The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
So A's brother (the one he lives with)'s dog had puppies, 12 of them, and they were due to be collected by their respective new parents today, and daughter and still hadn't been to see the little fluff balls.
So yesterday he caught trains and buses to come here (it takes him 2 hours) so that i could drive with him back to his place...I won't do the drive by myself because I'm a huge sook and they're doing all kinds of roadworks all the way there and the detours with all of that traffic are just brain-melting (you sort of have to go via the moon).
Anyway we did this just so that daughter and i could roll around in adorable fluffy tails and wet noses and have our shoes and watches chewed and our legs peed on for an hour or so. lol.
And then we went home.
So the last few times i have seen him have been the same; he travelled a long way to keep me company when i was chaperoning daughter's night time amusement park party, then went home again...visited a few weeks ago, hung out for the afternoon and home again...
It's hard to imagine it's the same guy. He doesn't ask for anything, doesn't try to stay, no heavy conversations, he seems to be just doing exactly what I had said I wanted....living apart and making an effort to do things together. It's very hard to get used to and part of me feels insecure that he isn't asking to move in together, trying to lock me into plans, or in any way trying to re-assert himself into my life. Ha. Ridiculous.
I know that the more time he spends away, without me to enable him, the more he becomes someone I would want to live with and, someone i would regret losing.
I suppose it's all good isn't it? These are all good things?
I do miss him, a lot today.
Oh well.
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
Missmeliss - These all sound like very good things to me! I think your feelings of uncertainty re him respecting your boundaries are totally normal - as I'm assuming you are not used to someone doing so. I'm so glad things are going well for you (overall), and I imagine you will grow accustomed to liking your A's respectful behavior soon. All my best -
I'm glad you had such a fun day. Those puppies sound adorable.
You write "I know that the more time he spends away, without me to enable him, the more he becomes someone I would want to live with..."
My experience is that the more time I spent apart from my qualifier, the more he seemed like someone I would want to live with. "Image management" is much easier when you're not with the person round the clock, dealing with the moods and weirdnesses we all get into, but A's most of all.
I've gone back to people I shouldn't have more times than I care to admit.
My own A (now ex-AH) is perfectly charming and lovely now that we're divorced. I don't think he's said a cross or unkind word to me in all the years since. No mind games, no outrageous manipulation, hardly any visible drunkenness. This is the same person I saw before we moved in together. But when I was around him 24/7, I saw what really goes on. It's the same guy. Now I know that that same guy is still in there, even though he's hidden again. If I were to move in again, the same chaos, pain, and horror would result.
What I know now is that without working a formal program of recovery, A's will always be who they were all through their drinking career. They don't spontaneously recover. It's not helpful to enable them, but our enabling them did not make them chaotic alcoholics. Similarly our stopping enabling them will not make them stop being chaotic alcoholics.
I say this with all kinds of caution and gentleness, I hope, Mel, but I am reminded a bit of your dealings with another family member here ... the other one you thought might have come out of his insanity ... but not.
Hope you can keep yourself safe. You totally rock!
I too am happy that you you and your daughter had such a wonderful day. Living one day at a time, focused on yourself, works well. Enjoy it one day at a time. :)
((((mel))))) I really enjoyed hearing about the puppies. OMG twelve!! How lucky to have them all going to homes. As far as your abf, it's amazing how things can improve with people you can't live with when a little space is created between you. I speculated like this about an old abf with a sponsor. She said to me, "TT, anyone can be good for an hour!" I still laugh about this because it's so true. You'll know over time where you're serenity lies and what you want to do. Glad you had great day today. TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
MissMell.....I love puppies - for me, puppies & babies are the two best things in the world! Not for keeps - BTDT (Been There & Done That) - but for a day/afternoon/moment.
I tend to try not to analyze who is doing what and why. It's counter-productive for my wild brain and I typically spend mental energy that takes me away from 'my zone' of the moment and living one day at a time.
I do believe people can change and I do believe people do change. The question I often ponder is does the change align with the direction I am going? That's an answer only HP knows - I certainly don't. I do not shut anyone out of my life, I just enforce my boundaries as needed. I have to keep myself grounded in what's real, right now - not what might be or what was it like.
My active son called this morning and we talked for almost an hour. He wanted a home cooked meal and sounded good. He was to be here @ dinner time. Well...dinner time came and went and he was a no show. I called, he was sleeping and I just said I guess we will see you another day. I was disappointed and was able to tell him this without harping on him, his disease, his 'no-show', etc. I just said that I was disappointed and would get over it.
So, as I sat here trying to go about my evening, and processing 'this', it dawned on me that we had a lovely conversation this morning, for almost an hour. That has not happened in ... I can't tell you how long. So - I have a choice - do I dwell on what's good about this day and my son? Or do I dwell on him blowing off the dinner that I cooked and we thoroughly enjoyed without him? Because of this program, I chose to focus on what's good and let go of the rest. Why would I want to sit here miserable over something that is already in the past and beyond my control?
Breathe, and just stay in the present and what comes next will be as it's supposed to be. When I choose recovery and use my tools and HP, I can handle anything that comes my way. You can too! (((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thanks all.
You know, I'm not out to make any changes, life is working well and I love the freedom from chaos not living with another adult affords me. I was really just ruminating on the changes in our relationship now that we don't co-habit, and the bittersweet paradox of how much more "livable" he seems now that we don't live together. He sure makes a lot more effort and that's just plain nice.
I'm not so arrogant as to think my living with and/or enabling has changed an entire personality. I do think the experiences of adjusting to life apart have been positive for both of us and I'm glad of it.
