. If I find myself getting angry, I've got to redirect to something good, or at least something that is productive. Like, instead of steaming about how there's more booze under our bed tonight, I took a few minutes to tidy up some of the other stuff on the floor, and then changed out the sheets. As much as the urge to throw the booze out was strong, I said to myself, "leave it. you're going to get into this bed and, instead of being like the Princess and the Pea and obsessing over the bottles of vodka under the mattress, you will get yourself some clean sheets and go to bed at a more reasonable hour".
Looking back, I think accepting and forgiving myself for marrying an alcoholic, even if my husband himself denies and still denies, was the turning point in my recovery. I think that was the part when I was no longer denying the sad and hurtful truth. Like you I didn't know & was too naive about alcoholism... I couldn't believe I married one. I told myself it doesn't really matter if my husband nor the people around me believes that my husband is an alcoholic and that his "alcoholism" caused my "insanity", my behavior and reactions. Because I believed that this is my truth I worked on this truth and it did set me free. I focused on me, it's effect on me, and what I can do for me, for my well being. Know that we are all here for each other because we know and understand what we are going thru. (((hugs))) and keep coming back
Fedora, a lot of what you said embodies what I am feeling too. I was not raised religiously and sometimes I really think I would have been better off if I had been raised in a religious family. I always thought it was not right for parents to push their religious beliefs on young children, that we should be able to choose what to believe when we are older. But now I feel a bit like I was ripped off. Because when you need a HP to have faith in - one that you have never understood, you have never believed in, it makes this whole thing very tricky. I WANT to believe. Lately I have been praying a lot at night because I am honestly almost paralyzed in my life by fear. I'm angry right now. Everything is changing. I'm getting older - youth is fleeting. My daughter is possibly an alcoholic already at 17, before she even had a chance to grow up at all. It's triggering my own insecurities about myself and my marriage... My husband is an ACOA which I now understand, can bring personality disorder, drinking, addiction issues, and struggles I never could even have imagined. My youngest will be starting high school next year and he will be introduced to things I wish did not exist. I feel very out of control of my emotions and relying on a HP seems to be the only thing I can do right now. It's something I think we need to trust because it takes that burden off of us. Some people don't need it - like my parents. They seem to be fine without praying, without God or HP. But some of us need it. I know I do. I always try to remember that everyone is fighting a battle we know nothing about - whether it's illness, addiction, losing loved ones, whatever. It doesn't make this any easier, but it helps put it into perspective that I am not alone.
Alanon is a spiritual program and not religious. The principles suggests that each has the responsibility to elect to believe in a Power greater than themselves. Some choose Good Orderly Direction(GOD) some, like myself chose the principles and tools of the program as it is a power greater than ourselves and others recommit to the religion of their childhood . What counts is that we take what we like and leave the rest. The program tools enabled me to accept life on life's terms and that is a true gift.
Thank Goodness alanon suggested that I could select a HP of my understanding. I saw the Power in the rooms in changed lives and attitudes and elected program , tools and principles as my HP That worked. Spirituality instead of religion was my savior.
I realized where I had been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and afraid. Anger is really Fear turned from the inside out. Today, I learned that I can deal with Anger and be done with it. If I continue to be angry then I CHOOSE to hold onto it and it becomes a Resentment. Then, I'm the owner of the Resentment, not the other person. One thing that help me was learning that like ourselves everybody is to some degree Spiritually ill, frequently wrong, make mistakes and imperfect human beings. From this attitude it was much easier to let go of resentments.