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Hi all, today I received an email from my now ex boyfriend. I wanted to share an example of what makes me so confused. Essentially he feels I betrayed him and attacked his character unfairly. That I 'pretended' to go along with his 'habits' all along and suddenly did an about face after my heart attack and decided I could no longer accept his behaviors.
Here is part of his words to me -
I am not going to even attempt to debate addiction with you. Being from Alanon, you know that anything less than 100% sobriety is a user. From there it is only a subjective debate between people as to what constitutes an acceptable level of use. I do know that when I see addiction, it is usually surrounded by very destructive behavior that is fairly evident. It is apparent to me that you have decided my use is on the unacceptable side of this equation. Even though you are saying you "don't KNOW" it is obvious by your actions that you have drawn conclusions.I will let my life achievements stand on there own merit with regard to this.
These words give me pause and they distract me from my fundamental concern. His use of pot, purchasing pot, combined with use of other addictive substances, was affecting 'me'. I truly do NOT know how much he did when I wasnt around. All I know is that it affected me. 'In his message to me today, not once did he specifically refer to his pot smoking or other habits. He did not acknowledge any of MY concerns (the pot smoking, the drinking and driving) but he merely accused me of unfairly judging him and being a hypocrite. And he claims I am making HIM a victim of MY past with my alcoholic husband.
Is he right? Am I so scarred by my 20 year marriage to an alcoholic that I can't have a healthy relationship with anyone who drinks at all? I don't know how to keep the focus on me here. Of course after reading this, I felt 'bad' and started second guessing my decision. What's done is done though, as he wished me well moving forward and said that he would consider some of what I said as he tries to improve upon his own life.
My sponsor is celebrating a family birthday and so I thought I would bring this here for ESH.
Thank you all for 'listening'.
Hugs,
Cyndi
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"There will be an answer. Let it be." ~ The Beatles
When I see all that nonsense he is stating, it just proves to me how much drama he would continue to create in your life if you stay. At no point would things magically change and he becomes this other person. Not only would he have to stop smoking, then he'd have to tackle drinking and pills. His ego has taken over right now and he is trying to justify you leaving by getting off topic. So he is going to act like he doesnt care that much.
I think each day without him you will feel better. Look at the pain he is already causing only 7 months in. I am about to really consider a break up myself because honestly don't I deserve better than this? There are plenty of men out there that arent going to pass out on me or spend money on pot or beer. I think you are lucky to be getting out before it gets worse and you get more entangled.
Thanks for the trust Cyndi this is how and where I also place mine to get proper feedback and ESH. I understand that you made a decision to pull away from the disease and the person who brings it most closely to you other than yourself. Knowing that and that only I would not and did not get into debates and discussions about the disease as I saw it manifested in her behaviors...I just stuck with and to the program. I listened to those who came before me what they knew, what they did and what they found out. Yes she could do what she felt she had to do to defend, justify and--...deny. She was not an expert or even a reliable witness on the disease including use, abuse and addiction so why discuss...I went to those who knew from first hand experience or higher education and practice and didn't get into the subject with her when I was on program...I didn't take the invitation that they speak about in program of not attending every fight I was invited to by her...or anyone for that matter....I was not an expert either so just listen and learn and practice, practice, practice. I wasn't in Al-Anon to prove anything to anyone but myself...that I could come out of the disease sane and serene and as an added bonus alcohol feel and sober myself. My HP used my alcoholic/addict wife to help me get sane and sober HP's gift to me. No need for you to prove anything to anyone but yourself. What do you need to do for Cyndi? ((((hugs))))
Thank you so much- I need this sort of objective input. It is interesting my knee jerk reaction was sadness and guilt and an overwhelming need to apologize. But each time I re-read the entire email, I get a little more 'annoyed'. Because it is painfully obvious that as usual, he is not going to take any accountability here. The most he said was that he 'respects some of the things I mentioned' and that he plans to take some of it under consideration as he improves his life, but that he would never live up to my 'expectations'. And he wishes me 'peace in life' (as if I am some neurotic mess) and he is confident I will become stronger physically and mentally in time. After slamming me for supposedly 'attacking his character', he then gives me a 'God bless you' as if he is the better person in all of this. *sigh* You are right, it is drama I do not need.
