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I told AH last week that he had till end of day Friday to set up some kind of treatment plan or I was going to leave (5 months pregnant with out two year old in tow). I needed some kind of commitment from him, no more promises to go to a meeting, or plans to call a counselor. He's been sick for 10+ years and only trying to "quit" on his own since Thanksgiving. I know this will be a long road. Of course the "will power" thing isn't not working and the more time that passes the more he is slipping back into his full time drinking.
So Friday afternoon came, he still hadn't found a meeting or called about any treatment places or counselors. I left. I went to my mother-in-law's house with about 3 days worth of clothes and things. Needless to say, its been a horrible weekend emotionally for me. My AH is now deciding to be stubborn and not make a plan for help to spite me. He's not going to live by my demands and I am the one at fault for all of this (according to his disease).
I want to go home so bad. It's hard living out of a suitcase, especially with a little one. I am fortunate to have a ton of support from his family (my family is all out of state)but I can't help but think that I made a mistake. AH told me on the phone yesterday that he has no plans to call any places, so I went by the house to get more clothes and things to carry us for a longer stay away from home. While I was there, he refused to turn the TV off or even look at me. I am upset that I tried so hard to engage him in conversation...I left feeling like a fool because I stood in front of him, crying and asking him to please talk to me and he was completely unmoved (at least on the outside). The only thing he did say was that this was all my doing, so he's not the one that needs to fix it.
I know that if I just give in and go home, nothing will be better, it might actually be worse because I have shown how weak I am and that all he has to do it wait it out and I will come crawling back. I feel so lost and down right now. I really feel like I should have just stayed and continued to practice detaching. I am totally ready to stand by him, love and support him, all I wanted was a commitment from him that he would at least try to work on this addiction and all the things that come with it. What if he never does it? Did I just leave my husband for good? Did that seriously just happen?
(((CoopsMom))) Alanon suggests that we are indeed powerless over people and that anything we do to manipulate a situation will back fire. I see your hubby responding in the same fashion my husband did when he thought he was being manipulated
I would examine my motives as to when I drew the boundary and stated that unless "you go for treatment, I will leave and then do so.
If you discover that you were trying to have him react and go for treatment, then you could own your part in the confusion and renegotiate your position.
Meetings, sponsor, the Steps all will help at this time
Hi coopsmom.
I think the danger with ultimatums like these are, his focus will be on you now while yours remains on him. Firstly, of course, he is likely to keep right on insisting that this is 'all your doing" because he knows (probably rightly) that it will wear on your resolve and make you question yourself. Its a horrible feeling and I am sending you hugs.
I know I'm making a lot of assumptions but, it sounds like a pretty familiar dance to me. Secondly, if he DOES give in to your ultimatum and seek recovery, there's a very good chance he'll cling tight to the idea that 'he's only doing it for you" which in my experience resulted in my partner demanding I bend over backwards and turn myself inside out to "support" his recovery and then, when he decided that, well, dash it, he just didn't FEEL like being sober anymore, suddenly all he was interested in doing was starting fights and baiting me into snapping so he could drink and blame me for it.
These are some of the reasons we say, ultimatums don't work in the long term usually, and boundaries are about US and not THEM.
Having said that, you've done a good thing for yourself by walking away from the situation as you said you would, and that's good self care which you deserve. Is it possible that if you remove the focus from your husband and bring it back to yourself and your own recovery, you might be able to turn this change of circumstances into an opportunity for yourself? Time and space away from the A is a marvelous way to gain some perspective about what WE want and what we are prepared to live with in future. I'd highly suggest letting go of projecting about what he may or may not do, or what he may or may not think, and instead dive head first into your own program, and it just might become a wonderful turning point for you no matter what he does!!
Lots of hugs and congratulations on making a brave move.
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
LinSC-He just wouldn't. I could ask him to leave and he would just flat-out say "no". My only option if I wanted physical separation was to leave myself.
