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I've been wrestling with the difference between detachment and ignoring. I find it hard to differentiate detachment from ignoring the behaviour. Because of that I feel my detachment techniques are not healthy. What does healthy detachment look and feel like?
Wow - must be something in the air. I was fine "detaching" until he came back, and I realized that I'd in fact been ignoring. So much easier!
Tell us, those with ESH!
For me "Detachment " simply means that I place the focus on myself, treat the other people with courtesy and respect but disconnect emotionally from the outcome of the interaction.
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"Detachment allows us to let go of our obsession with another's behavior and begin to lead happier and more manageable lives, lives with dignity and rights; lives guided by a Power greater than ourselves. We can still love the person without liking the behavior.
Ignoring , to me means that I pretend "nothing is going on", that the other person is not there, as I am still feeling the feelings and anxiety related to what ever is happening.
Hotrod's answer is very helpful to me. I guess I'd say that ignoring is often emotionally intense, sometimes angry. Detaching is genuinely keeping the focus on myself and taking care of my emotions, so that I'm in balance even though I don't like the behavior of the A. Because who would like it? But we don't have to let it ruin our day.
That makes a lot of sense. But, I don't feel hurt when he drinks. It doesn't change his personality. Just makes his quirks quirkier. It just causes me to worry about him and how he's affecting his health. Except for that one night when he did something stupid. That really made me angry.
My experience is that in time, the emotions around the A's drinking get stronger. There is more sorrow at what he's doing to himself, more loneliness because we spend time with them impaired and not wholly present, more anger at the deception and lies that go along with it, more frustration because we're trying so hard and pulling so much weight and yet not making a difference, more pain because alcohol is like a mistress the husband always prefers. And as their alcoholism progresses, all these things happen more and more. It's hard to keep from going down with the ship. That's part of what detachment is - staying afloat ourselves no matter how determined the A is to sink his own ship.
Thanks for the insights. That part of the program is challenging--- detachment- for me anyway, especially as it pertains to my son. Detaching for others besides him is much easier for me, so it looks like I have my work cut out for me! Lol
Detaching for me is working on me, changing me and trusting God to help all others. It's not my job to attach my worth, my joy or my existence to any other person. It's my job to be the best version of me, no matter what else is going on. In the beginning, this meant that I took a ton of walks, read a ton of literature, went to a ton of meetings, went for coffee with program folks, engaged in social activities with good friends I had ignored while worrying and managing my alcoholic and quite a bit of meditation and prayer.
Each time their actions began to enter my mind, I would call my sponsor or a trusted program friend and share about my feelings/concerns/etc. They would share ESH, I would get through it. I always use, "Bless Them, Change Me" to keep my mouth from opening.....or the Serenity Prayer.
As I understood more about Alcoholism is a disease and not a choice, I was blessed with empathy for my qualifiers. I was able to use many Al-Anon tools to treat them with dignity, respect and love. My program work helped me to be able to establish boundaries to keep my sanity/peace even when they were active. My patience, tolerance and joy continued to mature and grow in spite of their path downward.
I was way more lonely before the program than once I embraced it. I accepted the disease, acknowledged my insanity and began to trust the group. I was never alone, as I used my sponsor and program friends (and MIP) to keep me from feeling that way. Help and recovery require action - new and different - wanting change enough to let go of old ideas and ways of acting and reacting. I knew because others told me so that I did not have to be aligned at the bottom of the barrel. I could float to the top with grace and dignity and continue to love them through detachment.
So, for me - I had to act my way into right thinking. I can not think my way into right action. As I tackled and felt better about fellowship/friends/etc, I began to work on balance. There were closets to be cleaned, projects that had been set aside, sleep to be had and so much more - all of which helped me to detach.
There is always hope for peace and joy - no matter what anyone else is doing or is not doing. If my emotions slide based on the actions and attitudes of another, I still will turn back to what worked in the beginning - sponsor, program friend, literature, step, music, etc.
HTH -- (((hugs to all))).
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Only part of detachment for me was coming to understanding of who I was and what I was and being willing to fulfill that first rather than spend my focus on someone or thing I was constantly drawn to and felt threatened if I thought I wouldn't have them or it. With the alcoholic/addict I was obsessed and fearful that my life would not be as valuable if she wasn't in it and then I learned a thought-force given to me by a friend who was given it by a friend. The basis for the thought-force was the same as mine wanting to be connect to my alcoholic/addict out of fear. What my friend gave me was this response she heard another lady tell her absent spouse who was calling and begging to come home. "I love you, I like having you hear...and...I don't need you" I listen to the response, got upset and angry and fled down the street where I had to confront my HP for clarity and then I came to understand...With or without my wife I didn't have to feel needy. Its that way today still. "Free at last, Free at last...Thank God I'm free at last".