__________________
"There will be an answer. Let it be." ~ The Beatles
My husband would always defend his drinking, arguing that he is not an alcoholic. He would use all the drama to get me on his side. I learned not to argue, evade and not to start a conversation that would touch on drinking. After all he is not the one affected by his drinking, I am. His drinking is not my concern but the effect of his drinking on me is what I'm working on. Whatever I do or will do is for my well being. If he will be affected with what I do or will do to protect my own well-being, that is his concern and that he should be the one to do something for himself. I pray that in the process we will both find the serenity in ourselves.
Thank you Jerry and Jocelgo. I needed to 'reason things out' from a rational place, not emotional. This helped me so much. Aerin - thank you as well. Despite the residual 'fall out' from my break up, I am already feeling a sense of relief, and once my 'grief' dissolves, I know I will be on my way to better things.
I am ever grateful for this program!
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"There will be an answer. Let it be." ~ The Beatles
i Found that working the Steps 4 through 10 , and examining my motives helped me to know myself and validate my thoughts and actions. Please know you are not alone and when your sponsor returns you can both work on this.
WELL - everything keeps changing day to day. TODAY I rec'd an email from him where he is deeply apologetic and he claims to finally understandsMY perspective about his pot usage, and being reckless with it, driving with it, always carrying it with him, disregarding my health status and encouraging me to 'take a hit' after my heart attack. NOW he says he was 'blocking' my perspective because in HIS mind, the pot was 'no big deal'. But after seeing my concerns spelled out 'on paper' to him, he claims to NOW finally understand the 'big deal'. And he feels embarrassed and ashamed by his behavior and feels terrible that his actions caused me such discomfort. He said he hopes I believe him that it is not 'who he really is'.
I am not sure he knows who he really is - this is a man in denial still. He gave me lip service but did not indicate any possible action steps of change. (of course I ASSUME he is going to stop with the pot but you know what they say about 'assuming' anything... )
He also says that it's not HIS wish for us to move forward separately, that it is MY wish and he is merely going along with that if that's what I want.
While I appreciate his acknowledgement of my concerns - these are all about the 'details'. The bigger picture is... his compulsion to use different substances is apparent. I don't think he is seeing the big picture and he thinks this is 'just' about the pot. I can' t just say 'oh okay, I"m glad you get it finally, we can now resume our relationship" I don't know if he expects that but I think he is hoping against hope that we can work this out.
My thinking is to ask for a 'break' in all of this for 30 days. I need to work my program and see what will be revealed to me - without the 'noise' and up and down emotions of these back and forth conversations to analyze. But is that giving someone false hope? Do I have a right to say if we are going to make it, you will need to go to AA? I've never felt it my place to put 'conditions' on our relationship. What he does is his business, and my business is to decide what my tolerance level is.
Feeling so torn right now. But I am taking my time with responding to him, and may wait a day or two to pull my thoughts together.
__________________
"There will be an answer. Let it be." ~ The Beatles
I would say that I appreciate his honesty and that I had to work on myself, go deep within to discover what I need , see what vibes I am giving off before I could commit further.
I agree with Betty - if you feel the need to respond, just thank him for his honesty and suggest you need time to work on you. You don't have to set a time frame and you don't have to say any more. In my experience, folks with no program experience AND any type of denial don't understand when we pull away. I've done it also in reverse before recovery - "I wonder what I did wrong"...
With my sons, as difficult as it is, I had to spell it out - as black/white as possible - I can not be around you when you are in an altered state. It makes me uncomfortable and makes me sad. They still didn't fully understand me or why, but they understand the boundary.
I agree with what you are thinking - taking time to process and work on you without the emotional up/downs. You owe yourself that much - I am one who thinks if it's meant to be, it will be....
(((Hugs))) - sorry it's so confusing for you - sounds like it is for him too!
Sometimes, I can truly like someone and enjoy many things about them, but a relationship with them just isn't right for me and where I am at in my life. I am still married so this is relative to just friends and such....I truly am looking at what is best for me, my direction and my life now and it's not always easy to cut ties, but the program has given me the ability to do so with grace and dignity.
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I believe it's "Getting Them Sober" that says - Alcoholics are hard to get rid of. They seem like they're always pulling away, but as soon as we genuinely begin to pull away, their claws are in us, attempting to suck us back in.
And it's so so refreshing to hear them acknowledge our concerns and sound ready to turn things around.