Thank you HotRod and MissMeliss for your ESH. It's amazing the wisdom you have and the understanding of this beast. The "advice" that non-al-anon family and friends give (the ones that know what I am going though, which are very few) is so much different. Al-Anon has taught me that these changes are mine to make and only I can decide when and what is right for me... but sometimes its hard to know the difference between doing it for me and doing it in hopes that I will get the reaction I am looking for.
You're both right, it was an ultimatum. I was hoping it would be temporary and it would work just like magic...poof! I know better than that! Once I separated myself and was able to see what was happening, I instantly started to regret it. It wasn't the right thing to do, I just had gotten to that "I can't take it anymore" stage and I reacted.
Ok, so I made a few mistakes. The question is, what do I do now? I like what Betty said about 'renegotiating my position'. I guess I will take some more time to think about what that means to me. I have this fear of looking foolish and letting him win...I need to let that stuff go. The non-al-anon advice is "hold your ground"...but that doesn't jive with what I've been learning and practicing. Ahhh this is stressful.
This is stressful and please remember we are dealing with a chronic 3 fold disease that affects, the mind, body and spirit-of not only the drinker but the entire family .
Forcing solutions does not work when interacting with this disease. It simply adds more fuel to the fire. the ODAT says that we should not add fuel to a fire that can and will consume us both. I left my hubby once and he did not even know I was gone for 2 days. That is the disease Take time pray about it and try to- let go and let god. In my thoughts and prayers
Wow I remember when I made ultimatums too and I wasn't ready for the consequences. In my mind my AH at the time would do anything possible to get me back, which meant get help and seek recovery. What really happened was he would get mad have an excuse to drink more and I would weaken and show him he did hold all my power and control. It always made things worse, that is why after attending and working my al-anon recovery I learned the difference between boundaries and ultimatums and I stuck to what I said and was ready for the consequences then. I was keeping myself emotionally safe and not trying to force my will on a unwilling partner any longer. This is a hard lesson learned, but you can get stronger and learn a lot through this experience. The book "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews helped me a lot and "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie enlightened me about myself as well. Sending you love and support on your journey!
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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
Hi my partner went into AA to keep me he was in and out over 5 years. His last attempt last 2 years but he never did the steps. I have boundaries and he broke one we have been serape rated now 18 months it's been hard. However he is getting worse but I only want him sober today if it is what he wants because doing it for anyone else is a waste of time. First hurdle they fall the motivation needs to come from within themselves. Regarding me I got a slonsor I am working the steps this space has given me time to get a relationship with myself and hp. I am somuch more emotionally healthy my kids are happier. I can not say I will never take him back that's up to hp. But for me I want a happy healthy home. I hope one day he can be part of it but I am only in charge of my recovery. Big hugs Tracy xxx
This experience is useful (though painful) because it clarifies where he is in his thinking. The unfortunate part about it is that now he is digging his heels in to get you to "allow" him to continue the old ways. Which you have already made clear are unbearable to you.
The reason Al-Anon advises us not to make any big decisions for the first six months is that we often are unclear about what we want to happen (other than the madness to stop), and we often haven't prepared enough for the consequences when they insist on continuing the madness. It takes time to get it set up so we can manage in our new life - we are often tempted to go back because we miss them, because we have unrealistic hopes about things changing, because they are our addiction, and last but not least because we haven't got our new support systems fully set up yet. It sounds as if this last one is a situation for you.
Maybe this is the time to think it out for yourself: What would it look like to go forward without dragging the dead weight that is the alcoholic around your neck? Where would you live, where would the money come from, who do you have in your support system already, how could you get extra support? Which friends and relatives will pitch in, what extra help can you pay for? Think it all out and decide what actions would need to happen. Then you can think about whether those are your next steps or whether you need a different direction. A lawyer might be a good source of advice just for an hour or so, for instance about the house if you own it jointly. In many situations you could probably get him out of the house, but you'd need to know the legal ins and outs.
I've parented a baby by myself - it's hard, no doubt about it. The only thing harder than doing that is parenting one with an alcoholic.