I came here this morning, looking for insights about detached love because I've been struggling with a decision for the past two days. So this has all been very good to read. I thank everyone here for sharing their experiences. I think my awareness of alcoholism as a disease has helped me see my daughter's anger and deliberate meanness as a symptom of a disease. I haven't yet hit the place where I don't feel hurt at the rejection and accusations. There is work to do there!
But I'm wondering about this: If my daughter (probably while drinking) said that she doesn't want to pretend to be a family anymore, and she found a substitute mom and doesn't see the point in trying to repair anything, do I continue to contact her periodically to offer my support if she wants it or to say I hope she's well and I'm here if she needs something? (Oddly, shortly after saying this, she posted a nice thing about me to her friends on Facebook.)
For the past two days I wanted to pass on some information to her about therapy through "the alcoholic door," as I've heard the term put. On her first visit to a new psychiatrist, he prescribed an anti-depressant, two anxiety medications, and two drugs that I believe are designed to make her get sick if she drinks alcohol. (So far she's only taken the anti-depressant because she's worried he over-prescribes and five is a lot to take on.)
I've heard people say that taking those anti-alcohol drugs alone, quitting alcohol that way, doesn't fix the problem, and sometimes people turn to other ways to medicate. I'd like her take advantage of AA to learn more. I know I can't force this. I'd sent her information on AA meetings near her work and her home about a month ago, and she wasn't interested but said thank you (at that time).
So for two days, I've been debating on whether it will help or hinder to email her with this information. is that practicing detached love? Do we still offer help with detached love? As someone else here mentioned, it's hard to know what is detached love and what is ignoring. I know I feel better when I'm NOT talking to her because I'm not getting yelled at and sworn at, but I wonder if I should still talk to her, despite that, and come away knowing I tried to help and somehow not being affected by her words. I guess I'm scared to do it!
And now I go back and read what everyone said! It helps to hear the words.
Might it be the simplest for now to just let go of it...practice that, practice giving yourself good stuff...literature, meetings, sponsorship, program friends and first and foremost Higher Power...what do you imagine your Higher Power telling you? I was stunned when I first heard that answer because I just thought HP would say and even demand "hang on to her with all you got" and then one Sunday soon after I took her and her kids to morning service and after I knelt and looked up at the alter heard very very clearly, "What is she doing here"? I knew who was asking that and what the question meant. I didn't do that again...I let it go. Keep coming back ((((hugs))))
Thank you, Jerry F. Yes, I think a part of me keeps thinking my HP would say, you're a mom and this is your responsibility. I need to spend more time in prayer and meditation and yes keeping my thoughts positive with good things. I can't believe how much reinforcement I seem to need with that, with letting my child do this on her own. Your experience had to be so powerful; for me, there is nothing like that kind of assurance from a HP.
Hope4Healing - for my world, when my boys push me away, I tend to follow their lead. The way I figure - they are very bright and know how to google/research as well as I do. If I found something I thought was helpful on the internet, my sponsor reminded me that they had search skills too.
For me with the disease in our lives, letting go meant literally putting distance between them and I. When they are active, they are not pleasant and I have chosen a different path. My boundaries are well defined and they know them well. No has become the expected answer out of my mouth to them as they tend to call only when they want/need something. I wish it was different and at times, it is. But, my program gives me the tools to pause and then decide what makes sense for me, them, my program, my boundaries, etc.
It is not easy to let go of a child. It's painful and you feel like engaging and fixing and ..... but the longer we do that, the longer it takes them to hit a bottom. Every time I provided a soft place for mine to land, they did not learn what they lesson was and it just prolonged the pain for us all. They now clearly are living with the consequences of their life choices and since I was able to find recovery when I did, they blame me less than before.
HP plays a huge part in everything I do. When I stop and truly listen, he has confirmed I did my job as a parent. I taught them well, I raised them right. They are now adults and will either make good or bad decisions, but it's not on you.