IAH, I'm glad you were able to appreciate the conversation from earlier in the day, and to thoroughly enjoy the meal anyway, yay for you
__________________
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
Thanks MissMel.......I 'got there' after I spent some time looking for the lesson to be learned. I can't believe it, but have now lost another friend to cancer.....
This has just not been my year relative to loss but what a lesson about the power of life on life's terms and living in the now.
I'm only 53. I knew there would come a point in life where there would be loss. I guess I didn't expect it 'now' - but what do I know! My first journey through this stage - right?
I am glad that you are finding the adjustment to life apart positive. That's how I feel about my boys. While we had extreme difficulties together, it's nice to be able to see them in a different light - living their life, fending for themselves, making mistakes, having success, etc. When we were all in one home, the tension from the disease and my own insanity kept me from seeing and celebrating who they truly are - well beyond their disease and warts!
Have a great day/evening (you know I struggle with the time zones.....) (((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Ive been off and on with the message board because of school and coming back on to see you make such progress.
Have you ever noticed how we act differently with different people, another person can sometimes bring out the best and some bring out the worst.
I know you have done the work and know you will understand what I say . That we have our part in the dynamics that go on between a non drinking spouse and the addict. Its difficult to change the dynamics an habits of so many years. Even with the best therapists. I have also seen so many men become mice when they were such bully monsters with their spouses. Because in the marriage that partner took all their abuse. Those type of people are manipulators and we have to be very careful.
I am glad your x partner is working it out for the sake of your child as you will always be connected in that way.
I know my x husband (since has passed from the addiction) loved me in his way, but I also know that marriage was not for him. He felt trapped in it.
Do what is best for you, who says that married people have to live in the same house. I say that if people thought outside the box and were living in a unconventional way , that may be the answer for them.
You keep living it one day at a time and remember to always self care...the answers will come.
I don't really know why, but this discussion has been very moving and important to me. I am grieving the end of a 43-year marriage, and am slowly, with the help of Al Anon, beginning to see my part in the insanity. I yearn to "be friends" with X, but I do know that unless he acknowledges his disease, he will continue to be unpredictable. Since he was able to quit drinking for 20-some years and insisted that I was projecting (I told him I was more dismayed by his admission of having had "a couple of beers" than his "I've fallen in love with another woman",) I find myself back-sliding into denial more often than I'd like.
He's been out of town for a couple of weeks, and it's been wonderful...but I find myself fantasizing that we can actually be friends. On a good day, I can see that it's this thinking that kept me in a loveless marriage; thinking it was a good marriage...On a bad day, I think that "if only" I had been able to use the tools I now have, he would have stayed. Insanity for sure. I didn't cause it, can't cure it, can't control it. And even if he is a dry drunk, he is an alcoholic. But I can't even judge that. Even if he is not an alcoholic, there is some serious disfunction there that sucked us both in, and we are both better off now that he's left.
Thanks for letting me ramble. Our 44th anniversary is coming up in a week, and I'm taking it harder than I expected.
Today I will be grateful for my new, independent life.
Hugs to u Rosemeyer. im grieving the end of my 25 yr marriage. i have found alot of support through Alanon and the reading material. Thee are also fine books that are off program that help concening loss [of marriage, spouse,etc] I tried to absorb anything that seemed to help. Then I forgave myself and him. Then I let myself feel[cry,show anger etc] . there are lots of us out there. Finally turn to your higher power as u see fit.
I was married to the addict for 25 years, we separated and he passed away 2 1/2 years ago, we were separated for 5 years when that happened, but remained friends as long as I kept my boundaries, no talking to me on the phone if he was drunk and no appearing drunk. To see him in the hospital all his organs shut down and on a ventilator for 60 days will stay in my mind till the day I die. I know its sad when a relationship is over when we as the spouses of substance abusers have put so much into it , have suffered the abuse of the addiction. Have our dreams shattered and then to see them die from their addiction. Sometimes its surreal. I saw him awake a few times but he couldn't speak, but tears rolling down his cheeks told me everything. I knew he was sorry and he had regrets for his life, we were holding hands and I knew in that moment, that our work together was over for this lifetime.
I don't speak too much about it, because its too sad and the emotion of it devastates me, that a 58 year old, intelligent , special , handsome man succumbed to his addiction. Boy did he give me a run for my money. Its a choice that he made and only he knows at the hour of his death what that meant. I know he was very abused as a child, he did not grow up with his Mother, his Father an alcoholic , he left home at an early age and educated himself and there were many lean days.
Women and men who are in a relationship with an addict. Do not hold on too tight. Don't suffer over it ending. Let go and let them travel their path for you cannot save them. Even when you live together or your married, they cannot fufill your requests and demands. Our dreams for them, may not be their dream, they are living it as best as they can with much more cargo on their backs. Get out of their way. What happened to my AH, can happen to anyone who is addicted. That is the reality of this alcoholism or any substance abuse for that matter. I see it now from a different perspective because he is gone. So much on my part that I could have done better. I just think they cannot handle the responsibility that marriage or life brings, because of this compulsion that follows them constantly, that even sometimes treatment cannot halt. I talk to him out loud, I hope he hears my amends. There were times I could have been kinder, but I did the best I could with what I knew. Now at his death I know more, I know he hears me. For as much as he caused me suffering , I remember the joy. My part in it is that I chose him as my husband, my responsibility, my choice ..and we met for awhile and he taught me many lessons..nothing is wasted.