Here's what I've learned through being in Al-Anon and on these boards and watching people go through things like this. The A's who really want to get and stay sober have to work a formal program of recovery - AA or some other well-established program - not just "making decision" or "seeing the light" or "toughing it out" or white-knuckling it or deciding not to go to the bar or what have you. They may have the best intentions in the world, but addiction is too powerful just to be controlled by intentions. They need the tools and the support system.
And what I wish someone had told me, early on, is that only 15-25% of those who enter recovery programs get to longterm sobriety. Addiction is so powerful that the majority of them fail.
If they do achieve it, it is a rough first year, and sometimes second year. They are not very nice to be around and they are relearning basic skills from the ground up. It's as hard to have a relationship with someone in new recovery as it is to have one with someone in full-blown drinking. It is grueling.
If he really wants to get into recovery and work his program, the best thing for everyone is to stand back, make no commitments or promises (which just start the drama and enmeshment going again) and say to yourself that you will revisit the situation in a year or two years. If he's going to make it, he will be a lot healthier and more stable then. If he's not - well, you don't get sucked down into the whirlpool.
What I've actually seen is that A's are frantic to get us back, and promise us the moon and the stars. That was how he was the last time you looked like you were leaving, wasn't he? Coming over and being extra nice. But then he reverted back to his real self, with all the blaming and unpleasantness. Because however much he might intend to be healthy and calm, he doesn't have the tools and the sobriety to do it longterm. "Longterm" meaning for more than a week or two.
So he's in the moon and the stars phase again. It's so tempting to think we're about to "win," isn't it? That we didn't have to go through with that painful plan of leaving.
If your guy is anything like mine, his subconscious is saying, "Can I get her back by going through these motions? Bet I can!"
You can give the answer to his subconscious by your actions.
I agree that the 30-day thing is another way of staying enmeshed. You are under no obligation to lock yourself into any promises. Even though he will desperately try to extract them from you. "I'm going to keep on taking care of myself and making decisions as I see fit" is honest and healthy.
Thank you so much ladies! I responded to his email last night and told him that while I appreciate his apology and acknowledgement of my concerns, I need to continue to 'do Cyndi' for now. I'm a firm believer that what will be will be, and outcomes can't be 'forced'. I think if we each take responsibility for ourselves for now, it can only be a good thing - whether it's for an eventual 'us', or for each of us individually moving forward, time will tell. I just need the space to focus solely on my own issues without worrying about his.
My yard is looking a little 'messy' and I need to clean it up
Hugs,
Cyndi
__________________
"There will be an answer. Let it be." ~ The Beatles
Agree with prior poster.. first they blame you, then turn on the promises. It is very fustrating. I think you are doing the right thing. Someone once said they will continue to "use" whether you are there, not there, arguing or making up. And recovery takes a lot of work. He isnt really ready to give it all up. I can just sense it
Thanks Aerin... it's still a confusing mess and I know the less I engage with him the better I'll be able to think clearly. In all of his defending of each 'substance' , not once has he said he will take action to change / reduce or even address his reliance on various substances. His doc says it's 'ok' to have no more than two cigarettes a day while wearing the patch. His doc has been prescribing a low dose Xanax for 25 years and therefore there is obviously not a problem with that. His DUI was 'just one of those things' after a wedding reception (implying that wedding receptions are a perfectly good reason to drink heavily and drive. And while he acknowledges now why I became concerned about the pot - he has only said he can 'take it or leave it' and 'I hardly even smoke it' - but in all of this he has never indicated an action plan to change. And I of course am not asking him to - that is not the point, it is just to me, one more 'flag'. He is also switching from being angry and defensive, to next email expressing his helplessness and love and concern for me. He has made no 'promises' other than, if *I* need *his* help, to not hesitate to call him and he would be there.
On the surface, his explanations and justifications could be seen as plausible. And yet my gut remains twisted in knots thinking 'what if'... what if we resume our relationship and 6 months from now I am right back 'here'. I did this for 20 years married to an A. Chance after chance, it's going to be better... and instead, the disease progressed of course. Now that I should 'know better', why is it so HARD to 'do better'? I have dated men for a few weeks to 2 months since my divorce and was able to cut things off immediately when I could see a problem. For some reason this one is not so easy.
__________________
"There will be an answer. Let it be." ~ The Beatles
Of course after reading this, I felt 'bad' and started second guessing my decision. What's done is done though, as he wished me well moving forward and said that he would consider some of what I said as he tries to improve upon his own life. 