Work your program, trust your sponsor and focus on you. Practice, practice, practice - one day at a time!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Iamhere, it means so much to hear from people facing the same thing. Yes, I think I'm trying to prevent my daughter from hitting bottom. And maybe that's the only way people decide to change their lives. Your words feel so true to me, and I feel hope in the idea that our own recovery might help them blame less, which I hope would lead to taking responsibility! I need to focus on working the program; my mind is too much on what I'm not doing for my daughter. Practice, practice. Yes. And talk to my HP. I feel most at peace when I do that. Thank you for all your kindness and generous support. It helps so much. *hugs*
That is a really good question and detaching at first can feel like just ignoring the problem. For me it was working out what is my business and what is not. What others do, everyone over the age of 18 is their own business and that stops me, judging them, directing them, offering them advice, chastising them, controlling them in any way and accepting that others can choose to live any way they want. It tells me to focus on me. I dont have all the answers or know the perfect way to live so I have no right really imposing my way onto others.
So if you live with an alcoholic it allows us to butt out of their choices. If they choose to drink then thats their own choice and the consequences are fully theirs too. So it means no fixing, cleaning up, sorting, helping etc. Keep the focus on our own lives.
We dont put up with unacceptable behaviour though. So if something is going on we find intolerable then we need boundaries. That doesnt mean we direct or control an other person or judge them. We may need to make changes though as long as the motive is improving our own lives. I asked my drinking son to leave the home because his behaviour was intolerable, however, I learned through detaching with love that I had the right to do this but still no right to judge him or chastise him or control him so really detaching is giving soemone the freedom to make their own mistakes but not at the expense of my life.
"detaching is giving soemone the freedom to make their own mistakes but not at the expense of my life."
el-cee I love this simple definition
For me detachment means taking the "ME!" out of the story I was telling about my alcoholic. I kept thinking about how much his actions affected me and made my life hard, how hurt I was. I realized though that much of that suffering was optional, and a shifted mindset helped me see his actions as just what they were on the surface - his decisions, his disease. They were not my problems to fix. When I detached I was freed from the burden of worrying about his drinking and the consequences of his choices. I still carry some grief for what I had hoped my marriage could have been and fear for the future but with detachment I can be more focused on the present moment in my life instead of whatever my AH is doing or not doing or what a victim i let myself become.
When I began this Journey I had the write up of "Detachment" Everywhere... It Hung on Every Mirror of My House, the Dash of My Truck, I made sure to have one in Every Room, So if I was Spiraling out of Control with My A's... I Could Easily Find it and Read it... and Who Knows... Maybe they would To since I Left it Out in the Open ;)
Detach "With Love" I Struggled so Hard at, it was Easier to Just be Pissed, Angry, and Make them feel Less then... But Truly it wasn't, it was Killing me from the Inside Out... That is Not the Legacy I wanted to leave behind for Any of My A's...
Now when I Detach with Love, I Allow them to be Accountable... and Many Times when they would Spew their Ick on Me, I would sit there and Either Take it... Or Spew Back.. "Don't Take it Personal Even if It Feels that Way!" I have Now Learned that when I am their Target I Can Do MANY Things... I Can Say things Like.. "Well I'm Sorry you Feel that way.. Hope things Work Out for You!" Or "We all have Choices, and those are Yours not Mine" Or Another Al-Anon Friend Said, "Vote with your Feet" I Don't have to be their Punching bag, I Can Easily Say, "I'm Done here" and Leave the Room... We learn New behaviors...
I Never Thought I Would be able to "Detach" with Love from My Son and His bad Choices, Not that they are Many, but they are indeed there... But When I Realized that Me Standing Over Him like an Iron Bull Was Only Going to Hurt his Future and Mine, I Loosened the Reins and Gave him the Lead... I have Decided I Can't Raise a Leader by Suffocating him with My "You Should, You Would, You Could because I'm All Mighty and Know what's Best for you!" Because if I'm Honest with Myself, He is the Only one that Truly Knows what's best for him, I Can Be his Cheering Section when things Go Well, and I Can Be His Listening Ear When things Don't... But He has to Choose his Next Step... and that's my Detach with Love... By Allowing him to be Him...
I have Moments where I think I Should Jump in... Then I Remind Myself... "I Can't Control it, I didn't Cause it, And Can't Cure it!" I will Always be His Mother... and He is Always My Son... and Now I have to accept that he isn't My Baby boy, he is My Adult Son... In My Heart My Baby, but in Reality My Adult Son...
and like "Iamhere" said, As Adults, they too can Find & Search out their own Help... Now if My Son came to me and ASK? Absolutely I would Point him in the Direction of AA/Al-Anon/NA what Ever it May be... but if He has Not Ask, I have Learned to Zip my Lips...
and For me, Ignoring them is WAY Harder and Only Cause me Hard ache... I don't care to have the Negative Energy I Feel when I Ignore someone and Besides I Just Find it against My Personal Character... I want More then that... But I'm Picky so I Keep Coming Back...