Before Al-anon, those ultimatums would only bring more despair, anger and self-pity. Truly, no one can make the alcoholic stop drinking except himself. Coming to Al-anon made me understand more about the nature of alcoholism and taught me an alternative to living life with an alcoholic. Ultimatums must be carried out if given, halt if unsure. Instead of ultimatums I gave myself boundaries. My AH till now tries to manipulate all and any situation to make me "allow" him to drink. But I keep my boundaries, if my AH decides to drink and go home in the wee hours of the morning he better not sleep in our bedroom as it will only bring up an ugly fight which I would not like to happen again. I told my AH that I could not promise him what my behavior will be like whenever he drinks, just the same that he could not control his behavior when he drinks. I reiterated to him that I will not tell him to drink or not to drink, that decision is his to make so he just better stop asking my permission. When he tells me that I am controlling him and is not giving him freedom to live the life he enjoys, I told him that we both suffer because the life I enjoy is the opposite of his enjoyment. He's happy when he drinks & that's misery to me, he's miserable without the drink & I'm happy when he doesn't. I told him that I am not asking him to make a sacrifice for me in the same way that he should not ask me to make a sacrifice for him. I believe that genuine sacrifice is one that will be for the good of the other. The decision and choice is ours to make. I told him that I can no longer make a promise that it will still be "till death do us part" for I will not tolerate abuse and I no longer want to go thru the roller coaster ride I've been thru before. All these talk is done when he is sober and in serene atmosphere. For now I continue with life focusing on myself, I now live "with or without him". Of course it's better with him but I do my best not to despair without him. He still nags me with asking permission to have a drink but I keep my stand, it will not be my decision. Standing firm is not easy, I pray and ask God for guidance and for His will. Al-anon has truly helped me cope up. The journey is very long and narrow, it's takes a lot of courage to make a change. Be strong, have faith!
sending you a big hug. Before I came to Al Anon I threatened to leave several times and I even packed bags and stormed out the door only to come back. Al Anon and counselling helped me to realize that if I wanted to leave I had to leave for me. Not leave to try to change him. I fretted over the shoulds.......should I leave? Am I putting up with too much? When is enough enough? My counsellor told me that I would know when I had had enough and it was time. I would know within myself and I would do it. And I believe that to be true. I've stopped the threats. I've been working very hard to focus on me and my needs and not his drinking. What do I need in this situation? WHat do I need in this moment? And where can I get it (usually not from him)?
I've felt the same way you have going back after threatening to leave. Seeing how much it reinforced his position. Your description of standing in front of him crying and begging and him not responding is a very familiar image to me. I feel for you. I've been there. Something that my face to face al anon meetings helped me realize was that his drinking has nothing to do with me. And he can never stop drinking for me. That's just crap you see in movies but in reality my AH can only stop drinking for himself. WHen he sees it for himself...if he ever does. And no one else can bring him to that realization. Pitting his love for me or his family against his disease only causes me pain. The alcohol always wins. That is how I envision that I am powerless over alcohol (the first step). As infuriating as it was to come to that realization that a can of beer can have more power than me it was also a relief. It helped me stop hurting myself. I stopped measuring how much he loved me and ultimately how much I was worth by how much he drank. Now I kind of look at it the other way. I know how very much my AH loves me and his daughter. There is no doubt about that love. Yet he can't stop for me. That is how powerful his disease is. That's how powerless I am over it. I rely on limits and boundaries to help with my life being better. My household is calmer because I have changed. We no longer have arguments when he is drunk because I refuse to argue. We no longer spend time together when he is drinking because it just deteriorates for us. I get out in the world without him when he can't join me. There is a whole world out there to help support and love me when he can't. My mom, my friends, my coworkers this board.
I can't say thank you enough to everyone. This board is amazing. Your comments make me think, make me cry, ease my mind and help reduce the feeling of isolation. I wish I could hug every one of you and get running eye makeup all over your shoulder. :)
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
That is the disease 