Thanks for the Share... Great ISH On this Thread ;)
It's so helpful to hear people's stories and insights into learning to detach with love. I find it especially hard to balance the feeling of responsibility to our kids and letting them possibly hit bottom. I'm more peaceful without my daughter's alcoholic anger in my life, but I keep feeling intervention might help. Yet... so many people with much more experience are showing me that intervention probably won't help. That these adult children have to do this on their own for success (or hoped-for success). (We've only been at this confrontational phase for two months.)
These words someone said in this thread, "detaching is giving someone the freedom to make their own mistakes but not at the expense of my life," seem wise for all relationships we face in life.
I've always been a quiet person and probably didn't push my kids much, but regardless, I think kids feel/know what their parents expect in life. And the same would apply to marriages or other family member relationships. That makes room for guilt and blame, even if we don't want to instill that. But being happy in our own lives, despite all that is around us, presents a good example, something to strive for perhaps? And keeps us healthy?
My thanks to everyone who shared their experiences here. It helps immensely!
oh yes.. this is a new one for me too! But like Jozie said.. ignoring just makes me look like some angry sullen person (which ruins MY day) and personally I think it gives him more of excuse to drink (like, screw her, if shes gonna bitch I may as well continue) So far staying calm seems to help me the most. I think he is a bit confused as to my sudden shift in behavior lol
If he keeps replasing its not my fault. So im not going to nag.. just go about my business. I think thats the right concept!
This was very timely and helpful - thank you for the topic and all of those who have replied thus far. I continue to struggle with this, and find myself "ignoring" which is better than what i used to do, but not what I probably should do, since I have a "holier than thou" attitude when I do so. It's very hard!
The last few days, since my AH stopped drinking, I have been busying my self in chores upstairs when he gets home. Then I lay in bed. He comes up and holds me and I feel angry. Not detachment, but ignoring him. I need to work on this too. I find myself texting nice things, but in the face to face moments, I'm clueless..
There was so much useful information in this thread. Thank you to everyone for your insights. "Letting go of the obsession of the other person's behavior" is especially me. I've used the "Alcohol is your mistress, which you prefer over me" statement with him in the past. "Bless them. Change me" is going to be my new shortened serenity prayer in times when I need to keep my mouth shut. "I can't control it. I didn't cause it. I can't cure it" needs to be posted on the inside of my eyelids so I can't forget it.
This topic is probably the crux of the entire last year I have spent in Al-Anon. Detaching for those of us who love an alcoholic is the most foreign concept, and yet, if we want to feel better we have to figure it out for ourselves. At first I had to "ignore". Kind of fake it till you make it. It felt like I was betraying myself to remain silent to what he was doing to himself and our home. But as time goes by it feels less like betraying myself and more like protecting myself. I now see with a little itty bit of perspective, that detaching is really withholding my judgement and my scorn rather than withholding my favor. I can be polite, and I can be merciful and allow him to make his own mistakes and bear the consequences of his decisions.
If there is one thing I know for sure after one year in Al-Anon it is this. If I leave, he will probably drink. If I stay, he will probably drink. If I speak out he will probably drink. If I stay quiet, he will probably drink. If I include him, he will probably drink. If I go it alone, he will probably drink. He is an alcoholic and that is what alcoholics do. They drink, until its gone or they pass out. Even after passing out, when they wake up they will probably drink some more. I didn't cause it, I can't control and I cannot cure it.
But, I can choose for myself what my days will be like. I can decide if I will suffer in anguish over the stinky situation, or I can decide to do something for myself to feel better. I can enjoy the quiet and peace of the passed out times. I can go for a walk or work in my craft room when he is actively drinking. I can go out with friends or go to a meeting. I have nothing to feel guilty about, and if something is going to happen to him, it is his issue not mine.
I am telling myself all these things because I live with an active alcoholic and last night was bad. I am trying not to worry about what I will find when I arrive home this evening!! Let it go....let it go...
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Bethany
"Folks are usually about as happy as they make their minds up to be." Abe Lincoln
Hugs Bethany, I hope this evening is more peaceful for you!!
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
My A has been on a bender of over a week and I just read my post from 6 days ago and it is just as timely for me to say to myself today as it was then. I may print it out and paste it to my computer, my mirror, and maybe my FOREHEAD!! :) Thank you for this thread. Going back and reading it again today reminds me that I am not alone and living with an alcoholic is very difficult.
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Bethany
"Folks are usually about as happy as they make their minds up to be." Abe Lincoln
